devin townsend c/d

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i've been hearing alot about this guy for years. i am not familiar with his music but i know he's in like 60 bands. judging from his bin at the music store, his release rate makes mike patton look like he graduated from whidney high. so what's his deal? i heard he's producing the new gwar album and he's a good guitar player.

Supercalifragilisticexpiala Brosius (chaki), Sunday, 30 July 2006 02:31 (eleven years ago) Permalink

dude rocks the skullet. he is canada's idea of a super-genius. yoo might dig strapping young lad, chaki. lotz of big metal moves. he's a good producer.

scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 30 July 2006 02:47 (eleven years ago) Permalink

thanks scott! do you have any specific album suggestions? i always seem to like stuff you like.

Supercalifragilisticexpiala Brosius (chaki), Sunday, 30 July 2006 17:04 (eleven years ago) Permalink

kinda like the first few songs on Strapping Young Lad's City

milton parker (Jon L), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

three months pass...
wasnt he in the Wildhearts for five minutes (who wasnt?) back in the early 90s?

Humphrey Plugg (The Amorous Humphrey Plugg), Saturday, 18 November 2006 12:54 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the video - i think from a solo album - of him dancing like a retard in his skullet and a lycra devil suit, anyone seen that?

i laughed.

GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Saturday, 18 November 2006 12:59 (eleven years ago) Permalink

six months pass...

dude has just released concept album about ALIEN OVERLORD who has come to Earth to GET OUR COFFEE.

awes

Just got offed, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 22:44 (ten years ago) Permalink

I have it. It's awesome.

Jeff Treppel, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 23:58 (ten years ago) Permalink

five months pass...

OCEAN MACHINE, people. BIOMECH. We're talking near-genius here.

Just got offed, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 00:04 (nine years ago) Permalink

The only thing that ever grabbed me was SYL City. But obviously I haven't heard the majority of his work.

Nate Carson, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 02:29 (nine years ago) Permalink

With repeat listenings I'm actually slipping towards love. GET Ocean Machine: Biomech. It's absolutely masterful. Enormous. Heavy as fuck while not being at all noisy. Emotionally crushing. "The Death Of Music" has to be heard to be believed. It's like listening to a Cure epic unfold into an entire movie, no, an entire life. "Bastard" is pretty much just as good. The rest is all deep, soulful, tuneful, assured brilliance. I've got Terria and it's never had too much of an effect on me, aside from a few songs, but this stuff is staggering.

Just got offed, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 02:35 (nine years ago) Permalink

My mates swear by him (even the alien coffee concept weirdness) but I hated <i>City</i> (it sounds to me like St Anger sounds to everyone) so I've avoided him ever since.

MacDara, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 16:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

Ocean Machine--Biomech: Classic. Especially "Bastard" and "Hide Nowhere".

Devin Townsend--Infinity: Classic. Especially "Bad Devil" and "Christeen".

Strapping Young Lad--City: Classic. Especially "Detox" and "All Hail the New Flesh".

Strapping Young Lad--Alien: Dud. Especially 80% OF THE FUCKING ALBUM.

Strapping Young Lad--The New Black: Not really 'classic' but really good. Especially "You Suck" and "Fucker".

haven't heard the rest.

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 03:39 (nine years ago) Permalink

Especially "Bastard" and "Hide Nowhere".

These two, Seventh Wave and The Death of Music are insanely good.

Just got offed, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 03:41 (nine years ago) Permalink

yea, the album had a very peaceful effect on me when I first started listening to it afew years ago....

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 03:43 (nine years ago) Permalink

Life, Funeral, Regulator and that whole medley in the middle are awesome too.

Just got offed, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 03:55 (nine years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

Ridiculous love for Biomech emanating from my room here, I'm thinking of collapsing all this energy into a brand new star.

Unfortunately, when I play "Life" for my friends, they laugh. When did everyone become so averse to cheese in their music, especially when it is also: a) beautiful; and b) life-affirming?

Brad Nelson (BradNelson), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:59 (seven years ago) Permalink

"Hide Nowhere" is the slightly better of the cheesy torch-songs IMO, but what a fucking album. Closing triptych (bonus track aside) is as epic as epic can be

LiveJournal (acoleuthic), Saturday, 20 March 2010 21:35 (seven years ago) Permalink

I ain't the Devin expert, but.....

Classic - Infinity, Ocean Machine, and two Strapping Young Lad albums - "City" and "The New Black"

Dud - SYL's Alien (I don't buy into those who thought it was his best post-City)...haven't really heard much else.

Cattle Grind, Saturday, 20 March 2010 21:37 (seven years ago) Permalink

Biomech is awesome. "Bastard" is my favorite.

your friends are insecure fools.

Cattle Grind, Saturday, 20 March 2010 21:37 (seven years ago) Permalink

four years pass...

The Mighty Masturbator is how I wish all music was, sometimes

imago, Thursday, 20 March 2014 00:23 (three years ago) Permalink

This guy is just the best.

IKEA metaballs (Spottie), Thursday, 20 March 2014 04:09 (three years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

kinda wanna poll devin vs ginger wildheart. it'd be one of the most apt polls in ilm history. but it'd get about 4 votes

they're both songwriting/recording heroes operating in a hyper-maximalist hyper-melodic prog-metal-pop realm; they both have a massive cardiacs fetish (i think) and they've both been involved in about 424892298 different projects each, INCLUDING each other, right at the outset. but how their paths have diverged!

not so much, in fact - they're both doing the poppiest work of their careers right now (amongst the chaos), and they've both recruited a honey-voiced female vocalist to help them

idk. i can't choose between them. if pressed, devin probably wins, but shit, not by much, and only because he wrote the album 'deconstruction'. but then i remember that ginger masterminded 'mutation' and that fucken enormous 'albion' record last year alone. they're both attempting to explode the sun. i wish them luck.

Who whom kissed? (imago), Friday, 6 June 2014 01:22 (three years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

Never listened to ginger but love devin. Would I like him? Entry point?

Spottie, Thursday, 13 August 2015 03:58 (two years ago) Permalink

same here lemme know imago

insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Thursday, 13 August 2015 06:32 (two years ago) Permalink

right, so

ginger's songwriting is much, much more british than devin's - more focus on knotty melodies, more 'bits', more attitude - this might not endear him to you so much! he's much more of an acquired taste imo - devin can probably snare fans from a much broader cross-section of music tastes. certainly devin townsend is much better at creating dreampop and states of sheer sonic bliss out of treated guitar (and voice).

nevertheless, and knowing you two a little bit as i do, i'd say:

the song 'sky babies' - this will tell you if you will like his proggier stuff (skip to the last five minutes if you get bored):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuHVrh3NL6w

ahhh but he's developed some since the wildhearts' heyday. 'sky babies' is twenty years old! it is to him what early SYL is to devin. but the album it's on, 'fishing for luckies', is absolutely fucking incredible. here's another wonderful track from it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scvmD41UJWg

let's leap a little more into the present. ah fine let's have one more wildhearts. from the astonishing album 'endless nameless' where they basically decided to create, deliberately, the most atrociously-mastered record of all time. it's glorious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK_trE9qdfY

one more coz of

the riff

the SNARE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR3-TtFU-YM

RIGHT, that's enough wildhearts. let's have a look at his more contemporary stuff, which I think you will like MORE!

Hey! Hello! is the single project of his I'd most recommend to you two. In which Ginger teams up with a (ridiculously enthusiastic) female vocalist (not unlike Devin's recent accomplice) and transcends his metier! Here's a selection from the album! Get the album!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jN040ErUqc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNga2vAZQew

^I fucking love this, trenchant music biz commentary & all, mostly for the chorus, when it finally arrives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Sf4ryFP7w

^have another video! as pure pop as Ginger gets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju-azNSoJNo

^^^this one really is reminiscent of Devin at points. amazing album closer

...and then there's his recent 'solo' stuff, much of which is pitched part way between Hey! Hello! and The Wildhearts, and involves many of the same personnel. IMO, his most Devin-esque solo album has been the most recent - Albion, which I think is now on general iTunes release after initially being a pledgemusic-only deal - I got it at the time and some days it's like absolute crack to me. Pop-metal bliss from start to finish. I can only pick one? OK...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z1hIly1r_o

^THE OUTRO

then there's his earlier solo stuff - the 555% album especially, which is enormous. i haven't heard all of it. i'll throw one in almost at random:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HycWF_kEvE

^everyone seems to love this one. listening to it now, it goes to some wonderful, wonderful places

And now...I'd probably not be able to end this post without something by Mutation. But you're not required to like it ;)

Ironically, Mutation is probably the closest he's gotten to certain Devin projects. Probably the wrong ones as far as you're concerned, though.

If you don't like all of the above, well, at least I tried, hey?

imago, Thursday, 13 August 2015 16:06 (two years ago) Permalink

Maxed out my Youtube allowance! Here's the Mutation track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_7gk8PlTVI

So yeah. ELEVEN songs. Although I do think that both of you should start with Hey! Hello! and only go back in time if you feel like it.

imago, Thursday, 13 August 2015 16:07 (two years ago) Permalink

thanks for your efforts imago!

I liked plenty of what you posted. The early stuff sounds great but I really loved Deep In the Arms of Morpheus and a couple of the Hey Hello tracks. Not so much the badly recorded tracks although the grooves are there, just can't get with the recording technique.

I hear the similarities but feel like maybe where ginger leans pop devin leans to either metal or ambient? idk i like how both just do whatever they like and seem to be able to pull it off.

Spottie, Thursday, 13 August 2015 23:30 (two years ago) Permalink

also started to dive into 'deconstruction' and man alive...

Spottie, Thursday, 13 August 2015 23:31 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah that shit is properly crazy. 'the mighty masturbator' somehow hangs together as this monstrous & brilliant treatise on artistic existentialism while being a dance-metal-prog-tech freakout with fart noises and a big-top climax. it's so ambitious it's funny.

'addicted' might still be his best single album - it's between that, 'ocean machine' and 'terria' probz

glad you liked some of the ginger stuff! your likings essentially square with what i thought they would

imago, Thursday, 13 August 2015 23:44 (two years ago) Permalink

lol spottie you inspired me to finally listen to deconstruction. i'm not really into the concept of complex devin at the expense of pop devin, but now i realize that's not really what's going on here.

i think i like it better than addicted, but then i think epicloud and sky blue are basically better versions of addicted

insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Monday, 17 August 2015 04:34 (two years ago) Permalink

Ocean Machine: Biomech and Terria are both classics to me, particularly the former. Ziltoid is great for entertainment value!

You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Monday, 17 August 2015 13:38 (two years ago) Permalink

whoa have you all heard the casualties of cool record? it's like what if devin was folk sade

insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Monday, 17 August 2015 21:16 (two years ago) Permalink

was not expecting this. gorgeous. need to check this record now. so much devin the last couple weeks.

Spottie, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 16:59 (two years ago) Permalink

Listening to Terria now. The middle section from Deep Peace - Down Under is great.

Spottie, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 17:37 (two years ago) Permalink

terria's an unimpeachable masterpiece and i only like it slightly better than biomech

insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 18 August 2015 19:59 (two years ago) Permalink

the closing three tracks might be better than those middle three. The guitar break right in the middle of tiny tears! beautiful track.

Spottie, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 20:11 (two years ago) Permalink

anyone else out there that makes swing metal like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rokLH-YRZ1g

Spottie, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 20:29 (two years ago) Permalink

I think this my favourite from Ocean Machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj2EzOurU7Y

The funny slowed down voice on Olive from Terria still pops into my head once a month, 'stiiiiiir your driiiiink'

MaresNest, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 20:46 (two years ago) Permalink

that is a lovely ocean machine choice, would be mine but for that closing triptych (the final final track doesn't count)

Yul Brynner playing table tennis with a deviled kidney (imago), Tuesday, 18 August 2015 20:50 (two years ago) Permalink

i also get 'oooollliiivvveesss' regularly in my head, although terria as a whole is best experienced in one go

Yul Brynner playing table tennis with a deviled kidney (imago), Tuesday, 18 August 2015 20:50 (two years ago) Permalink

"funeral" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 18 August 2015 20:54 (two years ago) Permalink

It's also the perfect track to have on your headphones when on a cross trainer.

There's a peculiar production trick that DT employed a lot that I really love, tricks actually. He'll feed vocals (I think) through extremely long and smeary reverbs creating these wonderful, hazy sounding drone tracks that will often play out for the whole song, very cool, similarly there's often a lot of multitracked TV babble or vocal samples that seem to run in the background of some songs for their duration.

MaresNest, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 20:55 (two years ago) Permalink

Not sure I could decide between Funeral and Bastard but yeah Hide Nowhere is great as well.

Spottie, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 20:56 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah he does some fun stuff with his production xp that makes everything he does sound like his own genre.

Spottie, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 21:02 (two years ago) Permalink

listening to 'the fluke' right now...like, fucking hell this is extraordinary music

he really does have his own kitchen-sink approach to pop-metal - it's kind of transcendent - has the zeal and brightness of a superchurch sermon but it's all on the side of good

Yul Brynner playing table tennis with a deviled kidney (imago), Tuesday, 18 August 2015 21:06 (two years ago) Permalink

def gonna be buying the live at royal albert hall blu ray when it comes out (soon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5_-Ky_bqgc
seems like a massive production. here he brings a ton of people and his kid on stage for the last triumphant finale.

Spottie, Tuesday, 18 August 2015 21:07 (two years ago) Permalink

ginger wildheart simply has his own northern-england-renegade echo of this ;)

xp

whoa, yeah. saw some of his live show on youtube - he writes unique ziltoid scripts tailored to the people of the uk! what a gent

Yul Brynner playing table tennis with a deviled kidney (imago), Tuesday, 18 August 2015 21:08 (two years ago) Permalink

his guitar tone is often so bodiless and so filled out by synths that there's this total airy and atmospheric quality to his stuff that's pretty singular. my college girlfriend got me into him and i just remember thinking i'd never heard anything seem simultaneously so calm and so constantly moving

insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Tuesday, 18 August 2015 21:09 (two years ago) Permalink

Something seems off on the production of that album.

Spottie, Friday, 25 September 2015 19:32 (two years ago) Permalink

My list atm consists of basically every song on Accelerated Evolution

Spottie, Friday, 25 September 2015 19:37 (two years ago) Permalink

Something seems off on the production of that album.

oh yeah, definitely, his heaviest solo record and there's basically no bottom end, so it's just flying past you

insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Friday, 25 September 2015 19:44 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah def having a hard time getting into it cos of that.

Gotta say the acoustic version of Funeral is hypnotic and heartbreaking. Crazy how reg version sounds so transcendent and uplifting in comparison.

Spottie, Friday, 25 September 2015 19:48 (two years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...

new one's out next week but is also out there rn. the theme this time around is positivity! he rerecorded "truth" (and it sounds great and works surprisingly well tbh) and there's a ween cover

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Saturday, 3 September 2016 15:25 (one year ago) Permalink

it's his longest dtp record since deconstruction/ghost fwiw

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Saturday, 3 September 2016 15:27 (one year ago) Permalink

love this guy but i've only ever really listened to Terria and Addicted, maybe its time to go deeper

ciderpress, Saturday, 3 September 2016 16:01 (one year ago) Permalink

ocean machine!!!!

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Saturday, 3 September 2016 16:05 (one year ago) Permalink

It is... the best album ever recorded

Spottie, Saturday, 3 September 2016 19:39 (one year ago) Permalink

omg

ciderpress, Saturday, 3 September 2016 20:22 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah it's like the perfect dreampop-metal album, and he did it more or less on the first throw

imago, Saturday, 3 September 2016 20:45 (one year ago) Permalink

when you get to the chorus of 'hide nowhere' your ability to deny, is gone, forever

imago, Saturday, 3 September 2016 20:48 (one year ago) Permalink

and then when you get to the bridge your ability to do anything is p much gone as well

imago, Saturday, 3 September 2016 20:51 (one year ago) Permalink

olive?

the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Saturday, 3 September 2016 21:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Just awful music. Reminds me of Invader Zim and Richard Dawkins.

punksishippies, Sunday, 4 September 2016 21:02 (one year ago) Permalink

good

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Sunday, 4 September 2016 21:04 (one year ago) Permalink

I mean I hate both dawkins and vasquez but I feel like you could dismiss all prog metal in the same way

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Sunday, 4 September 2016 21:07 (one year ago) Permalink

i didnt like ocean machine as much as terria but its good

ciderpress, Sunday, 4 September 2016 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Don't get the Dawkins and Zim comparison.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 4 September 2016 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Cider I didn't love ocean machine right away. Liked it fine. But it'll grow on you.

Spottie, Sunday, 4 September 2016 22:18 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah in a lot of ways it's his deepest record besides terria. lot of rewarding pockets

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Sunday, 4 September 2016 22:18 (one year ago) Permalink

he's suspiciously good at the hamfisted arena rockers that he slips in once per album or so ("life","stagnant","slow me down")

ciderpress, Monday, 5 September 2016 16:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah he's mastered that

Spottie, Monday, 5 September 2016 16:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Don't get the Dawkins and Zim comparison.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, September 4, 2016 6:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

neither does punkishippies, don't worry

Neanderthal, Monday, 5 September 2016 18:42 (one year ago) Permalink

accelerated evolution is greattttt

ciderpress, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 03:37 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah 2nd best alb ever recorded B-)

Spottie, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 05:12 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah this is my favorite one now

ciderpress, Tuesday, 6 September 2016 22:10 (one year ago) Permalink

really fell for the new one tonight. feel like the devin townsend "project" has been building toward something like this, that exists in a kind of hybrid space between deconstruction and addicted. it's way less direct and more discursive than epicloud or sky blue, which are prob the two most similar albums he's made in a row. "higher" is amazing, with different production it could be on accelerated evolution

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Thursday, 8 September 2016 07:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Yesss its so gr8

Spottie, Monday, 12 September 2016 17:55 (one year ago) Permalink

That whole show is perfect but that three-song stretch of the three best songs on Ocean Machine (and maybe this three best overall?) is bliss

Spottie, Monday, 12 September 2016 18:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Any downsides to Original Album Collection: Discovering Devin Townsend Box? Looks like a good set.

http://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Devin_Townsend_-_Original_Album_Collection-_Discovering_DEVIN_TOWNSEND_-Ltd-_5CD_Edition-/16278

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 21:39 (one year ago) Permalink

looks like five great albums

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 21:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Looks ideal for me. Bless all these box sets coming out, they're making things easier.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 21:44 (one year ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-iLIozUrHs

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 13:44 (one year ago) Permalink

he's a great interview.

Spottie, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:04 (one year ago) Permalink

really fell for the new one tonight. feel like the devin townsend "project" has been building toward something like this, that exists in a kind of hybrid space between deconstruction and addicted. it's way less direct and more discursive than epicloud or sky blue, which are prob the two most similar albums he's made in a row. "higher" is amazing, with different production it could be on accelerated evolution

― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Thursday, September 8, 2016 12:37 AM (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

checking the new one now. HIGHER! takes like five left turns.

Transcendence through From The Heart is prob my favorite stretch. Back half of From the Heart molds into a beautiful Califone-esque song.

That Ween cover is perfect

Spottie, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 21:18 (one year ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Really not my scene all this Jaggerprog, but I am watching 90's Wildhearts live shit and seriously this guy is awesome

Jonathan Hellion Mumble, Friday, 18 November 2016 00:40 (one year ago) Permalink

five months pass...

In my early 20s, Biomech was the album that I used to "reset" when my mood was spiraling.

Listening to it now for the same reason and it's having the same serene effect on me.

Charles "Butt" Stanton (Neanderthal), Sunday, 7 May 2017 13:12 (six months ago) Permalink

BASTARRRRRD
MOTHER FATHER
NOOOOO

Charles "Butt" Stanton (Neanderthal), Sunday, 7 May 2017 13:50 (six months ago) Permalink

album has that affect yeah

Spottie, Saturday, 13 May 2017 03:23 (six months ago) Permalink

Where to start with this dude? Saw him open a bit for Gojira and Opeth, and he was ... OK!

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 13 May 2017 19:52 (six months ago) Permalink

Either Ocean Machine: Biomech or Terria ... it feels to me that those are generally good places to start rather than something like, say, Ziltoid.

The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Saturday, 13 May 2017 20:32 (six months ago) Permalink

City

Charles "Butt" Stanton (Neanderthal), Saturday, 13 May 2017 22:18 (six months ago) Permalink

bpth those answers are probably right, just depends if you want your head smashed in (City) or your soul lifted to the heavens (Ocean Machine, Terria). I would add Accelerated Evolution to the latter.

Spottie, Monday, 15 May 2017 16:37 (six months ago) Permalink

with Deconstruction, you can have both ;)

imago, Monday, 15 May 2017 16:48 (six months ago) Permalink

n.b. don't listen to Deconstruction first

imago, Monday, 15 May 2017 16:49 (six months ago) Permalink

lol yeah dont

Spottie, Monday, 15 May 2017 16:56 (six months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

I should have jumped on that box set earlier. I tried to buy it from two sellers recently and it's sold out.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 7 August 2017 14:17 (three months ago) Permalink

I like SYL, but the Project stuff I've checked out struck me as over-earnest... Maybe I didn't give it a fair hearing.

chap, Monday, 7 August 2017 17:26 (three months ago) Permalink


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