King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
I bought a King Crimson album tonight. Tower had them all in a 3 for £18 deal. I bought "Red" thinking it was by the 80s Crimson which has long intrigued me a bit but then it turned out it was by the proper scarey 70s Crimson. EEK! Anyway it sounded OK. What do you think of them?

Tom, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Can't believe they've not been discussed here before. I'm wild about the BEAT/DISCIPLINE/THREE OF A PERFECT pair era of the band (notably for Tony Levin's nimble Chapman stick thwacking). IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON rocks thoroughly, of course....."21st Century Schizoid Man"? Who could argue?

I've heard great things about RED, but I've never heard it. Possibly due to the stigma of John Wetton. Even though RED predated Asia by veritable eons, I cannot erase the crime.

Alex in NYC, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Red is the only one I know. The scary instrumental parts are great but when the voices come in they're extremely pallid and non- scary and the mood gets wrecked and I wonder why I'm bothering and I usually put on something else. Do they have any albums that are all instrumental?

Ian, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Red is my favourite of the earlier Crimson, because it's not too wacky. I know we've discussed Crimson on the board before, because we got into this discussion of early Crimson lyrics and how they bordered on the inane. Red is not quite so inane, lyrically, and the music is muscular and scary in places, without getting too overblown. Tom, next purchase should be Discipline, if you're intrigued by the 80s Crimson.

Sean Carruthers, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

More Crimso talk here.

Sean Carruthers, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Okay, here's a stretch of a question: did any of you out there catch VH-1's "100 Greatest Artists of Hard Rock"? Whell, amidst those 100, they featured a quick segment on Crimson, and showed some live footage of the band, although I'm not sure from which era. The line-up featured Wetton on vocals, doing almost a scat-styled lyric. It was very free- form sounding, but still quite cool. Being that their catalogue is a bit on the vast side (and I'm only really familiar with COURT OF...and the DISCIPLINE and beyond periods), can anyone tell me where that particular track can be found?

Alex in NYC, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I had "Thrak" about 5-6 years back and used to like it a lot. Have not listened to it for a long time. Bought "In the court fo King Crimson" last year. Liked it for some time but then got bored of it. Still like the a couple of songs on that album though.(21st century Schizoid man, The court of the crimson king).

Atul, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

'Red' is OK but overrated. It's so STATIC. Nothing moves, except for the title track it's as constricted as Fripp's bunghole. I actually prefer 'Larks Tongues'. 'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.

dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I quite like Islands, even though its made by the previous line up I can hear quite a lot of Larks in it. Some of the tracks on it are complete clunkers though - the lingering Sinfield / Tippet influence.

Red is ace, and has been discussed here before. The instrumental tracks are the ones that sound less dated - especially the title track and its 'devils interval' backstory.

But I think Wettons vocals on Starless and Red are lovely and I disagree that the placid quietness of them is just 'static' - there is a line on one of the tracks on Starless... 'My Home... was a place by the sea' which I just adore and I've never known why - but it kept popping up in my head when I had my Steve Erickson reading binge a couple of years ago and it has that same mesmeric Erickson quality of difference and strangeness but not different and not strange (ooh thats a hopeless description: Somebody save me here!).

There are three formulas involved in the Larks/Starless/Red tracks - and I think I like them all.

There are the dream-like songs I've already mentioned - all playful repeating echos of other things, and that strange wailing sound which I always imagine is one of them corrugated tubes you wave around your head - but presumably is just frippertronics (it turns up on evening star too). I always thought they were an influence on Nirvana on Nevermind's quiet moments but haven't seen it confirmed that Cobain knew this stuff.

Then there are the agressive ones - Red, the loud bits in Larks part one - the bit in Fracture where it suddenly changes speed. For a prog band they sure conjure with an magikal energy - that stuff sounds great - its a shame that neither the post rockers like Mogwai / Aeorgramme / etc or the Nu Metallers studied that stuff to avoid making their mistakes. Its not just a feature of that period of Crimson though, 21st C on the first album, the bit nicked from Mars on the second have that feel too.

The bits that are left form a third grouping, mainly instrumental and much more passive - but definately not static. The quiet bits of Larks pt1, Trio, Night Watch. Larks overtly references Vaughn Williams and thats a good suggestion of what's going on, Debussy and Satie too. But there is a lack of optimism in those tracks that doesn't sit well with the grace of those influences. They are bleak and hopeless feeling too.

Alexander Blair, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

LARKS' TONGUES and STARLESS AND BIBLE BLACK are both better, though "Starless" is oft-considered the all-in-all best thing they ever did (me, I think it's "Exiles" from Larks').

"Easy Money" has this (on the live versions, not the studio version, alas) great (for prog rock, mind you) bit of lyric:

"So I argued with the judge, But the bastard wouldn't budge, 'cause they caught me licking fudge, and they never told me once, you were a minor..."

Joe, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I only have In the Court of the Crimson King and it's classic, don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. The track "Red" is quite good too. Your next purchase should be Pawn Hearts by Van der Graaf Generator.

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Ignoring their ridiculously anal 'chops' - which I sort've admire - I've never heard a King Crimson rec. with tolerable singing on it. It's what puts me off a lot of prog, to be honest. Get 'Dart Drug' by Jamie Muir and Derek Bailey instead!

Andrew L, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Really? What do you find objectionable about the vocals on, say, "Epitaph?"

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Sundar they are horrible is what is objectionable!! Which LP is "Ladies of the Road" on? (It's on my best of promo tape... ) Anyway, it is the UGLIEST ROCK SONG EVER WRITTEN, sound and words (it's abt groupies), which is an impressive achievement. Wasn't RED K.Cobain's fave record? KC fascinate me I must say because they grate on me SO extremely: I can't dismiss em at all, because their effect is so exact.

mark s, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Mark - "Ladies" is on 'Islands'! It's the only track on the album where they sound awake, so you can imagine what the rest of it is like. ("Sailor's Tale" doesn't count, of course)

dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

As a teenager I liked the Belew era and hated the Lake era, but now it's opposite. I can't separate KC3 from the other PBS-special 80s 'arty crowd', belongs in 'American Psycho' along with Laurie Anderson, Basquiat, the Roberts Wilson and Mapplethorpe, all the other downtown yuppie shit. Get the first three Talking Heads albums or the middle three KC albums instead.

dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

dude just read what i said in the old thread
"UGH.. I hate the 80's trilogy. I think fripp really lost his magic then. My favortie period is the 73 Starless band. They were so fucking hard and funky. Then they got quiet like a whisper. Awesome stuff. "

chakli, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.

dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Red is a great album. I bought it for 4.99 at the HMV sale. It's true that the singing isn't great but it isn't horrible either and the instrumental parts are really fantastic. You can go back to them over and over again. Fripp is on song. It grows on you.

Mark- Apparently Red is KC's favourite album ever. He also loved the raincoats, having written some brief notes for the reissue of their excellent debut. Even though nirvana sucked he had good taste (though I think that he only said that to piss off the metal fans that bought his music).

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Lake's voice was quite good, though (per usual) a bit lofty, especially singing Sinfield's lofty lyrics. Still, at least he could sing back then. Wetton's voice was quite good, though has a 'smoky' quality to it that's an acquired taste. Belew is a bit piercing in the higher registers, but I think in the lower registers or when he's imitating Lennon or Orbison, it's okay.

Joe, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

By the way, Greg Lake and John Wetton are the Dick York and Dick Sargent of rock: discuss.

Joe, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Prog is taking over this message board for some reason. Anyway, fine by me. However, Joe, does that make Fripp Sherwood Schwartz? Wrong show! Aaron Spelling?

Classic by virtue of the mid 70s albums alone, though the 80s were at least interesting, with Discipline being a damn good album. I was never a huge fan of the early KC, and the 90s version hasn't knocked me out -- YET. I do look forward to Nuovo Metal, though I really wish Fripp would have stuck with the first ProjeKct (worst gimmick ever, the whole "Kc" thing needs to be stopped) band. Apparently Fripp couldn't live with himself putting out a studio record that was avant-noise, even though that's obviously one of things at which he excels.

dleone, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

re: Wetton and Asia - can't forgive him


I'd never heard Asia until last week (whilst ripping vinyl to cd for an acquaintance) and it was a truely awfull thing to have to put my house through. So I can understand why you might hate him because of this. But I've always liked his mid 70s stuff, most especially the 2 albums he did with Family: "Fearless" and "Bandstand".

However, his lyrics are, for the most part, very bad indeed - has anyone heard 'Same Time Next Week' from Phil Manzanera's "Diamond Head"? Very ugly.

philT, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I used to be a big KC fan and can find something to like about all their albums, but the only stuff I feel like listening to now is Red (because it's heavy and sometimes funky and has 'Starless'), the double live album from the 80s band (because it's like an 80s best of with great sound and because it's poppy and new wave enough that even my girlfriend can like it), and ThraK, which I've always had a soft spot for. I think it's a great blend of their 70s heaviness and 80s pop songs with, um, lots of drums.

Jordan, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

dominique wrote: However, Joe, does that make Fripp Sherwood Schwartz? Wrong show! Aaron Spelling?

Agnes Moorehead, obviously. :)

Joe, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

So who's Paul Lynde?

nickn, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

mark s, there is a truly eye-popping site discussing Sinfields lyrics here:. http://www.songsouponse a.com/Promenade/ if you want to delve even further into Islands its on chapters 16 and 17.

Ladies of the Road and Formetera Ladies are the clunkers I refered to above btw. Though I think Sinfields worst lyrics are on Still.

Alexander Blair, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i wuv the idea that KC were in fact FUNKY: even slimy-greasy purist chaki says so, tho i note they were carefully not mentioned on THIS THREAD however. What, does the word have two meanings after all?

mark s, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

And this is a surprise? ONLY two would be a surprise!

Josh, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Alexander wrote: "there is a truly eye-popping site discussing Sinfields lyrics here:. http://www.songsouponse a.com/Promenade/ if you want to delve even further into Islands its on chapters 16 and 17."

Truly unfathomable, I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. However, it explains much. There's a site where I help write reviews for prog rock albums, and we once received a snippy letter for dissing the Wake of Poseidon album (or at least, not being fanboy-ish enough towards it), and the person, opening up by claiming we had "less wit and culture than an ant" (yep) used much of the material found in the Wake of Poseidon chapter as their defense of the album and its depth. Maybe it was even The Keeper of the onyx-embolden'd-husking-jewelled-warthogs website himself! :)

Joe, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

four years pass...
Boz Burrell, RIP http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=165889

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 22 September 2006 22:32 (ten years ago) Permalink

four years pass...

Cue your golf swing.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Wow... Mind = blown.

An influential prophet from Denton, Texas (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:42 (five years ago) Permalink

Very cool! thx ned

an excellent source of vitamins and minerals (WmC), Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:43 (five years ago) Permalink

"that's some really wild stuff"

buzza, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:44 (five years ago) Permalink

In The Lounge of the Crimson King

tylerw, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:46 (five years ago) Permalink

More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.

Dave Q really killed it on this thread, huh? I like lots of KC but I hardly ever find myself playing them. When I do, it's either Larks' Tongues or Beat.

Clarke B., Wednesday, 27 July 2011 18:29 (five years ago) Permalink

I think Belew's a pretty terrible lyricist but that was kinda the point, right? The lyrics weren't supposed to stand out. It was all about the music at that point.

frogbs, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 18:31 (five years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Met this guy tonight who said he'd done tarot card readings with Adrian Belew, back in '83 or so

the story just got weirder from there

geeta, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 07:54 (five years ago) Permalink

four months pass...
six months pass...

Fripp speaks

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 4 August 2012 20:10 (four years ago) Permalink

excellent...wish it was longer

frogbs, Saturday, 4 August 2012 20:18 (four years ago) Permalink

2009 Crimson, with Porcupine Tree drummer as second drummer, was awesome live.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 4 August 2012 21:28 (four years ago) Permalink

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of Larks' Tongue In Aspic?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

EZ Snappin, Monday, 13 August 2012 19:48 (four years ago) Permalink

Just registered for DJM live site just so I could hear a sparse guide track for "Islands" the song. Boz sounds like he's singing into a cheap condenser mike, but otherwise it's quite lovely.

'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.
― dave q, Friday, February 15, 2002 7:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NO.

Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:19 (four years ago) Permalink

its kind of weird to imagine that King Crimson only played a fixed amount of concerts when they were active. it feels like they're able to just create more and more live bootleg material at will, even if it was phyiscally impossible for them to have played that many dates.

frogbs, Monday, 13 August 2012 20:20 (four years ago) Permalink

So many of them are pretty dodgy quality though, aren't they?

Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:21 (four years ago) Permalink

classic:

'released in three separate editions to satisfy the merely curious and the expectant collector'

j., Friday, 17 August 2012 14:31 (four years ago) Permalink

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of /Larks' Tongue In Aspic/?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916


Who ISN'T?

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 20 August 2012 03:26 (four years ago) Permalink

Rieflin is back according to latest Fripp diary, and they're keeping Jeremy Stacy so this will be an 8 member band going out in the summer (west coast!)

― akm

i knew moving to the west coast was a good idea

personally i hope they start adding "thousand finger man" to the setlist

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 21:56 (five months ago) Permalink

xp the fact that the majority of the setlist was written for one drummer does make it pretty interesting though. also both Rieflin and Stacy are multi-instrumentalists so there's a lot of potential there. Fripp is now talking about a "dual quartet" which is kinda awesome sounding.

frogbs, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:02 (five months ago) Permalink

Very intriguing. I thought the three drummer lineup was a bit overkill and that bill rieflin really didn't add that much. Four drummers, I can imagine a dueling band thing going on. They should let rieflin sing, he has a voice like David Sylvian.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:10 (five months ago) Permalink

xp the fact that the majority of the setlist was written for one drummer does make it pretty interesting though. also both Rieflin and Stacy are multi-instrumentalists so there's a lot of potential there. Fripp is now talking about a "dual quartet" which is kinda awesome sounding.

― frogbs

oh give it up bobby you're not going to re-record fucking "free jazz"

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:11 (five months ago) Permalink

I sure would like them to start doing improvs again

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:20 (five months ago) Permalink

They do improv, but mostly between song stuff. In fact, as talented as KC is and has always been, their improvisation has always been secondary, imo. That is, there are changes here and there, but having listening to several shows in, say, that Road to Red set, I've not noticed any huge shift from take to take. Fripp is such a control freak that he (and his compositions) keeps his band on a pretty tight leash. The ProjeKCs seemed to improvise a lot more.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:25 (five months ago) Permalink

I mean the jams that they end up calling improvs

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:28 (five months ago) Permalink

the interstitial stuff, like intros to Night Watch, Exiles, etc, never really counted as such IMO

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:28 (five months ago) Permalink

I liked what they did with the pieces they built around 'Siezure' & 'x-chayng-z' or whatever - that stuff ended up feeling very exciting. I'd enjoy seeing this group approach that sort of thing.

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:31 (five months ago) Permalink

When I saw them in 2004 they were basically a very loud chamber ensemble, precise, no improv. I think that can make it hard for music to enter the room, as Fripp puts it.

aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:34 (five months ago) Permalink

I always wondered about that. Some of the "improvs" on The Great Deceiver and Heavy ConstruKction sets seem so structured that there's no way they just pulled them out of thin air. I can see something like "Trio" coming together since there isn't a whole lot of a tune there, but some of the rest, you at least get the sense they knew where it was starting or what it was leading to. Would be cool to see more jamming out of this incarnation of the band, I actually think the "Easy Money" on Radical Action is the best version I've ever heard, mostly because of the freeform middle section.

frogbs, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:34 (five months ago) Permalink

that was what i loved most about the construction of light tour - they started doing standalone "blows" again, which give or take a couple of late '81/early '82 oddities, they hadn't really done since '74. the whole "thrakattak" approach they took, man, it just didn't work, because the music had no space to breathe.

how structured were the '73-'74 "blows"? yeah, some. funny that you mention trio, frogbs, as that was a kind of regular thing they did- no main melody, mind, but there are a lot of improvs by that band that sound like "trio". certainly they had some set pieces- the "fracture" melody started out in improv pieces, and that's not really the sort of thing one just makes up on the spot- but overall they were freer than one might imagine.

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 22:53 (five months ago) Permalink

oh god, Thrakattak - don't think I could stand to listen to that one again. as I recall it the issue wasn't that you had 6 members of the band improvising all at once, but rather that most of the members seemed too afraid to do anything! yes, that is what pure improvisation can sound like.

I always thought "Fracture" was a take off on "Suite No 1" from the Giles, Giles, and Fripp days. obviously Fripp's technique improved a lot over the years but when I first heard that it sounded like there was a connection there.

frogbs, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 23:03 (five months ago) Permalink

oh god, Thrakattak - don't think I could stand to listen to that one again. as I recall it the issue wasn't that you had 6 members of the band improvising all at once, but rather that most of the members seemed too afraid to do anything! yes, that is what pure improvisation can sound like.

I always thought "Fracture" was a take off on "Suite No 1" from the Giles, Giles, and Fripp days. obviously Fripp's technique improved a lot over the years but when I first heard that it sounded like there was a connection there.

― frogbs

"suite no. 1" sounds like a cut-rate "flight of the bumblebee" to me. "fracture" not so much.

the issue with thrakattak, i would say, as that they just edited together thirty separate recordings of the middle two minutes of a six minute song. that's just not going to sound good.

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 23:09 (five months ago) Permalink

if i may, goddamn I love this band and anytime this thread revives it makes me happy

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 23:10 (five months ago) Permalink

hmmm rushomancy I think you're right. but "Fracture" sounds a little like that to my ears too.

for the record I thought the "Schizoid Men" disc on Ladies of the Road worked alright - or at least would have had the sound quality been somewhat passable.

frogbs, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 23:13 (five months ago) Permalink

Schizoid Men disc is good fun.

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 23:21 (five months ago) Permalink

it's nice enough but at a certain point i start feeling like i'm listening to free bird.

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 23:34 (five months ago) Permalink

This thread and the news that Rieflin is back with them as they head back to the States has me breaking out Heavy ConstruKction and the ProjeKct box again. They're both such a nice contrast to the new band – woolly abstract (abstraKct) futurism vs. suits and ties woodwind classiness.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 5 January 2017 22:28 (five months ago) Permalink

how structured were the '73-'74 "blows"? yeah, some. funny that you mention trio, frogbs, as that was a kind of regular thing they did- no main melody, mind, but there are a lot of improvs by that band that sound like "trio".

There is at least one "improv" on the Starless box that is not Copenhagen (possibly Italy) in which they play "Trio" almost note for note. Frankly, given the Bruford story and its rep for being completely improvised, I was a little stunned.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 5 January 2017 22:31 (five months ago) Permalink

it's nice enough but at a certain point i start feeling like i'm listening to free bird.

Ironically, for a jammy band, Skynyrd jams were super tight and composed. Three guitars, lotta soloing, gotta do some planning.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 January 2017 23:03 (five months ago) Permalink

okay, allmans then?

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Friday, 6 January 2017 01:31 (five months ago) Permalink

There is at least one "improv" on the /Starless/ box that is not Copenhagen (possibly Italy) in which they play "Trio" almost note for note. Frankly, given the Bruford story and its rep for being completely improvised, I was a little stunned.

Ok, it's actually Mainz in March of 1974 (and of course I meant Amsterdam not Copenhagen from the previous November). So it appears they were trying to recreate "Trio" after it was improvised? Or did it appear before the 1973 Concertgebouw show as well?

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 7 January 2017 14:03 (five months ago) Permalink

btw does anyone have the slow music project 'live at the croc' cd ripped (or any of/all of the digital live releases)?

akm, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 21:21 (five months ago) Permalink

as it is these sets kinda feel like they're (unintentionally) writing Belew out of the band's history

― frogbs, Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:09 AM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

as a big Discipline / Beat / ToaPP fan, I've noticed this too. But if I were Belew I'd take the omission of this period as a compliment. Jakko may be very good at "doing" Wetton, but it'd be pretty tough to tackle Belew's singular approach to either guitar or vocals imo. Like him or not, guy is one of a kind

Wanna buy this set but the stuff I have up on eBay right now isn't selling so, err, can't justify it. Coveting it, though.

Wimmels, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 22:57 (five months ago) Permalink

Also Belew's period in King Crimson was both insanely long and well documented -- the old Crimson songs being revisited are pieces Fripp actively avoided performing because of nasty litigation which he eventually won.

Three Word Username, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 11:57 (five months ago) Permalink

Do you have a source for that last claim? I wasn't aware that litigation could be a bar to live performances of songs.

heaven parker (anagram), Wednesday, 11 January 2017 12:21 (five months ago) Permalink

See also, John Fogerty refusing to play CCR during the copyright lawsuit.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 12:34 (five months ago) Permalink

I'm not sure I've ever made it all the way through the Radical Action set, but yesterday I listen to its version of Schizoid Man and really hated it.

Was it mentioned above that the four drummer formation is allegedly touring the us this year?

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 12:37 (five months ago) Permalink

It wasn't a legal bar -- Fripp was boycotting his own stuff because he didn't want Sinfield or the publishers to get paid. Look at any interview with him from the 90s or 00s, really.

Three Word Username, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 12:59 (five months ago) Permalink

Interesting, I didn't know that. But does that mean that Sinfield and the publishers would have been paid every time Fripp performed one of the old songs? Or is it that live performances of them would stimulate album sales?

heaven parker (anagram), Wednesday, 11 January 2017 13:02 (five months ago) Permalink

Considering he's re-released the entire catalogue several times I don't think it's the latter. The former doesn't really make sense either - do publishers really get royalties from live performances during a tour? Thought it was more Fripp's "always look forward" attitude, plus Belew wasn't so good at imitating the old singers

frogbs, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 14:22 (five months ago) Permalink

As I said, check the interviews. The Fripp-approved reissues started when the cases started settling (there were plenty of reissues with no Fripp involvement), and I think Fripp and Sinfield worked out their stuff in the 90s.

Three Word Username, Wednesday, 11 January 2017 20:04 (five months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

Maybe it's aging related chemical changes in the brain, but I used to like KC and now I find them kind of awful.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 7 May 2017 01:18 (one month ago) Permalink

i don't know, that's odd. typically I've found it's the other way. In fact, I've grown to appreciate KC albums I didn't like initially (Islands, Lizard); although i have also grown to dislike some of the later ones even more than I originally did (construction, power to believe)

akm, Sunday, 7 May 2017 18:11 (one month ago) Permalink

"Was it mentioned above that the four drummer formation is allegedly touring the us this year?"

it's actually still just 3 drummers, Rieflin is playing keyboards and sounds

akm, Sunday, 7 May 2017 18:12 (one month ago) Permalink

Yeah, I totally got more into KC with age.

My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, 7 May 2017 18:15 (one month ago) Permalink

I originally only liked the '72-74 lineup(s); now I like everything until that point. The Belew-era stuff and everything after can still fuck off, though.

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 7 May 2017 18:20 (one month ago) Permalink

i don't get people's reluctance to like the 80's albums. those are, all three, awesome records.

akm, Sunday, 7 May 2017 21:13 (one month ago) Permalink

I love that period! I might play those as often as any of the others.

My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, 7 May 2017 21:15 (one month ago) Permalink

The Discipline era of KC does have a very different sound than the earlier incarnation. Few weeks back I put together a playlist couple of those records up with some Talking Heads, early 80s Bowie, Roxy Music, Iggy and The Police and it all fit together really well in that context.

earlnash, Sunday, 7 May 2017 22:31 (one month ago) Permalink

we've discussed this before but Kate Bush's The Dreaming, Peter Gabriel's 3/4(Security), 80's Roxy, Talking Head's FEar of Music/Remain in Light, Bowie's late 70's output and 80's Crimson are certainly of an ilk that is more 'art rock' than 'progressive rock'; this period (from about 77-84) certainly encompasses some of my favorite albums of all time.

akm, Sunday, 7 May 2017 22:40 (one month ago) Permalink

I loved 81-84 Crim then and still like them now, but my favorite Fripp artifact from those years is the League of Gentlemen.

20-lol pileup (WilliamC), Sunday, 7 May 2017 23:22 (one month ago) Permalink

yeah that's good too. an artifact of his time in NYC (like 80's crim is really), along with his Heads work and the song he did with Blondie.

akm, Sunday, 7 May 2017 23:41 (one month ago) Permalink

I like to think of Fripp cutting off all his hair and shaving at the end of the 70's and moving to NYC just as punk and no wave are getting into full swing.

akm, Sunday, 7 May 2017 23:42 (one month ago) Permalink

"Uh, can I play you, um, some of the new things I've been doing that I think could be commercial?"

doug watson, Monday, 8 May 2017 01:13 (one month ago) Permalink

Exposure FTW here

doug watson, Monday, 8 May 2017 01:13 (one month ago) Permalink

Him and Eno both hit NYC at just the right time.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 May 2017 03:30 (one month ago) Permalink

one month passes...

This snuck past me -- the Radical Action live album and Heroes EP have been put up on Spotify. Discovered via an interview with David Singleton here -- http://www.makeweirdmusic.com/discover/david-singleton/

Mr. Crackpots (WilliamC), Saturday, 17 June 2017 02:34 (one week ago) Permalink

seeing them tomorrow night in oakland- psyched

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 17 June 2017 02:55 (one week ago) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.