Why Vinyl Can't Survive

the irony of CDs being the cheap landfill fodder and LPs being the overpriced items for "audiophiles" and collectors, what a difference a couple of decades makes

everybody otm, CDs rule and are cheap, also new vinyl has flaws maybe 30% of the time at least, it's gotten so bad that I need to read Discogs reviews of pressings before I buy anything (another reason to just go for that maybe-slightly-more-expensive OG in many cases)

the Scorpio represses of all those Sun Ra Saturn titles sound just fine and are $12 new in my local store, I was fully addicted to impulse buys there for a while

I'm a little embarrassed at how much more I like listening to jazz on LP than on CD.

og presses ruuuuuule

My mate buys original pressings of jazz LPs (or high-quality Japanese reissues from the 70s/80s) and I will concede listening to them on his $30k system is astounding. If I had a similar system, I might think twice about picking up vinyl, but I know how obsessive-compulsive I can be and it might be a rabbit hole and money pit.

you can build a great vinyl setup that will pin your ears back for $1000

Please offer specifics.

og presses ruuuuuule

in most cases, yes. for Saturn or ESP records... not so much

xpost $1100 but...

Cambridge Audio AXA 35 Integrated Amplifier (has built-in phono amp) $350
ELAC Debut 2.0 bookshelf speakers $300
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable $400
Record brush, speaker wire and RCA cables $50

The BYG/Actuel series original pressings are pretty dicey, too. Problem is, some of the reissues (CD and vinyl) are mastered from needledrops of said dicey pressings.

xp

when mucking around with vinyl I generally try and acknowledge that it is enjoyable for reasons other than sound quality - ie it is fun to do all the voodoo with cleaning and handling and crate digging and appreciating the big artwork (+nostalgia as I bought records in the late 80s) - and when a record sounds good it often feels like a personal triumph because there are so many variables that can make it sound fkn terrible -BUT a well-mastered CD on a capable player will simply sound better in 90% of cases

prime era jazz records definitely sound great but they can often sound great on CD too - so do i just like the idea, or the adherence to the original intent of the recording session?

sometimes i am truly knocked out by a record though - eg when i first put on the 12" of Memories by PiL it was uncanny how powerful and weird it felt floating out of the speakers, maybe it is simply better mastering than any CD copy i've heard but there was something special going on - the new CD & Kreme 12" on Trilogy Tapes has a similar quality

I'm a bit fed up with vinyl at the moment, partly due to shitty modern pressings but also because there's something wrong with my record player (I think the cables have gone between the cartridge and the tone arm) and I don't know how to fix it, don't really want to know how to fix it, and can't really afford to get someone else to fix it, so I haven't really been playing records at all. also I already have tons of records and could probably do with getting rid of some. too much stuff

shitty modern pressings

shitty modern pressings

shitty modern pressings

shitty modern pressings

shitty modern pressings

shitty modern pressings

shitty modern pressings

shitty modern pressings

how many new pressings are advertised as "HIGH QUALITY!!" and then are pressed on 100% inferior colored garbage?

it almost feels like all of the historical conspiracy theorists that were so outspoken about cds and how shite they sounded in comparison to vinyl were just propaganda all along so now everyone is okay paying $40 for literally worse quality.

makes me feel like my life as a music fan could be likened to be on the receiving end of the aggressor in an abusive relationship.

I'm always curious about the "colored vinyl is inferior" argument because...black vinyl is "colored" vinyl. Vinyl starts out clear, and they put black stuff in it. So why is the black stuff OK, but the red/green/swirly stuff not OK?

I could see how *picture discs* might not sound as good as regular vinyl, because there it's two half-slabs pressed on either side of a piece of visual art, rather than a single slab squeezed between two plates. But any other color of vinyl manufactured using the usual process should be fine, seems to me.

I have a picture disc that was pressed about 10 years ago. Sounds great.

I think maybe most people are just misinformed, re: clear vinyl

I’m not really into the look of colored vinyl

CDs are ugly travesties and i just don't want to see them is my reason for preferring vinyl.

i don't really fuck with new releases tho

DIY punk labels are still able to produce small runs of 500/1000 LPs and sell them for £9-12 a pop

Do these sell for this price in shops or from buying directly from the label? I am mystified how any label could have an album sell for £9 unless they were selling it to the shops directly.

Tbh yeah £9 is from mail order, not necessarily direct from label, but not rare to see the same going for 12-13 in shops

Just bought one for £12 from a record shop last weekend

New release as well. I don't mind the higher prices so much for new releases, it's the reissue stuff going for £20-30 that gets me

£12 should just be possible.

Euro pressing costs are around £4 for an album without any extras, ie no inside sleeve etc, maybe slightly less if doing 1000. To sell for £12 they would have to have a dealer price of around £5 so label would be making a very small profit . £9 retail price just seems impossible.

the converse of this is that some labels, especially reissue labels are definitely price gouging. Their only excuse would be if they had to pay very expensive advances to secure the release.

unperson here's a detailed breakdown on the badness of colored vinyl

https://www.gottagrooverecords.com/vinyl-colors/

I don't like vinyl or CDs. I just want the big artwork/liner notes with a download code. Am I a weirdo?

Given the buffet of bundle options that accompany a lot of releases now, I'm surprised we don't see "poster + download"

I love records. Old records. New records.

I don't necessarily think they sound better, although in some cases they do. I like the experience of them and it suits my collector tendencies. I think of them like hardcover books. The same content can be had in other, more convenient ways, but it sure feels nice.

Spotify is too much, I like limitations to a certain extent.

The medium is sometimes the message, or a big part of it. There are certain recordings where the first format I heard them on is integral to my enjoyment. Others feel especially suited to a format. Like, Master of Puppets and Badmotorfinger are two I prefer on CD, not just cause that's how I first heard them, but I want the chiseled, precise guitar sound, and no break halfway through. The weird mastering of the original Rid of Me CD, where I'd always turn it up as it started unnaturally soft compared to whatever I'd put on before, only to get blown away at the first loud bit- integral to how I think of that record.

For stuff from the same era, I don't feel disposed to hearing the Pixies or LL Cool Jay in a particular format, yet Husker Du and Public Enemy have a reduced impact when digitized. My Mingus phase was smack in the middle of the CD era, and I bet I'd get a whole new perspective on him if I heard those albums on vinyl. I do have a bunch of six eye Columbia LPs of 50s Ellington, and that may be why I hold that period in higher esteem than most.

Spotify has been life-changing for me, especially allowing for dives into international genres - where I can paddle around in a form until I latch onto a particular artist who takes me for a deep dive. Gets over the problem with Rough Guide-style comps, where I'd only connect with a small fraction of the artists.

overpriced vinyl happened because of audiophile pressings.

i've never once heard an unplayed record that sounded bad enough to make me wish i had access to a more expensive copy.

there were some really bad soul/funk reissues making the rounds like 10 years ago. Marvin Gaye’s i want you and Donald byrd’s ethiopian knights I remember sounding like high generation boombox cassette dubs.

As for me, the main reason is that it can't live for a long time. Surely, the clarity is great, but the device itself... Very sad.

Spotify is too much, I like limitations to a certain extent.

this is a thing for me as well. The main reason why I still engage with physical mediums for music is that i need the objects as tactile/visual aides to help me think about the music, remember things, and organize my thoughts & listening. A stack of records to flip through, a pile of CDs on my passenger seat, heres that record I listened to last week still sitting by the turntable, heres that CD my friend Ray told me about, which one of these 7" EPs havent i listened to yet, etc. The endless choice of digital streaming overwhelms my brain. I use Spotify/Youtube for exploring and discovering, but when I hear stuff I like and will want to hear again I almost always get a physical copy so that, frankly, I can have a reminder to help me remember that it exists.

yes

i need the objects as tactile/visual aides to help me think about the music, remember things, and organize my thoughts & listening.

Ditto. Every time I've moved or otherwise had to pack/unpack my CDs and records, the process of going through each individual object has reminded me a) that I had this one record I'd forgotten about, and b) "I should listen to ____ more! I'd forgotten I had so many of their records!" Then I make a stack of things I need to listen to/re-familiarize myself with.

There is no equivalent to this rediscovery with streaming.

I was a little flabbergasted recently when one of our local Targets which had been (to my chagrin) slowly winnowing down their physical media section to an insignificant nub suddenly had an entire aisle devoted to vinyl, and mostly older albums at that. Like I can't pick up a Blu-ray that was released any earlier than the past 90 days but if I wanna throw Doggystyle on the turntable I'm set.

lol, yeah the selection can be pretty inscrutable. My local Barnes and Noble had multiple copies of Ron Wood's I've Got My Own Album To Do one of the last times I flipped through their rack.

taking hints from ILM obviously

LOL

I'm sure I mentioned this on some other vinyl thread - I saw a reissue of the original cast recording of Hello Dolly and I cannot imagine the target demographic

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hello-dolly-ocr/32465957

...like, silent gen grandfolks already have this on LP somewhere, but they all love their CDs and Bose wave radios. Who would want this that is completely unaware that it's always available at the Goodwill? Are there really younger Broadway-heads that are seeking out the hipster cred of vinyl and the impulse buy at B&N? I'd imagine the original pressing sounds great. Near mint on discogs for #1.98 plus shipping.

There is no equivalent to this rediscovery with streaming.

I have a giant physical music collection but this statement is kinda spurious

Well, for me there's no equivalent. I mean, I don't go through menus and lists on streaming services and think "Oh, I forgot I had that/bought that!" because I don't "have" it, nor did I buy it.

One equivalent would be me coming across an old mp3 folder on my hard drive that I hadn't opened since like 2007, especially if it had mixes I made for people, another one is paging back through your Facebook history/Livejournal entries/whatever blog and seeing what you were listening to at various points in time. The process is intrinsically human and exists independently of anything tangible or intangible that it attaches to (IMHO).

I'm sure I mentioned this on some other vinyl thread - I saw a reissue of the original cast recording of Hello Dolly and I cannot imagine the target demographic

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hello-dolly-ocr/32465957

...like, silent gen grandfolks already have this on LP somewhere, but they all love their CDs and Bose wave radios. Who would want this that is completely unaware that it's always available at the Goodwill? Are there really younger Broadway-heads that are seeking out the hipster cred of vinyl and the impulse buy at B&N? I'd imagine the original pressing sounds great. Near mint on discogs for #1.98 plus shipping.

― bendy, Wednesday, September 11, 2019 3:12 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Maybe young adult Wall-E fans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIfD2g9QOTo

I’ve noticed an odd trend: it seems if you know someone who loves music the most adequate and accesible gift is a vinyl record of a band they like. It doesn’t even matter if they actually own a turntable.

People love gifting other people physical formats, I know I’ve gifted way too many books in an era where people don’t really read (they’re photography books for the most part though, people seem to like to leave those as decor in coffee tables in their living room) - and honestly is there a better format for music to give as a gift? They might use a yearly spotify, apple music, tidal, etc... more but you’d probably look cheap if you gave that one.... cassettes, cds are awful gifts unless you know the person collects them. But with vinyl it doesn’t even seem to matter, the fetish works as well as those fancy illustration/photography books, you can frame them and have them in your media room or something.

xxp Even with Spotify (and, I have to imagine, the others), I like to look back over saved albums sorted by newest save first... it works, there's memories (see also: folders of old playlists). And I still buy music as well. There's room for all this, if you've got the room.

I sometimes gift vinyls from my collection if the person seems very enthusiastic about a certain album in there... I think I’ve gifted 11 so far. recently I was hosting a party in my house and some dude was very curious about my collection and my audio system, he’s married to one of my friends so I know for a fact they don’t own a turntable. He got so excited to see I had some Rolling Stones records, specifically Exile on Main St., I don’t actually play that one much because it’s a 70’s print and while the sleeve looks great the actual record is not in a good condition, but I bought it for like 2 dollars so it’s fine for what it is. Anyways, I told him he could keep it and he was ecstatic. As if I has given him like the rarest record in the world.

So yeah, some people seem to think of these things as some sort of treasures. It’s ridiculous to me, but then again I collect vinyl so I’m guilty as well

Moka i've thought a lot about this, about how people used to be able to GIVE each other music and that gift was meaningful because it said something about the giver's identity, about how they perceived the giftee's identity, where they overlapped, about their relationship. And it was something that could be kept. People send playlists to each other... feels like it's not the same to me, that it's disposable, easy to forget, not easy to love and treasure, but maybe I'm just an old git

aw that's cute. as is "I think... 11"

I had that experience giving a Rappers Delight single

Moka brings in an angle I wasn't aware of - the pure gift, like a singing fish novelty or something.

Vinyl does give me this bizarre archival security that, should the climate apocalypse destroy the electrical grid, one will still be able to spin LPs with modified Victrola-like turntable-and-megaphone contraption, perhaps hooked up to a bicycle, Gilligan's Island style.

I haven't had to barter none since I learned to turn the crank at exactly 33.3rpm