Taking Sides: Suicide vs. DAF

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OK I love "Frankie" and everything but I think it's a big unspoken nobody wants to admit that the leather-boho-beatnik thing wore out its welcome ages ago, and the recent sons-of-Suicide would be better off actually committing it, and there's nothing more embarrassing than 50+ types wearing shades and saying "Hey babe", and that conversely the Teutonic homos (I'm guessing, but it would be cooler if they were) seem to have sound better over the years?

dave q, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Of course, if they REALLY wanted to be cause a stink with their beyond-good-und-evil bodyelectric they would've gone "Do the Haider, do the Le Pen", but that's asking a bit too goddam much of anybody and I'm ashamed of myself for even making such a ridiculous demand. "It's allest gut!", as MC Deutsch might say

dave q, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't heard DAF - I bet they're great (from what you said here plus reputation) - but isn't there some kind of Suicide : Fassbinder (old guy in leather jacket and shades who looks like pure disgust and looks GREAT) : maybe, DAF - zeitgeist thing? And if Fassbinder and Alan Vega had looked like young guys in leather jackets, it just wouldn't have come off. I think you have a good point with the fag thing: it's all very Genet, very NOT Mick Jagger wearing a leather jacket - wasn't Fassbinder working on a film version of Querelle when he died? I suppose the gay criminal pose/reality of these people is too obvious to be interesting - yet it's the only beautiful mockery I can think of offhand. Maybe rappers mocking pimps is equivalent. Andy Warhol said, 'I've always really liked plain, and if I hadn't dressed bad, I would have definitely gone for plain.'

maryann, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

What I'd like to know is, what's as good as this now? Who's as knowing? I guess the possibility of having your own secret society of twisted pop art and pop culture adoration is gone (thanks perhaps to the efforts of the above ...) Maybe this fits tangentially with the question, 'who's a good post-nuggets garage band'?

maryann, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I've listened to the first Suicide album a few times recently, and it's pretty cool, great vocals, but the minimalist synth riffs and ridiculously primitive and cheesy drum machine can get a bit boring. Hey can any of the music historians out there tell me who/what these guys are supposed to have influenced? Industrial? They are supposed to be one of those pioneering godfather bands that YOU MUST listen to because they're historically important, right? They don't sound anything like techno.

other Keith, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

How important and influential they are is hard to say, and that is irrelevant to how good the music is. And it's fantastic - I still listen to them frequently. I'm old enough to have seen them live in 1978 or early 1979 when they were comparatively little known and getting bottled off stage regularly. They were wonderful then.

Private joke for Andrew L: they don't sound as good on CD, of course.

Martin Skidmore, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't "get" Suicide. Too much posturing "intense" fashion-rock sunglasses kind of crap, not enough music beyond the fake-me-out third-rate creepiness*.

* Keep in mind that I just posted a short appreciation of Marilyn Manson on another thread so my idea of third-rate creepiness is probably a little skewed.

adam, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Suicide is considered by many to be an influence on many of the synth- pop of the 80s, especially those with a slightly aggressive edge, such as Soft Cell. DAF, on the other hand, seems to have only one obvious spiritual heir, being Nitzer Ebb. While that would seem to be pretty much a wrap, it's also true that Suicide was one of the key influences on Sigue Sigue Sputnik. So, uh. In the end, I still like listening to Suicide, which sounds creepy and raw, as opposed to DAF, which just sounds ham-fisted and cartoony. (I realize that saying this might make Ned cry.)

Sean Carruthers, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I read somewhere that Jason Pierce of Spiritulized was influenced by them. And I suppose there is a vague connection, with the repetition thing.

Lady Space Pilot, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

suicide certainly was an influence on the once mighty snapper.

keith m, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't have enough of each to comment but early DAF was fantastic. I have an early album which has the early configuration of DAF in it (no vocals). Some brilliant 'can't play so we'll smash it and see what comes out' guitar playing with really scary synth. It's very aggressive (can't remeber what it's called).

The first suicide album is just as great, one of the few album that justify the 'wasn't New York punk soo great!' line (both albums clock in at half hour but DAF 'album' has 20-odd tracks in that time slot).

Julio Desouza, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I realize that saying this might make Ned cry.

*beats Sean over head with drum pad* Wrong reaction. ;-)

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Suicide = untouchable
but maybe this thread will help us dig out those DAF records
and figure out where they were OTM

both bands helped bring in the modern minimalism - music + lineup
Suicide's doowop might make them sound dated but it's that eternal 50's heaven ting plus moreghost
DAF sound more intriguing now cos 80's brutal grid music's back in
Front 242 & Nitzer Ebb exhumed for cratediggin' business
what did they have that we lack?

Paul, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Lady Space Pilot, I think the Suicide influence on Jason Pierce is far more apparent in the loud, grimy extended drone-fests that Spacemen 3 used to do.

Still, I've never heard anything quite like the first Suicide record. His voice is incredible, one of my favorite male pop vocalists, right (well, almost) alongside Bryan Ferry, Bowie, etc. And the music is suffocating - nothing beats that chuggy steam sound of the "cheesy" (?) drum machine they used. It fucks up and changes its hiss pitch so often that it kind of sounds more nuanced that a live drummer - it sounds *alive*. I can't believe someone would prefer, like, an 80s Boss drum machine over Suicide's - that is, unless you think all drum machines are cheesy, in which case you are beyond repair! ;-)

Clarke B., Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

(Just for the record, I actually used to like DAF an awful lot, having heard Der Mussolini on the radio once upon an age, at which point I rushed out and bought a few of their albums from the import bins in the BIG CITY, which certainly made it seem a lot more exciting! Most of the other stuff I remember liking from that era in my life doesn't hold the same appeal for me anymore, and knowing what I know about DAF's sound, it's probably better for it to remain in my past with some sense of fondness than put it to the test again.)

Sean Carruthers, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

suicide - first few records amazing, then lost it, vega and rev release quite good solo records but should never have reformed.

daf - first few records amazing, then lost it, delgado and gorl release quite good solo records and thankfully have never reformed.

i bet mute are going to start planning a daf remix project any day now.

stirmonster, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Dave: 50+ year old men wearing shades and saying "Hey, babe" are as plentiful as lice here in America. Yet, Alan Vega still seems very cool to me. Weird.

Christine "Green Leafy Dragon" Indigo, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

duane - if you read this - didn't Dan Mancini get a ride from Alan Vega or something, or meet him, or ...?

maryann, Sunday, 14 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah & he was drunk & he said some corny stuff like "i've had so much sex & taken so many drugs to yr records, yr like the barry white of my world!" I mean *Vega* said that to *Dan*!

OK that's not true.

, Monday, 15 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

five months pass...
REVIVE!

Was just listening to early DAF recently....in particular, "Die Kleinen Und Die Bosen". Dear god, this record is the culmination of the most gutteral and rhythmic eras of Wire, Cabaret Voltaire, and Einsterzende Neubauten all in one. I only wish each side (the studio and live sides, respectively) were expanded each to their own records.

"Ein Produkt.." is fine, too, though it sounds like a cluster diagram or blueprint for a record, more than a record itself. Lots of snippets of great musical ideas that could have become amazing compositions. Anyway, if it's true this record was a big influence on Albini, it makes a lot of sense... the rhythms, the guitar noise, all sound like they're foreshadowing Big Black and Shellac...

The "Der Mussolini" single is pure godhead. An out-of-tune bass synth sequencer commanding a slave drummer, a chorus of cartoon pigs squealing, and a singer who bursts out the names of dictators orgasmically.

I wish the rest of the three "sex" albums could match "Der Mussolini" but they don't... though there are some great moments there. And yeah, Nitzer Ebb pretty much made a five finger discount of the musical and fashion ideas from this era from DAF and ran with it.

Destroy anything post early 80s/post Mute.

donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 1 October 2002 17:17 (seventeen years ago) link

''"Ein Produkt.." is fine, too, though it sounds like a cluster diagram or blueprint for a record, more than a record itself. Lots of snippets of great musical ideas that could have become amazing compositions. Anyway, if it's true this record was a big influence on Albini, it makes a lot of sense... the rhythms, the guitar noise, all sound like they're foreshadowing Big Black and Shellac...''

that's an interesting connection. I never made it myself because I think it's such a rough record. the idea is not to expand on anything. I love it. love the fact they don't flesh anything out in songs, whereas shellac/albini always do so...

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 October 2002 17:36 (seventeen years ago) link

two words - kebab traume!

stirmonster, Tuesday, 1 October 2002 17:44 (seventeen years ago) link

foreshadowing Big Black - see Metal Urbain.

hstencil, Tuesday, 1 October 2002 19:54 (seventeen years ago) link

five years pass...

Osten Währt am Längsten

blunt, Monday, 28 July 2008 04:44 (eleven years ago) link

six months pass...

fuckfuckfuckfuck:

Düsseldorf's notoriously risqué DAF are set to play four live dates in support of a new compilation.

DAF's provocative and sexually-charged electronic punk paved the way for EBM acts such as Die Krupps and Nitzer Ebb, and they're constantly cited as one of the groups that helped to push edgier electronic sounds into the limelight. It's now been thirty years since the release of their Ein Produkt der Deutsch-Amerikanischen Freundschaft album, and the outfit have decided to regroup for a handful of dates to celebrate the occasion. While the performances won't feature the band's original line-up, both Robert Görl and Gabi Delgado-Lopez (who became the core members following the departure of Chrislo Haas and Wolfgang Spelmans in 1981) will be present for the shows, which includes their first UK date in 25 years.

The current run of shows begin in Hamburg and Leipzig at the end of this month, with March dates planned for both Venice and London. The short tour precedes the release of a new Best Of release, which will be entitled Das Beste Von DAF - 20 Lieder der Deutsch Amerikanischen Freundschaft. This isn't their first reunion, however, as Görl and Delgado-Lopez briefly got back together in 1985 for 1st Step to Heaven and again in 2003 for Fünfzehn Neue D.A.F-Lieder. Speaking about the recent run of dates, Görl has stated that "a reunion of DAF was always in the air—it was only a matter of time." UK fans will be glad to know that after two decades, they'll be able to end their excruciating wait for a DAF live show at Islington Academy on March 28th.

Tracklist
01. Greif nach den Sternen
02. Sex unter Wasser
03. Der Mussolini
04. Ich Will
05. Verschwende Deine Jugend
06. Alle gegen Alle
07. Was ziehst Du an heute Nacht
08. Rote Lippen
09. Sato Sato
10. Ein bisschen Krieg
11. Die Götter sind Weiss
12. Im Dschungel der Liebe
13. Verlieb dich in mich
14. Der Räuber und der Prinz
15. Ich und die Wirklichkeit
16. Verehrt euren Haarschnitt
17. Goldenes Spielzeug
18. Als wärs das letzte mal
19. Liebe auf den ersten Blick
20. Prinzessin

The Grey Area of Mute will release Das Beste Von DAF - 20 Lieder der Deutsch Amerikanischen Freundschaft on April 21, 2009.

Feb 27 DAF, Uebel & Gefährlich, Hamburg
Feb 28 DAF, Lagerhof, Leipzig
Mar 14 DAF, Fucina Controvento, North
Mar 28 DAF, Islington Academy, London

http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=10246

rio (r1o natsume), Friday, 20 February 2009 10:57 (eleven years ago) link

eleven years pass...

Gabi Delgado has left us :-(

stirmonster, Monday, 23 March 2020 20:44 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfNLORw7r_M

RIP

See also here:15 Neue DAF Lieder

No mean feat. DaBaby (breastcrawl), Monday, 23 March 2020 23:28 (two weeks ago) link


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