20 years on from C86

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Which tracks on it still sound good?

Velocity Girl - Primal Scream
Feeling So Strange Again - The Wolfhounds
Therese - The Bodines
Buffalo - Stump
It's Up To You - The Shop Assistants
New Way (Long Title) - Big Flame (WHAT a band)

Er...that's it. Discuss that or just general discussion of C86 and its (lack of) impact. Or don't. Please.

Venga (Venga), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 19:19 (sixteen years ago) link

Velocity Girl is still great. Haven't heard the rest.

punis (punis), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 19:41 (sixteen years ago) link

A pretty sad thing, C86. Clearly, it was an artificial attempt to mimic the 1981 NME/Rough Trade cassette - which was borne out of a real movement - by gathering together little strands of recordings which were umpteenth derivations of bands with much more personality and originality.

In as much as you could "hear" a wild diversity of inspiration on the C81 cassette - the Gurdjieff influence in the Blue Orchids or Scritti's marriage of the Canterbury Sound with pure pop or the Raincoats' love of various ethnic musics, the startling sharpness of Subway Sect and Josef K or just the original and unique magic of Pere Ubu or Robert Wyatt or the Virgin Prunes - C86 was pretty weak, it sounded like bands who'd listened almost exclusively to postpunk. Little or no magic - many weak Buzzcocks / Orange Juice derivations, artists who took the beauty of a Young Marble Giants and turned it into insipidness, "noise" bands with little wit, humor or overt intelligence.

It's the perfect artifact for postpunk fans who can't actually abide most of the real influences on postpunk - reggae, soul (actually, most "black" or ethnic musics), things which predate punk, anything that veers from pop song structure and so on.

There are a few nice things on it, but little of it "matters" as lasting music, I reckon.

Dee Xtrovert (dee dee), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 23:18 (sixteen years ago) link

The bogshed song is great! =x=x=

andrew john browntown (crime pays), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 23:25 (sixteen years ago) link

"Buffalo," which will sound good forever and ever, is one major exception to most all of that, DeeDee.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 23:48 (sixteen years ago) link

no surprise as to which is my fave 20 years on .. and i still reckon it sounds great.

are the rumours of 20 Years of C86 type 'events' still on the cards as mentioned in an Uncut snippet a while back (Bob Stanley involvement maybe ?)

mark e (mark e), Thursday, 25 May 2006 07:27 (sixteen years ago) link

It's the perfect artifact for postpunk fans who can't actually abide most of the real influences on postpunk - reggae, soul (actually, most "black" or ethnic musics), things which predate punk, anything that veers from pop song structure and so on.

wanker.

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Thursday, 25 May 2006 07:47 (sixteen years ago) link

Stump, Big Flame, Bogshed = The Shizznit

I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 07:57 (sixteen years ago) link

That "criticism" could have come from the NME in '86 or from Simon Reynolds in '06. Funny how it all comes around.

(xpost)

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:09 (sixteen years ago) link

Bodines - Therese

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:34 (sixteen years ago) link

Starting reading the NME in '89, C86 was definitely talked about as a real moment/movement - C81 wasn't, despite being a better compilation, it had been absorbed into postpunk and largely forgotten.

I know there's a few people on this board who 'were there' so to speak, I'd be interested to read more about how C86 was received.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:35 (sixteen years ago) link

I've never liked "Velocity Girl" BTW, don't even understand why people do, Gillespie's voice is teh shudder - "Therese" still sounds good tho.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:36 (sixteen years ago) link

C86 was definitely talked about as a real moment/movement - C81 wasn't, despite being a better compilation

Yes, and I still don't understand it.

Maybe because C81 showed style and diversity, whereas C86, by suggesting a hivemind, attracted a lot of bees.

or something.

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:38 (sixteen years ago) link

or because c81 was from longer ago?

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:45 (sixteen years ago) link

Enrique is right but only partially right - the NME did a C96 but not a C91, so C96 lingered longer in the memory.

I think also everybody agreed that C81 was a Good Thing - it's very rare for people to say "Stylistic diversity! Less of that please!" - whereas C86 was still talked about because it attracted real controversy, tying into (as I understand it) The Hip-Hop Wars etc.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:47 (sixteen years ago) link

British pop was a riot of activity circa 81 so maybe C81 got a bit drowned out in the middle of all that. New Pop had long turned Beige by 1986 and so C86 seemed like more of a "moment" for music press readers (like me) at the time, more of a reaction against prevailing pop trends than maybe its predecessor had been.

Venga (Venga), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:49 (sixteen years ago) link

Oxford was one of the cynosures of C86 - Tallulah Gosh et al - as well as its eventual mirror image, Riot Grrl (Huggy Bear were, surprise surprise, a moderately reconstituted Tallulah Gosh). Living there I understood the need for "community" which wasn't being satisfied by (for example) Def Jam or Chicago House imports, however great. That lineage I think extends directly to Belle and Sebastian/Sinister - that concept of a small group of like-minded people "protecting" themselves from the world. Not my world, but I don't dislike the idea.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:50 (sixteen years ago) link

C81 was fantastic and opened up a whole world of music to me (esp. from the James Blood Ulmer track) but i don't think it was meant to sum up a genre or a movement except one which siad hey you can listen to anything you like. But also I don't remember it being particularly neglected. C86 was a compilation of a genre/movement already in existence and a pretty narrow one at that - there are exceptions on it - I still pretty much liked it all though. And of course the half man half biscuit track is a classic.

Now any jazz douchebags want to talk about NME 013?

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:53 (sixteen years ago) link

xpost

All true. I spent 1986 exchanging mixtapes and twee badges with my penfriend and drinking a lot of milkshakes. I was listening to Hip Hop and House too, but I was totally part of that shambling scene. (which was the last time I ever felt like part of a subcult.)

I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:54 (sixteen years ago) link

NME013?

"Do it the hard wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...."

I loved that tape, but felt no need to buy any more jazz. So it goes, sometines.

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 08:56 (sixteen years ago) link

Unlike me - I went down to my local hepcat jazz emporium and bought Chet Baker, Charlie Parker and, some odd reason, (as he wasn't on NME013) Cecil Taylor - the man behind the counter looked at my purchases and said "Well, we've got catholic tastes haven't we?" I just grunted, naturally, and went home not knowing what he was going on about. Only when I played the Taylor after the Armstrong did I see his point.

I think I did this kind of thing with pretty much all those NME tapes. Has anyone got a list of them?

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:12 (sixteen years ago) link

What a patronising cunt he sounds. "Catholic tastes?" I would have sung The Sash My Faither Wore very loudly and beaten him about the head with a sock of rock custard.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:20 (sixteen years ago) link

i'd say the close lobsters and the wedding present sound better today than big flame or stump do. not to say they're better or more important bands, but the close lobsters or wedding present have next to no dated stylistic baggage (at that point)--everything's just an armature for pretty decent hooks.

on a tangential topic relating to dee's comment: i don't think those black or ethnic influences had evaporated at this point, they were just suppressed or redirected for the most part. but there's the example of the Dog Faced Hermans, who were influenced by the Ron Jonson/Big Flame axis heavily at first then reconstituted those ethnic influences in very interesting way.

And the Wedding Present had very overt ethnic influences at first--mostly from guitarist Pete Solowka, who was mainly responsible for their "Ukrainian sessions" in the late 80's and played on all the good WP records.

naturemorte (naturemorte), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:23 (sixteen years ago) link

OTM, marc.

There was a really good web page with all the NME cassette details on, but I can't find it.

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:24 (sixteen years ago) link

wouldn't you say stuff like derek bailey, peter brotzmann, and steve lacy are way more "catholic" sounding (of the self-flagellating variety) than chet baker and charlie parker?

naturemorte (naturemorte), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:25 (sixteen years ago) link

Taking Sides : C81 vs C86

Links/info on this one.

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:25 (sixteen years ago) link

Rightly or wrongly, I viewed C-86 at the time as a reaction to the opulence of the Big League indie bands. Things like "Bring On the Dancing Horses" by Echo and the Bunnymen and the Cocteau Twins' increasingly indulgent navel-gazing in their new studio (The Moon and the Melodies, anyone?). The shambling bands felt to me like an attempt, not to turn the clock back as such, but at least to make a "riot of their own".

That said, I've never owned a copy of the tape and think I only listened to it once.

Jeff W (zebedee), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:27 (sixteen years ago) link

What tracks were on C96?

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:34 (sixteen years ago) link

hahaha, fuck knows. i would imagine it was lots of chemikal underground stuff. i own it, presumably.

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:36 (sixteen years ago) link

Tiger!

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:38 (sixteen years ago) link

NOBODY DISSES THE MOON AND THE MELODIES ON MY WATCH

I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:40 (sixteen years ago) link

mogwai, baby bird, delgados, broadcast.

baby bird?

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:43 (sixteen years ago) link

Baby Bird put out 37 albums on his own label in 1996.

I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:44 (sixteen years ago) link

xxpost
Actually the only time I felt like that was in Eastern Bloc in the late 80s, where I couldn't actually give them money to buy a record because they were so ridiculously arsey. And I obviously wasn't the only one.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/story/0,,1261021,00.html

xpost - naturemorte - it was the Cecil Taylor album he was really commenting on - it was a pretty leftfield Cecil Taylor album and one which I didn't play again for about 10 years. Now, of course, up against, say, Merzbow, sounds a bit tame. Although not as tame as C86...

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:48 (sixteen years ago) link

Baby Bird makes me want to put a chisel to my ears in a way that Chris Martin could only dream of.

This weren't on C86, but maybe it shoulda been:
Wolfhounds - Anti-Midas Touch

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:50 (sixteen years ago) link

There's that 'Wolf' thing going again...

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:52 (sixteen years ago) link

(x-post: was it Graham Massey behind the counter?)

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:52 (sixteen years ago) link

Not Cecil's poetry record?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 09:55 (sixteen years ago) link

To close the loop here, I sat next to Bobby Gillespie at a Cecil Taylor gig once at the Jazz Cafe.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:01 (sixteen years ago) link

Maybe Cecil could have jammed with him to the tune of 'Gentle Tuesday'.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:02 (sixteen years ago) link

Hmmm. We seem to have got this far without me saying that the Age of Chance track still sounds fantastic. Which it does.

I Hate You Little Girls (noodle vague), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:04 (sixteen years ago) link

Wasn't Graham Massey on the stall at Afflecks Palace?

(Was that 'eastern bloc'? Something tells me no.)

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:08 (sixteen years ago) link

Eastern Bloc was on the ground floor of Afflecks so yes.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:10 (sixteen years ago) link

I didn't much care for the whole ethos represented on c86, and still don't, although IIRC a couple of the tracks were ok. (still got a copy somewhere in the attic) 15-20yrs of sloppy drummers, shit, shit, flat as a fart singers, amateurishness of the worst sort, shambolic bands, pitiful holier than thou approach to "success" (a couple of local indie bands in the nineties I knew actually SPLIT UP b/c they were on the verge of achieveing some sort of small-scale "success"), worst of all, the codifying of independent music as "indie" genre music, ugh. If I could go back in time and erase it from history, I would.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:12 (sixteen years ago) link

Norm, are you sure you're not mixing up ILM with Dissensus?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:15 (sixteen years ago) link

Ground floor? Wasn't that the hardware shop?

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:16 (sixteen years ago) link

Haha, no!? (x-post)

I haven't looked at dissensus in a couple of months, TBH. Am I missing owt?

Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:18 (sixteen years ago) link

The main reason for my c86 hate is doing live sound for many, many indie bands in the '90s, and just getting sick of the whole thing, & the whole sound over a period of time.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:20 (sixteen years ago) link

xpost

Ha ha Marcello - no, I think that was later, and what a joy that is...

I've searched high and low for a list of NME cassettes...if anyone comes across one can they post the link here?

There was a hardware store in Afflecks Palace?

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:20 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, sort of 'cheap floor mops' and such like.

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 May 2006 10:23 (sixteen years ago) link

I guess Bogshed don't really fit with the rest of the bands (like Age of Chance and arguably Big Flame) - they've mostly gone for the sort of twee jangly bands that "C86" now refers to rather than what was on the C86 tape.

I have 2 Bogshed records, I'd have rather put them on there than, say, Mighty Lemon Drops, but there you go.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Monday, 4 September 2006 17:50 (sixteen years ago) link

totally agree re AOC, but then i would ..

for more AOC insight into the whole C86 groove :

http://ireallylovemusic.co.uk/interviews/irlm_vs_aoc.html

shameless i know, but hey, it is relevant.


mark e (mark e), Monday, 4 September 2006 18:52 (sixteen years ago) link

James Blood Ulmer was on one of these things?!

Sundar (sundar), Monday, 4 September 2006 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...

In response to a request above, there's full tracklistings of the NME tapes of the 80s, from C81 all the way to Indie City (1988), at the following:

http://bazooka81.livejournal.com/

Includes artwork and commentary on each tape.

Steve W, Thursday, 23 August 2007 07:28 (fifteen years ago) link

That's a great page.

Some illuminations, some opinions you may or may not violently dis/agree with, but it's a useful way of finding out (for me, anyway), which ones I missed.

"I dreamed I was Elvis" is a great title, but boy wha a lousy sleeve. Was "design-generic" the byword for a while?

Mark G, Thursday, 23 August 2007 10:14 (fifteen years ago) link

It's great to have the tracklistings in one place. If only that blog has the actual music as well...

Mr. Odd, Thursday, 23 August 2007 10:54 (fifteen years ago) link

i love the c86 compilation. i really do (i'm into tons of other shit, though). but, yeah, the third post in this thread = otm x 1,000,000.

andi, Thursday, 23 August 2007 11:22 (fifteen years ago) link

oh, but wait. i'm talking about shit like shop assistants, though (i like 'em). let's not mess with ron johnson bands here.

andi, Thursday, 23 August 2007 11:24 (fifteen years ago) link

The (majority of the) people on C86 were (at least) 5 years younger than those on C81, so is it really so surprising that they "sounded like bands who'd listened almost exclusively to postpunk"? After all, it's what they grew up with...

Tom D., Thursday, 23 August 2007 11:29 (fifteen years ago) link

You had your Right But Repulsive roundheads on one side – the volubly politicised Soul fans (biggest error: their belief that hip-hop was inherently left-wing, rather than, for the most part, brutally and rapaciously capitalist). On the other, you had the Wrong But Romantic cavaliers, who still believed in Rock as profound and redemptive and allied to something like the counter-cultures of previous rock eras (biggest error: thinking that The Long Ryders were the future of anything).

!!

bendy, Thursday, 23 August 2007 13:20 (fifteen years ago) link

the third post in this thread = otm x 1,000,000.

No, it's a complete load of bollocks actually. Name one band on this album who fits the description of "artists who took the beauty of Young Marble Giants and turned it into insipidness, "noise" bands with little wit, humor or overt intelligence".

I think it's being overlooked that the whole point of the compliation was not principally to let people hear these songs but to introduce people to new bands (at a time when hearing new stuff was not particularly easy). Folks who listened to this went out and bought records like "George Best", "Sonic Flower Groove", "Quirk Out", "I Am A Wallet", "1000 Years of Trouble", "Headache Rhetoric", "Back In The DHSS", "Bright And Guilty", "Up For A Bit With The Pastels" etc - all fine albums. Later on they bought "A Fierce Pancake", "Seamonsters", "Sittin' Pretty", "This Leaden Pall", "Screamadelica" and "Emperor Tomato Ketchup" - all brilliant albums produced by bands included here, or their later incarnations.

If there's not some stuff in that lot that floats your boat then I'm afraid you've permanently run aground.

everything, Thursday, 23 August 2007 17:04 (fifteen years ago) link

oh, i love that comp., don't get me wrong here. but, eh, it's legacy has just become more than a bit off putting. i think you got a point in that post there, everything. i really never thought about that, and i'm sure you're probably right. just, all the shitheads i know really into c86 and twee are just bumbling, rockist, ironic morons, though.

maybe my disdain should be directed at a lot of the fans of it. it shouldn't matter what you're influenced by as long as you have cool intentions and catchy songs. i might have been wrong. the whole thing is really confusing and i need to think about it more.

though, i probably do have every c86 record ever made. and, at least as far as artists in that non-"scene" at the time, i really know what i'm talking about. i'll only lump bands like the ex and talulah gosh together for the sake of convenience (and what most people understand), i know their both very far apart. it's hard to talk about c86, when really, we're really talking about two "scenes".

andi, Friday, 24 August 2007 05:25 (fifteen years ago) link

they're*

and, i just love the sound of all this junk.

andi, Friday, 24 August 2007 05:26 (fifteen years ago) link

Wait, what do the Ex have to do with C86?

Colonel Poo, Friday, 24 August 2007 09:50 (fifteen years ago) link

They were on Ron Johnson records, along with Stump, BigFlame? etc..

Apart from that, no.

Mark G, Friday, 24 August 2007 10:19 (fifteen years ago) link

Really, I didn't know they were on Ron Johnson. Which records?

Colonel Poo, Friday, 24 August 2007 10:33 (fifteen years ago) link

I have the Spanish Civil war double single with book, that certainly was.

Mark G, Friday, 24 August 2007 10:39 (fifteen years ago) link

Too Many Cowboys was as well

DJ Mencap, Friday, 24 August 2007 11:35 (fifteen years ago) link

two scenes for one. one's ice cream, one's shit-pie.

andi, Friday, 24 August 2007 11:51 (fifteen years ago) link

That Ex single with the book was apparently one of the reasons Ron Johnson went under. Losing money on every copy ala "Blue Monday".

everything, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:20 (fifteen years ago) link

I can see why: It's a thing of beauty.

Mark G, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:23 (fifteen years ago) link

Found the quote from Dave Parsons, the man behind the label:

"The Ex double-single was a fiasco of Rough Trade's making - they sold it at a price that was lower than the manufacturing cost and because it was reviewed as such amazing product for such amazing price felt that they couldn't put the price up - it sold 15000 copies and RJ lost £15000! Fantastic. The only band who ever made a profit in RJ were A Witness and they have a right to feel slightly aggreived. I gave 24 hours of my life for 7 years to RJ, lost my house, never made a penny and was eventually bankrupted because I loved the music."

everything, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:30 (fifteen years ago) link

That's from sometime ILM poster Rhodri Marsden's Ron Johnson page by the way.

everything, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:31 (fifteen years ago) link

that'll be 24 hours per day, rather than 24 hours over 7 years, right?

Mark G, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:35 (fifteen years ago) link

Either one seems unrealistic really.

everything, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link

ok, 24 hours a week.

Mark G, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link

...7 weeks a year.

everything, Friday, 24 August 2007 16:37 (fifteen years ago) link

that's why i say don't fuck with ron johnson.

andi, Saturday, 25 August 2007 07:39 (fifteen years ago) link

six years pass...

28 years...

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19423-c86/

mine arrived today. someone really needs to add the 72 titles / bandnames into cddb.

koogs, Wednesday, 11 June 2014 17:20 (eight years ago) link

one year passes...

"C87 imagines what the NME compilers might have chosen, had they revisited the idea one year later, choosing music from mid-1986 through 1987."

http://louderthanwar.com/cherry-red-announce-line-up-for-c87-box-set-c86-imagined-one-year-later/

could have sworn that in 87 the NME was covering a lot of hip hop ...

mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 14:29 (six years ago) link

a lot of those i have on those melody maker indie top 20 tapes, especially vol2 - http://www.bandplanet.co.uk/Oldsite/indietop20s.htm

koogs, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 14:53 (six years ago) link

OK, so it's Cherry Red so you don't expect much care but anyway, at first glance that is a pretty half-assed compilation. I mean yeah, it doesn't cover what the NME was going on about in '87 in any kind of comprehensive way. They literally never covered some of those bands EVER. One of them appeared on the cover and the editor got sacked. If it was a genuine attempt to do an NME thing from '87 then they'd need things like Trouble Funk, Colourfield, Def Jam, Salt'n'Pepa, That Petrol Emotion, Michel Shocked, Coldcut etc.

But let's put that aside and accept that "C86" has nothing to do with NME or even the C86 cassette anymore.

There was the CD86 from a year or two ago that more or less did the same thing. If this is supposed to supplement that by reviewing the situation from a year later, then they haven't put much thought into it. Some of them ("Poised Over The Pause Button", "Pristine Christine", "I Could Be in Heaven", "Franz Hals", "Ask Johnny Dee", "Golden Shower" others) already appeared on CD86. Others, eg. The Bachelor Pad song are b-sides of songs from CD86 so where is the supposed progression.

I don't have any problem with endless genre comps but c'mon, you have to find new tracks and preferably stuff that fits the concept of the comp.

everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 21:51 (six years ago) link

it doesn't cover what the NME was going on about in '87 in any kind of comprehensive way.

exactly my point.

as proven by :

http://www.nme.com/bestalbumsandtracksoftheyear/1987

in 1987 the nme was my fucking bible for music with beats and noise, and this compilation is the worst kind of revisionism.

mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 22:09 (six years ago) link

Revisionism is right. It's telling that they have picked more retro songs from bands that were moving from indie to beats that year. ie. "Sweet Sweet Pie" instead of something from "Box Frenzy", or "Young Till Yesterday" rather than "Christopher Mayhew Says". Even "Hang Ten!" (1986) rather than the more sophisticated "Head Gone Astray". Or the Mackenzies "New Breed" rather than the much more futuristic "Mealy Mouths" from the same year (1986 btw so fuck this concept we invented for the comp).

Fact is the likes of the Shamen or PWEI would have gone nowhere if they had continued doing indie/60s/punk influenced stuff and they had few fans till they switched that up. Everyone, especially the NME, knew that style was moribund.

You could pick holes in this all day.

everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 22:31 (six years ago) link

Still a great jam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37TO9Dmaoz0

everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 22:42 (six years ago) link

"C87 imagines what the NME compilers might have chosen, had they revisited the idea one year later, choosing music from mid-1986 through 1987."

Jesus Christ Almighty, wtf?!?!?

By the way, re-reading this thread:

it was an artificial attempt to mimic the 1981 NME/Rough Trade cassette - which was borne out of a real movement

What movement were Robert Wyatt, Linx and Cabaret Voltaire (to name but three) a part of?

Demeraray & Essequebo (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:00 (six years ago) link

Don't agree with that post in any way but think it's refering to DIY cassette culture - the C81 cassette as a product, rather than it's contents?

everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:12 (six years ago) link

now, if they had included the baby amphetamine 12", then maybe, just maybe i would have been interested.

mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:16 (six years ago) link

nme vs 1987 summed up here :

http://www.creation-records.com/classic-interviews1-baby-amphetamine/

mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:17 (six years ago) link

Don't agree with that post in any way but think it's refering to DIY cassette culture - the C81 cassette as a product, rather than it's contents?

Oh right, well in that case maybe the Door and the Window or 49 Americans (or whoever) should have taken preference over James Blood Ulmer. As far as I can see, the movement in question seemed to be the movement of artists involved with Rough Trade in some capacity or other.

Demeraray & Essequebo (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:19 (six years ago) link

haha-yeah. Particularly since Linx and the Specials were replaced by Panther Burns and TV Personalities in the reissue.

An interesting theory about C86 is that it was part of the "hip-hop wars" at the NME. A handful of their writers who mostly were into post-punk indie guitar stuff wanted to try to carve out a scene separate from where the general editorial direction of the paper. So that would have precluded Baby Amphetamine presumably.

everything, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:23 (six years ago) link

An interesting theory about C86 is that it was part of the "hip-hop wars" at the NME. A handful of their writers who mostly were into post-punk indie guitar stuff wanted to try to carve out a scene separate from where the general editorial direction of the paper.

i would suggest that this was the core of the hip hop wars.
at the time, i was a young country boy with no access to NYC 12" records,
but somehow, the nme made me excited and connected to the scene, and i loved their coverage of this new world.
that and the electro/street sounds compilations.
hence why this boxset is fucked up.
if the compilers genuinely believe that this is the natural conclusion to c86.
i mean, and yes, i have to do this, look at age of chance.
in 86, they were clearly part of the c86 scene with their shambolic early releases.
whereas by 87, they along with others, had moved on, and were making music that reflected the new era with record label stretching demands.
but this boxset does little to reflect that change.
(and yeah, the presence of a brilliantly bonkers GBOA track does not count !)

mark e, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 23:38 (six years ago) link

yes, there's a few great, under-appreciated songs/bands on here: GBOA, Bachelor Pad, Great Leap Forward. There's also a lot of stuff that I'm fine with but totally over-compiled.We need a moritorium on any rerelease of "Ask Johnny Dee", "Get Out of My Dream", "Pristine Christine" and the like.

Then there's so much stuff that's just terrible LOL.

everything, Thursday, 11 February 2016 00:21 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

Feels like the idea that this stuff never went anywhere and doesn't matter has turned around since this thread was started. Not the Ron Jonson/Bogshed stuff but the indie/60s/punk hybrids. So many of the young local bands here talk about that stuff, and emulate the sound and aesthetics. The music is now accessible and festivals like indietracks and Popfest are giving the original bands motivation to reform.

There's dozens of undiscovered gems waiting to be compiled (plus lots of trash of course). I wish someone would do more crate digging and compiling from the 1984-1988 period.

everything, Friday, 28 April 2017 19:18 (five years ago) link

Are you aware of the excellent Cherry Red box sets: C86 (3CD), C87 (3CD) and the forthcoming C88 (3CD)? Also, there's a 5 disc set called "Scared To Get Happy" which really digs deeply into this area.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 28 April 2017 19:20 (five years ago) link

Yes, I trashed them upthread LOL. No, I'm actually okay with them other than the repetition of bands and tracks. It's like if the Pretty Things and the Standells had to be included on every Nuggets/Pebbles etc compilation. No, they're on the first one and after that it's one-off releases by bands you've never heard of. The compilers compete to find tracks that haven't been comped. With this stuff it's as if there's only two CDs worth of good stuff and after that you have to move on to the post-Sarah Records era.

everything, Friday, 28 April 2017 19:32 (five years ago) link

Also more digging into unreleased stuff by the well-known bands. With the difficulty of producing and releasing records back then there's tons of recordings that have never seen the light of day. I know there's mid-80s stuff from the prehistory of Teenage Fanclub, Vaselines, Bachelor Pad, etc or radio sessions and the like that aren't available.

everything, Friday, 28 April 2017 19:44 (five years ago) link

Ah, good point, especially radio sessions. I imagine the legalities are an issue there, but looking at the "Keeping It Peel" site there's TONS of one-off band sessions that I'm sure have a killer cut contained within them.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 29 April 2017 03:58 (five years ago) link

five years pass...

New book on C86 coming out on 18th August, preceded by a Guardian interview with the author.

Reel lives: how I tracked down the class of NME’s C86 album

Portsmouth Bubblejet, Monday, 8 August 2022 11:29 (five months ago) link

five months pass...

The book's a fun read. Cool to read retrospective article of the sort that Mojo etc do for more major artists but obviously would never touch 90% of this lot. He interviews at least one person, usually more, from each band. It's a bit like the tape - some chapters are stand-outs, some are forgettable. The more successful artists tend to be a bit boring while the ones who never went anywhere have their own story to tell. The Stump chapter is very good, Bogshed and Miaow also. I enjoyed the McCarthy, Close Lobsters & Wolfhounds chapters too, since these are the records that stand up nowadays in my opinion, plus the interviewees are interesting. If you have any interest in these bands you have to read this.

The Pastels chapter is a favourite, not because of Stephen Pastel, who's life has the appearance of being completely uneventful and static for three decades. It's because of their former drummer Berniece Simpson effortlessly skewering Pastel (who we find out fired the original band via a lawyer's letter) by having a very successful and happy non-musical career and family, and very pointedly defining her decade as an indie musician as a young person's game.

everything, Monday, 23 January 2023 21:11 (two weeks ago) link


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