Arthur Baker vs Rick Rubin

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Baker, for Planet Patrol alone.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

uh, let's see

every good run-dmc track + every good ll cool j track + two good slayer albums + "99 problems"


confusion + some wack early electro overrated by the readers of jockey slut

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink

oh yeah, and "ill communication" and "deloused in the comatorium" and "chocolate salty balls" etc etc

"it's tricky" vs "planet patrol"
"walk this way" vs "planet patrol"
"my radio" vs "planet patrol"
"christmas in hollis" vs "planet patrol"



renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:26 (eleven years ago) Permalink

but vahid, who's the cutest?

jäxøñ (jaxon), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:28 (eleven years ago) Permalink

basically, where the entire genre of afrika bambaataa-inspired electro amounts to a tiny zit on rick rubin's back, arthur baker is just an even tinier zit on that zit.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:29 (eleven years ago) Permalink


renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Vahid, you are passionate.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:31 (eleven years ago) Permalink



renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:31 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"Dancing in the Dark (Blaster Mix)" vs "It's Tricky," eh?

Baker's low profile increases his cool points, while Rubin's interchangeable back-to-basics productions for the stars decrease his.

I'll take Baker. Barely.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:35 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Rubin, by a beard-length.

It's Rodney, pimp! (R. J. Greene), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink


Total Fucking Darkness (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:47 (eleven years ago) Permalink

dudes, Freeez is killing my ass = baker

jäxøñ (jaxon), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:53 (eleven years ago) Permalink

yeah, IOU is pretty good.

someone make a list of definitive baker productions.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 22:09 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I'm also a big fan of his wifee Tina B's "Honey To a Bee" (mainly because i have a really close friend we call Tina B)

jäxøñ (jaxon), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 22:20 (eleven years ago) Permalink

has anyone heard the baker/niles rogers produced Jeff Beck album from 85?

jäxøñ (jaxon), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 22:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

i think i had a zit problem like the one vahid describes

applejack carney (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 01:39 (eleven years ago) Permalink

has anyone heard the baker/niles rogers produced Jeff Beck album from 85?

Stewart's version of "People Get Ready" is nice.

We should also cite his remixes of Diana Ross' Swept Away and Hall & Oates' Big Bam Boom, the misbegotten synth-horns he squeezed onto Dylan's Empire Burlesque.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 01:54 (eleven years ago) Permalink


Ooh, I didn't know he produced this, such a great single. Sure, Rick Rubin is more important and influential, but I just don't like his style as much as Baker's, is that a crime? I couldn't care less about Beastie Boys or "Walk This Way" or metal or "Chocolate Salty Balls". And what the hell is "Deloused in the Comatorium", some prog LP? Some of Rubin's LL Cool J and Run-DMC are admittedly nice, but "Planet Patrol" is one of my favourite records of the eighties.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 07:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Baker. For his work with New Order.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 07:52 (eleven years ago) Permalink

has anyone heard the baker/niles rogers produced Jeff Beck album from 85?

it's not too bad but not 1/2 as funky as you'd hope. post-chic nile productions are a bit 80s-generic for my taste.

judging from their 80s work I'd call a tie between Baker & Rubin. subsequent Rubin productions have really soured me on his aesthetic, those po-faced Johnny Cash albums were bad enough but Neil Diamond? sheesh

m coleman (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 08:52 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I wish there really was a fight between the two of them. And it was on YouTube.

Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 11:13 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I love Arthur Baker's insouciance in the video for New Order's "Confusion."

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 12:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Tuomas asks: "what the hell is 'Deloused in the Comatorium'"

hahaha. i that's exactly what everyone else was asking when it came out. best thing ever on ILM.

my vote ...

Rick Baker & Arthur Rubin

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 16:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Rubin did nearly everything himself. Baker was an orchestrator, mostly aided by John Robie during his prime. Rubin. But if Michael McDonald's beard was thrown into the ring with them...

PappaWheelie 2 (PappaWheelie 2), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 18:37 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Freddy Fresh looks like JaXon.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 18:41 (eleven years ago) Permalink

you're out of your mind

jäxøñ (jaxon), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 19:17 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Wouldn't it be fair to say that most of the Baker 80s productions listed were shaped more by John Robie's contributions? I've always understood Baker to be a producer in the sense that he is in the studio, might make the odd suggestion, and generally lurks at the back saying "yeah, that's good" occasionally.

Certainly can't vouch for how "hands on" Rubin is / was.

They were certainly both involved in 80s records I loved an awful lot.

And yeah, Planet Patrol were hot. I love the way they used the spare tracks on the Planet Rock multitrack for "play at your own risk" - recycling the rhythm track, and losing the Kraftwerk lift.

Coach McGuirk (coach_mcguirk), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 19:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink :

MAYBE THE strangest pairing was Arthur's work with New Order. The dance master with the UK underground teasers (cough!). The liaison resulted in 'Blue Monday' and 'Confusion'. Arthur looks back without relish.

"They wanted to work with me. I didn't really know New Order although I knew Joy Division and liked some of their stuff. They sent me 'Blue Monday' and their album way before it came out and asked if I wanted to work on any of the songs. I didn't like 'Blue Monday' at all. I said it sounded like old Sylvester disco. I was shocked when that record came out. People would say I was involved in it and I would deny it because I didn't like it. I would say 'I wouldn't make shit like that'.

"They sat around in their hotel. Everything I'd read about them said they were musical geniuses, but they weren't any better musicians than I am and I'm no musician at all. I just play and sequencers and that's all they were doing."


'how "hands on" Rubin is / was.'

His definition of producing has nothing to do with 'hands on'. I remember a quote from him because I found it odd. He basically said he sees *zero* correlation between technical skill and the qualities a good producer needs. Since he says he has zero technical knowledge it makes you wonder how those earliest records got made and I've never reader read anything specific about that.

What he says he does now is first hang with the artist (go the to the record store, walk together on the beach). The way he describes it sounds really guruish, even for L.A. He wants to be like the X+1th member of the group and give advice, especially on songs. He comes up with a vision for the album and then the job is to chip away until that is achieved. He says it's a democratic process though and he doesn't push it too hard if he meets resistance. Others do the recording, mixing, etc. He says his whole life is 'A-B'ing (listening and deciding). He has a really good stereo and he can do this at his house while meditating and between swims. After doing this over and over the result is sent to his favorite mastering engineer as well as others. These are listened to competitively and his favorite guy always wins supposedly due to his unsurpassed equipment. However, some recording pros think the albums sound so distorted that in the case of the Red Hot Chili Peppers they petitioned the record company urging them to release competent versions.

Carlos Keith (Buck_Wilde), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 22:19 (eleven years ago) Permalink

george drakoulious!

j/k vahid OTM. rubin eazzzy

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 22:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink

haha Freddy Fresh isn't from New York! He's from St. Paul, MN (Twin Cities represent!)

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 22:27 (eleven years ago) Permalink

good shit on that arthur baker list:

new order (obviously)
freez (gotta admit this one)
loleatta "crash goes love" (dissing sylvester??)
new grandmaster flash lp (on ninja tune??? good for a laugh, actually...)
hall & oates
mastering on "low rider" by war
remastering bowie's "fame", nkotb "hang tough", neneh cherry "buffalo stance"

okay and yeah there's all that "walking on sunshine" / "planet patrol" / "play at your own risk" and so on but like other people noted:

1) john robie
2) aldo marin
3) jonzun crew
4) newcleus
5) kraftwerk
6) latin rascals

and so on and so forth

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 22:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

let's also not forget man parrish + COD

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 22:54 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Certainly can't vouch for how "hands on" Rubin is / was.

Jazzy Jay interview:

C: What was your creative input on “Planet Rock”?

“Planet Rock” was actually a routine we used to do with “Super Sperm,” “Trans-Europe express” by Kraftwerk and “Numbers” by Kraftwerk. We put the routine together and gave it to John Robie who did most of the programming and that later became “Planet Rock.”

J: What was Arthur Baker’s input?

Arthur Baker was like the conductor. He had less to do with our stuff than anybody but he took more of the credit and money. When you got a bunch of guys that’s not really involved with this business and you put them in a situation where they’re exposed to money, you think getting four thousand dollar checks is big money but you don’t realize he’s getting fifty, sixty, seventy thousand dollars

PappaWheelie 2 (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 15 June 2006 01:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

every good run-dmc track

And considering the 1st two Run DMC albums were produced by larry larr, and only one Run DMC album was Rick Rubin (you can't front on Tougher than Leather, even if it's not a perfect album), Rubin can't be credited with Run's career totally.

PappaWheelie 2 (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 15 June 2006 01:53 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"it's tricky" / "walk this way" / "my adidas" / "you be illin" / "peter piper" / "christmas in hollis" / "mary mary"

that's pretty much the desert island disc, except it's missing "it's like that" and "down with the king".

also rick rubin produced BABY GOT BACK you fools!!!

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 15 June 2006 03:31 (eleven years ago) Permalink



renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 15 June 2006 03:32 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I'd bet $5.75 that Rick Rubin is only credited with producing Baby Got Back. Mix has been producing himself since 1985, and this track sounds waaaay to close in technic to Mix's 1988 track Rippin' (as well as Kid Sensation and Tony Lorenzo tracks). There's a chance I could be wrong, but in the Red Bull Academy interview, Mix talks in depth about how he came up with certain aspects of the production on that song. Then again, he denies sampling Technocolor, which its 100% fucking clear that it was sampled. The snare during the loop (and lack of when the loop is absent is a dead give away).

Rubin has never made any Miami Bass songs - only proto-bass ala Rock the Bells. Being the 1st release of Mix's on (Def) American, the story tells itself. Another label owner crediting himself to secure extra publishing.

Best Run DMC is easily the debut album. Shit not only changed my life, but, uh, all Hip-Hop. The non-Disco/non-Electro Hip-Hop sound begins with the Sucker MC's/It's Like That single.

PappaWheelie 2 (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 15 June 2006 03:51 (eleven years ago) Permalink

tie, but i think there is more stuff in baker's catalog that i'm curious about. problem is that when i find it, i'm usually not so thrilled. "i.o.u." and "confusion" are massively classic though. in the other corner, run-dmc left an indelible impression on me and then there's reign in blood and "99 problems" (oh that video). so, etc etc what vahid said although it seems like baker has less forced street cred.

breakfast pants (disco stu), Thursday, 15 June 2006 05:00 (eleven years ago) Permalink

re sir mix-a-lot: fair enough.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Thursday, 15 June 2006 05:10 (eleven years ago) Permalink

eleven years pass...

Tuomas otm

badg, Friday, 8 September 2017 01:28 (eight months ago) Permalink

Agreed except for the Deloused In The Comatorium diss. Although as much as I like that record it's hardly a make-or-break credential for either side to have.
Vahid certainly wins points for style though.

You're all losing so many points on your progress bars (Champiness), Saturday, 9 September 2017 01:20 (eight months ago) Permalink

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