pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

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Donald
Oh my God, what just happened at P-Fork
Mon Apr 1 07:08:25 2002
63.167.209.146

I'm not going to spew any elitist bullshit, but Alanis Morrissette, Kylie Minogue? Oh my fucking God. I'll stay for a little while to see if P-Fork still serves my needs, but with today's front page, I'm not counting on it. I understand the career move, but I just don't think it's going to serve me any more.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

stu Re: Oh my God, what just happened at P-Fork Mon Apr 1 07:41:08 2002 65.92.243.96

I wonder if it's going to serve anyone's needs. I don't think a web- only publication can attract readers interested in Alanis Morissette and Kylie Minogue. To my knowledge, no one actually hunts down information about such artists. People just hear about it on tv and that's it. Let's give Pitchfork a few months, until the corporate contributors pull the plug.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I am very disappointed. Could they have made it any more obvious? COME ON, PEOPLE.

David Raposa, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't think a web- only publication can attract readers interested in Alanis Morissette and Kylie Minogue.

QUOTE OF THE YEAR.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

What makes me think that things will be back to normal by tomorrow? ;)

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't know Sean... it would be April 2nd, which would make it one day after...

Andy K, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

You scalawags, you make me laff. Perhaps.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Speaking of which, HEY NED! My Bloody Valentine are finally releasing their new album!

Sean Carruthers, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

We thought about that as one of the news items.

Dare, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

"i for one will not be returning to this site if you're seriously going to be reviewing alanis. like i can't read that shit everywhere and anywhere? the reason i had pitchfork as my home page was because i could actually find out about the shit i care about. i'm glad you can pay your rent now, it's too bad that you sold out your millions of readers for britney fans in body glitter to do it."

Dare, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

pitchfork as your homepage, classic or dud?

the first thing i thought (after, well, this is no all cure all the time) was that i wished they really had "sold out" (what the fuck, is this 93?), because maybe it would mean LESS GODDAMN PROG.

jess, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

he's calling you out, leone. FITE!

Todd Burns, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think I'd rather read about Alanis and Kylie than most of the stuff they normally review.

Sean, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Their funniest joke came months ago.

Nicole, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't know what all you fools are talking about... I only WISH all of it were true.

Well, the Albini thing practically is...

mr. sparkle, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

We thought about that as one of the news items.

Makes sense, really.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't know what all you fools are talking about... I only WISH all of it were true.

Well, the Albini thing practically is... huh???

Brock K., Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

LESS GODDAMN PROG

So, does that mean we'll write about the next Radiohead album, or not?

dleone, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

And that Flaming Lips thing actually is true. I think.

powertonevolume, Monday, 1 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hein? Is the joke that Pitchfork reviewed some pop musik?? Even their KYLIE review was as dull as www.defra.gov.uk/farm/sustain/default.htm ARRRGHHHHHHHHH!! Then again Pitchfork = dull is a big shocker along the lines of Nelson in COLUMN!!!!!! shocker.

Sarah, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

'On' column? 'HAS' column?! I can see him from my bladdy window but does that help my BRANE I think NICHT.

Sarah, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dom, how much of the Kylie review was farce? "The song exudes a catchiness that belies its inherent simplicity, so reassuring during an era when chart acts sound increasingly baroque and producers race to see who can ape electronic music trends first" sounds at least semi-serious.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

that is because kylie is, like sophie ellis bextor, going for a retro- mancuso/levan vibe, with all the classicism inherent in such an endeavour.

gareth, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Actually, I did try to write about that record in the same way I would have for anything else at Pitchfork. I thought the gag would be better if people really thought we were changing styles, and Spin may be full of ads, but at least the reviews aren't jokes! As far as I know, anyway. Dullness wasn't intentional though.

dleone, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

best e-mail address ever, eh starbar?

dudley, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dead right sir. Power shandies all round to the geezer behind it eh?

Sarah, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

From: DWilliams@EQRWORLD.com Subject: NO, Just Admit You Like It Up There

You have completed your learning of life's lessons. Now, you suck ass just like all the other bores before you. Kylie, Alanis? Whatever, bitch. I am sure you already have the defense mechanisms in place so, this will mean nothing but, another exercise in...oh, who cares. Looking elsewhere for reality...or maybe I can pretend to be a rubber worm like pitchwhore.com...here big fishie, look, I rounded 'em up for you in a arrel. A whole demographic!

Not Funny

Dare, Thursday, 4 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

five years pass...

Y'know sometimes they really are asking for it:

"White Williams issues a debut album layered with impeccable influences-- including Roxy Music, Beck, and T. Rex-- and a sense of calculated disaffection."

Well shit SIGN ME UP.

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 18:57 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah, that was a bit of a repellant blurb if I ever saw one.

Z S, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:01 (sixteen years ago) link

Wait, are you saying that doesn't seem accurate?

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:10 (sixteen years ago) link

I read 'White' as 'While' and thought "The Saul Williams album sounds like that?"

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:11 (sixteen years ago) link

it's more that they used that as their _hook_

x-post

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:20 (sixteen years ago) link

The front blurbs are always stripped/condensed summary descriptions from the review inside -- in this case

His songs are thin and languorous, with impeccable influences and the sort of calculated disaffection that comes from an MFA in design and a good weed connection.

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 19:46 (sixteen years ago) link

omg that is horrorshow

The blurb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article quote

HI DERE, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:18 (sixteen years ago) link

I assume that's an article quote; nabisco, if you just made that up then SHAME ON YOU.

HI DERE, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:22 (sixteen years ago) link

why would a critic ever try to guess where a song comes from?

Mr. Que, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:23 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm more bothered by beck as impeccable influence

dmr, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:24 (sixteen years ago) link

Wait, are you saying that doesn't seem accurate?

The description of "a sense of calculated disaffection", a combination of words that makes me imagine the shittiest band of all time, followed by "recommended" was repellant for me. I guess I like my disaffection to be natural, not carefully planned, so I would never recommend something like that.

Then again, I've never heard it so what do I know and so on.

Z S, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:29 (sixteen years ago) link

b-but someone at pfork said "hm, how can we get people to read this review? I know! we'll mention the artist's impeccable influences and calculated disaffection! that'll reel 'em in!"

RIP satire etc

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:34 (sixteen years ago) link

they could have collaged+mis-used _anything_ from the article, and they collaged+mis-used that

lukas, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:35 (sixteen years ago) link

The White Williams album reminds me much more of late 10cc and Bread than of Roxy Music. That bit was like the classic "Let's over-hip our influences" review.

I eat cannibals, Thursday, 1 November 2007 20:54 (sixteen years ago) link

The description of "a sense of calculated disaffection", a combination of words that makes me imagine the shittiest band of all time, followed by "recommended" was repellant for me.

See, this sounds like the blurb WORKED for you -- i.e., efficiently let you know you would probably not like this act.

I agree, though, it looks kind of weird to have such a neutral-to-disparaging summary blurb on a recommended album.

nabisco, Thursday, 1 November 2007 22:04 (sixteen years ago) link

I like how they gave the new Babyshambles, which is actually tuneful and a good all around album, a 4.0, but gave the first one, which is dreadful and hard to listen to / bloated, a 7.3,

Yeah, it was definitely TWICE as good as the new one. Fuckin' morons.

Erock Zombie, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:30 (sixteen years ago) link

ugh, "impeccable influences" is really repulsive.

Hurting 2, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:46 (sixteen years ago) link

(xpost) was that a parody or are you really getting worked up about an internet score for babyshambles

dmr, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:47 (sixteen years ago) link

He was worked up?

roxymuzak, Friday, 2 November 2007 18:49 (sixteen years ago) link

wait, i thought the grading scale was logarithmic. like 5 is twice as good as 4. somebody email ryan schreiber to find out.

elan, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:14 (sixteen years ago) link

shit, now i need to reevaluate all my purchases of the last five years.

elan, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:16 (sixteen years ago) link

It's actually modelled after the Richter Scale, hence the superlative designations of various well-reviewed albums as either "Reccomended," "Best New Music," or "Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On."

Alex in Baltimore, Friday, 2 November 2007 19:24 (sixteen years ago) link

It’s funny that they likely tagged her that way because they started covering her circa Reputation, so even their retroactive reviews of albums like her ST carry that tag.

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 03:41 (five days ago) link

(And yeah, I don’t understand why a genre tag has to be tied to an artist, rather assigned to each review individually)

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 03:42 (five days ago) link

I think it was because Apple Music categorized Folklore that way? It's just a weird way to think about how genre works, as though she was doing something so radically opposed to what she'd done before that it would require special expertise to analyze, rather than just using a slightly different set of sonic signifiers.

jaymc, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 03:45 (five days ago) link

It’s funny that they likely tagged her that way because they started covering her circa Reputation, so even their retroactive reviews of albums like her ST carry that tag.

― Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Monday, February 19, 2024 9:41 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

If you're talking about Pitchfork, it tags Swift "Pop/R&B." FWIW, I think these are the only genre tags that exist:

-Electronic
-Experimental
-Folk/Country
-Global
-Jazz
-Metal
-Pop/R&B
-Rap
-Rock

But some artists get multiple tags. For instance, Carrie Underwood is both Folk/Country and Pop/R&B. So is Anais Mitchell.

So I guess it would make sense to use that double label for both Swift and Beyonce, too.

jaymc, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 03:56 (five days ago) link

Right, my point was that if they started covering her at the beginning, she likely would’ve been tagged folk/country (or whatever)… but they didn’t, so even her country albums aren’t tagged that way

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 04:02 (five days ago) link

It’s weird they didn’t give at least her the double tag that Carrie Underwood has, though…

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 04:07 (five days ago) link

"Global" = just insane that this is tolerated

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 16:01 (five days ago) link

A few weeks ago Pitchfork was dead. Now we're nitpicking genre labels. Quite a comeback.

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 16:24 (five days ago) link

pitchfork — still dumb

tylerw, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 16:30 (five days ago) link

I've stopped looking at the site regularly, but this genre-tag discussion interested me (fwiw)

When I worked at a music website a million years ago, we had a problem where an artist could only be tagged with a single name in the back-end database; so when we ran a review of a Dion box set, the artist name appeared as "Dion and the Belmonts" – which ticked off B1lly Altm4n (for good reason). I remember delving into the limitation on the tech side. I don't recall any issues with tagging individual reviews by genre, tho

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 16:34 (five days ago) link

The guy who can fix it probably got fired

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 16:35 (five days ago) link

iirc, the p4k CMS only allows you to assign genres per artist not album, which was explained the last time there was a dustup over this

The SoyBoy West Coast (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 17:04 (five days ago) link

Reminds me of when Christgau had Fantano dead to rights with the genre tag "dark prog" and all his stans went ballistic because those words don't line up perfectly with RYM definitions or whatever

The SoyBoy West Coast (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 17:06 (five days ago) link

I've always wonder what led to Brand Nubian getting Metal and Rap genre tags

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/1123-fire-in-the-hole/

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 17:14 (five days ago) link

Same with Juggaknots

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/4310-rerelease-clear-blue-skies/

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 17:16 (five days ago) link

and Critical Beatdown lmao

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/8383-critical-beatdown/

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 17:19 (five days ago) link

Taylor Swift fans harassed the New York Times over Jon Caramanica's review of Folklore because he is, according to his bio, the paper's pop music critic and was therefore biased against an "indie/alternative" album.

― jaymc, Monday, February 19, 2024 6:59 PM (yesterday)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8fK-z5eyeA

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 17:55 (five days ago) link

every editorial CMS is janky and has a 1,000 dumb little decisions that were made when it was rolled out that end up having unintended consequences that no one anticipated at the beginning

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 18:00 (five days ago) link

yeah that was definitely true at XLR8R way back when— lots of weird quirks on the back end that seemed easily fixable but weren’t

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 18:08 (five days ago) link

I recently offered my services to improve/optimize an editorial CMS with my new ReactJS skills and was basically told the whole thing is outsourced to a tech company

The SoyBoy West Coast (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 18:09 (five days ago) link

yeah and there's no appetite to fix it because it's really only making it more annoying to do work for the people who actually have to do it, but it's not preventing the work from being done, so the powers that be aren't going to say okay let's create a project to do this because some beyonce fans are upset about something for two weeks

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 18:13 (five days ago) link

the whole shebang:

because it is LITERALLY NOT SOMETHING I HAVE CONTROL OVER as i have said many times. the coding of the website assigns genres to ARTISTS, not to releases. if they changed it to country it would change every beyonce relese to country. please put this energy toward a real problem https://t.co/AHNCljpkzf

— nadine type beat (@FakeNadine) February 19, 2024

Never, Nadine will not know peace until my last breath

— Beyhive Central (@Beyhive_Central) February 19, 2024

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 19:15 (five days ago) link

cool, normal fans.

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 19:16 (five days ago) link

Ugh

Marten Broadcloak, mild-mannered GOP congressman (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 19:38 (five days ago) link

She should ... ignore it/them?

alpine static, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 19:40 (five days ago) link

In general, probably yes, but maybe stans should also stop being so fucking weird.

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 19:44 (five days ago) link

she got harassed by a lot of them when the review was first published, then when it got featured again a week later, they came back. this was just the last in a line of people

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 19:45 (five days ago) link

Agree 100%! (xpost) But she has zero control over that.

Also, that fan account has 225 followers. Do not give it any air.

alpine static, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 19:45 (five days ago) link

Yeah I do not know why someone with a job/role like that would be (public) on Twitter, let alone engaging with such an acct...

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:07 (five days ago) link

Aren't most music journalists on Twitter?

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:10 (five days ago) link

By "job/role" do you mean Pop Music Writer? Seems like social media is almost required for that.

Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:10 (five days ago) link

yeah, I'm not following you, morrisp; but, no, I wouldn't engage with a stan account.

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:10 (five days ago) link

If you say so... I suppose there must be more upside than downside (tho I've never followed music journalists there). I mean Twitter is a very bad place, I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:16 (five days ago) link

I don't think I could do my job if I had randos online yelling at me about it, so kudos to those who can (and/or feel they must)

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:19 (five days ago) link

I was once doxxed by an artist's stans once but otherwise it's been okay. Depends how you set up your account.

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:20 (five days ago) link

that was the night Soto sent the tanks

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:22 (five days ago) link

You know what, I take it back – I do follow St3phen Th0mas 3rlewine on Threads; I ran into his acct. and he posts links to stuff he writes (which sometimes I check out, if not behind a paywall). So I see the value there (with the caveat that Threads ain't Twitter, which cuts both ways; maybe he's there too)

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:24 (five days ago) link

that was the night Soto sent the tanks

― CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal),

the tankies shut those stans down!

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:25 (five days ago) link

I don't think you could get hired at many places as as staff writer without a Twitter account.

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:26 (five days ago) link

(maybe now? not sure but certainly not at its peak. Posting links was part of the job.)

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:26 (five days ago) link

At the college newspaper we advise our reporters are required to create some sort of work/public social media account; otherwise the reluctance to promote their work gets the better of them.

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:28 (five days ago) link

From what I’ve heard, non-male music writers tend to get hassled more intensely on social media over their reviews.

Marten Broadcloak, mild-mannered GOP congressman (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:39 (five days ago) link

xp I'm thankful that my college newspaper days were juuuust before that material starting being permanently archived online (not that there's likely anything too incriminating, but y'know... I was totally off the mark on what "post-rock" was, stuff like that)

I wonder if that European "right to be forgotten" law extends to cringy stuff written in one's past

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:42 (five days ago) link

But sorry, I'm getting off-topic. Yeah, being a non-male writer (or any kind of public figure, really) with a public social account must be particularly rough

Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 20:43 (five days ago) link

It's just really bad database design to tie artists to genres 1:1. I could see maybe not wanting to go down the rathole of tracking musicians separately from their bands or instruments or whatever, but it should've been obvious that an artist might record in more than one genre throughout their career and it would've been simple to set it up that way if they had thought about it.

BrianB, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 22:44 (five days ago) link

some of y'all sound like you've never worked with these kinds of softwares/platforms - not just in music website-ing but in any corporate environment ... they are *all* designed by someone who is not really thinking about the end use/product and therefore causes little problems that end up driving the back-end users (especially) and consumers crazy.

this is what happens when you try to automate the organization of humans and human activities. it's never quite as clean as the coders would like it to be.

alpine static, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 23:21 (five days ago) link

like i don't blame P4k for this situation, really, because (a) they are probably annoyed by it too but can't fix it, and also (b) who cares! it's a little category thingy on a website. it doesn't matter.

alpine static, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 23:23 (five days ago) link

it doesn't matter.

truth bomb, lock thread.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 23:52 (five days ago) link

We need to get to 25,000

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 23:53 (five days ago) link

90% of creating a website or software or w/e is flushing out the actual requirements while leaving enough flexibility without breaking things. someone asked the client “hey, you want to be able to search by genre. should it be tied to the album or the artist?” and the answer made sense in the moment. it’s just that no taxonomy is static (or real)

ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Thursday, 22 February 2024 14:07 (three days ago) link


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