Love - Forever Changes Poll

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this is the times and life that i am living, and i'll face each day with a smile vs. they locking him up today and they throwing away the key, i wonder who it will be tommorow you or me?

Poll Results

OptionVotes
"Alone Again Or" (Maclean, – 3:16) 18
"You Set the Scene" (Lee, – 6:56)12
"The Red Telephone" (Lee, – 4:46) 10
"A House Is Not a Motel" (Lee, – 3:31) 9
"Maybe the People Would Be the Times or Between Clark and Hilldale" (Lee, – 3:34) 8
"Andmoreagain" (Lee/Maclean, – 3:18) 5
"Old Man" (Maclean, – 3:02) 3
"The Daily Planet" (Lee, – 3:30) 1
"Live and Let Live" (Lee, – 5:26) 1
"The Good Humor Man He Sees Everything Like This" (Lee, – 3:08) 1
"Bummer in the Summer" (Lee, – 2:24) 1


Zeno, Friday, 5 October 2007 01:38 (ten years ago) Permalink

you set the scene

Zeno, Friday, 5 October 2007 01:38 (ten years ago) Permalink

choose the impossible

Zeno, Friday, 5 October 2007 01:41 (ten years ago) Permalink

"A House Is Not a Motel" for me

chaki, Friday, 5 October 2007 01:50 (ten years ago) Permalink

Seriously impossible.

Alex in SF, Friday, 5 October 2007 03:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

Now we're talking! Definitely "The Red Telephone," the absolute pinnacle of psychedelia in its cognitive dislocations, its gazeworthy minutiae, its desire to be all things to all people, to be one with all. But it's also a gutwrenching premonition of Arthur Lee's prison time and the counterculture's general inability to live up to its own ideals. And can we settle this once and for all: the line is "We're all normal WHEN we want our freedom" not "AND we want our freedom." When you get there, ask Arthur; he'll tell you the difference.

Then comes "You Set The Scene." Worst: "Bummer in the Summer"

Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 5 October 2007 04:06 (ten years ago) Permalink

"Worst: "Bummer in the Summer". i kinda like this little,simpe tune one.

i always skip "live and let live" or "the good humor".

Zeno, Friday, 5 October 2007 04:09 (ten years ago) Permalink

I like this album but I haven't yet had one of those "classic album" moments with it when I realize that I love it more than anything. I guess I need to listen to it more maybe? I see a lot of people calling it their favorite album of the 60s both here and elsewhere.

My favorite song on it is "A House is Not a Motel"

ciderpress, Friday, 5 October 2007 05:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

"Alone Again Or" obviously

abanana, Friday, 5 October 2007 05:31 (ten years ago) Permalink

"Worst: "Bummer in the Summer". i kinda like this little,simpe tune one.

I like it too. But it's easily the worst song on the record, doesn't fit conceptually, all that.

Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 5 October 2007 05:47 (ten years ago) Permalink

you set the scene without any doubt

Frogman Henry, Friday, 5 October 2007 06:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

"Live and Let Live" cos it deserves at least one vote.

Noodle Vague, Friday, 5 October 2007 06:56 (ten years ago) Permalink

Hey, "The snot has caked against my pants" is itself worth a vote

Myonga Vön Bontee, Friday, 5 October 2007 07:29 (ten years ago) Permalink

Old man. As much as I try, I can't get into the second half of this album.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Friday, 5 October 2007 07:34 (ten years ago) Permalink

Practically impossible.

Scik Mouthy, Friday, 5 October 2007 08:00 (ten years ago) Permalink

I was always sort of put off Arthur Lee for one reason.

He's always been cited as a genius, but his band's most famous song is not written by him (Alone Again or).

This meant that I came to their first three albums late, but exactly when I needed them.

Nowadays, this is one of my favourite albums of all time, without a doubt.

(Bryan ftw)

Mark G, Friday, 5 October 2007 08:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

I voted for You Set The Scene but had to deliberate because Maybe the People Would Be the Times is so good as well.

Matt DC, Friday, 5 October 2007 08:38 (ten years ago) Permalink

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa OTM
Side One is faultless, Side Two is a bit uneven. 'Red Telephone' is my choice.

zeus, Friday, 5 October 2007 08:49 (ten years ago) Permalink

Hey, "The snot has caked against my pants" is itself worth a vote

Yes OTM, MVB!!

He's always been cited as a genius, but his band's most famous song is not written by him (Alone Again or).

This meant that I came to their first three albums late, but exactly when I needed them.

I'm confused as to why that would make you come to the first three albums late. But "Alone Again Or" is not their most famous song. That would go to "7 and 7 Is" or "My Little Red Book."

But even if it were their most famous song, how on earth could that possibly dminish Lee's genius?

Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 5 October 2007 09:08 (ten years ago) Permalink

"It's Complicated"

Mark G, Friday, 5 October 2007 09:53 (ten years ago) Permalink

OK, it's not really. More, at the time, if he was so great, it would be his song that was the most well know, as opposed to Bryan Maclean's or Burt Bacharach's.

I had heard too many rub bands that were influenced by "Forever Changes", to the point where when I heard it properly for the first time, I was all "my gog, they didn't even get close!"

(hey, I'm leaving that typo in there!)

Mark G, Friday, 5 October 2007 09:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

"You Set the Scene" is the only song I really play off this anymore. I think Arthur Lee can be a bit overrated--his songs can sound a bit too much like children's rhymes for me--but I have had a few occasions when I've woken up to "You Set the Scene" vividly playing in my head, which I would consider to be the pivotal sign of greatness.

Cat Stevens, Friday, 5 October 2007 13:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

"I think Arthur Lee can be a bit overrated"

even if its true, his rare vocals talent and beauty is undeniable.
just compare "andmoreagain" with "7 and 7 is" and "signed d.c." (the later version.
it's like 3 different,great singers..

Zeno, Friday, 5 October 2007 13:49 (ten years ago) Permalink

"The Red Telephone" for its exemplification of 1960s LA dread.

Euler, Friday, 5 October 2007 13:49 (ten years ago) Permalink

Old Man, ever since I saw Love at Glastonbury in 2003. The whole set was a beautiful moment of clarity for me, but when I got home, it was remembering Old Man that caught the essence of it.

Alba, Friday, 5 October 2007 13:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

And can we settle this once and for all: the line is "We're all normal WHEN we want our freedom" not "AND we want our freedom."

He's quoting Marat/Sade on this one; "We're all normal and we want our freedom" is a line the inmates in the asylum say.

dad a, Friday, 5 October 2007 14:00 (ten years ago) Permalink

But he quite clearly says WHEN on the recording itself despite what the Arthur Lee tribute album claims.

Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 5 October 2007 14:16 (ten years ago) Permalink

More, at the time, if he was so great, it would be his song that was the most well know, as opposed to Bryan Maclean's or Burt Bacharach's.

I thought they were teaching rockism in schools now.

I had heard too many rub bands that were influenced by "Forever Changes"

P.S. What's a rub band?

Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 5 October 2007 14:18 (ten years ago) Permalink

lol the idea I'm in school now.

Funnily enough, we were on a tour round a secondary school for Amber, the library had (amongst other things) NMEs going back ooh 30 issues?...

(not that that's rockism, etc)

Mark G, Friday, 5 October 2007 14:43 (ten years ago) Permalink

rub = rubbish, Kevin.

Alba, Friday, 5 October 2007 14:47 (ten years ago) Permalink

this is difficult.....

whatever, Friday, 5 October 2007 14:56 (ten years ago) Permalink

But he quite clearly says WHEN on the recording itself despite what the Arthur Lee tribute album claims.

-- Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, October 5, 2007 2:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

not THAT clearly! ive never heard it as anything but "and."

69, Friday, 5 October 2007 15:43 (ten years ago) Permalink

'the red telephone'

but really fucking hard poll.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Friday, 5 October 2007 15:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

It's "and" on the "FC Concert" right?

Mark G, Friday, 5 October 2007 16:00 (ten years ago) Permalink

You Set The Scene

kornrulez6969, Friday, 5 October 2007 16:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

"Maybe the People Would Be the Times or Between Clark and Hilldale"

I mean this is a hard one, but I love the way that each verse ends with an elipsis and the first word in the next verse inserts the missing word. Is that device called something?

Bill in Chicago, Friday, 5 October 2007 16:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

Difficult choice. The only track I've never much liked is "Good Humor Man" - sounds like an "Orange Skies" retread to me - and even that one's got a nice skittering orchestral freakout at the climax.

I'm gonna go with "Daily Planet". Just like "You Set The Scene", it sounds like 2 or 3 little songs joined together, but unlike that album closer, it comes full circle: Begins with "Every morning we arise...", ends with "Look, we're going round & round" and begins again, another day of sirens and accidents on Go/Stop Boulevarde, etc.

Myonga Vön Bontee, Friday, 5 October 2007 17:12 (ten years ago) Permalink

"The Red Telephone" by a nose over "You Set the Scene"

Dr Morbius, Friday, 5 October 2007 17:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

OTM Dr Morbius!

butchy, Sunday, 7 October 2007 04:08 (ten years ago) Permalink

I'm gonna go with "Maybe the People..." slightly over "A House Is Not a Motel."

Tim Ellison, Sunday, 7 October 2007 04:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

yes, Morbs got it just about right
xpost

gershy, Sunday, 7 October 2007 04:22 (ten years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

ILX System, Monday, 8 October 2007 23:01 (ten years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ILX System, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 23:01 (ten years ago) Permalink

what?

Zeno, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 23:07 (ten years ago) Permalink

I missed this. But probably would have gone for "Alone Again Or" anyway.

Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 23:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

"old man" is a much better maclean song.
)and where is the love for "daily planet")

Zeno, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 23:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

I voted for "Daily Planet"!

Myonga Vön Bontee, Wednesday, 10 October 2007 00:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

But I couldn't be unhappy with any set of results

Myonga Vön Bontee, Wednesday, 10 October 2007 00:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

I wanted to stage a rally or protest since my pick A House is Not A Motel didn't win. But I can't really complain since I liked all the candidates and feel that each gave their best effort and to lose to both You Set the Scene and Alone Again Or means that most people who voted probably got to the end of the album and that's very encouraging for all of us as we move into the future together.

Thank You. Now, c'mon, isn't it about time some wiseacre comes along and tells us why Reel to Real or whatever it's called is the REAL masterpiece. I'm game.

smurfherder, Wednesday, 10 October 2007 05:06 (ten years ago) Permalink

five months pass...

So any road: Now there's a "Collectors Edition" due shortly.

Disc 1 = Original stereo mix

Disc 2 = Stereo mix made in 1970 and used ever since, and also some extra tracks:

12. Wonder People (I Do Wonder) [outtake/previously unreleased]
13. Hummingbirds [demo/previously unreleased]
14. House Is Not A Motel [backing track/previously unreleased]
15. Andmoreagain [alt. electric backing track/previously unreleased]
16. Red Telephone
17. Woolly Bully [outtake/previously unreleased]
18. Alone Again Or [mono single mix]
19. Your Mind And We Belong Together [tracking sessions highlights]
20. Your Mind And We Belong Together
21. Laughing Stock

Mark G, Tuesday, 1 April 2008 14:11 (nine years ago) Permalink

I remember reading an interview with Arthurly years ago and him saying that Neil Young was brought into produce the album and how the rest of the band were all crying because they were too strung out to play - 'cept he didn't say Neil Young, he said "What was the name of that dude who sung "I've been to Redwood, I've been to Inglewood?"

Tom D has taken many months to run this thread to ground (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:04 (six years ago) Permalink

Weird...for some reason, I remember seeing him credited with "lead guitar" on one song, but can't remember where I saw that. Also, wikipedia sez Jim Gordon played drums on "The Daily Planet," but I coulda sworn it was Hal Blaine (sounds more like Blaine anyway).

shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:04 (six years ago) Permalink

The sessions began in June 1967, with the group (except for Lee and Maclean) replaced by well-known Los Angeles session musicians Billy Strange (guitar), Don Randi (piano), Hal Blaine (drums) and most likely Carol Kaye (bass). This studio line-up was put in place due to the regular line-up's alleged inability to function. The two tracks recorded during these sessions, "Andmoreagain" and "The Daily Planet", were later given sparing overdubs by the actual members of Love, who felt the tracks otherwise sufficed.
Botnick recalls that the use of session musicians "sparked" the band, and they "realized they had blown it, got their act together and recorded the rest of the album". After much rehearsal, the group resumed work in August and continued through September, quickly laying down the remaining nine tracks, with a total estimated cost at $2,257.

tylerw, Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:06 (six years ago) Permalink

i think i read an interview with carol kaye where someone asked her if she played on forever changes and she just laughed and said "honey i played on a lot of records." she may have also claimed to be the bass player on most of the buffalo springfield records!

tylerw, Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:07 (six years ago) Permalink

Not sure about Blaine or Jim Gordon, I thought the band played on all the tracks after they'd stopped crying and straightened themselves up (for the duration of the recording of the album that is, then it was back to bad habits after it) (xxp)

Tom D has taken many months to run this thread to ground (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:07 (six years ago) Permalink

"Listen Echols, I don’t understand how you can stay in one range through the whole thing. You’re the one who says you can blow in the studio, man."

Tom D has taken many months to run this thread to ground (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:12 (six years ago) Permalink

xxp

Ah, so that's where I read it: further up on the wikipedia page! It's confusingly contradicted by listing Gordon further down, but it definitely sounds like Blaine.

shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:16 (six years ago) Permalink

guess both of those guys would be contenders for LA session drummers at the time.

tylerw, Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:17 (six years ago) Permalink

Didn't know about Kaye's claim to have played on the Springfield's records...then again, she also claimed to have been the bassist on all the Motown hits, despite mountains of evidence and documentation to the contrary.

shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:22 (six years ago) Permalink

yeah should be taken with a grain of salt. i know she played on some of those records -- "expecting to fly" for sure.

tylerw, Thursday, 2 June 2011 15:31 (six years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

For a laugh there's Plastic Nancy
She's real fancy with her children
They'll go far, she
Buys them toys to
Keep in practice
Waiting on the war

o_O

buzza, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 07:26 (four years ago) Permalink

That Arthurly could sure write a lyric

Tom D is secretly an important person (Tom D.), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 12:12 (four years ago) Permalink

I FEEL REAL PHONY WHEN MY NAME IS PHIL

xanthanguar (cwkiii), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 15:48 (four years ago) Permalink

or is that bill?

Mark G, Wednesday, 19 December 2012 20:00 (four years ago) Permalink

And "Red Telephone" even did the "...count me out (in)" a year before "Revolution 1"

Faster than food (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 19 December 2012 22:30 (four years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

This is such a damn fine album.

Austin, Friday, 26 August 2016 04:57 (one year ago) Permalink

One thing I learned in the last year is that "Alone Again Or" is amazingly straightforward to play on guitar. I had thought it would be some fingerpicked jazz chord nightmare but it's really only 4-5 standard chords and arpeggios. So satisfying to sit down with my limited skills and rip it out.

MatthewK, Friday, 26 August 2016 07:14 (one year ago) Permalink

No capo involved?

I Don't Sound Like Nobodaddy (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 26 August 2016 10:42 (one year ago) Permalink

It's that "EChord" moved up a fret and back again, yeah? The easy "sounds a bit Spanish" strum.

Mark G, Friday, 26 August 2016 10:45 (one year ago) Permalink

The Phrygian Dominant? To get fancy.

I Don't Sound Like Nobodaddy (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 26 August 2016 11:57 (one year ago) Permalink

It's a great album, but one I've maybe played too much at this point. There's really only 'Alone Again Or', 'The Daily Planet' and 'The Red Telephone' that I can listen to without wanting to skip it these days.

the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Friday, 26 August 2016 12:04 (one year ago) Permalink

I've overplayed it too, but don't single out any particular tracks either way.

I Don't Sound Like Nobodaddy (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 26 August 2016 13:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Sorry, just to complete the guitar nerd arc, it's not a shifting E chord exactly. The opening is picking D, D sus 2, D sus 4 (top E melody line runs 2-3-5-3-2-0-2-3-2-0-3-2), then arpeggio F#m barre chord with, then without the barre. Verse is barre F#, G, F#, open Em, A, D, Bm, barre F#, G, then alternate between open A, all open strings 4 times and back to open D!

MatthewK, Friday, 26 August 2016 14:18 (one year ago) Permalink

love this album. but alone again or is such an obvious choice! second and third place tracks are pretty great

F♯ A♯ (∞), Friday, 26 August 2016 19:13 (one year ago) Permalink

then arpeggio F#m barre chord with, then without the barre
What do you mean by without the barre? I thought I heard an Em9 in there when I just tried to play it seconds ago, i.e. an open E min chord with an F# in the D string.

Put Out More Flag Posts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 August 2016 02:52 (one year ago) Permalink

I mean arpeggio 244222 then 044000, I may be wrong but it sounds convincing to me.

MatthewK, Saturday, 27 August 2016 03:52 (one year ago) Permalink

No you are probably right

Put Out More Flag Posts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 August 2016 03:58 (one year ago) Permalink

I mean that is the same chord I was talking about but with a C# on the A string, which makes in even stronger. I guess you could call it in Em13.

Put Out More Flag Posts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 August 2016 12:36 (one year ago) Permalink

"an" not "in"

Put Out More Flag Posts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 August 2016 12:45 (one year ago) Permalink

You're right of course. I was just surprised I could play the thing.

MatthewK, Saturday, 27 August 2016 12:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, I never even bothered to try until last night after you mentioned it.

Put Out More Flag Posts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 August 2016 12:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Do wish somebody would discover some live audio material from this time or earlier. Sounds from reading Michael Stuart Ware that Lee was pretty down on anybody he found recording him though.
Would have been really something if they'd played Monterey and there was footage. Looked for ages as though lee would just pull out of prestige performances without much warning. I think Stuart Ware talks about last minute cancellation of playing in Atlanta or Texas.

There's a fantastic long interview with John Ecchols in an Ugly Things from about 3 years back. In which he places a mixed race band more firmly in its time. Its about as revelatory as the Arthur lee memoir collected as John Einarson's Forever Changes book.

Michael Stuart Ware was the drummer who had also been in Sons of Adam and he wrote a book about a decade back called Behind The Scenes at The Pegasus Carousel which has since been updated. I haven't read the update.

Stevolende, Saturday, 27 August 2016 13:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Very interesting thanks.

Put Out More Flag Posts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 August 2016 13:37 (one year ago) Permalink

top E melody line runs 2-3-5-3-2-0-2-3-2-0-3-2

Not to get finger-nit-picky but I hear, and definitely play, 2-3-5-5-5-3-2-3-2-3-2

all olly murs' lemurs (ledge), Saturday, 27 August 2016 15:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I think ledge is right. It lingers longer on the A and there is no E melody note played.

Put Out More Flag Posts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 August 2016 16:05 (one year ago) Permalink

I also do more travis picking than simple arpeggios and throw in a couple of hammer-ons in there, I'd like to say it's my interpretation but it's what the guy I learnt from on youtube did.

all olly murs' lemurs (ledge), Saturday, 27 August 2016 16:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah mine was just me thinking it out from memory and I fudge that bit anyway I think.

MatthewK, Saturday, 27 August 2016 21:15 (one year ago) Permalink

ten months pass...

i wonder who'll it be tomorrow, you or me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXpXw_DUMxg

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 5 July 2017 19:13 (four months ago) Permalink

<3

timellison, Wednesday, 5 July 2017 20:11 (four months ago) Permalink

four months pass...

just passed 50th anniv about a week back

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:11 (two weeks ago) Permalink

and it still sounds as great as ever

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:27 (two weeks ago) Permalink

this is the time in life when i am living, and i'll face each day with a smile, for the time that i've been given's such a little while, and the things that i must do consist of more than style

\m/

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 00:08 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Undying respect and Love for this album

Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 03:42 (two weeks ago) Permalink

The very same, as well as undying respect for Love in general... Personally, I spin Love, Da Capo and Four Sail as often as Forever Changes ... particularly Four Sail, which I still think is painfully underrated.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 07:09 (two weeks ago) Permalink

The people of clark and hilldale were robbed

Dr X O'Skeleton, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 19:25 (two weeks ago) Permalink

You know, I see a lot of people that like Four Sail, actually. I am certainly one of them!

timellison, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 19:33 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Out Here has a lot of really good songs comparable to those on Four Sail also.

timellison, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 19:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I've gotta listen to Four Sail right this second.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 20:01 (two weeks ago) Permalink

False Start is another great one, with The Everlasting First belonging in the top rank of their oeuvre. Featuring a killer guitar solo by Jimi Hendrix.

kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 20:50 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i like robert montgomery off four sail

anyway, happy birthday forever changes xx

nxd, Thursday, 9 November 2017 10:18 (one week ago) Permalink


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