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I really dug the EP but I heard a re-recorded version of "Dimension" (which I think is for the full-length) and it sounded worse :(

Renard (Renard), Friday, 17 February 2006 21:00 (eighteen years ago) link

what am i supposed to do with that

Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Friday, 17 February 2006 21:05 (eighteen years ago) link

Ah, at last, the mother of all Wolf bands.

drewo (drewo), Friday, 17 February 2006 21:07 (eighteen years ago) link

shit

VIDEO STRESS (blastocyst), Friday, 17 February 2006 22:40 (eighteen years ago) link

ihttp://www.thecobrasnake.com/partyphotos/motherwolf/images/IMG_3861.jpg

Eppy (Eppy), Friday, 17 February 2006 22:59 (eighteen years ago) link

posted that shit on the 3.6 thread yo

team jaxon (jaxon), Friday, 17 February 2006 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link

ok, obviously cobrasnake's photos are hipsterbation and you guys are all hate all the time on that, which is fine... but the album's pretty good, no?

firstworldman (firstworldman), Friday, 17 February 2006 23:24 (eighteen years ago) link

no.

what i wrote on the metal thread (in response to somebody else):

>You could say they are to their influences what Wolfmother is to Black Sabbath. <

No way. Doomfoxx come way closer to Rose Tattoo than Wolfmother (whose EP I'm listening to right now) come to Sabbath. I don't think I even would have guessed Sabbath is what Wolfmother were aiming for if you hadn't said so. They sound like a weedy little indie rock band to me - say, Secret Machines wannabees with a Jack White wannabe singing. And Secret Machines aren't even that good. And yeah, I guess a "stoner riff" (trademark symbol here) comes in now and then, but it's like some joke "'70s show" version or something, to my ears. They seem not to know how to rock, just to zoom their churn in the air a bit. Or I got it -- they're part of that Black Mountain/Gris Gris/Warlocks "Hawkwind with the rocking parts taken out" genre maybe?

-- xhuxk (xedd...), January 23rd, 2006

xhuxk, Friday, 17 February 2006 23:26 (eighteen years ago) link

it's very strange to me that you can't hear the sabbath in there. i have no idea whether or not they're " authentic " or not, but it sounds pretty rocking to me. granted i spend all day listening to gay disco and sad classical, so what the hell do i know anyway? I haven't heard Gris Gris, don't like the Warlocks, but Black Mountain are good too, and they're so different from the bands that you mentioned that your previous statement about the Sabbath thing makes a lot of sense.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Friday, 17 February 2006 23:31 (eighteen years ago) link

that one part of Dimension -- "purple haze is in the sky / see the angels wink on high" -- is totally Sabb.

that track and White Unicorn are both cool.

Renard (Renard), Friday, 17 February 2006 23:50 (eighteen years ago) link

pictures from a concert? OMG BROOKLYN VEGAN SYNDROME

midi sanskrit (sanskrit), Friday, 17 February 2006 23:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Stop trying to have a serious conversation about this throwaway Cobrasnake band and JUST FUCKIN THROW ON "SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH"

VIDEO STRESS (blastocyst), Friday, 17 February 2006 23:57 (eighteen years ago) link

really liked the EP, have to say the LP is a bit of a letdown. still enjoyable though

sovietpanda (sovietpanda), Saturday, 18 February 2006 00:11 (eighteen years ago) link

ut it sounds pretty rocking to me. granted i spend all day listening to gay disco and sad classical, so what the hell do i know anyway?

i'm right there with you, but seriously, Black Mountian?! i listened to them thinking they were gonna be some stoney rockin band and it sounded like some crap radiohead indie band. i haven't heard Wolfmother, probably never will, but i don't think you know how to rock.

team jaxon (jaxon), Saturday, 18 February 2006 00:11 (eighteen years ago) link

i hate you all

electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Saturday, 18 February 2006 02:36 (eighteen years ago) link

blastocyst, jim OTM.

doctor wu-tang clan analog brothers (haitch), Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:01 (eighteen years ago) link

THEY HAVE A SONG CALLED "TALES FROM THE FOREST OF GNOMES", I MEAN SERIOUSLY PEOPLE WTF.

jaxon where do I get a 3-6 shirt like that?

doctor wu-tang clan analog brothers (haitch), Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:06 (eighteen years ago) link

hah. that's not me (guess it sorta looks like me?). that's some cobrasnake hipster

team jaxon (jaxon), Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:26 (eighteen years ago) link

haha whoops! don't mind me, I'm drunk.

I had to endure wolfmother at a rock festival recently where they were the headliners, and it was all spectacular lightshow and volume and precious little else. cut to the next day, where the band that closed the festival (melbourne guys legends of motorsport) took the same ingredients (big riffs, organ, screaming vox) and totally blew away the previous night's nonsense, and also didn't sound like a really poor deep purple impression. but of course most people had left by then.

doctor wu-tang clan analog brothers (haitch), Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:32 (eighteen years ago) link

"purple haze is in the sky / see the angels wink on high"

i thought you were joking, but no, the video at this link

http://www.musicremedy.com/audio/4953

confirms that is the actual lyric sung. "totally Sabb." more like totally gay

|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l| (eman), Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:39 (eighteen years ago) link

ihttp://www.thecobrasnake.com/partyphotos/motherwolf/IMG_3556.html

it looks like this guy was recently punched in the left eye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

frederi, Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:54 (eighteen years ago) link

pretty sure this is david cross in a wig:

http://www.thecobrasnake.com/partyphotos/motherwolf/images/IMG_3801.jpg

|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l| (eman), Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:55 (eighteen years ago) link

^ with fans like these, who needs music?

|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l| (eman), Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:56 (eighteen years ago) link

FUCK OFF

Just FUCK OFF will you?

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!! (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Saturday, 18 February 2006 04:56 (eighteen years ago) link

(xpost) l-r: dom, esteban

|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l| (eman), Saturday, 18 February 2006 05:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Um, I wan't telling you to fuck off.

Here's a winky face: ;-)

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!! (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Saturday, 18 February 2006 05:12 (eighteen years ago) link

=|;o{>

|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l| (eman), Saturday, 18 February 2006 06:02 (eighteen years ago) link

In response to Chuck - the track 'Woman' is obviously influenced by early Black Sabbath, but subsequent singles reveal that each new track has another (always 70's) reference point - a specific hard rock song by a specific act. Hawkwind, surprisingly, isn't among the influences, or at least not as far as the member I spoke to is concerned - I mentioned Hawkwind to him about a year ago and he'd never heard of them, which surprised me.

There's a lot of this in Australia at the moment. Chuck misunderstood my point in the quote he posted above and appeared to restate it, thinking he was disagreeing with me(though I don't share his views about the 'foxies at all). Each song by these new acts is a kind of epigone of some 70's hard rock act. As has now become clear, the target varies from one song to the next with the 'wolfies, though never with the 'foxies. The next cab off the rank is Airb0rne, doing something very like early AC/DC. No doubt they'll be in your reviews tray before too long Mr Eddy.

ratty, Saturday, 18 February 2006 23:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Problem is, Wolfmother don 't really sound like '70s hard rock.

George, on the metal thread:

Howler hype of the day: In the Saturday LA Times -- "The Aussie trio [Wolfmother] showcase a sonic grandeur and freewheeling song structure that has earned them deserving comparisons with Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin." This from a newspaper features section where none of the music writers ever cover anything that actually has anything to do with the LZ and BS vintage sounds invoked.
This follows last Sunday's entry, You Know That Just Ain't Right:
Blurb in Amoeba's ad in the Sunday LA Times on an instore show by Wolfmother -- "Like the bastard son of Uriah Heep and Jimi Hendrix..."

Uriah Heep, Jimi Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin. That about cover's it. Wolfmother, the magic elixir of heavy rock, including everything for all people who don't like hard rock, have to write about it once or twice, and have this to glom onto.

-- George the Animal Steele (george_the_animal_steele...), February 18th, 2006.

xhuxk, Sunday, 19 February 2006 00:20 (eighteen years ago) link

i take it back, the EP i heard had total Sabbath style fuzzy hi-mid sounding production. this new thing of theirs is meant to be played on the radio and it's not very good at all.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Sunday, 19 February 2006 02:19 (eighteen years ago) link

the opinions on '70s copyism in this thread seem almost exactly divided between people who heard the debut EP or saw them play before that, and Americans who have just received local promos of the award-winning number one album. how perhaps-not-curious-at-all - interviews with the band repeatedly credit producer D. Sardy with making them rewrite the songs to get away from the endlessly riffing sludgy Sabbath/Purple mode that home audiences had come to know the band in.

kit brash (kit brash), Sunday, 19 February 2006 02:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Some of the burble coming from the distribution of promos in America comes from people who have no idea what they're talking about. The ridiculous citations and hype is a dead giveaway.

George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 19 February 2006 02:53 (eighteen years ago) link

I heard the EP. not the album. And I am American. I really don't care what bands they namedrop to interviewers; not sure how that has anything to do with how they actually sound.

xhuxk, Sunday, 19 February 2006 05:13 (eighteen years ago) link

(though to be technical, i guess i'm not positive that the EP i heard was a DEBUT. I'm pretty sure it was, unless they're being promoted by an EP sampler from the album in the States.)

xhuxk, Sunday, 19 February 2006 05:32 (eighteen years ago) link

i don't know... i got some sort of ep... probably about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago. the songs that were on it have been completely rerecorded.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Sunday, 19 February 2006 05:52 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah the first four-song EP was all home recordings. everything since is from the album sessions

electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Sunday, 19 February 2006 05:55 (eighteen years ago) link

and they deliberately deleted the EP once the songs had all been re-recorded.

Xhuxk, I was intending to point up that in their post-album interviews the band have been going out of their way to DENY all the 70's name-drop references that every single person who saw them play in the six-month hypefest after their first gigs walked away concluding for themselves, and claim that the songs themselves don't even sound like that anymore.

kit brash (kit brash), Sunday, 19 February 2006 07:54 (eighteen years ago) link

The one guy looks like the guy from Supergrass. Supergrass are one of the worst bands to ever pick up instruments. Thus, I will be ignoring Wolfmother from here on out.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 19 February 2006 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link

> Supergrass are one of the worst bands to ever pick up instruments. <

Nah, their first album was okay! It's just been steadily downhill ever since.

xhuxk, Sunday, 19 February 2006 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link

You just can't take anyone seriously, or believe anything about the band, when a debut that's not even in stores in my neck of the woods, is immediately tossed onto the plate with Black Sabbath etc. The claim of being something that's a combination of Uriah Heep AND Hendrix is exceptional. Even if it could possibly be partially true, and you are a fan of both, you'd have in your mind re Wolfmother: AVOID.

But that's the state of nonsense that's normal in hyping something as inconsequential as a new hard rock/metal band. For example, the material that came on the Sword in e-mail on Friday was of similar cloth. The Sword are being towed around on the undercard of the Early Man tour, appearing at a very small club in LA on Saturday night, accompanied by more delirious howlers comparing them to the standard 70's namechecks, furnishing riffs so compelling you'll soil yourself, taken from urban slum publications that received the promo copy late last year. Wish I'd kept the e-mail instead of hitting the delete. I'd repost it now.

Does anyone who is not a fool believe this stuff? I just don't think it's an effective way to promote an act. I'd be bummed if I were in a band and saw it written. You'd think to yourself "surely no one could be so stupid as to believe this trash."

George the Animal Steele, Sunday, 19 February 2006 17:24 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
But if anyone is looking to cut and paste for their record review Ben Domenech style, here's a goldmine: Mark Morford regurgitates every cliche you can think of on his hype piece today (which, to be fair, is on sfgate's culture blog, which leads me to believe he actually does believe the things he's saying, which, I guess, is his perogative).

kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link

The fact remains - no matter how good or bad, real metal fans will never buy albums by Wolfmother, The Sword (the worst of the bunch, I think), Witch, etc. This isn't a reflection on the music necessarily - I don't know any metal fans (and I know a lot - the heavy metal parking lot type, mostly old Maiden fans fighting in vain against the ravages of old age / good sense, and the newer, chain wallet sporting Lamb of God / Dimebag RIP types) that even know who Om or Kalas is. Maybe some have heard Sleep, but even that's probably a stretch. You can try to argue, but I dare you to survey the crowd at an Opeth show, or a Hate Eternal show, and ask them at random how many albums they own on Kemado or Teepee or Troubleman or Matador. This is the harsh reality, folks, no matter how much hyperbole and bullshit you put behind a band of longhairs playing blues progressions through Orange amplification.

Leach Woman, Wednesday, 29 March 2006 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

That's prob'ly rate in most of these cases. The Gooze, a friend of mine is a Maiden/Dimebag fanatic, he bought Wolfmother and said it was going back into circulation at the used store. There's always an exception to the rule so maybe if they get luck..

Semi-entertaining and certainly enthusiastic review even though Wolfmother don't sound like the best of Ozzy Black Sabbath or mega-fuzzy 70's arena rock which wasn't that fuzzy really. Technical bit of info: Yes, Pagey used a Tonebender fuzz into his Marshalls but, like everyone else, he didn't use it to cover everything in ZZZZZZ and hair, you used them to juice sustain, thickness and crunch on the tone.

Why do the reviews that namecheck 70's arena rock never mention Foghat or Nugent? Or ELP? Man, up until '74 ELP had coined and ruined superstadium rock.
Nice Frazetta/Dean-esque art.(or maybe they did drag Dean out of semi-retirement or whoever the new Dean/Frazetta is). Very 70's and if you bought the LP on the basis of it back then you'd probably be happy with it for a couple weeks. Dean did a couple Heap covers but Wolfmother don't sound like that either.

George 'the Animal' Steele, Wednesday, 29 March 2006 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link

And ELP DID sound fuzzy by dint of Palmers synths. They really fuzzed and fizzed.

George 'the Animal' Steele, Wednesday, 29 March 2006 16:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Whoops, ERROR. Make that Emerson's synths. How could I be so stupid? I love some ELP.

George 'the Animal' Steele, Wednesday, 29 March 2006 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

All arguments about authenticity aside, everything I've heard by this band sounds good for about the first 4 seconds then puts me to sleep. One of their early EPs was recommended by a usually on-point friend of mine, so I tried to get into it more than I would most music. After repeated listens I can't remember a single lick or lyric by this band.

Exact same situation for Sword, except I didn't try as hard to like them.

josh in sf (stfu kthx), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 18:55 (eighteen years ago) link

RE: Nice Frazetta/Dean-esque art.(or maybe they did drag Dean out of semi-retirement or whoever the new Dean/Frazetta is). Very 70's and if you bought the LP on the basis of it back then you'd probably be happy with it for a couple weeks. Dean did a couple Heap covers but Wolfmother don't sound like that either.

-- George 'the Animal' Steele (georg...), March 29th, 2006. (later)


The artwork is original Frazetta...

glenny g2003 (glenny g2003), Thursday, 30 March 2006 00:08 (eighteen years ago) link

The artwork is originally RETARDED!!!

Esteban Buttez Goes To College, Thursday, 30 March 2006 00:23 (eighteen years ago) link

So, any scuttlebutt as to why the two dudes left or is it obvious?

badg, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 02:28 (fifteen years ago) link

'longstanding personal and musical differences'

probably just hated the fuck out of each other

balls by titleist (electricsound), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 02:32 (fifteen years ago) link

lolngstanding, that'll learn them for practicing for so long

badg, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 02:33 (fifteen years ago) link

the singer and two new dudes

*three* new dudes, he's switched things up man!

old band: there were months of trying to persuade them to stick it out, then one dude quit and the other dude said "wait for me!" fast enough for this detail to actually be in the press release

saw the drummer play for someone else about six months ago, and they evidently hadn't been allowed to use his name when listing the backing band for the tour, he was identified as "a major LA session dude" or some such. organ/bass dude was in the audience grooving.

IRL Consequences by Godley & Creme (sic), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 03:13 (fifteen years ago) link

lol the picture. "here i am with all of my vintage gear, and all of my friends, aka half a dude on a couch"

http://www.wolfmother.com/images/andrew_studio-1.jpg

butt-rock miyagi (rogermexico.), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 03:59 (fifteen years ago) link

dead ringer for jay reatard

k3vin k., Tuesday, 31 March 2009 04:39 (fifteen years ago) link

dead ringer for a retard

ilx's funniest posts, hosted by otm bergeron (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 04:39 (fifteen years ago) link

six months pass...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mxYmtCsiL._SS500_.jpg

this album came out this week and it rocks!

Bee OK, Wednesday, 28 October 2009 03:47 (fourteen years ago) link

...how?

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 October 2009 03:47 (fourteen years ago) link

more like sucks rocks

any old tawny port in a storm (electricsound), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 03:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Much like how bowel cancer rocks, I presume.

beloved ilx character (King Boy Pato), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 03:51 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't live near dis guy anymore :(

wilter, Wednesday, 28 October 2009 03:56 (fourteen years ago) link

local sports radio jocks big upping this urgh

bitter about emo (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 04:05 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm sure every idiot Australian indie radio personality is hawking this rubbish if I cared to listen.

beloved ilx character (King Boy Pato), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 04:06 (fourteen years ago) link

I heard one of the new songs on teh radio and fuck it was boring

wilter, Wednesday, 28 October 2009 04:07 (fourteen years ago) link

the record that will ruin alan moulder's career

any old tawny port in a storm (electricsound), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 04:08 (fourteen years ago) link

RIP, heaven needed a moulder to cry on

lad: "et tu, lady?" (haitch), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 04:43 (fourteen years ago) link

moulder old dough

any old tawny port in a storm (electricsound), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 04:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Cosmic Egg vs Cosmic Nipple

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/sexymollusk/COSMICNIPPLELP.jpg

i ain't no daggum son of a gun (latebloomer), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 05:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh Alanpaws...

Lord Byron Bay of Pigs (SeekAltRoute), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 06:03 (fourteen years ago) link

I like their classic sound, and they have some cool guitar riffs, but they need someone to write and arrange the songs for them.

nicky lo-fi, Wednesday, 28 October 2009 10:29 (fourteen years ago) link

instead of DJ Dave from 2Dogs?

RAPTOBER (sic), Wednesday, 28 October 2009 12:42 (fourteen years ago) link

I like two songs on the new one: "White Feather" and "Far Away." They are so much better the less they try to "rock."

Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 5 November 2009 01:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Classic damned by faint praise. Better when they don't try to rock for a rock band is like saying they ought to pack it in, more or less.

Gorge, Thursday, 5 November 2009 02:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Or become a different kind of band. The guy has a voice.

Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 5 November 2009 19:27 (fourteen years ago) link

they ought to pack it in, more or less.

quaq quao, sweetie (electricsound), Thursday, 5 November 2009 22:35 (fourteen years ago) link

one year passes...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/entertainment/music/rock-star-andrew-stockdale-takes-car-parking-to-new-level/story-e6freqgx-1225956814143

WOLFMOTHER frontman Andrew Stockdale allegedly played the role of both the joker and the thief recently when he was said to have been involved in a bit of carpark rage at the Merthyr Village shopping precinct at New Farm.

A Confidential reader says she was pulling into a park when the bushy-haired guitarist gunned his white hatchback against the oncoming traffic and grabbed the spot.

When she began to remonstrate with the wayward rocker, his identity dawned on her, and he proudly confirmed that he was indeed the Andrew Stockdale from Wolfmother.

The pair became involved in a vigorous debate in front of curious onlookers before Andrew walked away with the words "peace and love, peace and love".

To say the least, the lady was not impressed.

yuoowemeone, Friday, 19 November 2010 23:05 (thirteen years ago) link

it was the least surprising thing ever when the dude from Re5in Dogs lasted less than a year as new sideman in this band

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Saturday, 20 November 2010 07:21 (thirteen years ago) link

"his white hatchback" is pretty funny but "he proudly confirmed that he was indeed the Andrew Stockdale from Wolfmother" totally killed me.

Pro Bono Impersonator (King Boy Pato), Saturday, 20 November 2010 07:34 (thirteen years ago) link

eight months pass...

the band playing at the time "took exception to that".

Who? Well, I've never heard of Mogwai. (electricsound), Friday, 22 July 2011 04:48 (twelve years ago) link

it's the fine that had to be levied

Omega-3 fatty acid house (haitch), Friday, 22 July 2011 04:51 (twelve years ago) link

sadly i have been unable to confirm the band in question

Who? Well, I've never heard of Mogwai. (electricsound), Friday, 22 July 2011 04:56 (twelve years ago) link

That bar is pretty awesome, they stock pretty much only ~craft beers~

yuoowemeone, Friday, 22 July 2011 04:58 (twelve years ago) link

*Australian craft beers I mean

yuoowemeone, Friday, 22 July 2011 04:59 (twelve years ago) link

xxp wouldn't it be great if it was, like, chisel doing a secret warmup for that reformation tour of theirs

Omega-3 fatty acid house (haitch), Friday, 22 July 2011 04:59 (twelve years ago) link

:(

yuoowemeone, Friday, 22 July 2011 06:44 (twelve years ago) link

seven months pass...

it was the least surprising thing ever when the dude from Re5in Dogs lasted less than a year as new sideman in this band

― i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Saturday, 20 November 2010 18:21 (1 year ago)

Now onto their fourth lineup in as many years, with a dude who used to draw metal band logos onto his pencilcase during high-school exams on drums, freed up because he couldn't deal with the egotistical irascibility of the singer in The Vin3s anymore. So that's sure to last.

┗|∵|┓ (sic), Wednesday, 21 March 2012 01:29 (twelve years ago) link

it's like one's girlfriend leaving them for matth3w newt0n

trimdon orange explosion (electricsound), Wednesday, 21 March 2012 01:32 (twelve years ago) link

how is this band a thing

oh well i guess it isn't outside mr stockdale's head

Clive "The Chip" Crinkly (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 22 March 2012 10:59 (twelve years ago) link

M0du1ar has declined to release their 3rd album, too.

┗|∵|┓ (sic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 12:29 (twelve years ago) link

mixed blessing

roadie road (electricsound), Thursday, 22 March 2012 13:25 (twelve years ago) link


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