Todd Rundgren: C or D

But I can't stand Frank Zappa.

I'm really enjoying listening to The Nazz right now, thanks to the recently issued "Todd Sings The Nazz" CD. Seems like all they needed was a good singer. But I think we did The Nazz recently too, so I'll shut up now.

I searched, I searched! Anybody got the link?

damn.

new Rundgren LP - Arena - sort of a metal/stoner guitar record.
sounds good on paper, but the thing itself- i've seen better.
it's not the Todd it used to be..

My friends got me tickets to see him in November...kinda dreading it...never seen him live before and fear it could be a carwreck...

He's coming to the super-small community theatre in my town next month.

Haven't heard this, but the last one, Liars, was a huge return to form and probably his best record since the 1970's...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qbzqv

"Bang on the Drum" is the best of the "Turn that off! That song couldn't be any more played out TURN IT OFF" songs.

Busy in Louisiana helping kids in the 9th Ward according to Offbeat magazine:

Todd Rundgren is coming to Louisiana in a big way: Not only is he playing the House of Blues (on June 23) and hosting his Toddstock fan convention at the Nottoway Plantation in White Castle, but he’ll be making a side trip to the Upper 9th Ward on June 19, where he’ll join the Youth Orchestra of the Lower 9th Ward (YOL9W) to celebrate his 65th birthday

This month he launched a fan campaign to raise money for the YOL9W; as of this week they’d taken in more than $3,000. He’s also invited fans to design a logo for the Orchestra; the winning entry will be unveiled at the event. The after-school music program aims for social change through music; the group has played eight concerts this year and worked onstage with the Preservation Hall Jazz Band.

As part of the visit, the group will perform at least one of Rundgren’s songs with him.

So I've been a fan of Wizard and the pop hits on Very Best of for a little while and have just started exploring his vast discography. I've been listening fairly obsessively. Right now, I almost feel like he was classic on a Beatles level. The guy is almost depressingly talented. Not only is he wildly eclectic but he achieves a fairly high level of mastery at most of the things he attempted: singing, lead guitar, synths (and every other instrument on some albums!), production, songwriting; post-Beatles/Beach Boys pop-rock, 70s singer-songwriter tunes, post-Hendrix guitar solos, eccentric 1-minute art-pop songs, Zappa-meets-Yes epic prog, soul-pop balladeering, electronic new wave, wholesale replications of difficult works by classic artists. I'm pretty surprised by how consistently good I find many of his albums, considering how eclectic they are. I like all of these without much reservation: Runt; Something/Anything; A Wizard, a True Star; Hermit of Mink Hollow; Healing; the first two Utopia albums; Faithful. Plus, there's some really good stuff on Todd and Initiation (didn't get into that 35-min synthesizer composition though).

Faithful

I mean, I imagine that side 1 of this becomes pretty inessential once you get past how impressive it was as an exercise.

He was the all-in-one studio whiz that Prince modeled himself after

there are more than a few moments where he doesn't sound like the model for prince so much as he just simply sounds like prince. his version of "never never land" on wizard for example.

Utopia's Deface the Music is way way better so far as a pastiche/homage/parody type thing goes, tho Faithful isn't really that, but y'know. Amazing record

that's weird; I had a dream about XTC last night and woke up thinking about the Rundgren-produced albums, then opened my computer to see this thread. I suppose I need to hear his own stuff now

Imago, A Wizard, a True Star is still my favourite so I highly recommend that one. However, I'd also be interested to know what you'd think of the first Utopia album (this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Rundgren's_Utopia_(album) ), since it was his full-on prog album.

Deface the Music was actually the first TR album where I felt turned off pretty soon. It just reminded me of a kind of Beatlesque indie twee-pop that I don't care for. But maybe I'll try again. It's possible that I wasn't in the mood at the time. I didn't make it the whole way through. I love the Beatles so I'm not sure exactly what the problem was.

When you say "Runt", do you mean "Runt" or "Runt. The Ballad of Todd Rundgren"

I meant the former, the one with "We Gotta Get You a Woman". I still haven't listened to all of The Ballad of.

I saw him live last night. full on EDM for the most part! The only old song he played was "secret society" from POV, wtf. Oh and he did EDM covers of "personality crisis" and "prime time". 3 piece band, electronic drum kit (think it was prarie prince), lasers, multiple pairs of scifi goggles. Some great guitar solos from Todd and the other guitarist, but todd was mainly singing and dancing. Idk, it was weird.

t/s: oblivion vs. P.O.V.

circle of amour by prince sounds pretty todd-y.

Imago... I'd also be interested to know what you'd think of the first Utopia album (this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Rundgren's_Utopia_(album) ), since it was his full-on prog album.

Not Imago here, but if I may interrupt, I'd say it was...

http://lyriki.com/images/thumb/a/a4/AlbumArt-Various_Artists-Best_Prog_Rock_Album_(2003).jpg/250px-AlbumArt-Various_Artists-Best_Prog_Rock_Album_(2003).jpg

Oh, and Evening Star, stick with the 35-min synth composition ('A Treatise on Cosmic Fire'). I've always loved the first half of this, and then, about 30 years later, I finally learned to appreciate the rest of it!

"The Ikon" is really quite amazing - one of the greatest (and longest) prog epics. I never came around to "Treatise" but the start of part three (when things really start to go into full freak mode) is entertaining.

i adore the main riff of "the ikon". those first two utopia albums are so much fun. i could listen to Mid70s Todd and Roer jams forever.

roer = roger powell

that part in the Ikon when it turns into one of Todd's trademark awesome R&B ballads - the "you don't have to be afraid" bit, it always floors me because its really out of nowhere.

heres the real question - is he worth seeing live nowadays? he's coming to Milwaukee and tickets aren't really too bad - my Dad is big into Todd and I was thinking about taking him.

I saw him live last night. full on EDM for the most part! The only old song he played was "secret society" from POV, wtf. Oh and he did EDM covers of "personality crisis" and "prime time". 3 piece band, electronic drum kit (think it was prarie prince), lasers, multiple pairs of scifi goggles. Some great guitar solos from Todd and the other guitarist, but todd was mainly singing and dancing. Idk, it was weird.

― brimstead, Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:17 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Most of his new stuff is still really soulful, though, he opened with "truth" from Liars and that's kind of where the new stuff branches out from.

my bad, didnt fully read the thread - I dunno if that's good or bad, I don't think either of us have heard anything even up to POV, but his new stuff does get good reviews. interesting

i just remembered that he DID play a medley of "hello it's me"/"i saw the light"/"can we still be friends" for the encore. all sidechain-y dance pop versions.

I'm astounded by how great the second side of Faithful is - combine it with side one of Initiation and you've got a hell of a record

for all the praise "Couldn't I Just Tell You" seems to get, "Love of the Common Man" is basically just as good, and maybe even more repeatable

IDM covers of "personality crisis" and "prime time".

I was just gonna ask "The Tubes' "Prime Time?" and then I went to youtube. Uh, yeah, that's kinda goofy. The synths sound way too thin and cheesy.

Love of the Common Man is great

this guy is a piece of shit

a soulless fake prog nilsson is no way to go through life, son

There is nothing fake about Rundgren's prog.

Ummmm

a soulless fake prog nilsson

Even if this was true, it sounds like it would be pretty cool.

soulless? have you heard "the last ride"?

when i met her, it felt like the first time i heard "bang on the drum all day"

I don't think that's actually true of European classical music either though

But well ahead of the curve in some respects, considering the fairly recent trend of bands faithfully covering their own songs in order to circumvent copyright issues and garner a bit more streaming revenue.

well it would be if these bands were hiring Todd Rundgren to record identical covers of their songs

That happened all the time in the 70s anyway. Not by the likes of Todd Rundgren though, more Freddie & the Dreamers.

the yardbirds cover completely fucking rules come on

about as much as the original does yeah

I don't think that's actually true of European classical music either though

Correct. I get where he's coming from but his explanation is a grossly inaccurate oversimplification. I saw this firsthand last week when I was looking for a rendition of the Badinerie from Bach's orchestral suites that matched my memory of what I heard as a kid - Trevor Pinnock recorded two well-received renditions about 15 years apart, and that segment alone was markedly different, with the later one taken a much faster tempo.

*taken at

I've never seen Gus Van Sant's shot-by-shot remake of Psycho, but I'm wondering if it's the same kind of impulse.

the yardbirds cover does sound different, though! It sounds like heavy 70s rock, the guitars all have that gorgeous golden 70s Boston BOC distortion… the original is awesome too, it just sounds garagey and ramshackle and kinda messy

ok ... i think we all know what he meant about the difference between european classical and rock music. you don't have to put on your musicologist hat to understand

I admit that's the one cover where the original I don't know too well, you're right that one is a bit different

its still kind of a weird message, like I get the whole "this is Mozart to me" angle, a lot of people have said things like that about classic rock, but then showing you can replicate these incredibly revered studio tracks all by yourself...its kind of a weird message

mostly I think people give him shit for it because the second side is so good, if the first half had more songs of that quality I think this would be considered one of his best albums.

I've never seen Gus Van Sant's shot-by-shot remake of Psycho, but I'm wondering if it's the same kind of impulse.

Personally, I thought that was at best a misguided waste of time. But a friend who thinks it's a commendable film based his argument on the casting - something to do with sexuality where Van Sant now had Anne Heche in Marion's role rather than Anthony Perkins in Norman's role. It's been too long for me to correctly remember and repeat his entire argument, but he kind of engaged with it the way one might engage with a film being shown in a loop as part of an art installation - you didn't necessarily have to sit through the whole thing, just enough to pick up on the conceptual idea being put across. Anyway, if side 1 of Faithful had some conceptual idea of real value, I'm more than open to it, but I haven't heard Rundgren make a case for any that sounded compelling.

I recently read this little reappraisal, which I thought was interesting: https://www.pastemagazine.com/movies/gus-van-sant/psycho-remake-gus-van-sant-predicted-hollywood-ip

That reading works, but it's also referring to ideas that have been famously explored but other filmmakers at least 30 years before Van Sant made his movie. (It's also a pretty glaring omission for that reviewer not to acknowledge any of that.)

I’m sure you’re right, but what are you referring to specifically? Just curious (though I guess we could take this to a GVS thread…)

With the covers, personally I think growing up listening to Todd since a baby it was just like, “here’s uncle Todd playing the songs he likes”. Like a folk kind of thing more than classical.

It is fun to spot the seams, where he didn’t get the sounds right and what he did to compromise. Or, like for happenings where he was just like “fuck it, let’s so heavy and soaring on this one”. And it is a good collection of tunes. But yeah, not necessary I guess.

I love Todd biut not an essential record….also considering he was supposed to be an engineer his records do sound a bit lacklustre and I’m no audiophile

xxp Warhol is the first one that comes to mind - not just for his work addressing reproduction and pop culture, but even zeroing in on the actual differences between the two films bring to mind Warhol's films showing activities that would seem mundane and predictable. They may test an unsuspecting viewer's patience, but the audience can light up when even the smallest gesture breaks the familiarity of what's playing out (like a guy lighting a cigarette during a haircut).

And Godard has experimented with replication, and not just with films but with literary works - he's made films like Nouvelle Vague, Puissance de la parole and several others where every the script consists entirely of quotation, and it's not even supposed to be an adaptation - one of the boldest examples I can think of if you want to explore how replication can relate to creation.

*every line in the script

I love Todd biut not an essential record….also considering he was supposed to be an engineer his records do sound a bit lacklustre and I’m no audiophile

This is crazy to me. Side 2 rules. And i think my vinyl sounds finefine

I don't think any of his 70s records sound particularly good but they all have some magic moments, moments which make me go "how'd he do that?" he was the one guy really pushing the boundaries of how much music you could fit on one side of a record, which in turn I think is why he produces his records to be more treble-heavy. but unfortunately it does make some of his most ambitious stuff sound pretty bad in spots. the first Utopia LP is a good example of that. Faithful sounds pretty good though.

Anyway, if side 1 of Faithful had some conceptual idea of real value, I'm more than open to it, but I haven't heard Rundgren make a case for any that sounded compelling.

I mean if nothing else it's the only cover album I can think of where the goal is to sound as close to the original as possible (minus the thing mentioned upthread where artists re-record their own catalogue for more better royalties). I suppose that is kind of interesting. I guess that Weezer covers album comes pretty close but I think this is more because Weezer kinda suck as a band.

His albums sound great but no they’re not like… slick carpenters or arif mauldin or something. the sound the dude got in the 70s was extraordinary, like the compressed distorted drums on “international feel”, his freakin gorgeous piano sound, his phased Hendrix tributes, his production style had character and I don’t think it’s fair or relevant to point out that it doesn’t sound as good as Barry Manilow or something. Sorry for aggro, I like poster frogbs I just love Todd and get carried away

“Hello it’s me” is kind of a marvelous production, he wall-of-sounds it but everything still sounds light and crystalline

hah no worries, I mean it's the same complaint I have with a lot of weird 70s stuff where the lack of bass sometimes makes me feel like I have a head cold. the end of Side 2 of Wizard is a good example, like "I Don't Want to Tie You Down" sounds absolutely brilliant to me, like it's a song that seems to only take place in his imagination if that makes sense...all those unsteady synth effects against such a gorgeous ballad, it's really special. but then the next "Is It My Name?" just feels really compressed, almost like it was recorded in a garage or something. at first I wondered if this was just inner groove distortion but the CD sounds this way too. to some degree I think it's intentional but I wish it had some bass. Zen Archer is kind of the same.

"Shine" is so amazing, sounds very ahead of it's time too (am I wrong?)

I think so too, I can't think of any early 80s electronic tracks which use a rave up beat like that. but there's gotta be something.

always wondered how exactly the drums were done on that album, I kinda suspect Todd just built his own stuff which is why every drum pattern sounds so unique and odd

Healing is amazing all around, one of the best albums still readily available in the bargain bin and my favorite of his after Wizard (or maybe just my favorite).

But yeah it does sound ahead of its time by a few years

Was surprised to find a copy for two bucks a while back, but I got the reissue anyway because it was cheap and had the 7 inch, which I think is essential. Plus the clear/blue vinyl looks pretty.

This years RSD will have a reissue of Liars, which I think is his best album since. Pretty similar to Healing too.

this dude just announced a show this summer in my small town. a 450-seat theater that sounds great. should i go see him?

you should, though don't expect to hear any of the classics, when I saw him it was nearly all 21st Century stuff. who knows though he changes it up a lot so maybe he is touring the classics now

If he wanted to do Liars all the way through I'd be up for that show.

fuck, yes

I just realized he’s playing in early May in Boston. Just got tickets.

I watched a couple recent live videos of his within the last six months or so and I remember thinking that the vocals sounded pretty capital r ruff but hopefully he was having an off night…he also fell flat on his face at the end of one of the tracks which was just hard to see tbh. He did spring right back up though…

Vocally or physically? Yikes

I saw him about 5 or 6 years ago, he sounded great. Dude tours a lot though so idk how he sounds night to night

Yeah I saw him 6 years ago and he mostly played new stuff I didn’t recognize. He did a medley of hits, iirc and closed with “one world” (which fucking rocked). He also played “secret society” for some reason??

Also saw the live Wizard show he did in SF in 08 or so, completely brilliant and perfect, insane amount of costume changes despite no gaps in between songs, spectacular performance, the band nailed it (kasim, prairie, young Todd clone)

Only other time I saw him was on the Arena tour and I don’t remember him playing anything before 2000 besides… “number one lowest common denominator” or something? rocked but idk kinda boring tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro9g_ZZ88xk

This is the one I was thinking of…I just browsed some other stuff from 2023 where he sounded better though (I had to be sure) so I doubt this is the usual Todd experience.

its definitely not he never tripped over a speaker any of the times I saw him

#Runt4Prez

Was wondering why he was playing Sugar Land, but then looked it up and he was opening for Daryl Hall at The Smart Centre (Todd's second time playing the venue: he opened for Yes there in 2017).

Terrific looking setlist for that '23 show:

Real Man
Love of the Common Man
It Wouldn't Have Made Any Difference
We Gotta Get You a Woman
Buffalo Grass
I Saw the Light
Black Maria
Unloved Children
Hello It's Me (Nazz song)
Sometimes I Don't Know What to Feel
I'm So Proud (The Impressions cover)
Ooo Baby Baby (The Miracles cover)
I Want You (Marvin Gaye cover)
The Want of a Nail

Imagine being an old person in 1973 who dozed off during Carson and who suddenly woke up during this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGcqnb0LFTw

My favourite live clips from that moment are British glam bands on Top of the Pops, but that one's right up there too. He seems so aware of how ridiculous he looks--if CHiPS had done a glam episode, that's about what their costume department would have come up with--and delivers the song beautifully anyway.

well im an old person now but i saw this on the old grey whistle test when i was 17 and i thought it was a bit silly (and i was right)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgJRtI3CUdk

smash the glass guitar todd!

kinda wish Utopia's prog phase lasted a bit longer I mean "Communion with the Sun" is so fucking good

smash the glass guitar frogsbs!

going to see him tonight!