Bands you keep trying to like but can't get into

I mean, there's a zillion drummers I'd rate higher than Ginger Baker, but Watts isn't one of them.

in a world where instead of music there is just drummer magazine

"Toad"'s a banger before EC & JB drop out, it's true.

I guess I'll be Cap'n Save-A-Relf here and say ARMAGEDDON.

'I'm Free' is a decent Stones song until Watts ruins it.

I'm with the anti-Ginger Baker contingent, sadly. I used to like a few things he played on - the collaboration with Fela, the trio with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden, the "No Material" group with Peter Brötzmann and Sonny Sharrock - but have changed my mind after revisiting his work just in the last few months; "thuddy and lacking in soul" and "A Drummer Trying To Play Jazz" pretty much nail him.

I can't really get into any of the white straight blues bands of that era either -- they birthed good people but just weren't very interesting themselves.

Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac can be pretty magical. Sometimes he sounds like the only white blues player of his era that "gets it."

I like Ginger Baker's Africa stuff. Anyone ever see this Cream clip where it seems/sounds like clean-tone Clapton was forbidden any fuzz or whatever?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX1lH0VQRaA

I guess I'll be Cap'n Save-A-Relf here and say ARMAGEDDON

Best Led Zep rip-off band of the 70s! I'd rather listen to Relf than Plant any day.

Watts didn't struggle to stay in time, he played behind the beat

Baker with Fela is probably his best work, but I still prefer Fela with just Tony Allen

Watts didn't struggle to stay in time, he played behind the beat

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, May 21, 2019 11:49 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Exactly. And sometimes he sped up ("Honky Tonk Women"), sometimes he slowed down ("Get Off My Cloud") -- but there was no "struggle." The tempo breathed with the music.

it's best not to engage with turrican on this topic, there's like 100 posts in the rank the sticky fingers songs thread of this exact argument

I mean, dig Ollie Brown here. He speeds up, he slows down, and the music is so much more exciting for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4S9ke31JDA

Watts didn't struggle to stay in time, he played behind the beat

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, May 21, 2019 3:49 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) BookmarkFlag Post Permalink

He both played behind the beat and struggled to stay in time.

Watts' playing is so lumpen, it feels like he's playing with drumsticks that weigh the same as a pair of hammers but have the response of a light flick, and every time he goes in for a fill, it feels like he does the first hit and then suddenly it's like "uh, what do I do next?" and then he wings it in the most shonky way.

your posting is lumpen

I thought ILX was down with the proletariat.

this thread is making me hongro

I've no idea why, since I like rhythm, and this is a discussion about who is or who isn't good at it.

So many jazz drummers keep slating Charlie Watts

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f5/d6/1e/f5d61e27f9304ecd07a89a2fbbc749df--charlie-watts-the-rolling-stones.jpg

i don't understand the fuss he's just bad at rhythm dude. he is empirically not good at rhythm why don't people understand that

I love the Ginger Baker/Fela record and like the album he did with Masters of Reality.

He's a colossal dick, ofc.

thought it was funny when he did this and just picked 13 albums he played on

https://thequietus.com/articles/10797-ginger-baker-baker-s-dozen-favourite-albums

hey, it is called "Baker's Dozen"

lol. I mean only *half* of them are albums he played on, but still

Also funny that he disses Mitch Mitchell, who is a much more fluid player with a much better sense of jazz (but didn't have the ego to think he was an actual legit jazz drummer)

Meanwhile, here's Baker thudding it up with Haden and Frisell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql6iGLZL14w

Classic or thud.

1969 Life magazine feature on Elvin Jones:

https://tinyurl.com/y54wk93x

Curious to know what the patriarch of the new percussionists would think of his adoring progeny, I paid Jones a visit next day in his cheerful little flat on Manhattan's West Side. Sipping beer out of a jelly jar clinking with ice cubes, he listened with closed eyes and bent, perspiring forehead while I spun discs by the Who and Blind Faith and Santana. The Afro-Cuban rockers he dug, but mostly as musical wallpaper. Keith Moon's drumming during the "Underture" of Tommy produced appreciative comments: "See there, where the tempo started to die, how he picked it up! The man is a drummer. Everything they play, he contains it."

Only Ginger Baker, of the now defunct Blind Faith, got the strong put-down. Raising his head after an ominously silent hearing of "Do What You Like," with its enormously long drum solo, Jones growled: "Nothing happenin'. Cat's got delusions of grandeur with no grounds. They should make him an astronaut and lose his ass!"

Ha, was wondering when it would get to that quote.

Too right, he damn near ruins that album.

I'm checking out "Do What You Like" right now... haven't even gotten to the drum solo yet, and ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz....

lollll that's awesome, never read that before - love his take on Moon as well

Man, this bass solo is rough. Guess the drum solo must be next....

Yes, and then Elvin Jones went on to perform with Ginger Baker's Air Force.

I forgot about this Yardbirds song "Shapes of Things" -- it's a great one for sure

xpost

definitely rare to hear of a jazz player holding their nose and playing on some rock or pop bullshit for a good check

Ginger Baker *and* Tony Williams play on Album by PiL!

charlie watts is a hero for refusing to play the hi hat & snare at the same time. he put more swagger in the backbeat than anyone.

it's just a bummer he doesn't have rhythm

geez louise is there some kind of concerted campaign to troll drummers about charlie watts? wtf

I wouldn't worry about it, Turrican is determined to mention how much he hates Charlie Watts in as many threads as possible.

just Turrican doing his thing from what I can tell xp

my comment was in earnest btw, I love the stones & charlie watts specifically

i'm not worried, i just think it's weird
is "being wrong about how rhythm works" his thing? that's weird!

Not going there!

LL I was not being serious up there

charlie watts is a hero for refusing to play the hi hat & snare at the same time. he put more swagger in the backbeat than anyone.

― :∵·∴·∵: (crüt), Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:32 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Swagger? He looks stiff as fuck when he's drumming, and you can hear it.

itt turrican finally unmasked as Kenny Jones

i can see why you might think that re: stiffness, but i disagree.

Kenney Jones was a great drummer, particularly on the stuff Small Faces did for Immediate.

I'd rate Kenney Jones, Mitch Mitchell and Mick Avory all higher than Ginger Baker, actually.