Best track on Trout Mask Replica

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Yes, it's the most over-exposed album on ILM, but no poll as yet... I think... I hope. How long before the first "Well, when it comes down to it, I actually prefer Lick My Decals Off" post?

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Moonlight on Vermont 13
Ella Guru 4
Veteran's Day Poppy2
The Dust Blows Forward 'N The Dust Blows Back 2
Dachau Blues 2
Ant Man Bee 2
When Big Joan Sets Up 1
Orange Claw Hammer 1
Wild Life 1
She's Too Much For My Mirror 1
The Blimp 1
Steal Softly Thru Snow 1
Frownland 1
Hair Pie: Bake 2 1
Dali's Car 1
Pachuco Cadaver 1
Sweet Sweet Bulbs 1
Fallin' Ditch 0
Old Fart at Play 0
Hair Pie: Bake 1 0
Well 0
Hobo Chang Ba 0
Bills Corpse 0
My Human Gets Me Blues 0
Neon Meate Dream of a Octafish 0
China Pig 0
Sugar 'N Spikes 0
Pena 0


Tom D., Tuesday, 8 January 2008 14:46 (thirteen years ago) link

Our Alice's middle name is Ella.

Mark G, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 14:48 (thirteen years ago) link

Nice. You know of the Beefheart track "Alice In Blunderland" too?

Tom D., Tuesday, 8 January 2008 14:49 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, but it was more the b-side of "Stingray" by the Shadows, "Alice in Sunderland"

Mark G, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 14:50 (thirteen years ago) link

Dali's Car.

I know, right?, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 14:53 (thirteen years ago) link

Hmmmmm, interesting!

Tom D., Tuesday, 8 January 2008 14:53 (thirteen years ago) link

Hoi, hoi!

Trip Maker, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 15:10 (thirteen years ago) link

My vote goes to "Steal Softly Thru Snow"

Tom D., Tuesday, 8 January 2008 18:06 (thirteen years ago) link

"Ant Man Bee" for that wonderfully fucked-up horn solo and for the line "Man's lived a million years and still he kills".

Belldog, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 18:20 (thirteen years ago) link

Oh wait, that's from "Steal Softly Thru Snow".

Belldog, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 18:22 (thirteen years ago) link

So many great tracks, but I picked "Moonlight On Vermont"

snoball, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 18:31 (thirteen years ago) link

I was gonna pick Moonlight on Vermont. I dont know if I can anymore

CaptainLorax, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 20:12 (thirteen years ago) link

"The Blimp"

Euler, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 21:57 (thirteen years ago) link

"My Human Gets Me Blues" has the all-around unmatched density and "Sugar and Spikes" is even melodic; but my heart belongs to "Ella Guru" - the track that made me a fan and the first one I could bear to give a second listen.

Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 22:05 (thirteen years ago) link

"Dachau Blues". "Neon Meate Dream Of A Octafish" in second.

Just got offed, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 22:09 (thirteen years ago) link

"Veteran's Day Poppy", I think. I love "Ella Guru" though.

baaderonixx, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 22:26 (thirteen years ago) link

"Ella Guru."

My daughter's first name is Ella. It's a good name.

ellaguru, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 23:26 (thirteen years ago) link

moonlight on vermont!

bakerstreetsaxsolo, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 23:36 (thirteen years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

ILX System, Monday, 14 January 2008 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link

Sweet Sweet Sweet Bulbs.

W4LTER, Monday, 14 January 2008 03:49 (thirteen years ago) link

Another for Veteran's Day Poppy before the poll closes.

Millsner, Monday, 14 January 2008 05:00 (thirteen years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ILX System, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link

This is one of the few polls where I had no clue as to which song was gonna win.

baaderonixx, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:20 (thirteen years ago) link

I missed this one. I would have voted for the first track, "The Dust Blows Forward 'N The Dust Blows Back." I love this album more as the years go by.

nicky lo-fi, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:25 (thirteen years ago) link

Grabt album but I wouldn't have a clue which track is which.

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:48 (thirteen years ago) link

And, er, I'm surprised anyone else can remember. Did you all listen for your favourite track so you could find out its name?

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:49 (thirteen years ago) link

i could've voted for about 15 tracks, so i didn't vote.

Frogman Henry, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:52 (thirteen years ago) link

(xpost) Sorry, what do you mean?

Tom D., Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:53 (thirteen years ago) link

"Moonlight" and "Ella" are two of the "poppier" (ha) songs on the album, so not so surprising they came out on top

Tom D., Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:54 (thirteen years ago) link

They are not all the same!

I could sing you all the tracks if you mentioned the title, apart from some of the instrumentals (c'mon, that'd be a tuff gig!)

I haven't heard it for a while though (mislaid my CD somewhere)

Mark G, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:55 (thirteen years ago) link

Oh, yeah, that's a good point.

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 09:58 (thirteen years ago) link

"Ella" is the closest this album gets to a chorus.

baaderonixx, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 10:19 (thirteen years ago) link

The only thing about "Ella Guru" is the talking over bit. Which is fine on the album, but I'd like it without, for compiling externally.

I do have the instumental backing track, so one day I'll re-edit it.

Mark G, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 10:28 (thirteen years ago) link

I didn't vote. Probably would have gone with Sugar N Spikes because it deserves at least one vote.

sonderangerbot, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 10:32 (thirteen years ago) link

It does. It's another of the pop songs!

Tom D., Tuesday, 15 January 2008 10:33 (thirteen years ago) link

xp - you mean the whole "She's young too!..." rant?

baaderonixx, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 11:04 (thirteen years ago) link

Nooh, the "that's right, fast and"...

Which is great of course, but it covers over some nifty guitar bits.

Who knows, if I made one, I might well decide I miss it.

Mark G, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 11:07 (thirteen years ago) link

"I do have the instumental backing track...."

A tedious Beefheart-obsessed pedant writes:

S'not an instrumental backing track, it's ("... a bush recording - we're out recording a bush!") an entirely different recording which resulted from a largely abortive attempt by Zappa & his sound engineer Richard Kunc to record the album at the house in Ensanada Drive where The Magic Band had spent the previous 8 months writing and rehearsing it, using the same portable equipment that they'd recently been using to record Larry "Wild Man Fischer"
The only bits of those recordings that actually made the final album iirc were "Hair Pie Bake 1" and some of the spoken bits ("The Dust Blows Forward And The Dust Blows Back" "Orange Claw Hammer", "China Pig" and "The Blimp" were recorded at the house, but not by Zappa / Richard Kunc and not afaik using the same equipment).

Stewart Osborne, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 14:54 (thirteen years ago) link

ah, so it wouldn't work right, right?

Mark G, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 15:13 (thirteen years ago) link

Fuuuuuuck I forgot to vote. If I did I would have gone for "My Human Gets Me Blues"

Also, I recently realized the genius of "Veteran's Day Poppy"

Ivan, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 15:58 (thirteen years ago) link

I don't think this poll was up for long enough - my fault!

Tom D., Tuesday, 15 January 2008 15:58 (thirteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

how in the hell did Frownland only get 1 vote

flappy bird, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 23:36 (five years ago) link

DACHAU BLOOOZZ!!

brimstead, Wednesday, 25 November 2015 02:02 (five years ago) link

Why do I not own this album

brimstead, Wednesday, 25 November 2015 02:03 (five years ago) link

quite a landslide for Moonlight on Vermont. Can't even remember how that one goes. I like the one with the windscreen wiper drums.

canoon fooder (dog latin), Wednesday, 25 November 2015 09:35 (five years ago) link

... give me that old time religion.

I like the one with the windscreen wiper drums.

Not on this album.

Caput Johannis in Disco (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2015 10:29 (five years ago) link

oh no? okay then it's the crazy drums on one of the hair pie tracks.

canoon fooder (dog latin), Wednesday, 25 November 2015 10:48 (five years ago) link

I'm glad to see that the most worthy options all got at least one vote. "When Big Joan Sets Up" is the one I find myself returning to the most these days.

The Squirrel Who Punched His Dad In The Neck (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 25 November 2015 15:00 (five years ago) link

"I guess you don't get your drummer, then?"

Mark G, Wednesday, 25 November 2015 15:10 (five years ago) link

whats the one on side 3 with the sick bassline

flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 November 2015 17:49 (five years ago) link

Of course, the album as a whole is an great achievement. What I dislike about "Wild Life" is the riffs sound like leftovers, the lyric is dumb and repetitive, and the sax is particularly aimless.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:28 (one week ago) link

Wild life, along with my wife...

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:32 (one week ago) link

I like that anecdote Jim O'Rourke told recently, about someone coming up to Henry Kaiser and asking him what time signature a certain Beefheart song was in, and Kaiser replying "They're all one"

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:42 (one week ago) link

this album would be great if it was instrumental but the captain's beat/bluesman minstrelsy shtick is insufferable and sinks the whole project

nothing in the dialog and click 'OK' (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:44 (one week ago) link

Do you actualy like anything?

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:53 (one week ago) link

Not just music, but in general.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:53 (one week ago) link

lol, I knew before I opened it that Left was just taking a dump in the thread.

You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:55 (one week ago) link

Yes, Trout Mask Replica would have been better sung by Joan Baez.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:55 (one week ago) link

Talking of insufferable singers.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 15:56 (one week ago) link

i have talked about a lot of stuff i like on ilm. i like ornette's "dancing in your head" which has been compared to beefheart but is much better

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:03 (one week ago) link

not baez but maybe catherine ribiero

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:08 (one week ago) link

*ribeiro

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:08 (one week ago) link

i even said i like the instrumentals

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:10 (one week ago) link

It's funny to me when someone uses Ornette to put down Beefheart. Christgau and the TMR chapter in the book Kill Your Idols both did this. I love them both, so it's weird when someone is like, "when you grow up, you can forget that silly Beefheart nonsense and have some wholesome Ornette".

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:10 (one week ago) link

Yeah, it's dumb. I don't even equate the two, they each did their own thing.

You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:12 (one week ago) link

Hey, when you Captain Beefheart fans are done with your ba-bas and blankies, y'all can join the grownups and check out the real shit from m'man Tom Waits.

You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:13 (one week ago) link

Yes, I don't hear much of a resemblance. "Minstrelsy" is a nice touch though, I must say.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:16 (one week ago) link

But predictable as ever.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:17 (one week ago) link

they don't really sound alike to me until ornette goes electric & even then then not by much. they are different enough that liking one & not the other shouldn't be strange. i only mention ornette because it seems like every beefheart profile brings him up, much like & presumably for similar reasons that every zappa profile mentions varese

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:18 (one week ago) link

i have similar problems with tom waits, obviously. this isn't some new criticism i just made up myself

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:19 (one week ago) link

I don't like Tom Waits either. It seems Ornette and Beefheart were quite friendly, Ornette gave him a shehnai, which he proceeded to blow all over the Mirror Man sessions. But I think Ornette also gave Nico her harmonium?

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:23 (one week ago) link

Generous chap!

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:23 (one week ago) link

by all accounts he was extremely generous to other musicians

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:25 (one week ago) link

anyway so best track - at least one of the hair pies is instrumental i think? that one

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:28 (one week ago) link

Good quote from Beefheart, "I'm not trying to put my name beside Ornette Coleman, because you can't put your name beside Ornette Coleman."

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:28 (one week ago) link

An ungenerous listener might call the Captain's sax playing "minstrelsy" in relation to jazz, though.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:29 (one week ago) link

call me generous because that doesn't bother me so much. maybe it should

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:37 (one week ago) link

Think we might need to tighten up our definition of 'minstrelsy' just a smidge

You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:38 (one week ago) link

yah no shit

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:43 (one week ago) link

it's not a coincidence that a huge number of white rock vocalists sang or sing the way they do and it's not something without historical precedent. listen to the aerosmith's "honkin' on bobo" and tell me it's a) racially unproblematic and b) totally different from what beefheart was doing (yes he did more interesting things with it, that's not the point)

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:49 (one week ago) link

this is pretty basic history-of-rock stuff, it doesn't mean you have to burn your records but denial shouldn't be an option either

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:50 (one week ago) link

sir there's nothing you can tell me about honkin on bobo that I don't already know

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:52 (one week ago) link

the minstrel show has plenty of influence through a lot of (if not all) popular music, not only that made by white people, and not in any way confined to blues/rock singers

Bastard Lakes (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 16:55 (one week ago) link

of course. but there are specific ways certain tropes surface in white rock (broadly speaking) that are sort of acknowledged and handwaved away at the same time

Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 17:02 (one week ago) link

I'd wager that most people on this board are well aware that the entire concept of rock and roll was pretty much swiped wholesale from underacknowledged Black musicians. That fact alone doesn't exactly clear the way for referring to music you dislike as 'minstrelsy' because it reminds you of the work of Black artists.

You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 17:13 (one week ago) link

yeah it's not that anyone doesn't acknowledge all that, left, i'm not discounting it at all - just, to quote, you rhetorical style is often "the closest weapon at hand"

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 17:21 (one week ago) link

I mean, there are certainly plenty of problematic aspects to white electric blues (the Blueshammer problem, you might call it) but I would source them to racist interpretations of 1930s delta blues, rather than to the minstrel show. This is a world where actual minstrel show songs or "c**n songs" (Hello! Ma Baby, Bill Bailey, Mighty Lak a Rose, Swanee) are still remembered in the lineage of the Great American Songbook.

Bastard Lakes (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 17:26 (one week ago) link

listen to the aerosmith's "honkin' on bobo"

This thread has become one to watch, investing early could pay big dividends

JoeStork, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 17:28 (one week ago) link

lol, got to that part of Left's post and was like 'that's a hard no'

You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 17:57 (one week ago) link

Listening to Aerosmith's "Honkin' on Bobo" seems to have had a trauamtic effect, so I'll pass.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 18:05 (one week ago) link

When I listened to it I wound up honking all over my bobo, took me an hour to clean up

You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 18:15 (one week ago) link

Once you honk you just can't stonk.

(pls refer to educational video about "The Stonk" on youtube if you don't understand this)

Bastard Lakes (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 18:20 (one week ago) link

Surprised to see 0 votes for "my human gets me blues."

trip maker, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 18:43 (one week ago) link

it's not a coincidence that a huge number of white rock vocalists sang or sing the way they do and it's not something without historical precedent. listen to the aerosmith's "honkin' on bobo" and tell me it's a) racially unproblematic and b) totally different from what beefheart was doing (yes he did more interesting things with it, that's not the point)

― Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 bookmarkflaglink

This how the capitalist bosses talk about Beefheart?

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 20:24 (one week ago) link

what

new display name (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 20:38 (one week ago) link

The album title was suggested by Steven Tyler, who heard the phrase somewhere and the band found it funny.[4]

soref, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 21:23 (one week ago) link

(xp) Trout Mask Replica?

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 21:31 (one week ago) link

https://worldscinema.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/The-Bobo-19672-e1544456799524.png

I don't care if you're black, white, blue

soref, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 21:33 (one week ago) link

this album would be great if it was instrumental but the captain's beat/bluesman minstrelsy shtick is insufferable and sinks the whole project

You should check this out:
https://cuneiformrecords.bandcamp.com/album/pork-chop-blue-around-the-rind

o. nate, Friday, 9 April 2021 20:29 (six days ago) link


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