pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

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Donald
Oh my God, what just happened at P-Fork
Mon Apr 1 07:08:25 2002
63.167.209.146

I'm not going to spew any elitist bullshit, but Alanis Morrissette, Kylie Minogue? Oh my fucking God. I'll stay for a little while to see if P-Fork still serves my needs, but with today's front page, I'm not counting on it. I understand the career move, but I just don't think it's going to serve me any more.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

stu Re: Oh my God, what just happened at P-Fork Mon Apr 1 07:41:08 2002 65.92.243.96

I wonder if it's going to serve anyone's needs. I don't think a web- only publication can attract readers interested in Alanis Morissette and Kylie Minogue. To my knowledge, no one actually hunts down information about such artists. People just hear about it on tv and that's it. Let's give Pitchfork a few months, until the corporate contributors pull the plug.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I am very disappointed. Could they have made it any more obvious? COME ON, PEOPLE.

David Raposa, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I don't think a web- only publication can attract readers interested in Alanis Morissette and Kylie Minogue.

QUOTE OF THE YEAR.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

What makes me think that things will be back to normal by tomorrow? ;)

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know Sean... it would be April 2nd, which would make it one day after...

Andy K, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

You scalawags, you make me laff. Perhaps.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Speaking of which, HEY NED! My Bloody Valentine are finally releasing their new album!

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

We thought about that as one of the news items.

Dare, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

"i for one will not be returning to this site if you're seriously going to be reviewing alanis. like i can't read that shit everywhere and anywhere? the reason i had pitchfork as my home page was because i could actually find out about the shit i care about. i'm glad you can pay your rent now, it's too bad that you sold out your millions of readers for britney fans in body glitter to do it."

Dare, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

pitchfork as your homepage, classic or dud?

the first thing i thought (after, well, this is no all cure all the time) was that i wished they really had "sold out" (what the fuck, is this 93?), because maybe it would mean LESS GODDAMN PROG.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

he's calling you out, leone. FITE!

Todd Burns, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I think I'd rather read about Alanis and Kylie than most of the stuff they normally review.

Sean, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Their funniest joke came months ago.

Nicole, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know what all you fools are talking about... I only WISH all of it were true.

Well, the Albini thing practically is...

mr. sparkle, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

We thought about that as one of the news items.

Makes sense, really.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know what all you fools are talking about... I only WISH all of it were true.

Well, the Albini thing practically is... huh???

Brock K., Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

LESS GODDAMN PROG

So, does that mean we'll write about the next Radiohead album, or not?

dleone, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

And that Flaming Lips thing actually is true. I think.

powertonevolume, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Hein? Is the joke that Pitchfork reviewed some pop musik?? Even their KYLIE review was as dull as www.defra.gov.uk/farm/sustain/default.htm ARRRGHHHHHHHHH!! Then again Pitchfork = dull is a big shocker along the lines of Nelson in COLUMN!!!!!! shocker.

Sarah, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

'On' column? 'HAS' column?! I can see him from my bladdy window but does that help my BRANE I think NICHT.

Sarah, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Dom, how much of the Kylie review was farce? "The song exudes a catchiness that belies its inherent simplicity, so reassuring during an era when chart acts sound increasingly baroque and producers race to see who can ape electronic music trends first" sounds at least semi-serious.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

that is because kylie is, like sophie ellis bextor, going for a retro- mancuso/levan vibe, with all the classicism inherent in such an endeavour.

gareth, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Actually, I did try to write about that record in the same way I would have for anything else at Pitchfork. I thought the gag would be better if people really thought we were changing styles, and Spin may be full of ads, but at least the reviews aren't jokes! As far as I know, anyway. Dullness wasn't intentional though.

dleone, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

best e-mail address ever, eh starbar?

dudley, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Dead right sir. Power shandies all round to the geezer behind it eh?

Sarah, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

From: DWilliams@EQRWORLD.com Subject: NO, Just Admit You Like It Up There

You have completed your learning of life's lessons. Now, you suck ass just like all the other bores before you. Kylie, Alanis? Whatever, bitch. I am sure you already have the defense mechanisms in place so, this will mean nothing but, another exercise in...oh, who cares. Looking elsewhere for reality...or maybe I can pretend to be a rubber worm like pitchwhore.com...here big fishie, look, I rounded 'em up for you in a arrel. A whole demographic!

Not Funny

Dare, Thursday, 4 April 2002 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

five years pass...

Y'know sometimes they really are asking for it:

"White Williams issues a debut album layered with impeccable influences-- including Roxy Music, Beck, and T. Rex-- and a sense of calculated disaffection."

Well shit SIGN ME UP.

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 18:57 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, that was a bit of a repellant blurb if I ever saw one.

Z S, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:01 (fifteen years ago) link

Wait, are you saying that doesn't seem accurate?

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:10 (fifteen years ago) link

I read 'White' as 'While' and thought "The Saul Williams album sounds like that?"

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:11 (fifteen years ago) link

it's more that they used that as their _hook_

x-post

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:20 (fifteen years ago) link

The front blurbs are always stripped/condensed summary descriptions from the review inside -- in this case

His songs are thin and languorous, with impeccable influences and the sort of calculated disaffection that comes from an MFA in design and a good weed connection.

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:46 (fifteen years ago) link

omg that is horrorshow

The blurb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article quote

HI DERE, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:18 (fifteen years ago) link

I assume that's an article quote; nabisco, if you just made that up then SHAME ON YOU.

HI DERE, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:22 (fifteen years ago) link

why would a critic ever try to guess where a song comes from?

Mr. Que, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:23 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm more bothered by beck as impeccable influence

dmr, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:24 (fifteen years ago) link

Wait, are you saying that doesn't seem accurate?

The description of "a sense of calculated disaffection", a combination of words that makes me imagine the shittiest band of all time, followed by "recommended" was repellant for me. I guess I like my disaffection to be natural, not carefully planned, so I would never recommend something like that.

Then again, I've never heard it so what do I know and so on.

Z S, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:29 (fifteen years ago) link

b-but someone at pfork said "hm, how can we get people to read this review? I know! we'll mention the artist's impeccable influences and calculated disaffection! that'll reel 'em in!"

RIP satire etc

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:34 (fifteen years ago) link

they could have collaged+mis-used _anything_ from the article, and they collaged+mis-used that

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:35 (fifteen years ago) link

The White Williams album reminds me much more of late 10cc and Bread than of Roxy Music. That bit was like the classic "Let's over-hip our influences" review.

I eat cannibals, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:54 (fifteen years ago) link

The description of "a sense of calculated disaffection", a combination of words that makes me imagine the shittiest band of all time, followed by "recommended" was repellant for me.

See, this sounds like the blurb WORKED for you -- i.e., efficiently let you know you would probably not like this act.

I agree, though, it looks kind of weird to have such a neutral-to-disparaging summary blurb on a recommended album.

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 22:04 (fifteen years ago) link

I like how they gave the new Babyshambles, which is actually tuneful and a good all around album, a 4.0, but gave the first one, which is dreadful and hard to listen to / bloated, a 7.3,

Yeah, it was definitely TWICE as good as the new one. Fuckin' morons.

Erock Zombie, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:30 (fifteen years ago) link

ugh, "impeccable influences" is really repulsive.

Hurting 2, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:46 (fifteen years ago) link

(xpost) was that a parody or are you really getting worked up about an internet score for babyshambles

dmr, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:47 (fifteen years ago) link

He was worked up?

roxymuzak, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:49 (fifteen years ago) link

wait, i thought the grading scale was logarithmic. like 5 is twice as good as 4. somebody email ryan schreiber to find out.

elan, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:14 (fifteen years ago) link

shit, now i need to reevaluate all my purchases of the last five years.

elan, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:16 (fifteen years ago) link

It's actually modelled after the Richter Scale, hence the superlative designations of various well-reviewed albums as either "Reccomended," "Best New Music," or "Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On."

Alex in Baltimore, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:24 (fifteen years ago) link

To say nothing of anyone releasing in December

imago, Wednesday, 2 November 2022 15:20 (one month ago) link

dum. There's a * after 2022 that doesn't seem to be defined. It oughta be "or November-December 2021."

maf you one two (maffew12), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 16:00 (one month ago) link

oh it just means required field. It's the only field. And you have to pick stuff they reviewed. you can type a space and see all the options.. lol. They gave Arca's Dec 2021 albums BNM and they're not eligible for what that's worth.

maf you one two (maffew12), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 16:04 (one month ago) link

you are not allowed to have read Pitchfork for more than 25 years. wuh oh

maf you one two (maffew12), Wednesday, 2 November 2022 16:06 (one month ago) link

cake was not a good band

call all destroyer, Monday, 7 November 2022 02:46 (one month ago) link

did they Sunday Review Cake?

i fuckin' hate Cake

alpine static, Monday, 7 November 2022 02:49 (one month ago) link

Wasn't going to mention it before but

Fashion Nugget is like an oversized diner menu. There is something for most people: mariachi, jazz, tango, funk, country—none of which were cool at the time. Nor was stewing disparate genres in the same pot.

I'd say alt-rock acts making a point of "stewing disparate genres in the same pot" is very mid-90s

you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 7 November 2022 03:20 (one month ago) link

it's the same year Odelay came out

insane oatmeal raisin cookie posse (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 7 November 2022 03:45 (one month ago) link

My thoughts exactly

you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 7 November 2022 03:46 (one month ago) link

Cake the absolute worst band, could understand wanting to reassess but there’s not much there except whitened dog turd

poppin' debussy (the table is the table), Monday, 7 November 2022 11:51 (one month ago) link

Ween stewed genres better.

Cow_Art, Monday, 7 November 2022 12:21 (one month ago) link

Cake were a very good band. Ween are one of the worst things to ever happen to music.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 7 November 2022 12:35 (one month ago) link

Motorcade of Generosity >>> Fashion Nugget, but Cake are underrated in either case.

enochroot, Monday, 7 November 2022 14:17 (one month ago) link

Okay, I'll take it back— Cake were great musically. The vocals and lyrics were and remain cringe.

poppin' debussy (the table is the table), Monday, 7 November 2022 20:12 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Black artists—like dubwise hardcore pioneers Bad Brains or ska-punk eccentrics Fishbone—the walls were closing in from both sides, as they were shut out from both the white world of rock radio and the Black mainstream star-making apparatus that favored slick R&B balladeers, synth-funk loverboys, and fashionable rappers.

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/living-colour-vivid

This para seems… off to me

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 24 November 2022 10:27 (two weeks ago) link

Specifically the snide part from “slick” onwards

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 24 November 2022 10:27 (two weeks ago) link

shades of "black pop conspiracy"

your original display name is still visible (Left), Thursday, 24 November 2022 12:40 (two weeks ago) link

I haven't heard the adam sandler album but surely it's not actually good is it? they just wanted to do that score?

your original display name is still visible (Left), Thursday, 24 November 2022 12:47 (two weeks ago) link

Adam Sandler album is incredible and a classic

insane oatmeal raisin cookie posse (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 24 November 2022 17:05 (two weeks ago) link

I don't get comedy so I'll take your word for it - as long as it's better than that bill hicks bullshit that used to top every "best comedy albums" list

your original display name is still visible (Left), Thursday, 24 November 2022 18:03 (two weeks ago) link

didn't read the review; can only remember that bit from the sandler album where he puts on his worst "MEXICAN GUY" accent and talks about how he looks at his own asshole in the mirror.

ミ💙🅟 🅛 🅤 🅡 🅜 🅑💙彡 (Austin), Thursday, 24 November 2022 19:15 (two weeks ago) link

Topping a "best comedy albums" list with Bill Hicks was a way for journalists to claim superiority over all the Dennis Leary fans they knew in High School.

MarkoP, Thursday, 24 November 2022 19:26 (two weeks ago) link

I was curious what would actually end up on top of a list like that, since in 2022 Hicks would be an incredibly unlikely pick, and the only legit-ish list I found was SPIN in 2011 with uhhh Bill Cosby at #1. I'm starting to come around to the hivemind consensus that comedy should be put to an end

rob, Thursday, 24 November 2022 19:37 (two weeks ago) link

adam sandler and the death of comedy coming soon to netflix

ミ💙🅟 🅛 🅤 🅡 🅜 🅑💙彡 (Austin), Thursday, 24 November 2022 19:39 (two weeks ago) link

I’ve never heard the Sandler album (or even seen those early movie, both of which I know are cult favorites for a crowd a little younger than me), but I thought the review was interesting and well written.

"Mick Wall at Kerrang!" (morrisp), Thursday, 24 November 2022 19:41 (two weeks ago) link

(One of those Lowbrow Reader issues has a long appraisal of Billy Madison… I don’t think I’ll ever “get” Sandler, but it’s interesting to read these appreciative takes by guys who were in high school when he came around)

"Mick Wall at Kerrang!" (morrisp), Thursday, 24 November 2022 19:45 (two weeks ago) link

For years, 2011’s Jack and Jill was shorthand for “the worst film ever made,” and yet it has acquired an admiring cult following for scenes like this [the Dunkaccino scene], which contains the best and most dialed-in line readings I’ve seen from Al Pacino in decades.

This is slightly baffling to me. People actually like that scene?

jmm, Thursday, 24 November 2022 20:00 (two weeks ago) link

You guys are absolutely offTM here.

Cosby albums were insanely good, though obviously he is a monster off stage. Maybe the best storyteller in comedy history Bill Hicks albums are super tight and razor sharp even if the actual politics of his "angry libertarian" schtick hasn't aged well. Sandler first album is an absolute master-class in absurd-dumb-funny bullshit and the review nails why its great.

insane oatmeal raisin cookie posse (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 24 November 2022 20:26 (two weeks ago) link

Cosby is the best storyteller, not Hicks (punctuation needed there)

insane oatmeal raisin cookie posse (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 24 November 2022 20:26 (two weeks ago) link

I don’t know what reviewers thought of that sandler album at the time (if they thought it wasn’t funny they were wrong, it’s often pretty hysterical) but they were all off the mark on Billy Madison.

omar little, Thursday, 24 November 2022 20:28 (two weeks ago) link

I got a snake, man

insane oatmeal raisin cookie posse (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 24 November 2022 20:30 (two weeks ago) link

"obviously he is a monster off stage" was my only point, just the sick joke of idly wondering who would top such a list and it being basically the worst possible option biographically

obvs it wasn't clear from my post, but I am not actually remotely anti-comedy

rob, Thursday, 24 November 2022 20:35 (two weeks ago) link

rant in e minor had a profound effect on me before i had any sort of politics. the first bit being about how much pro-life people suck.. the total hostility toward advertising… idk the parts i remember fondly hold up lol

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 24 November 2022 21:28 (two weeks ago) link

I was curious what would actually end up on top of a list like that

A Pryor album would be the safe pick.

Hicks had a really good stage presence. I remember one of his cable specials began with him coming through what looked like a secret door with a wall of flames behind him like he was sneaking out of hell.

Some Adam Sandler movies are funny but that album is fucking awful.

I loved Bill Cosby’s albums when I was a kid, like 6-10. The funniest shit in the world.

Now my favorite comedy album is Dice Clay’s The Day The Laughter Died, which deserves its own 33 1/3 book.

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 24 November 2022 22:08 (two weeks ago) link

I think I still like bits of Bill Hicks but do not agree that his albums were tight, so much time spent making stupid noises into the microphone and every time he really gets going you cut to uninspired guitar noodling.

link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 24 November 2022 22:11 (two weeks ago) link

so much time spent making stupid noises into the microphone and every time he really gets going you cut to uninspired guitar noodling

Let's leave Zappa out of this

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 24 November 2022 22:42 (two weeks ago) link

Uhhh there’s a shitload more to the comedy album genre than just “albums released by standup comedians”

Mr. Snrub, Friday, 25 November 2022 01:06 (two weeks ago) link

Oh yeah, there’s Tenacious D too

With whiney on this one, there’s a ton of stand-up that makes me laugh my ass off, it’s just that a lot of popular comics are actually not funny because most people aren’t that funny

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Friday, 25 November 2022 02:47 (two weeks ago) link

Cosby albums were insanely good, though obviously he is a monster off stage.

otm.

And "The Cosby Show" still holds up

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 25 November 2022 03:56 (two weeks ago) link

Monty Python’s LPs hold up better than just about any comedy records I can think of

“Oh, Yangtze. Oh, beautiful river…”

beamish13, Friday, 25 November 2022 04:32 (two weeks ago) link

Monty Python’s original albums were a bit spotty, but The Final Ripoff compilation is one of the greatest albums of all time. I can recite the cheese shop bit by heart.

Mr. Snrub, Friday, 25 November 2022 07:49 (two weeks ago) link

I have as much Monty Python memorized as any 50-year-old white guy, but the only album of theirs I ever owned was Matching Tie & Handkerchief, which was extremely annoying to listen to:

The album's original LP edition is particularly notable in that it was mastered with two concentric grooves on side two, so that different material would be played depending on where the stylus was put down on the record's surface. For this reason it is sometimes referred to as a "three-sided" record. The cutting was carried out by George "Porky" Peckham, who became known for etching messages into runout grooves. This was the first of many Python albums to bear one of these so-called "Porky Prime Cuts" – a brief message on Side 2 which reads: "PORKY – RAY ADVENTURE". To further confuse the listener, both sides of the record label were labelled "FREE RECORD Given away with the Monty Python Matching Tie and Handkerchief – Side 2" – only the matrix numbers identify which are the first and second sides.[3] The album did not have a track listing, so that this feature would come as a complete surprise to listeners, who might on a subsequent listening hear material they had never heard before, creating genuine confusion.

Since the record had two concentric grooves, they were spaced considerably apart, halving the length of the playing time. Subsequent editions of the vinyl incorporated both grooves sequentially as separate tracks, eliminating the double groove. Likewise with promotional copies for radio stations, as they were banded for airplay. However, when Virgin reissued the album in the UK in 1985, the double groove was retained, but with the "Great Actors" sketch cut from the end of Side 1 and moved onto the start of the second side which previously began with "The Background to History". This meant the two B-sides no longer had equal length, resulting in a long silence following the "Phone-In" sketch at the end of the second Side B.

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 25 November 2022 13:06 (two weeks ago) link

"three sided albums: classic or dud?"

but seriously, that is expert status - who is the brunt of the joke at that point? silliness. confusion comedy will always win in my book.

ミ💙🅟 🅛 🅤 🅡 🅜 🅑💙彡 (Austin), Friday, 25 November 2022 14:56 (two weeks ago) link

Maybe I'm being picky (and nothing at all against the particular artists being discussed), but I was a little irritated by the discussion of "bespoke R&B"(??) in this podcast excerpt.

The point being made is that R&B is "evolving" because "therapy and mental health and identity have all bled into this new class of R&B singers"; whereas "a lot of women in R&B have been relegated to either being sexpots or lovelorn or grieving." I think that's reductive (even with the acknowledgement that "there’s incredible R&B made to that end"), and I'm not sure that "owning every part of your identity" is really "a new era" for R&B...

Wet Legume (morrisp), Thursday, 8 December 2022 18:10 (yesterday) link

so that this feature would come as a complete surprise to listeners, who might on a subsequent listening hear material they had never heard before, creating genuine confusion.

On a Simpsons DVD commentary showrunner David Mirkin (I think) talks about this album, and how he thought he was losing his shit due to suddenly hearing completely different material. He later learned that the inspiration for it came from British horse racing records, which were apparently a thing, and where the outcome of a race would be different depending on which groove the needle hit.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 8 December 2022 18:22 (yesterday) link

He later learned that the inspiration for it came from British horse racing records, which were apparently a thing, and where the outcome of a race would be different depending on which groove the needle hit.

Me and my love for the puzzle plate tradition to thread

Locked Grooves: Classic or Dud

you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 8 December 2022 18:41 (yesterday) link

Maybe I'm being picky (and nothing at all against the particular artists being discussed), but I was a little irritated by the discussion of "bespoke R&B"(??) in this podcast excerpt.

The point being made is that R&B is "evolving" because "therapy and mental health and identity have all bled into this new class of R&B singers"; whereas "a lot of women in R&B have been relegated to either being sexpots or lovelorn or grieving." I think that's reductive (even with the acknowledgement that "there’s incredible R&B made to that end"), and I'm not sure that "owning every part of your identity" is really "a new era" for R&B...

― Wet Legume (morrisp), Thursday, December 8, 2022 1:10 PM (two hours ago)

Yeah, if nothing else, it's insultingly ahistorical.

And personally, the idea that therapy & mental health diagnoses are the best vehicle for self-understanding is becoming extremely ripe for unpacking/pushback/some kind of questioning, though obvs this would be a terrible thread (maybe board) for that discussion.

rob, Thursday, 8 December 2022 20:21 (yesterday) link

It's like Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, and Erykah Badu, among others, didn't exist.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 December 2022 20:28 (yesterday) link


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