Has Led Zeppelin Dated Poorly?

Just listened to "The Rain Song" this morning. Still holds up. Will we say the same about, say, Beyonce or Beck or the Pussycat Dolls or Linkin Park in thirty years?

Fuckin' doubt it.

led zep sound super 70s. but who cares? bach sounds super 17th century. and down w/the whole notion of sacred cows.

Fair point, that.

yeah, they went out with Paris Hilton!

No

Just listened to "The Rain Song" this morning. Still holds up. Will we say the same about, say, Beyonce or Beck or the Pussycat Dolls or Linkin Park in thirty years?

I think we'll be saying it about Beck but not the others.

Zep still pretty consistently sounds awesome to me, maybe even moreso as I get older and have more and more musical interests beyond classic rock. The production from their era has dated better than most rock production since.

Why do you think their production has dated better than most (examples explanation, please, I'm curious)?

It's hard not to describe their production without saying something really obvious or redundant like "the drums sound like John Bonham" or "the guitars sound like Jimmy Page," things that other people have spent the last 30 years trying and failing to emulate. But it still punches through FM frequencies better and sounds more viscerally kickass than almost any radio rock that came after, which is what I was measuring it against in that statement.

Although it's kind of kicking a dead horse to say anything older sounds better than 80's gated snares or 90's/00's super-compressed guitars.

i would agree LZ production has "dated better", which to me just means that it seems more of a factor in modern rock productions than, say, the Guess Who's production or Cream's production or whoever. LZ made their records sound bigger than just the sound of 4 guys playing blues rock. Like, "when the levee breaks" is a big, ultra-compressed, numb production, and very drum heavy -- not conceptually dissimilar to any number of harder rock productions you hear now. Like, the production Nevermind is pretty much the same concept, just w/90s technology -- huge sound, huge drums, sound is *everywhere* (and also similarly chorus'd, panned out over the entire mix).

The question is did the music world need LZ to come up w/this, or would it have happened anyway? Who knows!

I'm surprised by how much Bonham's drums don't sound like the heavens crashing down anymore

you need your ears testing. or a new set of speakers.

No

-- chaki, Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:16 AM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

thats agreeing w/ chaki not disagreeing w/ thomas

It might've happened w/out Zep, Dominique, but it would've happened differently. There are a lot of hallmarks of heavy rock production/playing that are very specifically descended from them.

well i agree - and not least because a lot of these rock *bands* were also listening to and loving LZ

The question is did the music world need LZ to come up w/this, or would it have happened anyway? Who knows!

It's not so much that LZ came up with it, it's that they came up with it with Glyn and/or Andy Johns engineering. It had to be that combination of band and engineer(s).

My mate told me that Page insisted they have a different engineer for each album so people would know their sound was largely down to him. My mate is quite full of shit though, so it might not be true.

Out of NYCAlex's list of hypothetical longevity artists from our time and speaking from a US perspective, I don't see how anyone but Beyonce can be seriously considered as an artist/performer people will still remember 30 years from now; she has the most commercial success, the most critical success and the most media exposure of anyone listed there.

Music geeks are going to remember Beck but EVERYONE is going to remember Beyonce; she's been around for too long at too high of a profile to be forgotten, regardless of what you think of her music. She has basically been set up as the new Diana Ross at this point.

this band is unfuckwithable

plus beck already sounds dated! xp

I certainly don't think they have.

How many 2008 kids remember Diana Ross, just out of interest?

Dan, putting that much effort into debunking an offhand Alex in NYC diss is almost like trying to engage Geir in a debate.

My mate told me that Page insisted they have a different engineer for each album so people would know their sound was largely down to him.

LZ I - Glyn Johns
LZ II - Eddie Kramer, George Chkiantz, Chris Huston, Andy Johns
LZ III - Andy Johns, Terry Manning
LZ IV - Andy Johns
Houses - Andy Johns
Physical - Keith Harwood, Andy Johns, Eddie Kramer, Ron Nevison
Presence - Keith Harwood
In Through - Leif Mases

Beck hasn't even held up well to now so I don't see how he's going to hold up well in 30 years.

I need my old college radio buddy who liked the Yardbirds better to disagree with all of ya...

thats jeff beck not beck beck

i don't think they've dated that much, or to the extent that they have, it doesn't matter much since there has been plenty of 'new' rock music (the white stripes, for one) that shows the influence. these things are pretty cyclical; 15 years ago it would have been more apprpriate to consider LZ dated than now, I think

People will remember Beyonce and think: Holy Crap, what an insane amount of time, attention and money was abjectly wasted on an egomaniacal, undercooked, overblown 'talent.' She's a pretty face and little more beyond that.

'people'

Interesting, so not a single person here agrees with me.

Diana Ross not being remembered by the teenage boy music dorks that will grow up to be ILXors =/= Diana Ross not being remembered

NTI, I think you might just have a case of "I'm not 16 anymore"

teenage boy music dorks that will grow up to be ILXors

what? ILXors are grown-up?

Well, they're not teenagers anyway. Crut1s is at least 20 now, right?

Well, there's a lot of music I listened to as a teenager that hits me just as hard if not harder now. Some (say, ELP) doesn't. But maybe, say, in the case of Bonham, we just take that sound for granted now. I was just shocked at how little of it really knocked me the fuck OUT.

However, you really need to watch that Kashmir live vid I linked to at the top...

People will remember Beyonce and think: Holy Crap, what an insane amount of time, attention and money was abjectly wasted on an egomaniacal, undercooked, overblown 'talent.' She's a pretty face and little more beyond that.

Just like they do with Diana Ross, whose music still gets played at the drop of a hat.

You hating her doesn't mean people won't still be playing her music at wedding receptions, Alex.

True.

holy shit at the Bonham head-fake at 1:06

dan otm on this one

x-post

But has Killing Joke dated poorly and will they be remembered as well as Beyonce? x-post to Alex in NY

Ugh ppl we had reached a resolution here, do we need to do the poorly-reasoned baiting thing on every thread?

NTI-you just may be tired of them. Although I don't like LZ nearly as much as some similar bands from that era, I don't think they sound especially dated. I think LZII sounds dated, but the stuff they did after that sounds really fresh to these ears, especially III and PG.

Whether "people" remember KJ or not is ultimately immaterial. They never achieved the heights of popularity of either Zeppelin or Beyonce. Their own will remember them. That's all that matters.

it's kinda funny how when any other drummer plays kashmir or when the levee breaks, they play two bass drum notes on the downbeat to try to simulate his huge sound. even on that live clip it sounds like he has a delay on the kick (but he doesn't!).

xpost weren't Killing Joke, like, Nazis?

oh god

Ugh ppl we had reached a resolution here, do we need to do the poorly-reasoned baiting thing on every thread?

-- HI DERE, Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:35 PM (9 minutes ago) BookmarkLink hehe yes!

Yeah, Royal Albert Hall recording w/overdubs. xpost

I know the OP is 5 years old now but I hear variations on this sometimes:

Jimmy Page's solos ("Heartbreaker" for one) were always ridiculously slapdash

Are there even any 'slapdash' moments after the first two albums, let alone ones that are ridiculously so? I definitely don't think this is a sensible thing to say about e.g. "Achilles's Last Stand".

The comments about the production seem insane too.

Hot dog solo is remarkably pathetic

OK, I don't listen much at all to that album, admittedly, and never thought of "Hot Dog" as more than throwaway filler. "Always" is pretty OTT though.

"Good Times, Bad Times" is one of the greatest Album 1, Side 1, Track 1s of all time. OF ALL TIME.

― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Thursday, July 4, 2013 8:16 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Also, "I'm Gonna Crawl" one of the most affecting Last Album, Side 2, Last Tracks of all time.

no

yes.

even if it wasn't intended to be their last album, but that's part of why it's so affecting for me.

"In Through The Out Door" was the only Zep album i'm old enough to rembember when it was new. I only listened to pop/top-40 radio at the time, and it sounded like nothing else I'd ever heard on the radio. It also didn't sound much like any other Led Zeppelin album. I still think it's underrated, at least compared to their other albums.

they sound a hell of a lot better to me now than they did in the 80s, so i figure they've dated rather well

Hot dog solo is remarkably pathetic

― the Spanish Porky's (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, July 4, 2013 6:26 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They really should have flown in James Burton to overdub that one. Jimmy was aiming for it, but the H was taking it's toll that day.

Eh, so his timing and articulation are off a bit. I still think "Hot Dog"'s a great little anomaly in the Crunge/D'yer Maker tradition.

Ha, those are the two songs that bring down HotH from 10/10 status for me.

I mean, it would be hard to flawlessly master all the styles Page tried to play with.

But e.g. "The Rover" and "Stairway" are two more really elegant, memorable solos on top of the one I mentioned. Pretty much everything on Presence is very well-played and well-constructed imo.

Some of JP's weeeirdest soloing on "Presence" too! All that Fender wangbar abuse.

(Love "The Crunge", don't care much for "D'yer Maker" but they both served my point anyways)

Hell yeah

https://traxman1.bandcamp.com/album/traxman-vs-zeppelin-e-p

What fresh, hot garbagey Hell is this?

Guess I should have posted on the footwork thread

Oh god, why?!

Let's remix Led Zeppelin but squash the drums -- the best part -- and replace them with extremely shitty digi-hats and handclaps!

Ok

(LZ drums are all-time but still don't stand up to an 808 on a soundsystem)

This is definitely Not For Me™️

sorry Jord, swing and a miss lol

omg

I find myself appreciating Led Zeppelin more than I ever did other than the time in my life when I was just being exposed to loud, guitar-based music and they served as one of several gateway drugs. And with this newfound appreciation, I find the band's music to be both a perfect encapsulation of a long-gone era, but also somewhat timeless.

See AC/DC for an even better example of what I speak of.

(LZ drums are all-time but still don't stand up to an 808 on a soundsystem)

mix isn’t great but I’d rather hear it than any of their classics

You do you!

it gets much worse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8m6yilFSI

I'm a drummer, I looove JB, but the 808 clap has made more people dance than his snare drum sound.

(also if the kick is also meant to be the source of bass in the track, it's usually layered with other samples)

Too lazy to ctrl + f for Page/Mattix jokes but I’m sure ILXors of Time Past got that covered.

People will remember Beyonce and think: Holy Crap, what an insane amount of time, attention and money was abjectly wasted on an egomaniacal, undercooked, overblown 'talent.' She's a pretty face and little more beyond that.

^ better joke than the "Whole Lotta Love" remix
xp

(Sorry Jordan!)

I’m not even a huge beyonce fan but comparing her to zeppelin is almost unfair on zeppelin

TS: ‘Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)’ vs songs about the One Ring.

Ring Cycle obv

otm

(LZ drums are all-time but still don't stand up to an 808 on a soundsystem)

In 2005, I had a chance to see Destiny's Child and I passed it up because of 'school'. I don't know why I air quoted school, I actually had a test. I thought I could catch them on the next tour, but I think you know what happened.

You can still see Beyonce.

All I would see are the two that aren't there.

Jordan's convinced me. All drum tracks should be retroactively swapped out with 808s. Cause dancing, sound systems, etc.

*Throws challops flag*

this is the purest calstars bait (that doesn't involve bars) <3

It does kind of involve children where they shouldn’t be though

this isn't even a well-used or well-mixed 808! It sounds like shit!

^^^
Is this guy intentionally defecating on all sides of the beat?

Like I could see elements (mellotron, etc.) of No Quarter being used in a bobbins way, but this dude (gotta be a dude) wants shooting.

I love footwork but Traxman has always bamboozled me and err... yeah not a fan of this

Ok I'm not going to die on this hill, it's just a silly EP of chopped Led Zep samples in a juke context.

Buuut speaking of context...if the 'When the Levee Breaks' break sounded good in fast dance music, it would be used in fast dance music. JB's drums are huge, wide, and aggressive and so they're usually sampled at slower tempos when you want that rock energy (Beastie Boys, Bjork, blah blah blah). There's a reason why he's not sampled much in drum & bass (although sure, anything's possible).

And 808 bass/kicks/claps are not objectively worse than even the best drummer when it comes to recorded music, they're just different. There's also a reason why you hear them 1000000000x more than Led Zep drum loops, and it has to do with how effective they are, which partly has due with the sheer frequencies involved, and the cultural weight at this point. I really should not have to explain this in 2020.

Dunno, who did Led Zeppelin go out with?