Rolling Teenpop 2006 Thread

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A whole bunch or relevant things from last years' rolling country thread:

Well, with nine shopping days left until Pazz & Jop, I'm in the midst of what's always equivalent to the Bataan death march an end-of-year delight, which is to reevaluate my favorite records of the year for possible poll ranking, and trying to catch up on the many records I've missed. To report on the latter endeavor:
Madonna - I love the single, hate the rest of it. Lindsay Lohan - I hate the single, love the rest of it. (Isn't this what fundamentalists urge us to do: hate the single but love the singer?) Kelly Clarkson - way better than Christgau says it is, of course, but I can hear how incipient Faithisms and Celinetudes could weigh it down for him (and even for me, to some extent). Tatu - finely flimsied Europop at its finest, which surprises me (not the flimsiness or the Europop, but the fineness, since the single they emerged with several years ago had struck me as finely diced dime-a-dozen Europop and I didn't believe the hype; maybe the difference is no Trevor Horn this time).

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 17th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)


Let's see, in the previous post I should have deleted the comma after "ranking" and changed "and trying to" to "and try to"; and I should have changed "way better than" to "far better than," so that the sentence wouldn't have been weighed down by a surfeit of "ways" and "weighs."

But to relate these albums to the putative subject matter of this thread:

Madonna wore a cowboy hat on the cover of her previous CD, which has nothing to do with the new album, or with the previous either, as far as I could tell, but here she is and I'm talking about her. The new CD is even duller than the others she's put out in the last fifteen years, which shocks me though probably shouldn't have, but I had hopes for this thing because (1) I love the single, and (2) I'd liked chief collaborator Stuart Price's Les Rythmes Digitales album from 1999 enough to have put it on my Pazz & Jop ballot (after which I totally forgot about him and it until seeing some ILM discussion several weeks ago lauding his subsequent career remixing any and everything under pseudonyms such as Jacques La Cont, Thin White Duke, Zoot Woman, Pour Homme, Paper Faces, Man With Guitar).

So the single samples the riff from Abba's "Gimme Gimme a Man After Midnight," putting it in a beautiful setting and when the riff is absent giving a beautiful texture to the chords. And the rest of the album has equally beautiful textures, and wonderful troughs and swells whenever a song transitions from verse to chorus or chorus to verse or verse to break. What it doesn't have is a single melody worth transitioning too, anywhere, except for that one Abba riff on track one. So you end up with soggy high-class mood music, all the beautiful swells and stuff just weighing everything down - er, wait, I mean, hold on, I can't use "weigh" again, um, dragging everything down? drenching everything up? (Oh, I don't know.) Her voice makes the tracks draggy too, I don't know why; it's the sort that needs a melody, not an atmosphere, I guess. "Hate" is probably an exaggeration - no, it isn't, I really don't like the thing, but I'll admit there are musically worthy moments. The obnoxious "I Love New York" song is as stupid as Joan Morgan says in her Voice review (she loved the album except for this track) but is actually one of the few signs of life, probably because it cops the chord pattern to Iggy's "I Wanna Be Your Dog" (an odd riff for a Detroit chick to use in a tribute to New York, given that the Stooges' home base was Ann Arbor, but maybe she or Price didn't notice the resemblance to "Dog").

Maybe I'm listening wrong and can come to hear it differently.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 17th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)


Ah, Lindsay. Her voice is a loose blat in comparison to Ashlee's tough little battering ram, and so far she hasn't pulled her music together as powerfully as Ashlee has; but the loose blat and the woman's basic Lohanicity make everything feel playful no matter how devastated or introspective she thinks she's being. The band sounds like it's having a rollicking good time. This is probably inaccurate - my copy has no album credits, but I assume that rather than a band there's just some guy doing overdub upon overdub, which is how most of these things are made. Some spirit is in this. (Strange if the tenth spot on my P&J list comes down to who is more fun: Lindsay Lohan or the Hold Steady. Craig Finn of the Hold Steady clobbers her in the category throw-you-to-the-floor funny lyrics ("Tramps like us and we like tramps"!), not too mention basic goofiness of vocal delivery, but she scores high on general pizzazz and ongoing shamelessness. Speaking of which, remember when words like "pizzazz" and "shameless" pertained to Madonna?
But to get bring us back to this thread, the best song on the Lohan, "I Live for the Day," matches "Kerosene" in virulence if not in stompability: "I live for the day, I live for the night, that you will be desperate and dying inside." (Glad to see that Lindsay has found a purpose in life) (though this was one of the songs she didn't co-write [writer's credits are available at].) And there's a meta moment worthy of Big & Rich where at the start of a the title, "A Little More Personal," she and a producer (or someone) are arguing over whether songs should have spoken intros (Lindsay in favor of them because they make the record a little more personal). But I kinda don't think Big & Rich will ever begin a song by singing: "God won't talk to me. I guess she's pretty busy." Or if they do, it won't get on the radio.

(My rationalization for posting this here is that by exploring what noncountry can and can't do, this tells us something about what country can and can't do. My real reason is that this is a more congenial thread than most to post on. And more fun.)

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 17th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)


Close parenthesis after "pertained to Madonna?" And "at the start of a the title" should be, "at the start of the title song."

Kelly Clarkson - She's someone who could conceivably jump to country if she wanted to, since several of her songs (esp. "Breakaway") aren't far from the basic land of pop-country crossover, if she were ever to choose it. I don't think she knows yet which genre she'll settle into. She's playing big on CHR pop and adult contemporary so she'll probably continue offering the loud-bright-rock-and-gentle-ballad combo special. As of now she wants wall of guitars on her wailing choruses, which is something country has yet to allow.

She's got a love-is-the-drug my-love-for-you-is-toxic song (called "Addicted," appropriately enough) that is more flat-out pained and less knowing than you'd get in the country equivalents (or in Sheryl's or Britney's, for that matter): "It's like you're a leech, sucking the life from me/It's like I can't breathe without you inside of me."

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 17th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)


the first time i felt like i was invading, that i was engaging in something inapporite, that seemed too personal, too raw for public consumption in a v v long time, was the artless but heartbreaking video for lohan's too personal.
it was harder to consume than any of the confessional singer songwriter shit that i engaged in, and was liminal b/w public and private personae in a way that seemed genuinely transgressive/taboo breaking.

not in the sense of oh my god this is so shocking (ie the ultra conceptual madonna of like a prayer) but in the sense of leave the poor girl alone, hasnt she suffered enough...

its something i dont have the crtical vocab for--and it doesnt matter if its nto v. good musically (and it isnt)--strangely enough, that overshare personal detail stuff seems to come in two places, girl pop (and i hear it in the shangri las, in the crystals, in other places) and in country--and the only place i felt it this year was in my inital reaction to the awful mindy mccready situtaion. (ie:finally we have tammy back)

does that
a) make me a bad person
b) make sense

-- anthony easton (anthonyeasto...), December 18th, 2005. (anthony)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 04:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Anthony, I understand what you're saying about Lindsay, but one thing to realize is that she's very much the one who's exploiting her own misfortune, heaving it at us and collecting moolah in return. It isn't a matter of "leave the poor girl alone, hasnt she suffered enough..." She herself co-wrote the song, and she directed the video herself! And this fits with the basic blat of her vocals, the young woman spraying herself forth.

Another interesting topic might be the way that country utilizes the child-abuse trope. Child abuse has been the subject of songs (T. Graham Brown "Which Way to Pray": "A little girl down on her knees/Saying 'Now I lay me down to sleep/Lord bless us with a happy home/And please make daddy leave me alone'"). Hank Snow had been an abused child, and he spoke out about child abuse, but as far as I know (which isn't very) he didn't make it an integral part of his image. Whereas in modern teenpop - Pink, Ashlee, Lindsay - singing about their suffering (don't know if there was abuse or just the usual divorce and/or abandonment) is an integrity move, something that's supposed to give songs and singers depth. (Which doesn't mean that it isn't gutsy, especially Pink's Missundaztood!.
Ashlee's "Shadow" is a powerful song, but there are things in it that feel wrong to me.)

(This year on P&J's abandoned child front, M.I.A.'s said that she entitled her album "Arular" (which is her dad's political alias, just as "Lenin" was Vladimer Ilyich Ulyanov's poltical alias) in the hope that he'd see it and get in touch with her. That was one reason, anyway.)

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 19th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)


Listening to Linsay Lohan now. Kinda thinking that way too much of it sounds like the single! The Cheap Trick cover is okay. I like the new wave synthesizers in "A Little More Personal." Beyond that, I dunno. I definitely I think I prefer Linsay more when she's LESS personal. (Oh wait, "If You Were Me" is on now. What a bouncy little bassline:) But she may have no more business doing ballads than Gretchen Wilson.

I really liked a disco song Hilary Duff did last year that Metal Mike sent me the video of, but I forget its name. Thought both of her actual albums were okay, but not okay enough to keep them. Never heard the greatest hits CD. May still have a soundtrack that's half songs by her and half songs by other people in the storage garage.

-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 19th, 2005.


There could also be a goth influence on country via Stevie Nicks (he says as Lindsy Lohan's seemingly quite good "Edge of 17" cover plays) or via Metallica (as in, say, harmonies on the first Big&Rich album). (What as Kim Carnes's and Bonnie Tyler's connection to goth, anyway?)
-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 19th, 2005.


but which teenager doesnt over share, the adults around her should say something about it no?
we keep forgetting with the tits, and the voice, that lohan is still basically a child.

-- anthony easton (anthonyeasto...), December 19th, 2005. (anthony)


"Who Loves You" on Linsay's album bounces too! I just may need to take more time with all those big bloated confessional slow ones.
(I really know nothing about her life, so I'm staying out of that discussion. She was really entertaining in *Mean Girls,* however.)

(By the way, speaking of lives, Frank, you know Ashlee supposedly collapsed after a show in Asia late last week, right? Last I heard, on Saturday I think, she was still being hospitalized. Hope she's OK.)

-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 19th, 2005.


Lindsay is old enough to join the Marines! Old enough to fight, old enough to direct your own video, I say. (I really don't know enough about the biz to know how such decisions are made.)
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 20th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 04:23 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Actually, "Black Hole" on the Lohan sounds worse than the "Confessions" song, but to mention this earlier would have conflicted with my hyperbole above. Everything else on the alb is listenable, including "Confessions," though usually I'll program out "Confessions," "My Innocence," "A Little More Personal," and "A Beautiful Life," the last of which - the Goddess one - is probably also worse than "Confessions." So, the ones I like a lot are, more or less in order of preference, "I Live for the Day," "Edge of Seventeen" (even though Lindsay does some of the lamest ooo ooo ooos in history), "Who Loves You," "If It's Alright" (a power ballad), "I Want You to Want Me," and "Fastlane.")

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 20th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)


(Ashlee's back in the U.S. with her family. Official reason for the collapse is exhaustion.)
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 20th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)


>I really liked a disco song Hilary Duff did last year that Metal Mike sent me the video of, but I forget its name.<

'Twas "Wake Up."

-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 21st, 2005.


(By the way, if anybody's interested, Lindsay Lohan does "I Want You To Want Me" better than Cheap Trick ever did. It was never even close to one of their best songs, I've always thought, but then again, not until now did I ever notice what a great line "I'll get home early from work if you'll say that you want me" is. Getting home early from work is such an important thing in everyday life! Lindsay singing that line hit me the second time through. I've heard the Cheap Trick version thousands of times, probably, and the line never grabbed me.)
-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 23rd, 2005.


Also, the bassline in "Fastlane" comes from "Roxanne" by the Police!
-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 23rd, 2005.


Now I'm up to Hilary Duff. Never in the course of human events have so many melodies been lavished on such a tiny voice.

Well, for the Churchillian effect I wanted I should have said, "Never in the field of human artistry was so much melody lavished by so many on such a tiny voice."
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 24th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 04:35 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

(OK, I'll stop cutting and pasting for a while, though at some point I'll bring bring in Hope Partlow stuff.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 04:36 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Meh. I expected to be more excited about the Partlow than I was. It just didn't grab me.

Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Friday, 6 January 2006 13:35 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Frank are there any other Hillary songs like "Come Clean" and "Fly"? I love those so much. Actually I may have asked you this before.

In terms of Max Martin rock action, let us not forget The Veronicas' awesome "4 Eva".

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 6 January 2006 13:54 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Ha ha looks like I posted here a few times last night while I was *sleeping*. I don't know if that ever happened before.

Anyway. *Come Get It: The Very Best of Aaron Carter.* More fun than the Backstreet Boys's best of album? Maybe, I'm not sure. Best tracks: "Bounce," "A.C.'s Alien Nation," "To All the Girls," "Another Earthquake" (which was his pop-punk move, apparently; never knew he had one). Fun: "Aaron's Party (Come Get It)" (a "Parents Just Don't Understand" rip which I reviewed in a singles column in the voice several years ago), "My Internet Girl," "I Want Candy," "Oh Aaron."
Still pretty bad, though justifiable for its ridiculousness: "That's How I Beat Shaq." Missing: "Iko Iko"; he covered that right? Maybe people thought including it would be offensive in the wake of Katrina?

I heard the Veronicas album a couple months ago (listened to it to write a show preview of their New York show), and thought it was ok, not all that distinctive, and wound up trading it in. Should I not have? (I think I probably thought it wasn't teen-pop *enough.* Though I vaguely remember the singer vaguely reminding me of Joan Jett once.)

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Not sure about the album, but I loved the first single, especially with it's original er indier video clip.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:05 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

It was like Max Martin paying homage to Veruca Salt!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 6 January 2006 14:06 (thirteen years ago) Permalink


holy shit, stop the presses, on the stereo right now: 1982 john cougar song of the year: "crazy summer nights" by hope paltrow. sorry, silvertide, you just got beat!! (has metal mike heard this yet? he will spit out his diet pepsi for sure!!)
(okay, that had nothing to do with country, i guess. but i had to say it.)

-- xhuxk (xedd...), July 25th, 2005.
Oh, you were asking about Anna Nalick: she's 21, did "Breathe(2 A.M.)"
-- don (dmxz...), September 28th, 2005.


Is she considered country, pop, r&b, or what?
Also, who is Emma Roberts? Just got the CD in the mail; she appears Nickelodeon connected. (Also appears to have nothing to do with country music, but who cares.) It wouldn't play in my computer; gotta take it home I guess. But I really like these song titles: "Punch Rocker," "Say Goodbye to Jr. High," "94 Weeks (Metal Mouth Freak)," "Dummy," "Mexican Wrestler," "New Shoes"! I wonder if Shania has heard that last song. I already want her to be the next Skye Sweetnam or at least Hope Partlow, but she probably isn't, I dunno.

-- xhuxk (xedd...), September 28th, 2005.


Anna's in September 26, 2205 issue of People.Yeah, I read it; gotta keep up, yknow. "Nalick has toured almost nonstop since her debut CD, Wreck of the Day, came out in April." College student. But also "kicks off a headlining tour Oct. 6 and opens for Rob Thomas starting on Nov. 6," so headlining tour's more a tourette. I've seen the "Breathe" vid on VH-1 and on CMT's aforementioned "Wide Open Country"(with Mellanin, Crow, Truckers, Hootie, etc.) "On Meeting Rob Thomas: I rewrote matchbox twenty's "Push" when I was younger. I told him about it. He was like, 'That's awesome. Wait. When you were 12, you thought you could write my songs better than I could?'" Somebody had to tell him.
-- don (dmxz...), September 28th, 2005.

On the other hand, I would definitely take the totally morally conflicted Hope Partlow song where she makes out with her friend's boyfriend ("Sick Inside") over the Big&Rich song where John Rich makes out with his friend's girfriend ("Never Mind Me") any day. (That'd be the second or third best song on the Partlow album, behind the great "Crazy Summer Nights", tied with "Everywhere But Here," slightly above "Cold" and the Disney hit "Who We Are", which has a cool blues riff by the way. Also, "Let Me Try" sounds like a cross between David Johansen's "Flamingo Road" and Lionel Richie's "Three Times a Lady," sort of. She has a really ace band, whoever they are. I forgot her album when listing top 10 candidates above; right now, I'd put it somewhere below Lambert/Carter but above MIA/Fannypack, I think, though logically I can see why others might totally disagree. Bottom line is, I'd rather *listen* to it than MIA or Fannypack.)
-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 3rd, 2005.


(Actually there's a good chance "Sick Inside" > "Cold" > "Who We Are" > "Everywhere But Here" , now that I think of it. But why nitpick?)
-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 3rd, 2005.

And speaking of noncountry singers whom we can talk about on this thread because Chuck talked here about someone whom she reminds me of, "Life After You" on the Brie Larson album is better than anything on the Hope Partlow - it starts with great sexy electro-disco oohs and ahs, similar to Pauline Rubio, then shifts effortlessly into a just-as-danceable Ashlee-Avril-Kelly-Marion I'm-over-you/I-will-flourish/I-will-survive brat-voiced bubblerock monster. The track is produced by the great Ric Wake, the man who helped invent Taylor Dayne and is usually the fellow working the dials on Celine Dion's best moments. The disco on the Brie Larson tends to fade after the second track, unfortunately, and the melodies plummet from "great" to "not bad, though there's another pretty good Ric Wake production (and a couple not so good) and a funny smart song about Brie's not getting along with her gym teacher (guess she doesn't want the gym teacher's perfume on her pillowcase, though she would like a C so she doesn't have to take the damn class anymore). Generally smart lyrics, mostly Brie-written. Promising. Exec. producer Tommy Mottola.
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), October 18th, 2005.

Actually, "Life After You" eventually sounds kind of "Smells Like Teen Spirit"! But I like Hope's "Crazy Summer Nights," which sounds kind of like "Jack and Diane," about a hundred times as much. Brie sounds good, though.

-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 19th, 2005.

I like the "Finally Out of P.E." song on Brie Larsen's album more than the "Life After You" song; the former's just way more distinctive. There's something really generic about the former that I can't put my finger on (just like there's something really generic about Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone", which I like a lot but don't love, that I can't put my finger on; nothing generic to me about Ashlee's "La La" or Hope's "Crazy Summer Nights" at all). I mean, in "Life After You," I *guess* I hear the Rubio ooh-ahh beats Frank's talking about, *when I listen really really really close for them,* but even then they seem incidental; they're not nearly as in bubbliciously in-your-face and effervescent as they'd be in a great Rubio track. Honestly, I don't really even buy the comparison. Sounds more like pretty run-of-the-mill Hillary Duff gurgling to me. Which, again, is fine; I *like* Hillary Duff. And I like this song, but I think I like any number of other Brie songs just as much. (Right now it sounds to me like the album really picks up in the middle -- "Done With Like" which I keep hearing as "Done With Life," "She Shall Remain Nameless" which seems to have some really good high school cultural map specifics in it, "She Said," etc. That could change, though. Either way, a really good album. Better than any album Hillary or the Bratz have made. But not Partlow, I don't think. Yet.)
-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 20th, 2005.


I meant "something really generic about the LATTER (i.e, "Life After You") that I can't put my finger on." "Finally Got Out of P.E.," in its own way, is unprecedented, just like "Crazy Summer Nights" in its own way is unprecendented. "Life After You," as the laundry list of teen I-will-survivers Frank likened it to suggests, is anything but. (But of course the thing about generic music is that it's great if you love the genre. I get the idea Frank has more use for that genre than I do. I also think John Cougar was better than Taylor Dayne!)
-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 20th, 2005.

Btw, Hope Partlow is a tremendously gifted singer who makes everything sound easy and natural rather than capital-S "Spectacular," while actually what she does with her voice is rather spectacular, if only she'd make a spectacle of herself - which maybe she should, this being art and not life. I'm sure she'd be a good country singer if that's what she were to choose. In fact, she'd probably be a good anything singer, even death metal. As a stylist she's got a lot more sense and smarts than either Faith Hill or Celine Dion has (Celine's somewhat rooted in countrypolitan when she isn't being rooted in disco). Definitely in the pop-country range if she wants to be (where the Faith and the LeAnn play, and Cougar-style rockers worm their way midstream these days, and the skies are not cloudy all day except whenever LeAnn cries rivers).
I haven't played the Partlow enough for it to really sink in. The things is, what Partlow would choose if she could, it seems, is to be Lisa Stansfield: stylized mastery and control and all that, with maybe an extra freshness in her smooth glides, and certainly more boom from the kick drums and more kick from the snare drums (I prefer Mellancamp riffs to Norman Cook beats, when it comes to backing one's stylishness); but veering Adult Contemporary nonetheless, which will be her destination unless the bucks lead her elsewhere. That could be a drawback, though not necessarily (AC is hardly devoid of passion and rock these days); but so far my other problem with the Partlow album is my failure to love any of the songs. This could change with more listenings; a stylist who makes things easy often sneaks her passion in on you. I certainly appreciate the girl, but I'm not aching for her yet.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), October 20th, 2005.

>kelly clarkson on mtv, the video that looked like some lost melodrama, all blonde on black, with heart break and a sort of undersung sadness/meloncholy...i dont remember the song, but how it was sung was more country and less girl singer, more lambert and less lohan...[anthony easton]
Could be either "Breakaway" or "Because of You" (the blonder of the two) either or which could be country with (or without) a few tweaks, as could Hope Partlow's "Crazy Summer Nights," if you want to vote for any of them.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 28th, 2005.

Hope Partlow's "Girlfriend" - fast ZZ fizzies on the guitars. Another reason to consider the album country, though my favorite track is "Everywhere But Here," which is the least country/most teenpop feisty wail of a sad-happy I'm gone 'n' you'll miss me lament-triumph Ashlee-Lindsay-Lohan thing.
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 29th, 2005.


I meant Ashlee-Kelly-Lohan thing. Otherwise, I'm being redundant.
-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 29th, 2005.

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

P.S.) For whatever it's worth, Hope Partlow did not make my Pazz and Jop top 10 albums list (though she did make three other people's I am not allowed to divulge yet), and MIA and Fannypack did, contrary to what I predict up above. I may wind up regretting this. I did vote for "Crazy Summer Nights" (which isn't a single) as a single, though.

P.S.S.) I also liked the Hope 7 album last year. Which means, if nothing else, that 2005 was a *hopeful* year for U.S. teen-pop.

P.S.S.S.) So hey, whatever happened to Skye Sweetnam??

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink


more fun hope'n'ashlee facts!
1. hope does a song where she makes out with your boyfriend and pretends to feel sorry about it; ashlee does one where you accuse her of making out with your boyfriend, and she pretends she didn't and gets pissed off. (except i don't really know if either is pretending.)

2. ashlee opens her CD with a song that sounds like franz ferdinand; hope opens hers with a cool blues riff, just like frank says franz f. open theirs with, though i didn't personally notice it yet. (i think he compared it to a '60s garage punk doing "smokestack lightning.")

3. hope's "don't go" is a red light green light song (see also: ashlee kix reference), though not for the reason its title suggests.

4. ashlee does a song called "boyfriend"; hope does a song called "girlfriend." "girlfriend" is probably 2005's best abba song.

-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 20th, 2005.


Yikes, the Abba song "Girlfriend" sounds like is "Does Your Mother Know," which could have been written by Vladimir Nabokov. Creepy! But it was also Abba's hardest rock song. Maybe this is an answer record?
Dullest track on Hope's album: Probably "Through It All."

-- xhuxk (xedd...), October 20th, 2005.

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 14:48 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

i do expect this thread to be my source for the best single 2006.

my name is john. i reside in chicago. (frankE), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

from an article in the Tacoma News-Tribune on most-anticipated albums of 2006:

"12. Skye Sweetnam, untitled (June 20): This is not necessarily an endorsement – just fair warning regarding which bubble-gum rocker the preteen at your house will likely be obsessed with this summer – you know, the shorty you already took to see Ashlee Simpson, Avril Lavigne and Hilary Duff."

Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:16 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"There was this huge poster of a kid squeezing his bloody zit into a drink! We realized it was a new slushy called the 'Bloody Zit!' We had to try it! What's twisted is that you can sprinkle 'Oily Blackheads' and 'Scabs' into the drink! They're like sour candy! Mmmm but at the same time it's kind of gross!"
—Skye Sweetnam, from her myspace page, which you can find here.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:52 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Skye's someone who would fit in easily posting on ILX.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

In terms of Max Martin rock action, let us not forget The Veronicas' awesome "4 Eva".

It would not have been possible for me to forget it, in that this is the first I'd ever heard of it.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:57 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Taking sides: the Archies vs. the Veronicas.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:57 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

>Speaking of Rooney, whatever happened to Damone?<

Ha, this just came in the email:


5-song EP, “Out Here All Night,” making waves in advance of 2006 summer release
(January 3, 2006 – New York, NY) Damone is coming! After a recent local Boston show, The Boston Globe hailed Damone as the band that was “born for arenas and is simply biding it's time until it gets to headline in them.,” In advance of their long-awaited second album and first for Island Records, with a 2006 summer release, Damone hits the road for six weeks of shows with Less Than Jake, opening January 18th at the Masquerade in Atlanta.

Damone – charismatic lead singer and guitarist Noelle, Dustin Hengst (drums, vocals), Vazquez (bass, vocals), and Mike Woods (lead guitars, vocals) – took their sweet time putting the pieces back together over the past couple years and the early results are catching the ears of savvy programmers and rock cognoscenti via the Out Here All Night EP. The 5-song sampler – “Out Here All Night,” “What We Came Here For,” “Get Up And Go,” “Never Getting Mine (demo),” and “Time and Time Again” – serves notice that Damone has not lost its flair for “unbelievably hook-laden rock songs,” as CMJ raved back in the day.

Instilled with a strong love of ’80s glam-metal, some Runaways/Joan Jett-size girl-rock (to see Noelle in action is to believe), big Marshall stack guitar solos and badass attitude, Damone is all about the joy and excess of rock.

With the help of legendary mixing engineers Tom Lord-Alge (U2, Weezer, Marilyn Manson) and Mike Shipley (Def Leppard, Green Day, Andrew WK) putting the finishing touches on their upcoming self produced album, Damone has created a timeless piece of rock’n’roll, ready to be sandwiched in a “rock block” of Guns ’N Roses, Queen and AC/DC. “For me,” says newest member Mike Woods, “the story should go this way: it looked like it was going to end, quite literally for some of us, but it didn’t, so we made a kick-ass record and took over the world.”

For further information on Damone go to<

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 17:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

more kick-ass news: THIS comes out february 6

Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:38 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

my daughter made a mix cd of her favorite tunes, and fefe's "stupid little love song" was the opening song. i'll post the full tracklist of her mix later, but it's by far the new most-played disc in the house, along with the hairspray soundtrack and b-52's first album.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:40 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Skye Sweetnam's Influences: "Barbie Dolls, fairies and their tales. “The Nightmare Before Christmas,” Danny Elfman, Johnny Depp and Tim Burton… together! Candy, DIY kids. Harajuku girls, Queen Street rockers and my grandma’s closet. Tank Girl, Jet Girl, and Sub Girl, heavy machinery rocks! Comic books, graffiti, notebook scribbles and Pirates. I love Gaudi’s architecture, Gloomy by Mori Chack and pretending I’m going to be a princess when I grow up! I love almost every single kind of music out there... let me name some of my favorites! I want to have a career like Mrs. Gwen Stefani, you know she can do anything! I like Green Day, almost all Pantra, some Zeppelin and Nirvana. Some Tegan and Sara, Mars Volta, Max Martin Songs- Gotta love “Hit Me Baby One More Time…”. Weezer's Blue Album, "Back in the Mud" by Bubba Sparxxx, Outkast's hits, ALL NOFX, Lagwagon, Pennywise and Clutch songs. The Police yo! Coldplay- but I haven't met anyone who doesn't like them. Canadian bands Billy Talent, Death From Above 1979, Propagandhi, Metric. I like some Incubus, The Distillers, Rancid, QOTSA, Angel Dust by Faith No More, "When the Pawn..." by Fiona Apple and Esthero's Wikked Little Grrls. That’s just what I’m into right now.. The list goes on."

Who are "Pantra"? Does she mean "Pantera"? "Tantra"?? Also, I hope she covers "Back in the Mud" on her new album!

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 17:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I'm hoping for a "Cassandra Geminni/Bombs Over Baghdad" medley, myself. Skye and Fefe and Avril make me want to move to Canada for realz.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:48 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

That Fefe cover is kind of great.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:52 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Damone in comeback! Well, I'll have to be around for that.

>>Instilled with a strong love of ’80s glam-metal, some Runaways/Joan >>Jett-size girl-rock (to see Damone's Noelle in action is to >>believe), big >>Marshall stack guitar solos and badass attitude, >>Damone is all >>about the joy and excess of rock.

Damone was so not Marshall stack and guitar solo on their debut. And if it had been more like Joan Jett, I would have actually liked it. And she was as badass as my housecats. Nothing wrong with that, but geeez.

>>With the help of legendary mixing engineers Tom Lord-Alge (U2, >>Weezer, Marilyn Manson) and Mike Shipley (Def Leppard, Green Day, >>Andrew WK) putting the finishing touches on their upcoming self >>produced album, Damone has created a timeless piece of rock’n’roll, >>ready to be sandwiched in a “rock block” of Guns ’N Roses, Queen >>and AC/DC.

Ha-ha. I don't get the reverse in adsmanship. Damone's never going to pass as a bunch of heavy rockers. What's wrong with being what they were and just improving it with, like, some passion in those songs?

This blurb reminds me of the blurb that was being peddled with Hanson's live album. "Guitar brutality!" it was said, excerpted from a review from USA Today or Entertainment Weekly. So I asked for a review copy. Big mistake.

George the Animal Steele, Friday, 6 January 2006 17:52 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

on the new album
fefe works with matthew wilder
and joan jett RAWK

Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Wow. Hey, wow. I am flipping over this Amy Diamond stuff.

Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:07 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Frank are there any other Hillary songs like "Come Clean" and "Fly"? I love those so much.

I don't know. Nothing else on Most Wanted comes close. You should try Lindsay Lohan's "I Live for the Day," which is doing something very different (a vengeance rocker, basically, and joyous on its vengeful terms), and oddly enough is one of the few Lohan songs that Kara DioGuardi has no hand in, but it nonetheless has the same reverbed-mystery-lament feel. And then you should try Ashlee's "I Am Me," which is even more of a ferocious Dance Of The Woman Scorned and so is even farther in intent from "Fly"'s tremulous beauty ache - but buried in the song's melody (especially during the dancing-on-your-grave ending) the beauty is there, aching. Which isn't altogether surprising, given that Kara DioGuardi and John Shanks are among the song's writers, and John Shanks is its producer.

So, Tim F., if you're worried that by going for Lindsay and Ashlee you'll be diluting your love for Hilary, you should instead conceive this as expanding your love outward via Shanks and DioGuardi.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I need to explore S&D further, but one thing I've noticed is that when song credits add the name "Simpson" to "Shanks" and "DioGuardi," the emotional complication of the lyrics increases 10x.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The new Fefe doesn't bode well, 'Don't let it go to your head', which is unfortunately bland and nothing near the synth awesomeness of 'Don't Go (Boys and Girls). And Skye is pretty impressive - Hypocrite for one, which i poptexted a while back and people loved.

Abby (abby mcdonald), Friday, 6 January 2006 19:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I won't believe you
Abby till I hear the whole
Fefe for myself

Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"Hypocrite" is the best track on Noise from the Basement! To get all Brooks & Warren on you guys, one of the great moments is when she uses a comic poetic device called "forced scansion" to make her funniest line even funnier:

Some will say that I'm counterfeit
But I will be who I want to
Some will look at me and vomit
But I will do what I want to

Which is extra funny because to make "vomit" fit the meter and rhyme you have to mispronounce it, which she does but without hamming up the mispronunciation. I think she lifted this comic device from that Billy S. guy she likes so much.

Also, in a behind-the-scenes making-of-the-video short for "Tangled Up in Me" she demonstrated to us how they prepared the instruments for the shoot, so she's showing us the muffles they put on the drums; then she turns to the camera and silently mouths "We're not really playing our instruments" to the camera, as if imparting a great but confidential secret.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Er, "I will do what I want to" was "I will look how I want to."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

>if anybody's interested, Lindsay Lohan does "I Want You To Want Me" better than Cheap Trick ever did<

I'm listening to clips of some of these on itunes. Sounds like a bigger production and she's got a good singing voice, but is it as ... believable or something? Does it not just kind of sound like some covers band doing a kind of average/blah assortment of songs, but dressed up in the studio?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Not believable because it's dressed up, or not believable because it's a covers band? (And why would neither of those be believable?)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:45 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

No, not believable because I'm not convinced that she was really passionate about doing a cover of "I Want You to Want Me."

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:49 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

We went to Disneyland not too long ago and there was a cover band playing at the Buzz Light Year thing in Tomorrowland playing "Love Shack" and stuff. It reminds me of them. (OMG I just remembered that they played "I Want You to Want Me!")

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:52 (thirteen years ago) Permalink you don't really think she wants him to want her?

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 21:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

(Listening to a 30-second clip (which is too short to tell me enough) of Ashlee Simpson's "L.O.V.E. (Missy Underground Mix)": Ashlee's sunniest song, so Missy gives it minor keys and power chords and doomy thumps on the tom and Asian carnival streamers dive-bombing in the rear.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:56 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Doesn't it kind of seem like playacting? xp

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 21:59 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I mean, part of my point in what Tim just quoted is that Cheap Trick's version was never all that great from the gitgo. I doubt LL could do a better version of "He's A Whore" or "Surrender" or "I Love You Honey But I Hate Your Friends" or "She's Tight" or "The House is Rockin' (With Domestic Problems)." But Cheap Trick's version of "I Want You To Want Me" always sounded perfunctory in the first place! She's more believable than they ever were, which isn't saying much.

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 22:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

And maybe not so coincidental that a lot of these stars are actresses, too?

xp - I always thought of Cheap Trick's version as a kind of believable '50s nostalgia. believable because it was about '50s rock and roll as a very rocking music! I think it's quite dynamite.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Chuck and Tim, the question is whether you think she wants you to want her. I'm convinced that she wants everyone to want her.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Guys, she wrote a song about being a drama queen!

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Ha, I always thought Cheap Trick's '50s nostalgia ("All Shook Up," "Ain't That a Shame") sounded totally perfunctory too. So maybe that explains it. Lindsay also does more interesting covers than them. (Though they were pretty great covering Move songs, I guess.)

xhuxk, Friday, 6 January 2006 22:11 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

OK, folks, in further attempts to define the "Fly" sound I will need your adjectival assistance: so far I've used "haunted," "haunting," "gorgeous," "melancholy," "catchy," "heartbreaking beauty," "reverbed-mystery-lament feel," and "aching." That pretty much leaves "ghostly," and then I'm all out of words. (Noun assistance in regard to "beauty" would also be appreciated.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Also from the country thread (featuring the word "heartbreaking"):

Speaking of Cougar rocks - though this is off-topic - last week I listened to Jessica Simpson's "I Think I'm In Love With You" for the first time in four years. It's the one that samples the brief bass-guitar fillip from "Jack and Diane" and otherwise is a basic dance-r&b number where she shows off Mariah melismas. It's likable, since she's willing to make the notes fluffy (which isn't to say that she fluffs any of the notes). But what's amazing is the Peter Rauhofer Club Mix that's included on the single. No Cougar notes, just driving, ominous techno and Jessica's "I think I'm in love"s sounding icy but heartbreaking, darting up and down above the jagged synths. Might as well be a totally different song.

(In general, I'm not one of these guys who says, "No, you gotta hear the remix.")

-- Frank Kogan (edcasua...), December 28th, 2005. (Frank Kogan)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

here are some words for frank and hilary: "saudade" (the portuguese/brazilian word for the happiness in sadness and vice versa), "wistful," "doomladen," "goth-blasted," "coked-up," "cynical"

Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

all the pop girls sound like holly & the italians these days but I think they're actually trying to sound more like "since u been gone"

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:23 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"Girlfriend" doesn't Cougar-rock at all, Frank; it Abba-rocks! And I just prefer "Jack and Diane" to "Does Your Mother Know," I guess. Though I love them both. And in the long run, I may regret not voting for Hope's album (which three P&J voters did, though I can't say who.)

And yeah, she's 17 (and I think the songwriting is often really good).

Mikael Wood's appraisal of her, Brie Larsen, etc, can be found here:,wood,71326,22.html

And the fact that she picked peas on her family farm in Tennesse is pretty country, I guess! Perhaps country fans will eventually agree.

-- xhuxk (xedd...), December 28th, 2005.


Hope Paltrow is far too pretty to remain in the peapatch, for sure.
-- edd s hurt (eddshur...), December 28th, 2005. (ddduncan)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 6 January 2006 22:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

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