Rolling Teenpop 2006 Thread

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The teens I know listen to Marilyn Manson and System of a Down, and lots of "teenpop" is actually for pre-teens, and lots of teenpop is also Adult Contemporary (and I'm waiting for Kelly to break on the country stations), so we can talk about whatever, but here's a good place for an ongoing discussion that include Jesse and Hilary and Lindsay and Avril and Ashlee and Hampton the Hampster and - yes - Hawthorn and Blink-185 and Weezer (!) and Akon (!) and Gwen (!) and I want Brits to post here so they can confuse us with all their Rachel Stevens and Girls Aloud and Sugababes and who knows who and who knows what.

The new era of teen was foreshadowed when a couple of Norwegian 15-year-olds (Marion Raven and Marit Larsen) sang "Don't say you love me/You don't even know me" and got it onto the Pokémon soundtrack. I wouldn't have put money on a shift from dance-pop to confessional rock being a good thing in the land of teenybop, but it has been, though if you look at the Disney airplay list I'm gonna post, you'll see that pop and rock may come and go, but ballads are forever. And so are novelty tunes.

One more thing. I HATE Bowling for Soup's "1985."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Frank: as an M2M fan, do you have any opinions on their spiritual heir, Amy Diamond?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link

Dom, I have not even heard Amy Diamond. I'm excited to know M2M has a spiritual heir (though Avril certainly counts as an artistic heir of theirs).

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Here's the playlist for KDIS (the Radio Disney outlet in L.A.), week ending January 4, 2006. The recurrents ("Come Clean," Sk8er Boi," etc.) tend to bounce all over the place, and the list the Top 30 that Radio Disney posts on its Website is different from this (and full of a lot of crazy movement - Hilary's "Fly" was number 8 last week and off the list the week previous) and does tend to have old but not new Ashlee and Lindsay, which tends to confirm my suspicion that though they may be in the teenpop vanguard artistically, commercially they're falling between two stools.

1. CRAZY FROG - Axel F
2. HILARY DUFF - Wake Up
3. RIHANNA - Pon De Replay
4. ALY & A.J. - Rush
5. BLACK EYED PEAS - Let's Get It Started
7. AKON - Lonely
8. CHEETAH GIRLS - Shake Your Tailfeather
9. JESSE MCCARTNEY - Beautiful Soul
10. B5 - Let's Groove Tonight
11. HILARY DUFF - Beat Of My Heart
12. HILARY DUFF - Come Clean
13. AVRIL LAVIGNE - Sk8er Boi
14. PUSSYCAT DOLLS - Stickwitu
15. JOJO - Leave (Get Out)
16. B5 - Dance For You
17. KELLY CLARKSON - Because Of You
18. USHER - Caught Up
19. WEEZER - Beverly Hills
20. CLICK FIVE - Just The Girl
21. GWEN STEFANI - Rich Girl
22. KELLY CLARKSON - Behind These Hazel Eyes
23. KELLY CLARKSON - Respect
24. SIMPLE PLAN - Shut Up
25. BARENAKED LADIES - One Little Slip
26. MADONNA - Hung Up
27. CLICK FIVE - Catch Your Wave
28. D.H.T. - Listen To Your Heart
29. LILLIX - What I Like About

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:21 (fourteen years ago) link

"What's In It For Me?" is the big single.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Is that a new Lillix record? (And is it any good?)

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Only if there's a new version of Sk8er boi.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:33 (fourteen years ago) link

the lillix singer
hasn't been the same since she
got her new contacts

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:33 (fourteen years ago) link

What does Amy Diamond sound like, Dom? (I can't play those videos on my computer.)

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:37 (fourteen years ago) link

No, it's not a new Lillix, it's from the original alb and is a cover of the Romantics "What I Like About You," which itself was a near copy of Neil Diamond's "Cherry Cherry," which was a hit when I was 12 or 13, and now with Amy Diamond we've come full circle.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, honestly, I remember thinking that was kind of crap. Hilary Duff's "Our Lips Are Sealed," too.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Amy Diamond is 13 years old and sings like she's 11. It's totally European, there's no sexual undercurrent to her songs at all (unlike, say, Jojo for a Western equivalent) (although she has covered "Underneath My Clothes" live, I think there's an MP3 flying around somewhere but I've been too scared to download). She is kind of a... more ballsy M2M vocally, but she still has a very cloying, rag-doll come to life style of singing. The songs are based around the normal safe topics of teen-pop ("treat me right"/"let's party"), but she's just got... something, a weird intangible x-quality that probably comes from the fact she's half-teen pop and half Swede-pop...

Download. She's great.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Just as a kind of general impression, it seems to me that Europeans are way ahead of Americans in this genre. A lot of American teen pop just seems like "safer" versions of US chart pop, maybe? I think the success of some European stuff on Radio Disney and of novelty songs indicates that American kids who listen to this stuff want their own music.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:52 (fourteen years ago) link

Unfortunately, on dialup it'll take me about 12 hours for the Amy video to load.

Tim, I'm not so hot on Hilary's "Alex the Seal." The greatest Hilary tracks are the two DioGuardi-Shanks numbers - "Come Clean" and "Fly," especially the latter, which is catchy of course but also sounds haunted, gorgeous, as if there is some distant snow-capped peak she's flying towards; her three new New-Waveish Go-Gos-like tracks are more enjoyable than "Our Lips" (well, two of 'em, anyway).

I recall "What I Like About You" as one of the better cuts on the Lillix album. I'll have to go re-listen, if I've still got it.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link

xpost Hahaha, yes, as opposed to Europe where teenpop bears no resemblence to the music elsewhere on the charts?

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:58 (fourteen years ago) link

American teenpop is pretty much its own genre, there's no ahead or behind, really.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:58 (fourteen years ago) link

Tim, I don't know the European teenpop well, but I definitely think that Pink-Avril-Lindsay-Hilary-Ashlee (which isn't just one style, of course, but a number of related ones) isn't just safe chart pop but something with its own identity(ies), which identity isn't necessarily all that "teen," either. And also, of course, the Swedes (and Germans) have their hand in the U.S. market bigtime: for instance, "Since U Been Gone" was written by Martin Sandberg and Luke Gottwald and produced by Gottwald and Max Martin; same with "Behind These Hazel Eyes," but with Kelly Clarkson as a co-writer.


Also, the word "safe," while not necessarily wrong, certainly is too simplistic. What's the dangerous chart pop that "Since U Been Gone" is making safe?

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link

lots of teenpop is also Adult Contemporary

Jessica Simpson's "The Sweetest Sin" is still one of my favourite singles of the decade, though I imagine if anyone heard it and was turned off by it, they'd mostly be turned off by how "mature" it sounds. It's sort of an aching, grand piano-driven, bombastic elegance, a sound that, if it even exists in pop these days, I assume it would exist only in places like Josh Groban (places I assume I probably wouldn't care to visit)--much moreso anyway than in "teen" music. I can't think of a current pop song that less resembles Jessica's sister and Kelly Clarkson and Hilary Duff (or anyway, the little that I've heard by them). Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but I agree with the point about teen-as-AC.

s woods, Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:19 (fourteen years ago) link

sorry, this is a direct quote from Frank (I'm not merely agreeing with myself here): "lots of teenpop is also Adult Contemporary"

s woods, Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Also, apropos of nothing, I've noticed that the tracks on Breakaway that credit Kelly Clarkson as a co-songwriter tend to have dark lyrics. "Because of you I am afraid." "I'm screaming for you to please hear me," etc. etc. Nothing about spreading her wings or getting what she wants.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link

And what is the Euro/Brit teen chart pop that's more dangerous than the American stuff? I don't get that at all. Hope Partlow and Ashlee Simpson made more interesting albums than Annie to my ears. (And I *like* Annie. I still haven't heard Robyn or Rachel Stevens or Girls Aloud, though though I want to. What's so great about them again?) (And if Europeans can count Annie, can Americans count Fannypack?)

The teens I know listen primarily now to either (1) The Decemberists and Holy Modal Rounders and Nellie McKay and Baader-Meinhoff (2) Wu Tang Clan and Jedi Mind Tricks and Danger Doom and Kanye West.

Most slept-on teen-pop album of '05, by the way (unless Hope Partlow still counts): The *Darcy's Wild Life* soundtrack. Which goes like:

1 Take a Walk Sara Paxton 2:56
2 I Love Your Smile Tiffany Evans 4:17
3 Crazy Kinda Crush on You Nicholas Jonas 2:55
4 Bam Boogie Bent Fabric 3:15
5 We Need Some Money Brown, Chuck & The ... 4:28
Performed by: Brown, Chuck & The Soul Searchers
6 Hey Boy Fan-3 4:00
7 Walking the Dog Rufus Thomas 2:21
8 Monkey Man Specials 2:35
9 ABC American Juniors 3:22
10 Walking On Sunshine Nikki Cleary 3:41
11 Clothes Make the Girl Kristy Frank 2:42
12 There for You Sarah Paxton 2:07

xhuxk, Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Jessica's voice was mature (or "mature," anyway) from the get-go, or at least from her commercial breakthrough, "I Think I'm in Love With You," which was basically sung in Whitney, Mariah, Christina–style, though not quite as spectacular as Mariah (who was something like 19 herself when "Visions of Love" hit).

Actually, Jessica's a subject for further research. I've got two singles: "I Think I'm in Love With You" and "Irresistible."

Chuck, Robyn's in the mail.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Where if are any where does the line between teen pop and real proper grown up indie rock lie? certainly stuff like the killers and the kaiser chiefs in britain at least in exist in an odd hinter world between the cd;uk grandstanders and real proper music for observer music monthly fans. nme editor saying that his target audience is 17 year old in doncaster, the older popjustice ilm type "pure" pop love seems to suggest to me a shift or not so much a shift but an openess to the field which may in itself be a shift. also factor in that britains biggest POP group is mcfly (not Girls Aloud lol contentious) who have rather a dad rock thing going on. Therfore in conclusion the big british teen pop sensation of the year is The Arctic Monkeys.

pscott (elwisty), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link

Amy Diamond is launching in Europe as we speak. If she does well, the UK at least will probably get to hear the wonders of "What's In It For Me?" and ESPECIALLY, the bonkers-insane "Welcome To The City".

I won't even need the rest of ILM if this thread becomes successful.

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:35 (fourteen years ago) link

Ashlee's voice sounds mature (or "mature") too, but nothing like Jessica's, and not adult contemporary. I bet you if she were to do "Ballad of Lucy Jordan" it would cut Bobby Bare's and Marianne Faithfull's versions (not that this would be better than her own stuff).


Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:36 (fourteen years ago) link

(xx-post) Except "teen pop", like "teen magazines" aren't really aimed at teenagers, but rather the 13, 14 year old range.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Frank, I'll throw a couple of Amy Diamond YSIs your way if you want.

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes McFly is way more successful than Girls Aloud. (& here they are on Smash Hits Radio, which I turned on for research)

Girls Aloud are "pop" sure but "teenpop", I don't know - by origin they're a reality TV thing and would have been initially marketed to a wide-spectrum pop consumer, the latest album seems to be trying to crack a market I really do think is out there, a kind of pop equivalent of celebrity gossip-mag HEAT (which sells TONS here) - trashy, knowing, girl-about-town pop, aimed at a kind of just-post-student, first-job crowd (or that's what it makes me THINK of - being 23, not 13).

Their most teen thing recently was the song on their Xmas cash-in album about being "too old for Santa and too young for the sauce".

Heard on Smash Hits so far:

Brian McFadden - Irish Son - Catholic guilt confessional wimp-rock by ex-boyband guy.
Sugababes - Ugly - self-help R'n'B with strings
McFly - I'll Be OK - basically McFly are a powerpop outfit with a pop-punk accent. I don't like them. I loved some of their brother band Busted's stuff, though, who had no real 60s/70s influence.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:38 (fourteen years ago) link

My "safe" impression was more to do with Hilary Duff, Jesse McCartney, etc. than Pink or Ashlee Simpson, I guess.

Eppy, I don't know! I didn't know European teenpop was stylistically related to chart pop. Just commenting more from a U.S. perspective. I think there's a market for teenpop that's more like the A*Teens in the U.S. Not too hot on U.S. kids just getting "safer" blandness (just generalizing again! I'd like to hear those Hilary songs you mentioned, Frank - we don't have a Radio Disney station here anymore) or sexed up stuff that's kinda inappropriate for them IMO.

xp - Chuck, I don't know if you were referring to my comments, but no, as I say here, I think U.S. teenpop seems like a hodgepodge of "safer" chartpop (Hilary, Jesse) and sexy celebrities (Gwen Stefani, etc.) that young girls are supposed to like,

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I think teenpop explicitly implies early teens. By late teens it's assumed you're getting into that NME kinda music.

Any YSIs anyone wants to provide will be welcomes with open arms.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Click Five is another example of safer blandness. (Maybe Rooney can cross over with their next album. Rooney >>> Click Five.)

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:42 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't think Rooney really has the image to cross over, although I don't know who Click Five is.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Also, I like some of Gwen Stefani's stuff, a few things quite a bit, but her voice does sound as if she suffers from infantilism. Strange: I think Ashlee's "L.O.V.E." beats "Hollaback Girl" and "Rich Girl" soundly, but maybe the richness of Ashlee's throat is what undermines "L.O.V.E." commercially - though it may just be that she lacks Gwen Stefani's street cred.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link

The whole reason for my previous post was so that I could use the phrase "Gwen Stefani's street cred."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Dude, if Weezer is on there, Rooney should have no problem. They don't have to wear dumb suits like the Click Five.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:44 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, but none of them have the charisma of Rivers, and yes, I know what I just said, and yes, I am kind of embarassed.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Ashlee needs to release "Dancing Alone" as her next single, I think. "What's In It For Me" YSI coming up, it was the second biggest selling single of Sweden last year. The biggest was "Money For Nothing" by Darin, which was written by none other than Robyn (From Sweden) and would probably be up this thread's street also.

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Also, I really really like that Weezer song, but I know I'm an outlier. Way more interesting than Rooney FFS.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:46 (fourteen years ago) link

"in conclusion the big british teen pop sensation of the year is The Arctic Monkeys"

I find this pleasing.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:48 (fourteen years ago) link

My contributions to this thread, I'll say now, are based in not knowing a single real actual teenager except my cousin Leila, who lives in Switzerland and who I've never had a conversation about music with. My wife tutors pre-teens but the cultural touchpoints for them at the moment seem to be films, football, videogames, not music really.

Anyway -

Seems to me that in the UK new teenpop acts are few and far between at the moment, the pendulum is perceived to have swung and launches are all solo acts from groups or proven winners from somewhere else.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:48 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't even know how YSI works, but my guess is that with my puny little dialup anything you send would take me out of commission for the six hours it takes to download, so probably it wouldn't work for me.

Would someone provide a URL for Smash Hits radio?

(I was once on the Smash Hits masthead, albeit the Australian one.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:52 (fourteen years ago) link and then click on "radio".

The "Smash Hits Chart" is weird, it may be a year-end or ringtone list, or it may be that Tony Christie and the Crazy Frog are still the favourites.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:53 (fourteen years ago) link

UK teenpop seems to me very eager to reach for the strings when it wants to do something more serious or meaningful.

(Maybe other teenpop does this too, I'm not saying it's just a UK thing, though I recognise the tradition in the UK)

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:55 (fourteen years ago) link

in the safe-silly-novelty-nonconfessional-probably way-pre-teen category, i feel the need to point out emma roberts' "new shoes," which i discovered just last when i found her album in a throwaway pile on someone's desk at work. the rest of the album kinda went in one ear and out the other -- not quite catchy enough, i'm afraid -- but "new shoes," which has a jill sobule writing credit and which is about spotting a great pair of shoes in a store window and then going in and buying them, is more or less the audio equivalent of shania twain's pre-teen daughter in a ramones t-shirt, which i mean in the good way.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:58 (fourteen years ago) link

(Girls Aloud playing now on SHR, by the way.)

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:59 (fourteen years ago) link

I think US teenpop now goes for the power ballad, which is almost indescribably awesome. Cf "Incomplete."

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:02 (fourteen years ago) link

Frank, probably closer to half an hour unless your dial-in modem's still a 28.8k!

Amy Diamond - What's In It For Me?

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:11 (fourteen years ago) link

Not if U.S. teenpop is judged by the Disney Channel it doesn't. Nary a power ballad yet on there. But their new movie High School Musical is getting featured pretty prominently (and looks awesome).

Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link

Back around the time of "I'm Not A Girl (Not Yet A Woman)" I started to think that Britney was going to make the transition to actively courting adult listeners (not just adult men watching her videos) by becoming another Faith Hill - semicountry balladry. Anybody else think that's gonna be the move, when she comes back? After all, she's a mom now.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link

Also, I'm glad someone's still listening to JoJo. Yay for JoJo!

Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Thursday, 5 January 2006 21:23 (fourteen years ago) link

chaz church is a great celebrity and in theory a great popstar, in practice an extremely boring popstar. she has a couple of ok-ish songs but no great or even very good ones.

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 13 November 2006 11:45 (thirteen years ago) link


her TV show is supposed to be silly btw (first series went out 10pm on Fridays in order to catch at least the first wave of the "just got home from the pub" audience). I'm sure she's "botherd" if the accents are off

also the duets tend to be exercises in trying to outsing her guests

zebedee (zebedee), Monday, 13 November 2006 11:54 (thirteen years ago) link

Speaking of country accents (I'll post this on the country thread, too), am I the only one who really doesn't hear Hannah/Miley's voice as country at all (or at least as a lot less country, than, say, Hope Partlow's)? It must be there, especially if Metal Mike heard it, but I'm wondering if people are imagining a twang and drawl just a little thanks to her achy breaky dad. Or maybe I'm just deaf...

xhuxk (xheddy), Monday, 13 November 2006 12:28 (thirteen years ago) link

(Also should add that, what with Jon Tester's victory, this has been quite a week for Montana. I almost imagine Disney planning that way, like they pegged the state as the future before the news media did. Word now is that unemployed Detroit auto workers are moving there...)

xhuxk (xheddy), Monday, 13 November 2006 12:37 (thirteen years ago) link

(Maybe they're hoping to be dental floss tycoons.)

xhuxk (xheddy), Monday, 13 November 2006 12:46 (thirteen years ago) link

Speaking of country accents (I'll post this on the country thread, too), am I the only one who really doesn't hear Hannah/Miley's voice as country at all (or at least as a lot less country, than, say, Hope Partlow's)? It must be there, especially if Metal Mike heard it, but I'm wondering if people are imagining a twang and drawl just a little thanks to her achy breaky dad. Or maybe I'm just deaf...

Miley has a really strong southern accent in her speaking voice. I hear country in her voice. I might be predisposed to hearing country in her because since I watch the show, I've heard her speaking voice a lot.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Monday, 13 November 2006 15:13 (thirteen years ago) link

Jeff, I'd be interested in what you think is going on with Charlotte. The "what" - not to mention the "what the fuck?" - is easy to find online, but not the "why."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 16:36 (thirteen years ago) link

"Best of Both Worlds" has a pronounced* southern accent in the verses (but not particularly a country way of phrasing). The southern accent is barely present on "Who Said" (which nonetheless has a twangy guitar), except for the twist she puts on a few words at the end of a line: "magazines," "my way." And it seems gone altogether from "I Got Nerve."

*One does tend to pronounce one's accent, doesn't one?

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 16:52 (thirteen years ago) link

Jeff, I worded that poorly between my whats and whys. But why do you suppose Charlotte is popular? What's the general feeling fans and antifans have towards her? That sort of thing. What might her role in the culture be?

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 16:55 (thirteen years ago) link

Q: Can one be a great popstar while having few actual good records? (I'm thinking of Cher, who's only done four or five songs I've liked, mostly from her Sonny days. Yet I feel positive towards her as a star.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 17:00 (thirteen years ago) link

ha, me too re cher.

chaz is popular because she's perceived as very down-to-earth (authentic, even!). she's hard-drinking and gets into fights but not so much that she's thought of as a mess - just a normal young woman. she hasn't noticeably slimmed down at any point so is seen as striking a blow for normal-sized women (while still being attractive to str8 men). she's very straight-talking and funny in interviews. she didn't move to london after she got famous and still hangs out with all her old cardiff mates.

these things count more than having good songs in britain at the moment! though the new chat show has received such slatings that the pendulum may be swinging back (i haven't seen it yet).

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 13 November 2006 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link


I suspect a lot of what has made Charlotte a popular celebrity is her willingness to fuck up in public and her complete lack of pretension. (edit: i.e. what The Lex says + also she's still v. close to her family)

I think you can argue that CC isn't really a pop star - or at least is less of one now than in her Voice of An Angel days. Making records and singing on her TV show is now just one element of the CC package. Same with Cher, now that you mention it. (So I would certainly answer your question above in the affirmative.)

Jeff W (zebedee), Monday, 13 November 2006 17:18 (thirteen years ago) link

btw Frank, have you seen this yet?

Jeff W (zebedee), Monday, 13 November 2006 17:25 (thirteen years ago) link

also she's still v. close to her family

despite her mother being a mentalist fame-hungry cow! (both v obviously in public, and also the PA of the student mag i edited was a long-time acquaintance of m4ri4 church and told us this.)

jeff is right that the chaz brand isn't popstar per se, it's more...all-round entertainer. why she is given 'permission' to be a popstar as part of this and someone like paris hilton isn't is interesting! (with chaz her early career is proof that she has the singing chops, which is a fairly unassailable argument for the british public. there was a mini-spat between chaz and cheryl tweedy of girls aloud a while ago - cheryl accused chaz of biting their style, chaz responded "when she can sing the fucking ave maria she can talk to me".)

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 13 November 2006 17:27 (thirteen years ago) link

Um, back to Hannah Montana for a second. Not much of a Southern accent in Miley's speaking voice, either. (Maybe kids in the Nashville 'burbs don't have Southern accents anymore.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 18:32 (thirteen years ago) link

Charlotte has about ten times more stage presence than Ashlee (at least as a chatterer). I got really uncomfortable seeing Ashlee so pliant and cute and accommodating and nervous. It's like the self is scurrying around trying to stay out of sight behind behavioral tics. (Maybe it's not safe to come alive in your own identity.) Never saw Ashlee's reality show, in which apparently she charmed everybody.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 18:53 (thirteen years ago) link

If you're curious about the Hannah Montana show, go to pixelgirl's YouTube stash and work backwards; you'll find clips from Programs 1 through 14. I may do this someday, at least check on a few. On episode one, the basic plot structure seemed the same as Lizzie McQuire's: (1) Miley has a several close friends, (2) something happens to test her friendship with one or more of them, and (3) the friendship is reaffirmed.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:33 (thirteen years ago) link

go to pixelgirl's YouTube stash and work backwards

Or work forwards. You know what I mean.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:34 (thirteen years ago) link

Speaking of "Cobrastyle," Robyn's "Cobrastyle" is on her MySpace page (as are "Jack U Off" and "Konichiwa Bitches"). Supposedly the album's coming out one of these days in Britain, less than two years too late. "Konichiwa Bitches" will be the single. (As for the U.S....?)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:17 (thirteen years ago) link

UK release! And live dates to be announced soon!
Current mood: excited

'The Rakamonie E.P.' is released in the UK on 20th November on Konichiwa Records and contains exclusive versions of tracks not available anywhere else...

1. Konichiwa Bitches
2. Cobrastyle
3. List Of Demands (Live Featuring Jenny Wilson)
4. Be Mine (Ballad Version)
5. Jack U Off

...and some very special live shows are to be announced soon. Keep checking myspace for updates!

new look web site launched 1st November!

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:19 (thirteen years ago) link

(So I don't know if the album will be released, just the EP.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link

Does anyone else think "I Got Nerve" is a rewrite of "Sk8r Boi"? Not a bad one, but still. I think the fact that I haven't yet heard Hannah/Miley get within a country mile of the melody on any single I've heard is a bigger problem.

The Hannah Montana phenomenon mystifies me. The first time I heard "Best of Both Worlds" I thought, "WTF? A song about what life's like when you're a rock star (by someone who isn't yet, but that's different WTF) who goes to high school during the day? What exactly is a kid supposed to identify with here?"

Well, clearly there's something there. But I still don't know what it is. Any advice?

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Forgot to mention that it occurred to me at the Cheetah Girls show a coupla weeks ago how much the "teenpop" audience is actually a good few years younger. (The average age at this show was about 10.)

My guess is the Cheetah Girls, for example, serve as a (re)assurance that the teenagerhood that's looming can be a fun, friend-filled experience. It's a different deal when you send that message to kids who aren't yet in that age group, as opposed to kids who are.

That's what I based my review on, anyway. I didn't much like the show, but since they drew 3,000 people in Providence less than a year ago and around 10,000 last week, I was intrigued.

This may have been covered upthread, but after 1,000 posts I can't give every one the scrutiny it deserves.

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:49 (thirteen years ago) link

Not much of a Southern accent in Miley's speaking voice, either

(Of course I can't let a discussion of teen TV go by).

Miley's southern accent on the show comes and goes. She talks like she has a retainer in her mouth. It's weird. But her acting has markedly improved over time.

Hannah Montana IS a ripoff of Lizzie (not just a group of friends, but one girl friend and one guy friend + one brother, etc, etc). Of course, just about every Diz/Nick show post Lizzie is the same. Actually Phil of the Future followed more in the vein of Even Stevens. Disney Channel is hardly noted for being original. I've written way more about HM on my blog, so I'm just gonna stop here.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Monday, 13 November 2006 22:09 (thirteen years ago) link

Well, clearly there's something there. But I still don't know what it is. Any advice?

I think Hannah has about a 50% success ratio (and yeah, the only obvious accent is in the theme song, but it was first, hence the lasting impression despite her getting progressively "Sk8er Boi"-by-way-of-Hilary, which means ditching the accent...I mean, Hilary's from Houston fer cryin' out loud).

But the reason it's huge, as has been said a couple of times, is that Disney has given it a major media blitz through its own outlets, which is enough -- almost without any outside recognition at all -- to make a dent on the Billboard charts. (Disney kids wouldn't have a WTF reaction to "Best of Both Worlds," because they were introduced to it as the theme song to the show; it simply outlines the premise). Disney Channel plays Hannah/Aly&AJ/Vanessa Hudgens on alternating commercial breaks, and there's some major deck-stacking going on with Radio Disney's "democratic" voting system. I.e., in any given month, three out of four (if not four out of four) artists introduced into rotation (via the "Music Mailbag") are from Hollywood. I think Cheetah Girls have had about four new singles introduced in a little under two months.

Which isn't to say none of the music's any good (some of it is great), but at some level the popularity of it has little to do with how good it actually is.

nameom (nameom), Monday, 13 November 2006 22:59 (thirteen years ago) link

one girl friend and one guy friend + one brother

So was Lizzie a ripoff of Clarrisa Explains It All in the first place (except for, you know, the songs part) (and the part about Clarissa being sort of a weirdo) (among other stuff?) (actually i'm not even sure the girlpal + guypal + brother applies.)

xhuxk (xheddy), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 00:46 (thirteen years ago) link

What do the Humberts think of the new Good Charlotte single?

Stabbing Westward shout-out to their favorite brands. Really grown on me.

Zwan (miccio), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 01:17 (thirteen years ago) link

So was Lizzie a ripoff of Clarrisa Explains It All in the first place (except for, you know, the songs part) (and the part about Clarissa being sort of a weirdo) (among other stuff?) (actually i'm not even sure the girlpal + guypal + brother applies.)

Lizzie and Clarissa aren't great comparisons, but they are OK. Did Clarissa have a girl friend? I don't recall. Lizzie was much more of an everygirl with very simple and every day plots. Like for example not wanting to spend time with parents, doing badly on a test, being made fun of by popular girls, etc., etc. Whereas Clarissa seems much wackier. I can't really think of a touchstone that Lizzie drew off of enough to call it a "rip-off". At least not among tv shows. It's kind of like a younger and tv version of a Hughes movie though. Whereas Hannah (which I do like by the way) rips off both Lizzie AND The Famous Jett Jackson.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 01:39 (thirteen years ago) link

By the way (and not to get this thread too off track) also following girl + girl friend + guy friend + brother formula:

That's So Raven, Unfabulous, Naturally Sadie, Read It and Weep.

May not seem like much, but well more than half of the shows Diz has developed since, plus a Nick show that came out right after Lizzie broke out, plus their most recent hit original movie. The formula seems to work for them.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 01:44 (thirteen years ago) link

You're not off track at all, Greg.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 17:10 (thirteen years ago) link

Latest from Brie Larson's blog:

I went to the EMAs last night because Hoot was nominated for "Best Feature with an Environmentally Conscious Plot With Cute Butts"

or something like that. I don't remember. They gave out free organic chocolate and Real Food Daily catered and thats all that matters in life so everything else is seemingly flat.

we lost to Ice Age.

But Sara was there and won for "Darcy's Wild Life" but also lost at the same time with her H20 commercial (Feel free to bring up the part where she says "ITS NOT A QUANTITY, ITS ABOUT ACCESS!"). People dropped their awards and broke them. Many remarks were made that were, in fact, sexual. And the Wonder Pets sang a song about saving a tree for what seemed like 20 minutes (But it was the best 20 minutes of my life).

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 06:13 (thirteen years ago) link

A couple interesting categories (but not as many as last year) for the next Radio Disney Awards:

Best Group Made of Brothers / Sisters
Jonas Brothers
Aly & AJ

Best Song To Listen To While Getting Ready For School
Rush - Aly & AJ
Start Of Something New - Troy & Gabriella
Unwritten - Natasha Bedingfield
I Got Nerve - Miley Cyrus

Best Artist Or Song Your Teacher Likes
Crazy - Gnarls Barkley
Too Little Too Late - JoJo
Gonna Make U Sweat - C & C Music Factory
So Sick - Ne-Yo

(What was their criteria for choosing the "Teacher Likes" category?)Can't seem to figure out how to vote for the BONUS "Best Ringtone" category. Also, there should be a write-in option.

nameom (nameom), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:32 (thirteen years ago) link

In possibly teen pop related chart news this week (US Billboard Charts):

JT's "My Love" holds at #1 for the third week. "Fergalicious" stays at number 3, Beyonce's "Irreplaceable" jumps to number 4. Those two songs seem to be JT's biggest competitor for next week. "Irreplaceable" has been the Biggest Airplay Gainer 2 weeks in a row. Bowling For Soup's "High School Never Ends" debuts at number 97. Radio Diz is ahead of the curve yet again. I like it better than "1985" for what it's worth, though they are obviously extremely similar songs.

On the album chart, Hannah Montana falls to 5th, but still sold 136,000 copies, which is a very strong week. That would be enough to top the charts in some of the slow summer weeks. Now 23 debuts at the top of the charts.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:28 (thirteen years ago) link

I like the keyboards in that Good Charlotte song, but man it's tuneless.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link

To my complete and utter nonsurprise, the Plug Independent Music Awards nominees did not include Brooke Hogan's Undiscovered in the Album Of The Year category, nor did it include Meg & Dia's Something Real as Indie Rock Album, or Lil Jon as Male Artist Of The Year, or Scott Storch as Record Producer, or Grak's "Seven Nation Army" as Video, or much else that I'd nominated. The two exceptions were the Hold Steady album (on the ballot under Indie Rock) and ilX (under Music Website). Other nonfinalists I'd nominated included Simian Mobile Disco's "Hustler" (which I'd nominated for Video and for Song), Ms. Peachez "Fry That Chicken" (Video), Marion Raven (Metal Album), Pitbull's El Mariel (Hip-Hop), Brooke Hogan's "About Us" and Girl Authority's "Hollaback Girl" and Hi_Tack's "Say Say Say" (all under Song). Etc.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 17 November 2006 07:34 (thirteen years ago) link

Brie Larson: savior of 'zine culture. Bunnies and Traps available for pre-order soon. And something about a webcam show that you have access to with your subscription.

no problem!

just hook up your video camera to your computer, along with headphone and a microphone(if you have it) and be happy, ya bitch.

1.) Brie Larson.
2.) Costumes.
3.) Friends and fellow contributors(i.e. golie, travis, matt, sorry guys that I didn't tell you about it first, but you are doing it dammit! even if it costs me a tray of rice crispies with extra butter)
4.) Photos!
5.) Pictionary!
6.) Titties! ask darren for more info.

The reason I tell you about this now, my lovelies, is because this Zine will cost you a pretty penny. So start saving now and be part of the fun!

nameom (nameom), Friday, 17 November 2006 22:17 (thirteen years ago) link

Tot rock song of the year is probably "Toilet Master" by Rock Jack. Kid burbles and babbles up and around the beat - probably a natural but I bet he practices, and seems to do his own lyrics. For accompaniment he's got the rare punk band with the throb of music within it.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 18 November 2006 02:30 (thirteen years ago) link

Indie moms = Soccer moms

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 19 November 2006 01:23 (thirteen years ago) link

Ha ha, Lalena was Magnolia's coach last year, starting with the rock camp for girls! (AND she draws for the Wonder Pets, whose tree song Brie Larsen loved so much. Though apparently the episode they're working on this week has been about saving a chameleon instead.)

xhuxk (xheddy), Sunday, 19 November 2006 01:33 (thirteen years ago) link

Actually, Magonolia, written about in the lead of that linkable-a-half-hour-ago-but-apparently-not-anymore-what-the-heck? Times piece that Frank linked to two posts above, are a two-girl spinoff band of Hellish Relish, who can be read about here:

xhuxk (xheddy), Sunday, 19 November 2006 01:56 (thirteen years ago) link

New Avril single, from the soundtrack to Eragon. Keep Holding On. It's...pleasant I guess. Sounds like a worse version of Kelly Clarkson. Actually, as I understand it "Breakaway" was originally written for her, and I guess this is what it would have turned out like if they had gone through with it. I like Kelly better. Still, not a bad song. Seems like she may be going "mature" now, but I actually kind of liked her in "bratty" mode better than "mature" mode.

Clips from three songs to appear on the upcoming album fromKatharine McPhee posted to one of her fansites. Kat was, despite her horrible inconsistency, my favorite of the contestants on American Idol 5. She was always classy and old-timey jazzy/bluesy on the show and so I had assumed they were going to go in that direction for the album. But it's very R&B-ish. "Open Toes" is pretty much standard fare current uptempo R&B, but pretty good. "Over It" is a ripoff of JoJo, but I again think it's a good song. "Each Other" is a white R&B ballad, kind of boring. Album could be successful or could be a huge flop, I'm not really sure at this point.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 00:05 (thirteen years ago) link

Hat tip to Message Board for the Avril pointer, by the way.

Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 13:29 (thirteen years ago) link

Times link is working for me, but I'm registered with the Times. (In a few days the article might go pay only, however, which is what often happens after a week.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:27 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm posting both the Radio Disney 50 most-played songs for last week and the Radio Disney Top 30 as posted on the Disney site today, to see what discrepancies there are. Mediabase claims that the KDIS playlist includes both currents and recurrents, but I'm guessing that some oldies are considered too old to be classified even as recurrents and therefore aren't listed at all, or something: that is, I don't believe "The Cha Cha Slide" gets fewer than six plays a week. (I tuned in a couple of nights ago, and there it was.) I'd guess that "Gonna Make You Sweat" gets more as well. Notice on the playlist there's a top tier (through song eight) with spins in the high 60s and 70s, and then we drop precipitously to spins in the low 30s, starting with song nine. Cheetahs seem not to have staying power, hurrah.

Los Angeles - 1110 AM (Radio Disney)
LW: Nov 4 - Nov 10 TW: Nov 11 - Nov 17 Updated: Sat Nov 18 2:18 PM PST

lw TW Artist Title spinsTW spinslw +/- Reach/Mill
2 1 HANNAH MONTANA If We Were A Movie 77 77 0 0.3417
4 2 VANESSA HUDGENS Come Back To Me 75 74 1 0.3349
1 3 ASHLEY TISDALE Kiss The Girl 75 78 -3 0.3163
3 4 JESSE MCCARTNEY Right Where You Want Me 74 75 -1 0.3155
5 5 JONAS BROTHERS Year 3000 73 73 0 0.3134
10 6 JONAS BROTHERS Poor Unfortunate Soul 72 32 40 0.299
7 7 HANNAH MONTANA I've Got Nerve 72 72 0 0.2963
6 8 HANNAH MONTANA Best Of Both Worlds 68 73 -5 0.2854
13 9 B5 Keep Your Head In The Game 33 30 3 0.1353
14 10 BOWLING FOR SOUP 1985 33 30 3 0.1481
24 11 NATASHA BEDINGFIELD Unwritten 32 26 6 0.1346
18 12 RIHANNA SOS 32 30 2 0.1359
19 13 ALY & A.J. Chemicals React 31 29 2 0.1284
9 14 JOJO Too Little Too Late 31 34 -3 0.1378
17 15 RIHANNA Pon De Replay 31 30 1 0.1267
23 16 CHEETAH GIRLS The Party's Just Begun 30 28 2 0.1273
22 17 CHEETAH GIRLS Amigas Cheetahs 29 28 1 0.1368
34 18 CHEETAH GIRLS Route 66 29 17 12 0.1265
8 19 HANNAH MONTANA Who Said 29 72 -43 0.1111
20 20 CHEETAH GIRLS Step Up 28 29 -1 0.1143
15 21 CHEETAH GIRLS Strut 28 30 -2 0.1232
16 22 HAYLIE DUFF Material Girl 28 30 -2 0.1232
21 23 HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL We're All In This Together 28 29 -1 0.1156
29 24 DANIEL POWTER Bad Day 28 24 4 0.1263
12 25 ALY & A.J. Rush 27 30 -3 0.1295
28 26 CRAZY FROG Axel F 27 24 3 0.1069
96 27 ALY & A.J. Greatest Time Of Year 26 1 25 0.1244
11 28 CHRIS BROWN Yo (Excuse Me Miss) 26 31 -5 0.0942
27 29 BOWLING FOR SOUP High School Never Ends 24 25 -1 0.1074
30 30 CRAZY FROG We Are The Champions 22 23 -1 0.0943
25 31 EVERLIFE Find Yourself In You 22 26 -4 0.0833
32 32 HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL Breaking Free 18 18 0 0.0833
31 33 BELINDA Why Wait 17 20 -3 0.0605
36 34 HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL Start Of Something New 15 13 2 0.052
35 35 EVERLIFE Look Through My Eyes 14 17 -3 0.0591
-- 36 SMASH MOUTH So Insane 13 0 13 0.073
-- 37 SMASH MOUTH The Crawl 9 0 9 0.0434
37 38 B5 Who's Afraid Of The Big Bad Wolf 7 8 -1 0.0553
47 39 BLACK EYED PEAS Let's Get It Started 7 5 2 0.03
63 40 KELLY CLARKSON Walk Away 6 4 2 0.016
65 41 HANNAH MONTANA Pumpin' Up The Party 6 4 2 0.0288
54 42 NELLY Over And Over (f/Tim McGraw) 6 5 1 0.0178
67 43 SIMPLE PLAN Shut Up 6 4 2 0.0204
43 44 ASHLEE SIMPSON Boyfriend 6 6 0 0.0226
56 45 ASHLEE SIMPSON Pieces Of Me 6 5 1 0.0244
69 46 RAVEN SYMONE Backflip 6 4 2 0.0173
58 47 WEEZER Beverly Hills 6 5 1 0.0111
45 48 B5 Dance For You 5 5 0 0.0148
60 49 B5 U Got Me 5 4 1 0.0135
48 50 BOWLING FOR SOUP Almost 5 5 0 0.0219

This is the Radio Disney Top 30 as posted on its site today, though they played the list on-air yesterday morning, so I'm guessing the week runs either to the 17th or the 18th. I'm not sure how they compile the Top 30, but requests must have a lot to do with it. I've bolded anything that's at least 10 places lower than the airplay standings, italicized anything that's 10 places higher.

For November 20, 2006

1 2 Hannah Montana "If We Were a Movie"
2 1 Ashley Tisdale "Kiss the Girl"
3 8 Hannah Montana "Best of Both Worlds"
4 3 Vanessa Hudgens "Come Back to Me"
5 9 Jonas Brothers "Year 3000"
6 5 Hannah Montana "I Got Nerve"
7 7 Jesse McCartney "Right Where You Want Me"
8 4 Mr C The Slide Man "Cha Cha Slide"
9 12 Hannah Montana "Who Said"
10 20 Jesse McCartney "Beautiful Soul"
11 6 Jonas Brothers "Poor Unfortunate Souls"
12 13 Crazy Frog "Crazy Frog (Axel F)"
13 10 JoJo "Too Little, Too Late"
14 -- Cheetah Girls "Cinderella"
15 15 Hannah Montana "Pumpin' Up the Party"
16 -- Jonas Brothers "Mandy"
17 11 Bowling For Soup "1985"
18 28 Hampton the Hampster "Hampsterdance Song"
19 21 High School Musical Cast "We're All In This Together"
20 24 Cheetah Girls "Amigas Cheetahs"
21 16 Aly and AJ "Rush"
22 26 Akon "Lonely"
23 debut Hilary Duff "Material Girl"
24 27 Aly and AJ "Chemicals React"
25 -- B5 "Get'cha Head In The Game"
26 18 Troy and Gabriella "Breaking Free"
27 23 Rihanna "S.O.S."
28 19 B5 "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf"
29 25 Cheetah Girls "The Party's Just Begun"
30 17 Cheetah Girls "Step Up"

I was assuming that most of the bold would be Disney product and most of the italics would be non-Disney. The numbers I get for BOLD are Disney 4, non-Disney 1. The numbers I get for italics are Disney 4, non-Disney 5. This is not as strong a result as I'd expected, esp. since I'm guessing that the non-Disney "Cha Cha Slide" is getting uncounted airplay. Also, notice some non-Disney product that's getting airplay but not making the site list (Tashbed, Powter). But then again, "Strut" and "Route 66" are Disney product that's in the Top 30 in airplay but isn't making the Disney chart. Basically, the Cheetahs are getting more airplay than requests, and that's the difference, if my assumption is correct about how they compile the site's Top 30 (but notice that "Cinderella" is an exception, getting more requests than airplay).

(Um, are the Hilary and Haylie versions of "Material Girl" different recordings, or is that a mistake?)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:31 (thirteen years ago) link

I like "Keep Holding On" but not nearly as much as the slow wailers like "Unwanted" on the first Avril album. I'd classify "Keep Holding On" as a power ballad, which is the sort of thing that can fall on either side of the "maturity/immaturity" demarcation (or the "young/old" demarcation, anyway).

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:41 (thirteen years ago) link

Of the two McPhees I downloaded, I way prefer the JoJo rip ("Over It") to the Beyoncé stutter-toe workout ("Open Toes"); the latter isn't bad at all, and there are good insertions of harmony and lots of wails and melismas, but I don't know how it'll stand out from the pack. In "Over It" I'm not hearing a distinctive voice, but it's got the same exquisite sad prettiness as "Too Little Too Late," which must not be easy to do or more people would do it. We'll see how the song holds up. She says on her blog that she's working with Babyface, though I don't know if she worked with him on those two tracks.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:16 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm liking Jesse McCartney's "Right Where You Want Me," which reminds me of *NSync, year 2000, Timberlake's braying-goat period (a sound I enjoy).

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link

"Material Girl" is both of them together.

Thanks for posting both lists, I checked both today and didn't see huge discrepancies, but the Cheetah Girls gap suggests that the online votes aren't tampered with (which probably wouldn't be too hard to do).

nameom (nameom), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:26 (thirteen years ago) link

one month passes...
OK, I'm officially starting the rolling teenpop 2007 thread, so post all further comments there.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 4 January 2007 02:42 (thirteen years ago) link

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