Miles Davis - In A Silent Way

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I\'ve been listening to this practically on a loop for the past couple of days. Apart from Kind Of Blue it\'s the only Miles Davis I\'ve heard. I do like Kind Of Blue, but I suppose it doesn\'t excite me as much, probably because it\'s more straight jazz improv., which doesn\'t resonate with me so well. But there\'s something almost krautrockish about In A Silent Way, it could almost be some outtake from a Can session or something.

Anyway, can anyone recommend me stuff - either Miles Davies or anyone else - that someone who has been listening intensively to In A Silent Way would get a kick out of? I\'ve heard conflicting reports about Bitches Brew...

Stephane R., Thursday, 3 November 2005 12:07 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Conflicting? How strange. I think you should listen to BB as quickly as possible.

Patchouli Clark (noodle vague), Thursday, 3 November 2005 12:12 (twelve years ago) Permalink

In A Silent Way is my favourite Miles Davis album, but yeah you need to hear Bitches Brew soon.
Check out Agharta too!

Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Thursday, 3 November 2005 13:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

yeah, I've thought Silent Way was very pre-krautrock. in that mode, also check out On the Corner. funkier, more raucous than In A Silent Way, but the same kind of extended, rhythmic trance-jazz going on

Dominique (dleone), Thursday, 3 November 2005 13:14 (twelve years ago) Permalink

In A Silent Way = classic.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 3 November 2005 13:39 (twelve years ago) Permalink

If you like in In a Silent Way, you should check out Herbie Hancock's LPs with his Mwandishi sextet (Mwandishi, Crossings, and Sextant). A lot of similar ideas there, but they're a bit more free and funky. Sextant is probably my favourite jazz LP ever, even better than IaSW.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 3 November 2005 13:56 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Ohh Sextant my dear, you are so sweet, so sweet.
Don't forget the Eddie Henderson albums of the Mwandishi band either: "Realization" and "Inside Out".

As for Miles, well, the other electric albums aren't really quite like In A Silent Way, as they're usually a bit more, eh, lively, I guess. I see no reason in hell for you not to run run run run and get Bitches Brew right away though. Or Live-Evil. Mmmm, Live-Evil.

Øystein (Øystein), Thursday, 3 November 2005 14:05 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Bitches Brew is a classic album but I think it's fair to say that it sounds absolutely nothing like anything you've heard on Kind Of Blue or In A Silent Way.

As regards recommendations for something "that someone who has been listening intensively to In A Silent Way would get a kick out of", the first thing that came into my head was The Soft Machine's Third - but I'm not at all sure sure I could explain why....

(x-post)

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 3 November 2005 14:05 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Everyone's recommending the wrong direction. Go backwards to Filles de Kilimanjaro or Water Babies.

Andrew Norman, Thursday, 3 November 2005 14:09 (twelve years ago) Permalink

This is probably a bit too much right now, but The Complete Silent Way Sessions is interesting in that it demonstrates how the record was assembled through editing (a studio technique which wasn't associated with jazz at the time).

The Miles records to check out if you enjoy Silent Way:
ESP (the brilliant quintet that immediately preceded the electric shift in Miles' music)
Bitches Brew (more electric stuff, might strike you as a confused mess at first)
Jack Johnson (immensely powerful 'rock' record with McLaughlin, may be Miles' last genius record)
Agharta/Pangaea (the full-on Sly Stone/Stockhausen funk apocalypse, live shows Tokyo 1975)
Get Up With It (schizophrenic record, bits of studio experimentation; features the side-long 'Amarcord' which inspired Eno's On Land)
On the Corner (very strange, prickly record that seems to have been created with maximum annoyance in mind, I never quite understood the love this record receives, but definitely worth checking out)

If you want to get away from Miles a bit, I think the Soul Jazz compilations New Thing! or Universal Sounds of America do a good job of rounding up the best electric jazz circa the late 60s-early 70s.

Brakhage (brakhage), Thursday, 3 November 2005 15:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

In a Silent Way has also been occupying a LARGE amount of my listening lately.

There are some grooves on there that are just thick.

Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Thursday, 3 November 2005 15:15 (twelve years ago) Permalink

The nearest thing to In A Silent Way that I can think of is Future Days by Can.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 3 November 2005 15:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Future Days is a great recommendation!

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Thursday, 3 November 2005 15:30 (twelve years ago) Permalink

timeless by jon abercrombie is the nicest In A Silent Way cousin that I know of

also check out the 'zawinul' alb which contains a diff. version of In A Silent Way, including the material that miles deleted from the tune - v. instructive insight into the miles method

Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 3 November 2005 15:33 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Everyone's recommending the wrong direction. Go backwards to Filles de Kilimanjaro or Water Babies.

OTMFM!

I do feel guilty for getting any perverse amusement out of it (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 3 November 2005 16:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Seconded. The reasons for liking Silent Way and Kind of Blue are almost completely unrelated to the reasons one might like Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson, or On the Corner.

You might also like Nefertiti or The Sorcerer, though they'd be more difficult listening than either of the ones you've heard.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 3 November 2005 16:09 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Am I the only one who think's Pole's early records, especially 1, can be seen building on what Miles did with In a Silent Way? Sure, formally they belong to a different genre, but there's a similar feel to them.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 3 November 2005 16:10 (twelve years ago) Permalink

But there's something almost krautrockish about In A Silent Way, it could almost be some outtake from a Can session or something

You've got it backwards. Tago Mago could almost be an outtake from a Bitches Brew session, not the other way around.

John Hunter, Thursday, 3 November 2005 16:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Aside from Herbie Handcock / Mwandishi (which is fairly funky) for spacier / "mellow" fusion there is a Joe Zawinul record from that time (featuring Herbie). It may be called "Zawinul" and has a song on it called Dr Honoris Causa and another version (not as good) of "In a Silent Way" (composed by Joe Z). I haven't heard it in years, but I liked it at the time and often played it with IaSW.

steve ketchup, Thursday, 3 November 2005 16:28 (twelve years ago) Permalink

i seem to recall (vaguely) Brian Eno crediting Miles' producer Teo Macero with a lot of the methods and ideas he utilized on the early ambient stuff. And though i wouldn't say that Eno's music really sounds a lot like In A Silent Way, I can pick up a similar mood in some of it, esp. Another Green World's more "becalmed" tracks.

Tyler Wilcox (tylerw), Thursday, 3 November 2005 16:29 (twelve years ago) Permalink

The Future Days recommendation is great. I would toss in the Cinematic Orchestra in there too.

The Eno connection is "Amarcord", dedicated to Ellington, on the Get Up With It record. Eno mentioned it as inspiring Ambient 4: On Land. It's a really interesting, spacey track.

Brakhage (brakhage), Thursday, 3 November 2005 16:52 (twelve years ago) Permalink

But there's something almost krautrockish about In A Silent Way, it could almost be some outtake from a Can session or something

In a Silent Way = February 1969

Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 3 November 2005 16:56 (twelve years ago) Permalink

might want to check out dave douglas' 'freak in'. a little bit of electronics mixed in, but it seems to cover some similar ground. 'strange liberation' is pretty interesting as well, though it approaches bop on a few tracks.

wolves (wolves), Thursday, 3 November 2005 17:20 (twelve years ago) Permalink

x-post

While being a contemporary record, Dave Douglas' "The Infinite" taps into a similar space as In A Silent Way.

"Odyssey of Iska" by Wayne Shorter was recorded around that same time on Blue Note and it also similar in feel to In A Silent Way.

earlnash, Thursday, 3 November 2005 17:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

This is probably a bit too much right now, but The Complete Silent Way Sessions is interesting in that it demonstrates how the record was assembled through editing (a studio technique which wasn't associated with jazz at the time).

The Complete Silent Way Sessions is amazing listening, not just for the extra music but for the insight --

The original take of 'Shhh/Peaceful' actually hinges upon an extended melodic phrase that sounds exactly like a Miles In The Sky era composition -- it's a fantastic melody they return to about every four minutes or so. The one bar riff (the descending two note bassline) is just a downtime noodle they stretch out on between that phrase.

Macero cuts the phrase out entirely, leaving just 14 minutes of the improvisation on that one bar riff. Then he takes one of Miles' improvised melodies over the riff, and repeats it at the very beginning and the very end so it becomes a motive that bookends the piece.

I always wondered how the musicians could stay so intensely, maniacly focused on such minimal material -- and the answer is, in the real life performance, they were building and charging towards a composed phrase which they'd refresh themselves with every four minutes before returning to the trance section. It must have taken balls for Macero to cut out the heart of the piece, but the result is nothing is the sound of musicians staying electrified on the most minimal materials imaginable, they would have arrived at either that structure or that magnified focused sound without the editing...

The original phrase they cut out, though -- it's prime Miles, totally beautiful

milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:53 (twelve years ago) Permalink

they wouldn't have arrived

milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 3 November 2005 19:56 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Agreed that going from In A Silent Way to Bitches Brew or On The Corner, if one is in search of more of the same, will be disappointing. Get Up With It, particularly "He Loved Him Madly," might be a good next purchase, though. Future Days is also an excellent suggestion. Also try the Bill Laswell mix-disc Panthalassa, which starts with In A Silent Way and moves gently through other stages of Miles' electric stuff. Very nice.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 3 November 2005 20:00 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Dark Magus is brilliant. Be sure to track down "Go Ahead John" from Big Fun - 28 minutes of Miles blowing a dark river of sound while McLaughlin echoplexes his head off...

I've always been fond of Sketches of Spain as well, though some think it's too mellow / trad.

Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 3 November 2005 21:17 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Thanks to those who recommended On The Corner - I found a few samples and, wow, very intriguing...

Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 3 November 2005 21:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Shit, I mixed up Fellini's "Amarcord" and Miles' "He Loved Him Madly". Both were credited by Eno, blah blah etc.

Brakhage (brakhage), Thursday, 3 November 2005 21:47 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Jon's absolutely right about the orig. take of "Shhh/Peaceful" on The Complete In a Silent Way Sessions -- as in love as I am w/ all things Miles between 1964-1975, my jaw kind of dropped when I realized how that track was assembled. And to think, people actually trash Macero's work from that era...

Also, this record is responsible for me being engaged -- at least indirectly. This spring, I bought said Complete...Sessions box on eBay and lovingly gazed upon it for a few days...until my gf dropped it on the bathroom floor, thus fucking up the packaging (what I was doing leaving it perched on the boombox in the bathroom is another story). At any rate, we got into a huge, stupid fight about it, and to make up for starting said stupid fight, I said we should go to her favorite restaurant that Friday night (Nora, in DC). Since the fight had happened on Monday, by Thursday we almost decided to cancel it, but thought it'd be fun, so we didn't. Anyway, after having agonized over the perfect setting to propose for months, I decided to that night when we were drunk and talking about sentimental things like family.

And honestly, In a Silent Way was never even one of my favorite Miles records.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 4 November 2005 02:20 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Pangaea.

footlog, Friday, 4 November 2005 02:47 (twelve years ago) Permalink

congratulations!

jmeister (jmeister), Friday, 4 November 2005 03:04 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Thanks!

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 4 November 2005 03:09 (twelve years ago) Permalink

i'd suggest anything by the Necks. "Sex" and "Drive-By" definitely remind me of IASW... Every morning when we wake up, my girlfriend and i listen to either in a silent way or future days as we get ready for work.

fffnnnsss, Friday, 4 November 2005 03:12 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Speaking of wacky Teo Macero editing, check out the smidge of Silent Way that Teo drops into the middle of Jack Johnson. I have no idea how he talked Miles into that one.

Brakhage (brakhage), Friday, 4 November 2005 03:45 (twelve years ago) Permalink

And in the Bitches Sessions box they have a handy diagram that shows how Pharoah's dance was edited. I had no idea how meticulous the little tiny loops were.

Brakhage (brakhage), Friday, 4 November 2005 03:48 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Get Up With It has "Rated X" which is one of my favorite Miles things but about as far from In A Silent Way as you can get.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 4 November 2005 03:57 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I have no idea how many times I reach for the tired phrase 'I have no idea'

Brakhage (brakhage), Friday, 4 November 2005 03:57 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Speaking of wacky Teo Macero editing, check out the smidge of Silent Way that Teo drops into the middle of Jack Johnson. I have no idea how he talked Miles into that one.

My guess is: he didn't bother.

And in the Bitches Sessions box they have a handy diagram that shows how Pharoah's dance was edited. I had no idea how meticulous the little tiny loops were.

I only wish that box had done what the others did: actually give you the unedited versions of those tunes (title track's got some fancy razor-work as well) -- instead we got 12 takes of "Little Blue Frog"...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 4 November 2005 04:09 (twelve years ago) Permalink

believe it or not, I never even heard Can's "Future Days" until this summer. Is this commonly regarded as their best album? anyway, very very good analog to "Silent Way." What was that Laswell remix thing of that era-Miles..."Panthalassa"? That's very nice too.

recently saw a half-hour film of Miles at Isle of Wight, sans electric guitar but with Corea and Jarrett. 1970, parts were boring, parts were amazing. DeJohnette was superb.

seconded/thirded on the Dave Douglas stuff, too. he's great. anyone heard his recent couple-albums? isn't there one that's supposed to be like a soundtrack to silent films--Arbuckle or someone?

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Friday, 4 November 2005 04:50 (twelve years ago) Permalink

damn i love that isle of wight performance
airto moreira has these hilariously giddy facial expression the entire time, and confirms, in so many words, that they were hittin the tabs back then during the interview section....
is that the same disc where that asshole santana talks about how much he influenced miles??
what a fuck
but seriously, the DVD is worth the money just for the shots of keith jarrett and airto

capnkickass (gloriagaynor), Friday, 4 November 2005 05:26 (twelve years ago) Permalink

re: the dave douglas comment, i havent heard the most recent stuff on his own label, but bow river falls has some moments that are breathtaking, really... but thats it... just moments... theres a little too much of the EZ-modal bill frisell-in-his-nu-jazz-persona type maudlin rambling on it to make it skippable.... still, hearing douglas improvise with a laptop is different... worth a listen, definately, but not essential by any means...
frisell is actually on the one before that, strange liberation... along with uri caine and chris potter.. its sortof a by-the-numbers thing, though, that really accessable, really consonant stuff those guys have been doing recently... sad to think how on top of it all those guys were in 2001 or so... douglas hasn't slipped like them, but it would be nice to hear them all return to form

capnkickass (gloriagaynor), Friday, 4 November 2005 05:34 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I think Douglas' Freak In is truly great and closer to 70s Miles (not IASW so much) than those other ones. It's possible that I might even enjoy it more than individual MD albums, if only because of the updated electronic technology. I said a little more here. I've still never heard The Infinite.

check out the smidge of Silent Way that Teo drops into the middle of Jack Johnson. I have no idea how he talked Miles into that one.

So this actually was a sample? I mentioned it once to a prof who was convinced that the band just played that bit live.

Sundar (sundar), Friday, 4 November 2005 06:05 (twelve years ago) Permalink

prof was wrong

milton parker (Jon L), Friday, 4 November 2005 06:14 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Wicked.

Sundar (sundar), Friday, 4 November 2005 06:19 (twelve years ago) Permalink

there is a Joe Zawinul record from that time (featuring Herbie). It may be called "Zawinul" and has a song on it called Dr Honoris Causa and another version (not as good) of "In a Silent Way" (composed by Joe Z).

My ex-girlfriend has this, I remember it being quite good, though more conventional than IaSW. I liked the version of "In a Silent Way" in it too. It's sort of a director's cut: the song was originally composed by Zawinul in Vienna when he was watching snowflakes fall on the statue of Mozart. Anyway, apparently he didn't like the treatment Macero and Miles gave to the song, so he wanted to rerecord it in the form he intended it to be.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 4 November 2005 11:51 (twelve years ago) Permalink

believe it or not, I never even heard Can's "Future Days" until this summer. Is this commonly regarded as their best album?

Not by me (see ILM passim et ad infinitium/nauseum)

Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 4 November 2005 12:27 (twelve years ago) Permalink

It's kind of an unusual record in the discography. They were going for something 'symphonic', and aside from Moonshake the record just kind of burbles along. Some of their other tracks sound a bit like it, but that ambient-wash mood isn't sustained for that long.

Brakhage (brakhage), Friday, 4 November 2005 17:23 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"It's kind of an unusual record in the discography"

Soon Over Babaluma being the sequel to Future Days is in some ways similar to how Bitches Brew is to In A Silent Way, as the sounds, techniques and tempos are both turned up a notch in the follow up.

earlnash, Friday, 4 November 2005 17:54 (twelve years ago) Permalink

The torrent for that show is easy to find, but nobody's seeding -- it's been sitting on zero for 6 hrs now.

Don't know if you use slsk but I was able to find it on there.

cwkiii, Tuesday, 18 November 2014 04:05 (three years ago) Permalink

hurting i am digging that wayne shorter track upthread, that is great

marcos, Wednesday, 19 November 2014 22:19 (three years ago) Permalink

yeah, that's my jam

my jaw left (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 22:19 (three years ago) Permalink

It's a Milton Nascimiento (who is singing) tune. He recorded at least a couple earlier versions of the song that are also great.

my jaw left (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 22:20 (three years ago) Permalink

the hubbard is really good too, it reminded me that i have red clay somewhere on my shelves, need to pull that out again!

marcos, Wednesday, 19 November 2014 22:22 (three years ago) Permalink

percussion on mr clean is outstanding

marcos, Wednesday, 19 November 2014 22:24 (three years ago) Permalink

u probably know this but Red Clay = tribe sample

my jaw left (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 22:28 (three years ago) Permalink

yea!

marcos, Wednesday, 19 November 2014 22:29 (three years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Can we talk about how great the organ cold open is on this album? Like the first five seconds?

bit of a singles monster (Eazy), Monday, 2 February 2015 03:02 (three years ago) Permalink

I had five seconds to spare so I thought I'd check. I agree.

I am using your worlds, Monday, 2 February 2015 03:29 (three years ago) Permalink

i agree!

marcos, Monday, 2 February 2015 17:24 (three years ago) Permalink

Has anyone heard the Mobile Fidelity vinyl reissue? I spotted it for $30 and it sure looks nice. I'm not a super hi-fi enthusiast or anything but this is one of my all time favorite albums (esp if you count the box set, which puts it firmly in the top 5) and I imagine it'll sound pretty sweet on the Rega. I actually don't own a vinyl copy of this, either, so it wouldn't be a redundant purchase, necessarily (though I've made many of those over the years). I don't think I own any Mobile Fidelity releases. Should I get it?

Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Monday, 16 February 2015 15:22 (three years ago) Permalink

the organ sound on this is perhaps the best i've heard on any record.

oi listen mate, shut up (dog latin), Monday, 16 February 2015 15:24 (three years ago) Permalink

a good remastered CD of this will sound better than any vinyl copy

I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 16 February 2015 16:55 (three years ago) Permalink

and it will set you back $7

http://www.amazon.com/Silent-Way-Miles-Davis/dp/B00006GO9Q/

I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 16 February 2015 16:56 (three years ago) Permalink

Just heard Mal Waldron's album The Call (recorded in Germany 1971)& it has a definite In A Silent Way vibe.

uhwelluh, Monday, 16 February 2015 18:02 (three years ago) Permalink

I have this on CD - a few times over, actually! Also have the box set. So you don't think the 'half speed master' or whatever makes any discernible difference? I will say that my reissued mono copy of Round About Midnight is one of the sweetest sounding LPs I own (and again, I'm not the type to notice such things unless they're really obvious)

Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Monday, 16 February 2015 18:07 (three years ago) Permalink

if the CD remastering is done well--and it is, at least on the versions from the late 1990s and early 2000s that i know--then i don't see how the LP can really top it, given the inhering limitations of vinyl playback. i mean, if you prefer the sound of vinyl with all the added static etc. then by all means get the vinyl.

xpost

"the call" is a great album. i've been listening to a lot of mal waldron recently.

I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 16 February 2015 18:42 (three years ago) Permalink

if i had to engage in an exercise as silly as picking a best album of all time, there are some days when it would be this one.

Moyes Enthusiast (LocalGarda), Monday, 16 February 2015 22:04 (three years ago) Permalink

This, A Kind Of Blue and Big Fun make me think of Mozart, Rachmaninov, Schubert and the whole fucking universe. Miles is so amazing at his peak.

xelab, Monday, 16 February 2015 23:10 (three years ago) Permalink

Jimmy, that's a pretty good price for a Mofi pressing; if you want it on vinyl and don't want to wait for an original to turn up it's probably worth it. The CD does sound quite good, though, and can be easily found for $5-6 in stores.

rabatment of the rectangle (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Monday, 16 February 2015 23:30 (three years ago) Permalink

Holy smokes this Mal Waldron record is dope.

mizzell, Tuesday, 17 February 2015 02:56 (three years ago) Permalink

Jimmy, that's a pretty good price for a Mofi pressing; if you want it on vinyl and don't want to wait for an original to turn up it's probably worth it. The CD does sound quite good, though, and can be easily found for $5-6 in stores.

― rabatment of the rectangle (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Monday, February 16, 2015 6:30 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thanks! Got it on hold at the record store. I figure, at the very least, it won't be a bummer to own it on vinyl, even if it doesn't blow my mind.

Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Tuesday, 17 February 2015 04:19 (three years ago) Permalink

It's 'Silent Way,' it will blow your mind regardless.

totally unachievable goals and no incentive to compromise (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 17 February 2015 22:42 (three years ago) Permalink

Holy smokes this Mal Waldron record is dope.

^^^ yeah, I was totally unfamiliar with this, thanks for the tip.

Losing swag by the second (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 15:05 (three years ago) Permalink

yeah i just got turned on to that too -- is waldron's other 70s stuff along those lines?

tylerw, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 15:13 (three years ago) Permalink

^^^ yeah, I was totally unfamiliar with this, thanks for the tip.

Same here, thanks!

you make me feel like danzig (WilliamC), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 16:05 (three years ago) Permalink

Mal Waldron is great! Hard Talk is amazing - gets wilder than silent way tho

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 16:05 (three years ago) Permalink

My Mal Waldron experience is limited to the three live Five Spot albums with Eric Dolphy and Booker Little, which I love madly. I should hear the one referenced itt!

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 16:27 (three years ago) Permalink

yeahhh those five spot albums are so amazing. maldron's on a few mingus things from the 50s too, and I've got a couple albums of stuff with coltrane (also from the 50s). but i really don't know anything about the later phase of his career. seems like I've got to catch up!

tylerw, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 16:35 (three years ago) Permalink

his album "first encounter" w/gary peacock rules too (getting off the vibe of of this thread) but just in general he's excellent

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 16:35 (three years ago) Permalink

The only Waldron that comes to mind is "Up Popped the Devil" which is great. I'll have to check out some of these others.

totally unachievable goals and no incentive to compromise (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 17:13 (three years ago) Permalink

y'all know about waldron's work with the band embryo, right? it's not quite the world-historical event that a free jazz/krautrock crossover could and should have been, but it's quite good.

I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 18:55 (three years ago) Permalink

wait i forgot that "the call" /is/ embryo, essentially.

anyway your next stop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbRlAygcMFo

I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 18:56 (three years ago) Permalink

yeah that's what got me on the waldron kick -- "the call" is outstanding.

tylerw, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 18:59 (three years ago) Permalink

I agree with ILM's album poll:

Best Miles Davis Album 1949-1974

✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 22:42 (three years ago) Permalink

I wont argue with the winner but I don't agree with zero votes for Big Fun.

xelab, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 22:48 (three years ago) Permalink

pretty far afield from in a silent way in terms of sound, but i just heard this early attempt at electrifying Miles this week: http://bigozine2.com/roio/?p=2195
terrible recording, sounds like a great performance

tylerw, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 22:54 (three years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

finally getting around to the In A Silent Way sessions. it's interesting when you hear this period's recordings in order - from say '67 through '75 - there's a pretty clear but gradual evolution. It's not like he went from post-bop to Hendrix-style guitars all of a sudden, there's a real continuity to it as the personnel shifts and changes. But it feels like historically the short-hand is that this was so shocking and abrupt, a la Dylan-going-electric, but how much distance is there really, compositionally and sonically, between Miles in the Sky and In A Silent Way? It's not *that* abrupt a shift.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 17:16 (four months ago) Permalink

yeah it's in the keys mostly i would think. i recall crouch's big hit on this stressing the wallpapery background sound of it - which would mean he glommed on to the main differentiator from the 'miles in the sky' sound, too.

j., Tuesday, 12 June 2018 17:19 (four months ago) Permalink

why did jazz dudes hate the fender rhodes initially, was Miles really the first to bring it in? (Obviously Ra loved electric keyboards but he was kinda off in his own little universe) Listening to Chick Corea bitch about being forced to play it is always lol

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 17:22 (four months ago) Permalink

or was that Jarrett? shit I think I'm mixing them up

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 17:24 (four months ago) Permalink

someone else is sure to know better but for sure jarrett bitched about it and steered clear as soon as he could; i thought corea was playing electric in one of his own bands well enough past this?

j., Tuesday, 12 June 2018 17:32 (four months ago) Permalink

Things to remember:

- Miles in the Sky didn't sell very well at the time; it was kind of a forgotten album for a lot of years
- In a Silent Way was a breakthrough because it was where rock critics started paying attention, and (then as now) very few of them journeyed backwards to contextualize what they were hearing

Generally speaking, I agree that there's a clear evolutionary process going on, with the big leap being the introduction of electric guitar all the time. Prior to IASW, Miles had only had guitar on Miles in the Sky, and even there it was George Benson. The other, weirder track with guitar - "Water on the Pond," IIRC - was left in the vault until the mid '70s. But when McLaughlin joined the band, everything changed. The rhythms, the compositions, everything.

Jarrett hated the electric keyboard and never played one again after leaving Davis's band.

grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 17:35 (four months ago) Permalink

There's a great documentary called Miles Electric: A Different Kind Of Blue where a number of Miles' sidemen from his electric period are interviewed. Jarrett, as noted, whines about how much he hates electric keyboards. Hancock initially scoffs when Miles directs him to play a Rhodes -- "You want me to play that toy?" -- but then grows to love it. Corea jumps immediately into stacking ring modulators and Echoplexes on top of his Rhodes, so he apparently had no aversion to it.

why did jazz dudes hate the fender rhodes initially, was Miles really the first to bring it in?

I think it was just the usual "that's, like, selloutsville, daddy-o" stuff. Cannonball Adderley had a hit with "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy" which featured Joe Zawinul on electric piano -- a Wurlitzer rather than a Rhodes -- and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some level of professional jealousy/resentment.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 17:57 (four months ago) Permalink

Miles Electric: A Different Kind Of Blue where a number of Miles' sidemen from his electric period are interviewed. Jarrett, as noted, whines about how much he hates electric keyboards

yeah thx this is what I was thinking of

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 18:01 (four months ago) Permalink

Don't forget about all the Hammond organ-led jazz trios from the late '50s/early '60s on. Electric pianos were probably viewed by many as a combination of dinky/toylike and downmarket - not forward-looking music, but shit for drunks in bars to listen to.

grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 18:27 (four months ago) Permalink

It's the difference between an acoustic guitar and electric. Acoustic instruments are much more touch sensitive and there is much greater range in the sensitivity.

earlnash, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 19:20 (four months ago) Permalink

that is a very weird thing to argue about electric vs. acoustic guitar. I mean, electric guitars are more sensitive to touch by their very nature - they're amplified.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 19:22 (four months ago) Permalink

But it depends on the sound from the pickup and amp, not necessarily on the fingers on fretboard.

You do some big fast run on an electric guitar that has a real compressed signal, it's much easier to make all the notes run out clean. On an acoustic, that clarity is much more in players hands.

earlnash, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 19:27 (four months ago) Permalink


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