Germs -vs- Shaggs

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Which band had less sense of rhythm?

We won't argue again the merits of the Shaggs... They are classic and that discussion shall not be rehashed. The Germs ... share some of the Shaggs attributes - that is: Naiveté and poor musicianship.

.. So does that make the Germs classic by substitution?

― Dave225, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Danged if I know. In the hands of the right folks, though, their songs get a swift kick in the booty shaker (cf. Bauer's "We Have a Savior"; Melvin's "Lexicon Devil").

I have a feeling Beat Happening is going to be mentioned in this discussion (esp. since they best exemplify the bridge between the Shaggs' naive whimsy and the Germs naive thuggery). (Well, hey! I brought them up! Go me!)

― Daver, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I prefer the Germs because they don't think they're cute.

― John Darnielle, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The key is that the Shaggs had their *OWN* rhythm which apparently owed nothing to any semblance of conventional rhythm, but that still worked for them.

The Germs? Well, they were just drunk, sloppy, high and pissed off.

― Alex in NYC, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

ken ishii has no sense of rhythm

― bob snoom, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Germs had better cover art. Blue circle > scary mutant tiger thing.

― Nate Patrin, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

two years pass...

are any of the Germs albums worth shelling out $$ for? I can't locate a copy of (GI) for less than $40...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I prefer the Germs because they don't think they're cute.

god, darnielle couldn't be more wrong if he tried.

oh, and, Shaggs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Germs

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:48 (nineteen years ago) link

are any of the Germs albums worth shelling out $$ for? I can't locate a copy of (GI) for less than $40...

amazon has "m.i.a." (GI+EPs+more) for $15. it's absolutely worth every penny, unless you're one of these 'original vinyl' suckers.

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 23:54 (nineteen years ago) link

The Germs knew what they were doing; the lyrics/music are too well composed to suggest otherwise. Their naivete was chemically induced. Plus, they got "better."
Forming > Pussy Foot, but not by much, and for different reasons.
Comes down to whether you think "outsider art" is soley the province of backwoods, schizophrenic abuse victims, or whether nervy, untrained, psychic dynamos cut it.

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link

heaven is a place on earth

― dave q, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:48 (nineteen years ago) link

are any of the Germs albums worth shelling out $$ for? I can't locate a copy of (GI) for less than $40...
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 2nd, 2004.

get the "m.i.a." anthology, it's pretty easy to find (and it kicks ass).

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahah -- Dave Q wins again.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:13 (nineteen years ago) link

get the "m.i.a." anthology, it's pretty easy to find (and it kicks ass).

Ignoring the AMG reviewer of it, though. He's a punk.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:14 (nineteen years ago) link

ned you know the allmusic guide is in those lookup terminal thingamobobs they have at music stores now, right?

do you get anything from that, money wise?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:18 (nineteen years ago) link

None beyond the original payment, and to work there you do sign a release pretty much confirming that. I wouldn't feel comfortable going into that further on a public forum, though.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:20 (nineteen years ago) link

:gulps nervously: ah, sorry about that. i was just curious, as its kinda funny going into the local music shop and seeing your name on there and then going home logging on here etc.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:23 (nineteen years ago) link

I'M IN YOUR HEAD!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Malkovich?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Ragget?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:26 (nineteen years ago) link

JACK COLE OTM!!!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't know this Ragget. RaggetT however...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I CAN'T WIN IN THIS MADHOUSE!!!!

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:45 (nineteen years ago) link

i dream of world where i can have a serious discussion about the shaggs.

― jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 2 September 2004 04:23 (nineteen years ago) link

TIM ELLISON OTM ABOUT JACK COLE BEING OTM!!!

― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Thursday, 2 September 2004 04:37 (nineteen years ago) link

The tunefulness of some of the songs ("Philosophy of the World," "Who Are Parents," "It's Halloween") is incredibly strong and sweet. Even sometimes when they're grinding out some of their grunge--like on, say, "My Companion"--I find the melodies to be very well constructed. And on some of the songs on which the melodies run up and down the scales so randomly, the construction of the melodies can be truly extraordinary. ("Sweet Thing" is maybe the best example of this, but there are other good'uns, too.)

It's actually a considerably better album than the Feminine Complex album (which definitely has its moments).

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 2 September 2004 05:07 (nineteen years ago) link

wrong!

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Thursday, 2 September 2004 05:42 (nineteen years ago) link

It's really a genius record, completely wonderful on its own merits and without any need of context or backstory. They sort of really did create their own language, that only they could play in quite the same manner. It's like Beefheart/MagicBand in that way -- not to say a surface level of "weirdness" or "outness" or whatev (useless descriptors), but in the two groups' ability to present their particular song-form as effortless and natural. I can pretty much figure out the Shaggs songs on guitar, but I found myself constantly struggling with the rhythms. But to them they are perfectly natural and CONSISTENT throughout the LP; they may initially strike the unfamiliar ear as sloppy, but you grow accustomed to their dogged consistency throughout the record.

The fact that the drummer is so monomaniacal with her bass/snare thing on many cuts doesn't really detract from this. You just have to sort of adjust to it, syncopation and all that. I think that is what throws a lot of people off. But the real action is in the chromatic sashays of those brilliant guitars and voices, obliterating bar lines -- just like Charley P usedta do -- walking and resting and in love with their own internal swing. Shaggs for that one wonderful album burned as brightly as Don and Ornette and Harry and all the other 20th century American greats.

― Reed Moore (diamond), Thursday, 2 September 2004 06:26 (nineteen years ago) link

"oh, and, Shaggs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Germs"

I'm not sure I agree with that..

Shaggs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Germs, obviously; but Shaggs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Germs may be going a bit far.

Oh, I dunno 'though.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 2 September 2004 12:01 (nineteen years ago) link

My sister is a music teacher in rural New Hampshire; the Shaggs are as much about NH as the Germs are about LA, which is to say an awful lot.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 2 September 2004 12:56 (nineteen years ago) link

heaven is a place on earth

haha! how about the go-go's (the post-germs "pop" incarnation) vs. the shaggs?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 2 September 2004 13:04 (nineteen years ago) link

cocaine vs. incest?

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 2 September 2004 13:32 (nineteen years ago) link

"amazon has "m.i.a." (GI+EPs+more) for $15. it's absolutely worth every penny, unless you're one of these 'original vinyl' suckers. "

I don't need "original vinyl" but I definitely prefer vinyl. Which is what I was referring to when I said everything I saw was $40+.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 2 September 2004 15:08 (nineteen years ago) link

GODZ

― gainfully employed (ex machina), Thursday, 2 September 2004 15:10 (nineteen years ago) link

shoesalemen vs teen girls, jon?

― jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 2 September 2004 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link

shaggs = best band evah

― Elvis is Dead, Thursday, 2 September 2004 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link

go ahead and spend the $40 for the vinyl. i don't hear the drunk, sloppy, poor musicianship on (gi) at all, for what that's worth. definitely on the single and the live stuff, but not on the album. what are you guys listening to?

― dan (dan), Thursday, 2 September 2004 19:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I could have sworn there was one of those recent Earmark Italian 180-gram pressing vinyl reissues of (GI). But maybe I'm wrong. FE doesn't seem to have it, so maybe I imagined it.

― Reed Moore (diamond), Thursday, 2 September 2004 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link

dan is OTM. the album is tight.

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Thursday, 2 September 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link

has 'what we do is secret' come out yet?

having lived in rural NH i just cant pick one

― kephm (kephm), Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Another thing --- the Germs were avowed fans of lots of glam bands and (in Pat Smear's case) Yes. Later on, Darby Crash was quite influenced by Adam Ant (sartorially at least).

The Shaggs, meanwhile, grew up in complete musical isolation with no tangible influences to speak of, I believe.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Uh, I don't know if I'd call Don Bolles' drumming on that record "tight"...

Alex, I don't think your Shaggs comment is true. Check "My Companion."

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:09 (nineteen years ago) link

though the shaggs may have been "isolated" in the sense of not being around other musicians or being in a scene, they were hardly isolated from pop music as heard on the radio.

― jack cole (jackcole), Friday, 3 September 2004 05:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Have you been to rural New Hampshire? The radio isn't great, and wasn't better in the late 60s.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 3 September 2004 07:01 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...

The Shaggs scare me. Seriously. Everything about them gives me the creeps.

― darin (darin), Friday, 19 November 2004 01:18 (nineteen years ago) link

some of the burmese pop i've been listening to reminds me of the shaggs.

― don't blame me, i voted for ram jam (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 19 November 2004 10:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Whatever dude, on GI Don Bolles is fuckin locked on. Now if only they could do something about that guitar sound...it was a lot cooler on the post-Forming-pre-GI stuff.

Both are good, but I listen to the Germs stuff a lot more than I do the Shaggs, so Germs take it.

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 19 November 2004 17:35 (nineteen years ago) link

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