What is IDM?

HAHAHA Paul, your nicknames are the best.

I wasn't going to use this one when I thought of it, but then it got stuck in my head...

Integrated Data Management, as it turns out. So it is actually related to my job in MI.

So disappointed. I mean, I was gonna skip the Autechre seminar, but really wanted to know if they could squeeze me in for the Venetian Snares spectrographic workshop, you know?

Unfortunately it's just about boring Data Protection shit.

What is ILM?

TS: IDM vs ILM <-- not an ILX thread

We had an "ILM as IDM" thread, back in the mists of time.

I remember getting annoyed because someone tried to make me be The Katephex Twin. Ha ha. Um.

(Oh, how times have changed. This was before I decided that Drukqs wasn't actually the worst album in the history of forever.)

"How do you pronounce Nedechre?"

if ILM were IDM

So a number of folks -- including me -- had a crack at this with a new Pitchfork Top 50 list:

http://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/10011-the-50-best-idm-albums-of-all-time/

I did four of the entries -- Clicks + Cuts, Matmos's A Chance to Cut is a Chance to Cure, Kid606's Down With the Scene and Pole's 1.

Normally I would hate to be the guy that's criticizing a list for excluding something, but I cannot in good conscience support an IDM list that leaves off the first Telefon Tel Aviv album.

And Jlin is a weird inclusion, like if you're going to go there, that opens it up to M.E.S.H. and sd Laika etc etc

IIRC said Telefon Tel Aviv album was on the ballot so blame us, the collective voters. (I am pretty sure I included it in mine but can't specifically recall.)

a runoff list of all the nominated albums would be nice!

Fair enough (pun intended).

Speaking of 'idm', I was just thinking about this album this morning, I always forget the name and have to dig it up but it's beautiful listening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXw_dz1BRYY&list=PLDJsU_5F23c53SuzhGrHKh_9OLKhseDm2

It's pretty weird to see an "IDM" list where so many of the albums are not IDM but minimal or dub techno, even straight techno. I would never call Carl Craig or Isolée or bloody Drexciya IDM. That feels like broadening the genre definition to a point where it's meaningless.

imo defining "idm" as a genre was exclusionary and started out as people talking about "dance-derived music that's good for home listening" and eventually turned into "stuff to listen to on headphones in dark rooms that's good for posting on messageboards about"

if you think of Selected Ambient Works as a seminal album and the Artificial Intelligence comps as an entry point, things like that Carl Craig album fall right in there

It's pretty weird to see an "IDM" list where so many of the albums are not IDM but minimal or dub techno, even straight techno. I would never call Carl Craig or Isolée or bloody /Drexciya/ IDM. That feels like broadening the genre definition to a point where it's meaningless.

Cannot believe "intelligent dance music" has been broadened to meaninglessness

genre of exclusion

I get that there were the records that made people start calling things IDM, there were the ones made to be 'IDM' (or at least made after there was some vocabulary established), and there were the spiritual cousins and descendants. It seems a little weird to me include the latter on a list like this but whatevs.

why is it weird?

seems pretty straightforward to me that a genre-eclectic magazine would choose to publish a list based on the idea of "if you like aphex and autechre you'll probably like ..." rather than "here's 50 albums that sound like aphex and autechre"

That feels like broadening the genre definition to a point where it's meaningless.

this is also weird to me. what is the value of having tightly defined genres?

you get to snipe on the internet about how something isn't *really* idm

or be on a genre-defining listserv about it and complain a lot

I just would have done either a strict archival thing, or split it out to be able to be able to include more contemporary stuff. But nbd, it's just a list.

if I had to hazard a guess, they reached out to a pool of music writers, asked for albums to put on a ballot, then everyone voted on the list

so a fair number of people contributed with a narrow scope, and a handful contributed newer stuff?

Actually panel individual ballots writer massage editor votes tallied was emails discussion shortlist

I just would have done either a strict archival thing

right, ok, this i can see having some value, doing a history of IDM

of course simon reynolds would be one of the last people i would choose to lead that project

Am I the only one here who loved the list? It's not purist but was IDM really well defined as a genre? There's a major difference between, say, Autechre and Boards of Canada and Aphex Twin.

probably safe to say it was defined more by the labels releasing it and the attitude of the artists than the specifics of the sound

I thought it was a solid list

am kinda disappointed that no post-98 Autechre made it. once you get into their later work the early stuff seems like its just a run up to it.

Yeah, list is fine

Nice list shame about the title

NO MAX TUNDRA NO CREDIBILITY jk good write ups, Ned!

Max Tundra doesn't sound as IDM does it? It's like some progressive electronic zolo shit

he was on warp and had skittery beats what else do you want sheesh

pretty good list, glad to see clark - body riddle getting some credit, always felt like that one was underrated coming at the very very tail end of the genre's heyday

max tundra was on domino but released a single on warp /pedant

Max Tundra also out on Kid 606's Tigerbea6, and had an instrumental album before Pitchfork found out about him which is easiest to classify as IDM. Was definitely in the crew that included Kid606, DAT Politics, Blectum from Blechdom, and by extension, Kit Clayton, Sutekh, even Matmos

I enjoyed reading the list -- I don't think at the time I would have considered Kompakt type stuff (or minimal house at all) to be "IDM". IDM was always glitchier and wonkier to me

yeah I guess it's easy to make a case for that first album. in my opinion MBGATE and Parallax Error are better than most the albums on the list but they don't fit with anything on the top 10

I can't even think of any big names this is missing, so kudos on that. I would have went with the first Prefuse album tho.

And I guess I would rather have seen the Farmers Manual, Oval, Alvo Noto end of the spectrum represented instead of like making the case for JLin or w/e

So you guys are arguing whether some artist was a bit too wonky to be IDM and whether being on Warp qualifies him, but everyone disagrees with me when I point out that a straight-up Detroit techno album that was put out by motherfucking Tresor might not belong on the list?

tuomas you are a tresor

feel like richdork contributors are definitely cognizant that some of the entries do not fit the more classical definition of idm but willfully included some more diverse music

Would have loved to see Max Tundra on the list. Would love to see him in any list tbh... I guess I relate him more to weirdo synth pop than IDM but some of his songs would definitely fit with other artists on the genre... again that's the problem with IDM it's more related to certain labels like Warp than a particular sound.

NO MAX TUNDRA NO CREDIBILITY jk good write ups, Ned!

Thanks!

That top 10 made me smile so much

also now is as good a time as any to say that I think I've heard SAW maybe twice and couldn't tell you a damn thing about it

I'm still going to bat for the first Telefon Tel Aviv album as having aged the best out of more or less everything. You can tell what they were inspired by with the labored-over glitchiness, but setting it against half-time 808 beats was prescient (not to mention the melodies and general lushness of the record).

not a particularly great list, not a particularly bad one, would ordinarily be inclined to talk a bunch of shit out of principle but since they put urban tribe on it all is forgiven

I am glad a lot of bad things were omitted

No Confield OMG.