R.E.M. news - yay

But it sounds nothing like Stumble.

It's not that want to discount your theory - it is quite interesting to think about artists making references to earlier work - but too often these naggingly familiar new REM tunes come across as slightly lazy retreads rather than ludic allusions to their back catalogue.

I actually thunk it sounds most like "Belong" from OOT.

i think it has the spirit of that song, too; patti's "cinderella boy, you've lost your shoe" bit is somewhat similar in sentiment to the mother whispering to her child "belong"

stew, "blue" closes with a coda that's a ludic allusion to the first song on the record. might that not suggest further referentiality? i only consider that, again, because michael has so often offered inspired lyrical moments over the years

Lept out at me like E-bow meets Country Feedback. Sorry.

But don't you see! The lyrics are totally different!

not to be obnoxious, but would you say that about hip hop? REM's a band whose lyrics are pretty important overall to how they've been celebrated over the years, wouldn't you say? i mean, first it was michael mumbles, you can't understand him, then it was, wow, he's a poet! i guess all i'm saying is, to beat a dead horse, it's kind of shallow to limit discussions of how song X on 'collapse into now' is a retread of song Y on another one of their major label albums, as though the IRS REM is a different band. i mean, i keep reading how "all the best" is a 'rock song,' like what's on 'monster,' as though "just a touch" doesn't even exist. i like REM enough that i'd appreciate a bit more perspective when i read reviews of their albums, that's all

The reason that Stumble doesn't get mentioned in reference to Blue is that the two songs are NOTHING ALIKE.

they don't SOUND alike. there's a spoken word thing in each, and each concludes its respective sets of songs. i really don't care enough to keep pointing that out, so whatever

Reprising the riff of the opening song at the end of an album is fairly common: Sgt Pepper being a famous example. And it works quite nicely on Collapse, taking things full circle. But I think the stumble thing is a coincidence. There are several spoken word REM songs which don't end albums. Furthermore, Stumble doesn't sound anything like Blue. Its spoken word section isn't what you immediately remember about it - you remember the tune and the fast, stumbling rhythm.
As I said, the intertext idea is interesting, but with REM it's a tricky one. They certainly have songs that self-consciously revisit elements of earlier ones - it's impossible to think of Strange Currencies without thinking of Everybody Hurts. But all too often they're rehashing old tricks, trading on the familiarity. In some respect they're playing to their strengths, but it does seem a little lazy, even cynical.

they don't SOUND alike. there's a spoken word thing in each

Perhaps the reviewers should have been mentioning 9-9 and Belong as well, for the sake of completeness?

This is all way too "intertextual" for my liking. Why would you want to listen to most of these songs when you could listen to the better versions from 10+ years ago?

"me, marlon brando, marlon and i" is "intertextual" with neil's "pocahontas." michael's updating the refrain from the last song on the last great album they made with bill, new adventures, "20th century go to sleep." "hipster town" and "collapse into now" are the last words spoken, stamping their first EP and this latest album, though sure "chronic town" is a better name. i could see how none of that's interesting though if you're just hearing a retread

-- reggie (michaelstipe)

Still really enjoying this record, Uberlin and, uh, Mine Smell Like Honey especially. Definitely seems like their most consistent and filler-free since Automatic.

Heard "Mine Smell Like Honey" on the radio for the first time (haven't heard the album yet), and while I enjoyed it fine, I was really struck by its ... genericness? Just a general lack of inspiration, I guess. I mean, not offensively so, but it still sounded kind of pro forma to me.

Surprised by how much I like this. Some serious auto-plagiarism going on but that's OK. The good thing about them having made Around the Sun is that everything since is an improvement.

Silver lining.

I've got this theory that the reason there is so much interesting stuff going on in earlier R.E.M. is that the constant tour/record/tour cycle more or less forced the band to accept the odder or more unusual aspects to their (rushed) songs and move on. Whereas now the band has the luxury of hammering away at things in the studio until all the quirky character edges get sanded off. Like, I wish I could hear more of Buck's guitar and not all the effects it's going through. I wish it didn't sound like it was all quantized to a click track. I wish the band threw in a few musical wrenches (and no, hiring Peaches doesn't count). Since "Up" (which would have been a sound swan song) R.E.M. albums have been light on inspiration or general reason to be. I mean, I heard "Nightswimming" for the first time in a while yesterday and I thought, jeez, what a simple, beautiful, unfussy song. It may have taken 100 attempts, but it may as well have been a perfect first take.

Basically, the band needs a vision.

Basically, the band needs a vision.

OTM x100.

Lack of "general reason to be" has definitely been the problem since Up at least so at this stage of the game I don't even expect it - soldily pleasurable is enough. The sound of Accelerate was obviously designed to signal hunger and renewed energy but it didn't make the record any more essential. The needy titles are beginning to remind me of Sly Stone's later albums though - Accelerate! Collapse Into Now! We Still Got It!

soldily pleasurable is enough
haven't heard this new one yet, but this is otm. Since REM were such a BIG band people have high expectations, but I think of them now in the realm of, i don't know, the new Steve Wynn album. it's not gonna be an *important* album or anything, but it might be good, who knows?

The lyrics to All the Best seem pretty knowing in this context:

"It's just like me to overstay my welcome man
Let's sing it and rhyme
Let's give it one more time
Let's show the kids how to do it fine, fine, fine, fine"

"Oh My Heart" has no reason to exist except to remind me of how awesome "E-Bow The Letter" and the second side of Out of Time are.

I have no idea why so many critics have picked that one out as a highlight - it's a snooze. Equally, I really like Blue, which keeps coming in for a kicking.

Apologies if the gist this has been posted previously but REM last 17 album releases have been deemed 'a return to form'. They never fucking have been since the disaster that was Monster.

Apart from All The Way To Reno

Since REM were such a BIG band people have high expectations, but I think of them now in the realm of, i don't know, the new Steve Wynn album. it's not gonna be an *important* album or anything, but it might be good, who knows?

You know, that's not true for me. The highlights of their albums from the last say, fifteen years, whether it's "Electrolite" or "Imitation of Life" or "Leaving New York" or others, have been some of my very favorite music of these times!

sure, i've liked a lot of their stuff from the last decade, but i guess i just don't get too worked up over whether the newest is "a return to form" or a "horrible embarrassment" or w/e. they've made a lot of great music over the years, if an album isn't that hot, no big deal. all part of life's rich tapestry, right?

Life's rich pageant even, one might say.

it's all just new adventures in hi-fi knowwhatimean?

REM "return to form"

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Isn't it just what happens when a) being in a band becomes a career and b) it's lasted long enough that there is no other way for the people involved to find a way of self-definition and c) the career becomes so successful that it actually becomes harder to split, given the number of people who are dependent on REM (or U2, or the Stones or many other bands) for their living. It becomes a grind of trying to find inspiration, sometimes with success sometimes not. I'd guess REM had said everything they needed to say by Automatic, and since then they've been trying to find things to say.

so i haven't wanted to turn this off yet!
(i almost wanted to during the peaches duet)

hey this was OK! just a little generic-y sounding at times.

Pageant next on the reissues list, second CD with 19 demos from '86 including an early take on King Of Birds (although that might be instrumental) and Wait, which iirc from bootlegs is pretty good.

that sounds cool. stil haven't gotten the last two reissues, but i plan to.

I think LRP might be my favourite REM record, but I just don't listen to it as much as say Up.

i go back and forth between 'pageant' and 'fables.' excited for this

If I'm allowed I'll post a tracklisting for the demo's disc later.

I think LRP might be my favourite REM record, but I just don't listen to it as much as say Up.

Wow! Maresnest, I feel exactly the same way! I've always felt like "Up" was made by a different band yet still showcasing what makes REM great.

:) There's something consistently bright, optimistic and headrush-y and also weirdly a bit post-hardcore about it, like those tours with Minutemen got to the core of Buck's songwriting for a while.

Here we go:

Disc Two: The Athens Demos – all previously unreleased
(Recorded March 1986 at John Keane’s Studio, Athens GA)

1. Fall On Me 10. Cuyahoga
2. Hyena 11. I Believe
3. March Song (King Of Birds) 12. Out Of Tune
4. These Days 13. Rotary Ten
5. Bad Day 14. Two Steps Onward
6. Salsa (Underneath The Bunker) 15. Just A Touch
7. Swan Swan H 16. Mystery To Me
8. Flowers Of Guatemala 17. Wait
9. Begin The Begin 18. All The Right Friends
19. Get On Their Way (What If We Give It Away)

Oh jeez..

Disc Two: The Athens Demos – all previously unreleased
(Recorded March 1986 at John Keane’s Studio, Athens GA)

1. Fall On Me
2. Hyena
3. March Song (King Of Birds)
4. These Days
5. Bad Day
6. Salsa (Underneath The Bunker)
7. Swan Swan H
8. Flowers Of Guatemala
9. Begin The Begin
10. Cuyahoga
11. I Believe
12. Out Of Tune
13. Rotary Ten
14. Two Steps Onward
15. Just A Touch
16. Mystery To Me
17. Wait
18. All The Right Friends
19. Get On Their Way (What If We Give It Away)

I love "Cuyahoga" so much.

1) "Let's put our heads together & start a new country up"---been feeling this a lot lately; & Stipe sounds so earnest about it, a totally suitable attitude imo. I want to do this too.

2) The rush from the third chorus into the bridge ("rewrite the book")---sublime. And the idea goes too far & it dies out, into the opening again.

3) How the rhythm section swings: the opening bass riff gets it started, and then whilst the first verse kinda thuds on the drums, the pre-chorus bit ("this is where we walked...") just dances; and so does the chorus; you could dance to this & it wouldn't be that awkward!

4) "We are not your allies, we cannot defend."

5) Is that feedback on the second verse? Or is that an organ? It adds to the menace, whatever it is. I think there's an electric piano in that second chorus at the end, so it's probably keys. I don't have any session notes handy.

euler you are otm. the whole album's galvanizing. the first two songs are calls to arms

The bridge of Swan Swan H has always been one of my fav rem moments

My main problem with this album is that "What If We Give It Away?" & "Just A Touch" are the worst songs on an REM album until "Ignoreland". I know they're old songs & I love pre-Murmur REM but they don't fit the flow of the album. They'd work ok as singles, though they're still sub-par. The chorus of "What If We Give It Away?" is a whine; & "Just A Touch" doesn't pop like the raver they're envision, plus its chorus sounds like a mishmash of lines ending up in "I Believe" with, well, just a bunch of garbled words---the kind of thing REM haters accuse Stipe of! I'm happy when it ends because that moment of Stipe falling off is a highlight & it leads into a couple of great songs.

"just a touch" works for me like a reassertion of "little america" -- "i can't see myself at 30" to "i'm so young, i'm so goddamn young." never been a huge fan of "what if we give it away" though either

yeah that last bit is the good part of "Just A Touch". They must have been struggling for material to put those two old songs on there.

man "The Flowers of Guatemala" is REM's first power ballad & it's a great one. Another ace bridge! that feedback blast on it is a hook, & then into a rare guitar solo. I'd kinda like to have heard more Mills vocal on it, maybe even a lead or a duet? Stipe hits a few too many drones that I think helixing with Mills could have cured or at least blurred.

maybe we'll hear more mills on the demos?

true! I didn't find the Fables demos to be much of a revelation but tbh I only listened through once & anyway I like the murk of Boyd's production.