pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

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Donald
Oh my God, what just happened at P-Fork
Mon Apr 1 07:08:25 2002
63.167.209.146

I'm not going to spew any elitist bullshit, but Alanis Morrissette, Kylie Minogue? Oh my fucking God. I'll stay for a little while to see if P-Fork still serves my needs, but with today's front page, I'm not counting on it. I understand the career move, but I just don't think it's going to serve me any more.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

stu Re: Oh my God, what just happened at P-Fork Mon Apr 1 07:41:08 2002 65.92.243.96

I wonder if it's going to serve anyone's needs. I don't think a web- only publication can attract readers interested in Alanis Morissette and Kylie Minogue. To my knowledge, no one actually hunts down information about such artists. People just hear about it on tv and that's it. Let's give Pitchfork a few months, until the corporate contributors pull the plug.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I am very disappointed. Could they have made it any more obvious? COME ON, PEOPLE.

David Raposa, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think a web- only publication can attract readers interested in Alanis Morissette and Kylie Minogue.

QUOTE OF THE YEAR.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

What makes me think that things will be back to normal by tomorrow? ;)

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know Sean... it would be April 2nd, which would make it one day after...

Andy K, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

You scalawags, you make me laff. Perhaps.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Speaking of which, HEY NED! My Bloody Valentine are finally releasing their new album!

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

We thought about that as one of the news items.

Dare, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"i for one will not be returning to this site if you're seriously going to be reviewing alanis. like i can't read that shit everywhere and anywhere? the reason i had pitchfork as my home page was because i could actually find out about the shit i care about. i'm glad you can pay your rent now, it's too bad that you sold out your millions of readers for britney fans in body glitter to do it."

Dare, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

pitchfork as your homepage, classic or dud?

the first thing i thought (after, well, this is no all cure all the time) was that i wished they really had "sold out" (what the fuck, is this 93?), because maybe it would mean LESS GODDAMN PROG.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

he's calling you out, leone. FITE!

Todd Burns, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I think I'd rather read about Alanis and Kylie than most of the stuff they normally review.

Sean, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Their funniest joke came months ago.

Nicole, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know what all you fools are talking about... I only WISH all of it were true.

Well, the Albini thing practically is...

mr. sparkle, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

We thought about that as one of the news items.

Makes sense, really.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know what all you fools are talking about... I only WISH all of it were true.

Well, the Albini thing practically is... huh???

Brock K., Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

LESS GODDAMN PROG

So, does that mean we'll write about the next Radiohead album, or not?

dleone, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

And that Flaming Lips thing actually is true. I think.

powertonevolume, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Hein? Is the joke that Pitchfork reviewed some pop musik?? Even their KYLIE review was as dull as www.defra.gov.uk/farm/sustain/default.htm ARRRGHHHHHHHHH!! Then again Pitchfork = dull is a big shocker along the lines of Nelson in COLUMN!!!!!! shocker.

Sarah, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

'On' column? 'HAS' column?! I can see him from my bladdy window but does that help my BRANE I think NICHT.

Sarah, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Dom, how much of the Kylie review was farce? "The song exudes a catchiness that belies its inherent simplicity, so reassuring during an era when chart acts sound increasingly baroque and producers race to see who can ape electronic music trends first" sounds at least semi-serious.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

that is because kylie is, like sophie ellis bextor, going for a retro- mancuso/levan vibe, with all the classicism inherent in such an endeavour.

gareth, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually, I did try to write about that record in the same way I would have for anything else at Pitchfork. I thought the gag would be better if people really thought we were changing styles, and Spin may be full of ads, but at least the reviews aren't jokes! As far as I know, anyway. Dullness wasn't intentional though.

dleone, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

best e-mail address ever, eh starbar?

dudley, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Dead right sir. Power shandies all round to the geezer behind it eh?

Sarah, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

From: DWilliams@EQRWORLD.com Subject: NO, Just Admit You Like It Up There

You have completed your learning of life's lessons. Now, you suck ass just like all the other bores before you. Kylie, Alanis? Whatever, bitch. I am sure you already have the defense mechanisms in place so, this will mean nothing but, another exercise in...oh, who cares. Looking elsewhere for reality...or maybe I can pretend to be a rubber worm like pitchwhore.com...here big fishie, look, I rounded 'em up for you in a arrel. A whole demographic!

Not Funny

Dare, Thursday, 4 April 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

five years pass...

Y'know sometimes they really are asking for it:

"White Williams issues a debut album layered with impeccable influences-- including Roxy Music, Beck, and T. Rex-- and a sense of calculated disaffection."

Well shit SIGN ME UP.

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 18:57 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, that was a bit of a repellant blurb if I ever saw one.

Z S, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:01 (twelve years ago) link

Wait, are you saying that doesn't seem accurate?

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:10 (twelve years ago) link

I read 'White' as 'While' and thought "The Saul Williams album sounds like that?"

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:11 (twelve years ago) link

it's more that they used that as their _hook_

x-post

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:20 (twelve years ago) link

The front blurbs are always stripped/condensed summary descriptions from the review inside -- in this case

His songs are thin and languorous, with impeccable influences and the sort of calculated disaffection that comes from an MFA in design and a good weed connection.

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:46 (twelve years ago) link

omg that is horrorshow

The blurb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article quote

HI DERE, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:18 (twelve years ago) link

I assume that's an article quote; nabisco, if you just made that up then SHAME ON YOU.

HI DERE, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:22 (twelve years ago) link

why would a critic ever try to guess where a song comes from?

Mr. Que, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:23 (twelve years ago) link

I'm more bothered by beck as impeccable influence

dmr, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:24 (twelve years ago) link

Wait, are you saying that doesn't seem accurate?

The description of "a sense of calculated disaffection", a combination of words that makes me imagine the shittiest band of all time, followed by "recommended" was repellant for me. I guess I like my disaffection to be natural, not carefully planned, so I would never recommend something like that.

Then again, I've never heard it so what do I know and so on.

Z S, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:29 (twelve years ago) link

b-but someone at pfork said "hm, how can we get people to read this review? I know! we'll mention the artist's impeccable influences and calculated disaffection! that'll reel 'em in!"

RIP satire etc

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:34 (twelve years ago) link

they could have collaged+mis-used _anything_ from the article, and they collaged+mis-used that

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:35 (twelve years ago) link

The White Williams album reminds me much more of late 10cc and Bread than of Roxy Music. That bit was like the classic "Let's over-hip our influences" review.

I eat cannibals, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:54 (twelve years ago) link

The description of "a sense of calculated disaffection", a combination of words that makes me imagine the shittiest band of all time, followed by "recommended" was repellant for me.

See, this sounds like the blurb WORKED for you -- i.e., efficiently let you know you would probably not like this act.

I agree, though, it looks kind of weird to have such a neutral-to-disparaging summary blurb on a recommended album.

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 22:04 (twelve years ago) link

I like how they gave the new Babyshambles, which is actually tuneful and a good all around album, a 4.0, but gave the first one, which is dreadful and hard to listen to / bloated, a 7.3,

Yeah, it was definitely TWICE as good as the new one. Fuckin' morons.

Erock Zombie, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:30 (twelve years ago) link

ugh, "impeccable influences" is really repulsive.

Hurting 2, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:46 (twelve years ago) link

(xpost) was that a parody or are you really getting worked up about an internet score for babyshambles

dmr, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:47 (twelve years ago) link

He was worked up?

roxymuzak, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:49 (twelve years ago) link

wait, i thought the grading scale was logarithmic. like 5 is twice as good as 4. somebody email ryan schreiber to find out.

elan, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:14 (twelve years ago) link

shit, now i need to reevaluate all my purchases of the last five years.

elan, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:16 (twelve years ago) link

It's actually modelled after the Richter Scale, hence the superlative designations of various well-reviewed albums as either "Reccomended," "Best New Music," or "Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On."

Alex in Baltimore, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:24 (twelve years ago) link

A seldom-used tag, but gold every time

dad genes (morrisp), Tuesday, 21 January 2020 17:55 (one week ago) link

losing my mind thinking about the person on halsey’s team who had to tell her she just called for the collapse of one world trade https://t.co/eJJmK0KyQ7

— ben kesslen (@benkesslen) January 23, 2020

culture of mayordom (voodoo chili), Thursday, 23 January 2020 17:15 (six days ago) link

That explains the lingering influence of artists once written off as angry women: Shania Twain, Alanis Morissette, and pre-acrobatics P!nk.

Ex-squeeze me(?) Shania, an "angry woman"?

dad genes (morrisp), Thursday, 23 January 2020 17:22 (six days ago) link

This review is hilarious

Though Manic features Halsey’s take on a handful of different genres—broody pop-R&B reminiscent of her early work; alt-rock-lite that is an aesthetic match to her persona; twangy country-pop sure to find a home on certain segments of pop radio—much of it has the same reflective surface and, at some points, the depth of an oil slick. The Morissette collab “Alanis’ Interlude,” which features a reference to John Mayer’s “Your Body Is a Wonderland,” is almost too irritating to endure: “Your pussy is a wonderland,” the pair warbles, infinitely more times than necessary. It is a low point for someone who is at times a clever songwriter.

There's so much shade in this paragraph that I keep finding albinos under it

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Thursday, 23 January 2020 17:36 (six days ago) link

There's so much shade in this paragraph that I keep finding albinos under it

Wow <3

Montegays and Capulez (flamboyant goon tie included), Thursday, 23 January 2020 18:21 (six days ago) link

The "miserable Lyft ride" dig at Halsey reminded me of this Matty Perps tweet.

Can we give this stuff a more specific genre name, like Ubercore, since it's the music you always seem to hear in a ride share https://t.co/Us03SdPTZA

— Matthew Perpetua (@perpetua) December 31, 2019

jaymc, Thursday, 23 January 2020 19:25 (six days ago) link

wow another strike for twitter embeds

american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 23 January 2020 19:32 (six days ago) link

ILM got there first

dad genes (morrisp), Thursday, 23 January 2020 19:42 (six days ago) link

I typically like their 6.5's better than their BNMs so maybe the Halsey is for me.

billstevejim, Thursday, 23 January 2020 19:54 (six days ago) link

pick me up at 6

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Thursday, 23 January 2020 20:01 (six days ago) link

btw "Alanis' Interlude" is hilarious

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Thursday, 23 January 2020 21:13 (six days ago) link

I'm listening to the entire Halsey album and so far its biggest sin is... it sounds like all the other music Halsey has released?

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Thursday, 23 January 2020 21:52 (six days ago) link

Halsey IS...Halsey.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 23 January 2020 21:59 (six days ago) link

she's certainly the most successful version of the "bananees" and "avocadees" indie-girl voice, correct?

culture of mayordom (voodoo chili), Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:00 (six days ago) link

what?

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:15 (six days ago) link

from this: https://youtu.be/8SU0gFPMwP8

culture of mayordom (voodoo chili), Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:16 (six days ago) link

oh

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:17 (six days ago) link

isn't that basically just Billie Holliday

Οὖτις, Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:18 (six days ago) link

(by which I mean a bad approximation likely passed down through idk Macy Gray or something)

Οὖτις, Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:19 (six days ago) link

there's a whole category of poptronica/spotifycore songstresses who use that vocal mode, but im pretty sure that's a direct reference to cocorosie

culture of mayordom (voodoo chili), Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:26 (six days ago) link

who probably copped it from Karen Dalton

Οὖτις, Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:29 (six days ago) link

idk maybe this calls for an a thread equivalent to the old-man-hat-voice thread

Οὖτις, Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:29 (six days ago) link

I think there actually is a thread for it?

The real sin with "Alanis' Interlude" is orthographic... If you pronounce the "s" after the apostrophe, write the "s" after the apostrophe! Don't be thrown.

dad genes (morrisp), Thursday, 23 January 2020 22:30 (six days ago) link

as they say, 0.0 jet reviews can’t melt steel beams

like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Thursday, 23 January 2020 23:42 (six days ago) link

i'm no p4k purist wishng for a return to the olden days, but ... why are they reviewing of Halsey album? does she barely slide in under the imaginary credibility bar they've got over there?

alpine static, Friday, 24 January 2020 01:04 (five days ago) link

reviewing *A* Halsey album

alpine static, Friday, 24 January 2020 01:04 (five days ago) link

she has hits

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 01:07 (five days ago) link

they'll review any major-label pop album regardless of artist credibility or number of hits (incl. if zero) if they can craft a quippy tweet out of it that'll generate lots of #engagement

for example they reviewed the flop/widely-mocked liam payne album recently, i guess b/c they couldn't resist joining in on the fun

presumably they'll limit that somewhat so as not to completely crowd out coverage of 'credible' releases that are (were?) their bread and butter, but as far as what's fair game to cover in the mainstream, it seems to be just about anything short of the most whitebread of adult contemporary artists

dyl, Friday, 24 January 2020 01:30 (five days ago) link

a couple things I should mention as correction:

(a) Pitchfork has writers who grew up with 1D as phenomenon. Why would they pitch a review to generate lots of #engagement?

(b) I pitched a review of Liam Payne's album b/c I wanted to know what the one of the lesser known members might come up with.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 01:39 (five days ago) link

fair points -- as someone with zero professional/journalistic experience i have no real idea of what kind of consideration goes into ultimately selecting releases to cover

but it does seem more frequent these days that their tweets linking to reviews of mainstream stars' records are packaged with 'shady' one-liners that are sure to be retweeted far-and-wide (including by those who won't even bother to click the link/read the review)

dyl, Friday, 24 January 2020 01:52 (five days ago) link

Speaking as a writer and a onetime editor who managed writers a couple decades younger than me, I can assure you the pay is so shitty and their hopes so beaten already that they're not thinking LOL #pitchfork WILL SURELY QUOTE THIS RAPIER OF A LINE AGAINST LIAM. Every writer at every time hopes to be read and hopes to write memorable prose; it's unfortunate how social media has made reviews marketing weapons.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 01:55 (five days ago) link

as the asker, i'm just circling back to say: i did a little poking around and my bad, i knew they had started covering most mainstream pop but i guess i thought they still weren't touching *some* stuff ... i seem to recall a Whiney thread about this? ... anyway, it appears i'm wrong and pretty much anything is fair game. which is fine. now i know.

alpine static, Friday, 24 January 2020 01:56 (five days ago) link

and I don't deny the financial advantages in the last five years to covering most mainstream pop. I'm just saying: the reviewers aren't cynical.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 01:58 (five days ago) link

i don't think it's weird they covered her at all, they reviewed her two previous albums. apart from p4k it's generally been critically received well enough and much better than her previous albums so i'm interested in checking it out

there is still some stuff they don't touch but it's generally un-hip major-label pop rock like imagine dragons-esque stuff (though they did review their latest) and twenty one pilots (which feels like a particularly strange omission, they have enough going on that i'd expect a p4k review to be able to have something interesting enough to say about them)

ufo, Friday, 24 January 2020 02:10 (five days ago) link

"guoid" and other diphthongizations in popular music

Mr. Snrub, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:08 (five days ago) link

Five separate news items about Billie Eilish winning a Grammy

News about the death of Kobe, basketball player, but not a peep about Sean Reinert, musician

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 27 January 2020 11:54 (two days ago) link

2017:

Pitchfork’s coverage of the 59th annual Grammy Awards yielded the music site’s highest traffic day ever last Monday. With 1.5 million unique viewers, the music site saw a 275 percent increase over its 400,000 average daily unique views.

jaymc, Monday, 27 January 2020 12:50 (two days ago) link

so sick of all these Bonnie Raitt articles!

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 27 January 2020 14:07 (two days ago) link

The Florida hip-hop continuum—from Miami bass to Trick Daddy to Rick Ross to Raider Klan—has never really fit neatly into the Southern rap tradition.


In what state do we think invented Southern rap?

The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 07:52 (yesterday) link

Without Uncle Luke, Atlanta rap would sound like Arrested Development

The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 07:52 (yesterday) link

well lord it's obvious we got a relationship

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 12:30 (yesterday) link

Rap-a-Lot (imo)

Atlanta really didn't develop much until later, MC Shy D wasn't very distinctive just influences from NY and Miami

I agree the statement is weird, given that Miami had an identity before what we think of as "southern rap" even existed

I mean if your definition of Southern rap is limited to the Big KRIT definition of “Country Shit” maybe, but all Atlanta rap from ‘87-‘91 was heavily indebted to Luke (who also put out Shy D’s record) not to mention the direct line to So So Def-era bass and then crunk shortly after. This isn’t exactly splitting hairs!

The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 15:27 (yesterday) link

I agree!

Southern rap started with Bubba Sparxx.

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 15:39 (yesterday) link

nah, it was Justin Timberlake

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 28 January 2020 16:32 (yesterday) link

"Atlanta really didn't develop much until later, MC Shy D wasn't very distinctive just influences from NY and Miami"

sure but kilo was doing pretty distinctive stuff in terms of both style and content as early as 90, and direct lines of influence can be drawn from him to outkast, gucci, cee-lo, d4l, etc. raheem the dream too, who literally put on fabo and young dro, two of the central style generators of '00s atlanta

the gruffer side of goodie mob -> jeezy -> 2 chainz too can prob be traced back to sammy sam and the hard boys, who draw heavily on ll cool j (basically a miami bass artist by adoption the same the showboys are new orleans bounce) and rap-a-lot , respectively

100 flacs (noz), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:26 (yesterday) link

also it's especially insane to say that raider klan is disconnected from the southern rap tradition they were basically a three 6 mafia cover band when they started

100 flacs (noz), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:27 (yesterday) link

whiney sent me this last night and i did not give a fuck but now i'm mad

100 flacs (noz), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:29 (yesterday) link

kilo / raheem / sammy sam were all innovating while working broadly in the miami bass tradition, i should say

100 flacs (noz), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:32 (yesterday) link


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