pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

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Donald
Oh my God, what just happened at P-Fork
Mon Apr 1 07:08:25 2002
63.167.209.146

I'm not going to spew any elitist bullshit, but Alanis Morrissette, Kylie Minogue? Oh my fucking God. I'll stay for a little while to see if P-Fork still serves my needs, but with today's front page, I'm not counting on it. I understand the career move, but I just don't think it's going to serve me any more.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

stu Re: Oh my God, what just happened at P-Fork Mon Apr 1 07:41:08 2002 65.92.243.96

I wonder if it's going to serve anyone's needs. I don't think a web- only publication can attract readers interested in Alanis Morissette and Kylie Minogue. To my knowledge, no one actually hunts down information about such artists. People just hear about it on tv and that's it. Let's give Pitchfork a few months, until the corporate contributors pull the plug.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I am very disappointed. Could they have made it any more obvious? COME ON, PEOPLE.

David Raposa, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think a web- only publication can attract readers interested in Alanis Morissette and Kylie Minogue.

QUOTE OF THE YEAR.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

What makes me think that things will be back to normal by tomorrow? ;)

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know Sean... it would be April 2nd, which would make it one day after...

Andy K, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

You scalawags, you make me laff. Perhaps.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Speaking of which, HEY NED! My Bloody Valentine are finally releasing their new album!

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

We thought about that as one of the news items.

Dare, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"i for one will not be returning to this site if you're seriously going to be reviewing alanis. like i can't read that shit everywhere and anywhere? the reason i had pitchfork as my home page was because i could actually find out about the shit i care about. i'm glad you can pay your rent now, it's too bad that you sold out your millions of readers for britney fans in body glitter to do it."

Dare, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

pitchfork as your homepage, classic or dud?

the first thing i thought (after, well, this is no all cure all the time) was that i wished they really had "sold out" (what the fuck, is this 93?), because maybe it would mean LESS GODDAMN PROG.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

he's calling you out, leone. FITE!

Todd Burns, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I think I'd rather read about Alanis and Kylie than most of the stuff they normally review.

Sean, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Their funniest joke came months ago.

Nicole, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know what all you fools are talking about... I only WISH all of it were true.

Well, the Albini thing practically is...

mr. sparkle, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

We thought about that as one of the news items.

Makes sense, really.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know what all you fools are talking about... I only WISH all of it were true.

Well, the Albini thing practically is... huh???

Brock K., Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

LESS GODDAMN PROG

So, does that mean we'll write about the next Radiohead album, or not?

dleone, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

And that Flaming Lips thing actually is true. I think.

powertonevolume, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Hein? Is the joke that Pitchfork reviewed some pop musik?? Even their KYLIE review was as dull as www.defra.gov.uk/farm/sustain/default.htm ARRRGHHHHHHHHH!! Then again Pitchfork = dull is a big shocker along the lines of Nelson in COLUMN!!!!!! shocker.

Sarah, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

'On' column? 'HAS' column?! I can see him from my bladdy window but does that help my BRANE I think NICHT.

Sarah, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Dom, how much of the Kylie review was farce? "The song exudes a catchiness that belies its inherent simplicity, so reassuring during an era when chart acts sound increasingly baroque and producers race to see who can ape electronic music trends first" sounds at least semi-serious.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

that is because kylie is, like sophie ellis bextor, going for a retro- mancuso/levan vibe, with all the classicism inherent in such an endeavour.

gareth, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually, I did try to write about that record in the same way I would have for anything else at Pitchfork. I thought the gag would be better if people really thought we were changing styles, and Spin may be full of ads, but at least the reviews aren't jokes! As far as I know, anyway. Dullness wasn't intentional though.

dleone, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

best e-mail address ever, eh starbar?

dudley, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Dead right sir. Power shandies all round to the geezer behind it eh?

Sarah, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

From: DWilliams@EQRWORLD.com Subject: NO, Just Admit You Like It Up There

You have completed your learning of life's lessons. Now, you suck ass just like all the other bores before you. Kylie, Alanis? Whatever, bitch. I am sure you already have the defense mechanisms in place so, this will mean nothing but, another exercise in...oh, who cares. Looking elsewhere for reality...or maybe I can pretend to be a rubber worm like pitchwhore.com...here big fishie, look, I rounded 'em up for you in a arrel. A whole demographic!

Not Funny

Dare, Thursday, 4 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

five years pass...

Y'know sometimes they really are asking for it:

"White Williams issues a debut album layered with impeccable influences-- including Roxy Music, Beck, and T. Rex-- and a sense of calculated disaffection."

Well shit SIGN ME UP.

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 18:57 (eleven years ago) link

Yeah, that was a bit of a repellant blurb if I ever saw one.

Z S, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:01 (eleven years ago) link

Wait, are you saying that doesn't seem accurate?

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:10 (eleven years ago) link

I read 'White' as 'While' and thought "The Saul Williams album sounds like that?"

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:11 (eleven years ago) link

it's more that they used that as their _hook_

x-post

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:20 (eleven years ago) link

The front blurbs are always stripped/condensed summary descriptions from the review inside -- in this case

His songs are thin and languorous, with impeccable influences and the sort of calculated disaffection that comes from an MFA in design and a good weed connection.

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:46 (eleven years ago) link

omg that is horrorshow

The blurb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article quote

HI DERE, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:18 (eleven years ago) link

I assume that's an article quote; nabisco, if you just made that up then SHAME ON YOU.

HI DERE, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:22 (eleven years ago) link

why would a critic ever try to guess where a song comes from?

Mr. Que, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:23 (eleven years ago) link

I'm more bothered by beck as impeccable influence

dmr, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:24 (eleven years ago) link

Wait, are you saying that doesn't seem accurate?

The description of "a sense of calculated disaffection", a combination of words that makes me imagine the shittiest band of all time, followed by "recommended" was repellant for me. I guess I like my disaffection to be natural, not carefully planned, so I would never recommend something like that.

Then again, I've never heard it so what do I know and so on.

Z S, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:29 (eleven years ago) link

b-but someone at pfork said "hm, how can we get people to read this review? I know! we'll mention the artist's impeccable influences and calculated disaffection! that'll reel 'em in!"

RIP satire etc

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:34 (eleven years ago) link

they could have collaged+mis-used _anything_ from the article, and they collaged+mis-used that

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:35 (eleven years ago) link

The White Williams album reminds me much more of late 10cc and Bread than of Roxy Music. That bit was like the classic "Let's over-hip our influences" review.

I eat cannibals, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:54 (eleven years ago) link

The description of "a sense of calculated disaffection", a combination of words that makes me imagine the shittiest band of all time, followed by "recommended" was repellant for me.

See, this sounds like the blurb WORKED for you -- i.e., efficiently let you know you would probably not like this act.

I agree, though, it looks kind of weird to have such a neutral-to-disparaging summary blurb on a recommended album.

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 22:04 (eleven years ago) link

I like how they gave the new Babyshambles, which is actually tuneful and a good all around album, a 4.0, but gave the first one, which is dreadful and hard to listen to / bloated, a 7.3,

Yeah, it was definitely TWICE as good as the new one. Fuckin' morons.

Erock Zombie, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:30 (eleven years ago) link

ugh, "impeccable influences" is really repulsive.

Hurting 2, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:46 (eleven years ago) link

(xpost) was that a parody or are you really getting worked up about an internet score for babyshambles

dmr, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:47 (eleven years ago) link

He was worked up?

roxymuzak, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:49 (eleven years ago) link

wait, i thought the grading scale was logarithmic. like 5 is twice as good as 4. somebody email ryan schreiber to find out.

elan, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:14 (eleven years ago) link

shit, now i need to reevaluate all my purchases of the last five years.

elan, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:16 (eleven years ago) link

It's actually modelled after the Richter Scale, hence the superlative designations of various well-reviewed albums as either "Reccomended," "Best New Music," or "Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On."

Alex in Baltimore, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:24 (eleven years ago) link

if they're gonna go for critically reviled but incredibly popular women to rehabilitate as feminist icons they should do Cher next

Οὖτις, Monday, 19 August 2019 19:35 (four days ago) link

I don't think Ronstadt was reviled so much as overlooked and unexamined for years (I can think only of that John Rockwell essay in Stranded]).

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2019 19:39 (four days ago) link

Linda Ronstadt was critically reviled?

brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2019 19:41 (four days ago) link

She was reviled for playing Sun City.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 19 August 2019 19:43 (four days ago) link

Christgau:

Silk Purse [Capitol, 1970] B
Linda Ronstadt [Capitol, 1972] B-
Don't Cry Now [Asylum, 1973] C+
Different Drum [Capitol, 1974] B-
Heart Like a Wheel [Capitol, 1974] A-
Prisoner in Disguise [Asylum, 1975] B
Hasten Down the Wind [Asylum, 1976] B-
Greatest Hits [Asylum, 1976] B+
A Retrospective [Capitol, 1977] B+
Simple Dreams [Asylum, 1977] B+
Living in the U.S.A. [Asylum, 1978] B
Mad Love [Asylum, 1980] B-
Get Closer [Asylum, 1982] C+
What's New [Asylum, 1983] C-

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 19 August 2019 19:47 (four days ago) link

overlooked and unexamined

sure, that works

Οὖτις, Monday, 19 August 2019 19:56 (four days ago) link

IIRC, Elvis Costello didn't like Ronstadt's covers of his songs

Ward Fowler, Monday, 19 August 2019 20:01 (four days ago) link

he was a huge asshole back then tbf

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 August 2019 20:09 (four days ago) link

he's repented:

https://vimeo.com/162309257

tylerw, Monday, 19 August 2019 20:29 (four days ago) link

Ronstadt's "Alison" >>>>>>>>>>> EC's

Her Costello covers on Mad Love define meh, though.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2019 20:30 (four days ago) link

I stayed at the ZicZoc Rock Hotel in Zurich once, in the cheapest room which was the Joe Cocker room. There was a large picture of Linda Ronstadt on the wall as the main decoration. It was confusing.

Yerac, Monday, 19 August 2019 20:37 (four days ago) link

Hmm, I was just thinking that Costello must've heard "Sorrow Lives Here" before recording "Shot with His Own Gun."

geoffreyess, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 01:19 (three days ago) link

my aim is amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rollingstone.com%2Fmusic%2Fmusic-album-reviews%2Fheart-like-a-wheel-103633%2F

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 02:12 (three days ago) link

You and me both.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 02:19 (three days ago) link

sic I'm posting from my phone gimme A break!

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 04:27 (three days ago) link

xxp -- I did read the thread but no one brought up penzance specifically, and while yes obviously she's not at the level of a professional lyric coloratura (and while it's transposed down), it is still very good for someone who was not trained as an opera singer

like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 13:00 (three days ago) link

I'd completely forgotten about that Penzance performance

brigadier pudding (DJP), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 13:08 (three days ago) link

We watched Penzance with our kid recently and he both really enjoyed the music and humor and also afterwards was asking us what the hell was going on in that story.

omar little, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 14:23 (three days ago) link

xpost to Katherine, Me (as quoted by you) seemingly dissing Ronstadt as a singer was actually me dissing Taylor Swift, I just got my threads mixed up.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 14:40 (three days ago) link

the 'controversy' around p4k not reviewing 1989 has always kinda cracked me up. mainly cause i was asked to do it & said no cause i didn't want the internet to yell at me all week. had i only known the ~cultural implications~...

— Fire Marshal Meaghan (@meaghan_garvey) August 19, 2019

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 14:43 (three days ago) link

I don’t understand any part of that tweet(!)

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 14:58 (three days ago) link

Pitchfork didn't review a Taylor Swift album until Reputation, but they did review Ryan Adams' cover album of 1989, which some people see as kind of fucked. Yesterday was penance for that I guess.

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 15:05 (three days ago) link

The Ryan Adams example is kind of a funny one, because we should have reviewed “1989.” It’s kind of a long story. I really wanted to review that. But a writer fell through, and then it was going to be late. It was this series of errors, why that didn’t end up happening. And we hadn’t reviewed Taylor Swift previously. Whatever her next record is, we’re definitely going to review it. And then I’m sure people will write about it and say, “They’re reviewing Taylor Swift now.”

from an interview with mark richardson from a few years ago

american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 15:07 (three days ago) link

Thx, didn’t know any of that backstory.

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 15:17 (three days ago) link

god dammit Brad, what's up with making me interested in listening to a Taylor Swift album, what the hell

omar little, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 16:40 (three days ago) link

she's not at the level of a professional lyric coloratura (and while it's transposed down), it is still very good for someone who was not trained as an opera singer

uh, she actually did have professional training at points in time.

sarahell, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:03 (three days ago) link

don't worry omar, it will pass within 30 seconds of hearing a note of it

xp

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:07 (three days ago) link

but she is a great singer -- G&S is a bit closer to musical theater than "opera" when it comes to performance aesthetics (ime) -- so it's kinda a weird statement to make in the context of a G&S play.

sarahell, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:08 (three days ago) link

god dammit Brad, what's up with making me interested in listening to a Taylor Swift album, what the hell

― omar little, Tuesday, August 20, 2019 9:40 AM (thirty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's what i was born to do

american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:18 (three days ago) link

"What's New" was one of three tapes my parents had in the car when I was a kid and we would go on road trips, so I am very fond of it.

sarahell, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:19 (three days ago) link

these days i'm kind of a fan of Taylor Swift the person, having come around on her a bit due to her catching a lot of undue flak and also her being hassled by deeply terrible celebrities. i haven't really liked the hits but then again lots of cuts fall into context for me when i listen to an album.

omar little, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:20 (three days ago) link

Phew I'm relieved that we got the late review of 1989 that we did instead of whatever Meghan Garvey refused to write.

And yeah Brad your write-up on "Red" is terrific, it's my favourite of her albums-- not the Max Martin-produced 1989-anticipating singles, not the weird misfires by guest producers, but the core eight Nathan Chapman-produced tracks on it that perfectly hybridize modern country music with "The Joshua Tree". "State Of Grace" is one of the best opening tracks I've ever heard.

flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:47 (three days ago) link

i didn't know she turned in 20 chapman produced songs for red and now i need to fast forward 20 years to the box set

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:51 (three days ago) link

Ya I didn't know that either and same

flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 17:56 (three days ago) link

not the weird misfires by guest producers

Which traxx do you consider to fall in this category? Just curious

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 18:04 (three days ago) link

uh, she actually did have professional training at points in time.

― sarahell, Tuesday, August 20, 2019 1:03 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

didn't know that! does check out though

like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 18:28 (three days ago) link

Which traxx do you consider to fall in this category? Just curious

Ed Sheeran, Gary Lightbody. I was a fan of the Max Martin stuff too, when it came out, because I thought it was a detour, not a pivot. I am not fond of 1989 onward.

flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 18:55 (three days ago) link

same tbh

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 19:09 (three days ago) link

i didn't know she turned in 20 chapman produced songs for red and now i need to fast forward 20 years to the box set

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, August 20, 2019 10:51 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Ya I didn't know that either and same

― flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, August 20, 2019 10:56 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

it was news to me too! and this is the second time i've done research on this record lol

american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 19:10 (three days ago) link

I also... idk, I don't love the stuff I've heard from 1989-onward, and there is a part of me that feels like I've been bullied by her (as a listener) and I can't describe why, and I feel like I'm in mourning for a songwriter that I once loved and is now gone, I don't even really like the "good" tracks like "Blank Space", but yet, still, I don't think that this new direction deserves some of the vitriol I've observed in this corner or that... there's a craftsmanship to what she's doing now that I appreciate, even if I have no interest in listening to it.

flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 19:21 (three days ago) link

uh, she actually did have professional training at points in time.

― sarahell, Tuesday, August 20, 2019 1:03 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

didn't know that! does check out though

― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:28 AM (fifty-four minutes ago)

my voice teacher had worked with her at one point. that's the only reason i know lol

sarahell, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 19:24 (three days ago) link

Are you having opera training? Cool!

Frederik B, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 20:19 (three days ago) link

https://pitchfork.com/news/bon-iver-justin-vernon-talks-about-his-critical-eminem-tweets/

TAGS IN THIS STORY
Interviews, Video, Beef

what else are you all “over” (Champiness), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 21:24 (three days ago) link

BTW Meaghan Garvey did end up writing about 1989 for Pitchfork - in the end of year list that year: https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/9558-the-50-best-albums-of-2014/?page=2

monotony, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 23:54 (three days ago) link

i'm not really a fan of the Martin tracks on Red (they feel awkwardly between worlds, the choruses are underwritten & they feel out of place on the album) but the tracks she did with Dan Wilson and Jeff Bhasker are some of her very best, "Treacherous" is probably my all-time favourite TS track and "Holy Ground" is wonderful too

ufo, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 00:25 (two days ago) link

Yeah both those songs are great. The bridge on “Treacherous” is tremendous; and “Holy Ground” may be my favorite cut on the LP.

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 01:20 (two days ago) link

Oh yeah Holy Ground is so great

And that Garvey write-up of 1989 is totally good, too!

flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 02:12 (two days ago) link

Brad is right to single out “Treacherous” as (and i’m paraphrasing here) maybe the pinnacle of her songwriting craft while simultaneously singling out “All Too Well” as the pinnacle of her songbook.

Tim F, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 03:56 (two days ago) link

and the pinnacle of “All Too Well” is the 3rd chorus, when she sings — It was rare, I was there...

(subscribe to my blog, Plaid Shirt Days, for more insights on “All Too Well”)

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 04:41 (two days ago) link


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