Tango in the Night POLL (Fleetwood Mac)

"Mystified" is kinda killing me right now.

'Isn't It Midnight' is my jam on this these days.

TA-AN-GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Excellent review Brad

Edge of Seventeen anecdote is blowing my mind

It's hilarious that ten years later not a single poster has admitted to voting for "Welcome to the Room................Sara."

I will say this about it: as dire as the song is, it features Stevie's best performance on the record by a fair distance. The writing bears her trademark phrasing – and her singing is far more invested (and subsequently less manipulated by Lindsay). Which makes a certain amount of sense given that it's about the most relevant thing in her life at the time: drugs, rehab and isolation.

It's her only complete performance. She didn't write "Seven Wonders" and didn't finish "When I See You Again." She's there and not-there on this album in a way that astonishes me.

For me, it's never really mattered that Nicks contributed relatively little to this record, since McVie's and Buckingham's contributions are so potent.

(then again, Nicks always was my least favourite of the three songwriters)

Mine as well, tho Stevie's best moments—"Sara," "Gypsy," "Dreams," "Storms"—are undoubtedly really good, even if I sometimes question how much of what I like about them is wedded their arrangements and production.

I disagree. Her songs are often the weakest but no way in hell would I want a Fleetwood Mac without her. She's peculiar: one of the few singer-songwriters who is both the most conventional, kitschiest member (Eagles fetish, New Age crap) and the weirdest vision.

otoh Buckingham is often a better arranger and producer and singer than songwriter; often his songs are about nothing and aren't anything except their arrangements. He's at best coaxing and shaping great songs out of McVie and Nicks.

*and HAS the weirdest vision

i mean i disagree too but that's bc her mac-oriented songs are all knockouts until mirage, which has "gypsy" anyway

I agree that Buckingham works wonders on McVie's and Nicks' material, it's partly the reason why McVie's tracks sound so utterly magnificent on Tango, and partly the reason why Nicks was able to get away with phoning it in.

I can't wait to hear what the Buckingham-McVie record sounds like, although I still see no reason why it shouldn't be put out as a Fleetwood Mac record.

stevie's songs can be really digressive but it's a good counterpoint to the precision of buckingham and mcvie, she gets adventurous in a way they do not

With maybe one exception, her songs on Say You Will are her best on a Mac record since Tusk.

I can't wait to hear what the Buckingham-McVie record sounds like, although I still see no reason why it shouldn't be put out as a Fleetwood Mac record.

― Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Tuesday, March 14, 2017

I bet Nicks and her lawyers rewrote her contract so that Fleetwood Mac isn't "Fleetwood Mac" without her. She's the star.

With maybe one exception, her songs on Say You Will are her best on a Mac record since Tusk.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 5:38 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed. (what's the exception? "illume" is p dull imo)

Yep. Classic Nicks example of wandering in search of a melody.

otoh "Running Through the Garden"! "Goodbye Baby"! The title track! "Thrown Down"!

Mine as well, tho Stevie's best moments—"Sara," "Gypsy," "Dreams," "Storms"—are undoubtedly really good, even if I sometimes question how much of what I like about them is wedded their arrangements and production.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:26 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, the best of Stevie's stuff really is genuinely great - 'Sara' for me being the pinnacle of her songwriting for Fleetwood Mac, and I really love 'Sisters of the Moon' and 'Gold Dust Woman' ... I'd still rank her as my third favourite songwriter in this incarnation of Fleetwood Mac, vastly preferring McVie's well crafted pop and Buckingham's stuff like 'That's All For Everyone', 'Go Your Own Way', 'What Makes You Think You're The One', his tracks on Tango...

On the Enchanted box set she includes a couple of demos of her best '90s songs ("Sweet Girl," "Twisted"), on which she and another guitarist (Jesse Vanenzuela on one!) play all the instruments and guess what -- the chord changes and melodies are all hers and survived intact. It's possible she was a better recordmaker by the '90s, but I'm reluctant to give Buck the lion's share of the credit for making her listenable; there's a faint whiff of misogyny.

stevie's songs can be really digressive but it's a good counterpoint to the precision of buckingham and mcvie, she gets adventurous in a way they do not

― the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:38 AM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Adventurous like on the stock '70s California soft rock of 'Angel' or adventurous like on the stock '70s California soft rock of 'I Don't Wanna Know' ... or adventurous like the meandering, take-your-time-getting-somewhere '70s California soft rock of 'Storms' or 'Beautiful Child'? The latter two which neither have the pop hooks of McVie's material or are as interesting as Buckingham's material?

"I Don't Wanna Know" is as precise as any McVie!

agreed with alfred on the faint whiff of misogyny

"Storms" doesn't sound like Nicolette Larson, Carly Simon, Kenny Loggins, or however you define California soft rock.

and I haven't even mentioned the half dozen great solo songs on which Buckingham is nowhere near

we could also talk about "silver springs" which has like two choruses and sounds enormous in a way that basically no other rumours track does

I think Stevie is just one of those songwriters who does her best work bouncing off someone else. There's nothing wrong with that. She's not a typical singer-songwriter, more like Madonna.

"beautiful child" wanders and builds itself up block by block as much as "sara" and every time she sings "i am not a child anymore" it sounds like years have passed

^^^ yes. And her timbre changes!

I can't believe we're re-litigating Nicks' contributions. I got no problem with someone ranking her last among the three, but to call her flaws worse than McVie's homilies or Buckingham's formalist vacuity misses the point of a band complementing its members' strengths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKIC_Kza4Ek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPEhIoKeTg0

0s, but I'm reluctant to give Buck the lion's share of the credit for making her listenable; there's a faint whiff of misogyny.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, March 15, 2017 12:49 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm not reluctant in the least - it's a well known fact that Buckingham did a great deal of arranging and production on the others songs - just check the album credits, or even accounts from the band members themselves. A chord progression and a melody is one thing, but a great arrangement and production can give life to something that can be unremarkable at its core.

Sure, but that's no more the case with McVie or Buckingham's songs. She's not a lesser songwriter b/c her songs needed the glittering arrangements as much as her colleague did.

alfred relentless otm

relentlessly*

pretend i linked to another fleetwood mac thread where ppl marveled over her piano demo for "gypsy". her songs are not just arrangements

(i make the argument that "seven wonders" is but it's not her song!)

No, she's a lesser songwriter, at least in my opinion, because neither do I think she's as great at the pop hooks at McVie is, but nor do I find her material as interesting as Buckingham's. Like I've said, the best of her material is truly great, but when it comes down to it the majority of my Fleetwood Mac highlights come from the others.

(and I'm about as interested in Nicks' solo stuff about as much as a cow is interested in becoming a burger)

you're crazy, belladonna is almost perfect

Diehard Mac fans have seen the clip from the SYW making-of documentary in which Buckingham at his most passive aggressive and smug explains why it's bad that she changes verb tenses in a song. Nicks, annoyed, replies, "Would you tell Bob Dylan his verb tenses are wrong?"

My larger point is that Nicks, like Dylan, is not an instrumentalist: she uses a piano or guitar as tools instead of weapons that need mastering. If you like her less than McVie or Buckingham as personage and songwriter, I get it and I won't argue...but she's not a lesser songwriter b/c she can't play piano as well as McVie or guitar as well as Buck.

idk i'm finding turrican's argument that nicks is a lesser songwriter just bc she is neither christine mcvie or lindsey buckingham super convincing

(and I'm about as interested in Nicks' solo stuff about as much as a cow is interested in becoming a burger)

― Coolio Iglesias (Turrican),

I'm not sure this is the appropriate metaphor to use for a woman whom male critics have called, for example, a mooncalf.

she can also write circles around the two of them lyrically

Has anyone heard the whole of McVie's 1984 solo album? "Got a Hold on Me" is certainly great. Bucky plays guitar on that one, but who is Todd Sharp, the other guitarist/writer? This sounds like Tom Petty, or maybe Bryan Adams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb5mjCHNKLs

The album's a tuneful bore. I do love a track called "The Smile I Live For."

I remember a time on ILX when McVie got the flak as the Dull One.

idk, also, what a great melodic detour the bridge of "gypsy" is

There's nothing wrong with not being a technically great instrumentalist, plenty of great songs have been written by people that are not particularly great instrumentalists. But that's not what we're talking about - we're talking about songwriting, and I find Nicks' songs don't hit my pleasure centre in the way the others songs do, for reasons I've already stated.

tbh the Mac could've prevented an ILM meltdown by crediting every member like they smartly did on "The Chain."