King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

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I bought a King Crimson album tonight. Tower had them all in a 3 for £18 deal. I bought "Red" thinking it was by the 80s Crimson which has long intrigued me a bit but then it turned out it was by the proper scarey 70s Crimson. EEK! Anyway it sounded OK. What do you think of them?

Tom, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Can't believe they've not been discussed here before. I'm wild about the BEAT/DISCIPLINE/THREE OF A PERFECT pair era of the band (notably for Tony Levin's nimble Chapman stick thwacking). IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON rocks thoroughly, of course....."21st Century Schizoid Man"? Who could argue?

I've heard great things about RED, but I've never heard it. Possibly due to the stigma of John Wetton. Even though RED predated Asia by veritable eons, I cannot erase the crime.

Alex in NYC, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Red is the only one I know. The scary instrumental parts are great but when the voices come in they're extremely pallid and non- scary and the mood gets wrecked and I wonder why I'm bothering and I usually put on something else. Do they have any albums that are all instrumental?

Ian, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Red is my favourite of the earlier Crimson, because it's not too wacky. I know we've discussed Crimson on the board before, because we got into this discussion of early Crimson lyrics and how they bordered on the inane. Red is not quite so inane, lyrically, and the music is muscular and scary in places, without getting too overblown. Tom, next purchase should be Discipline, if you're intrigued by the 80s Crimson.

Sean Carruthers, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

More Crimso talk here.

Sean Carruthers, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Okay, here's a stretch of a question: did any of you out there catch VH-1's "100 Greatest Artists of Hard Rock"? Whell, amidst those 100, they featured a quick segment on Crimson, and showed some live footage of the band, although I'm not sure from which era. The line-up featured Wetton on vocals, doing almost a scat-styled lyric. It was very free- form sounding, but still quite cool. Being that their catalogue is a bit on the vast side (and I'm only really familiar with COURT OF...and the DISCIPLINE and beyond periods), can anyone tell me where that particular track can be found?

Alex in NYC, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I had "Thrak" about 5-6 years back and used to like it a lot. Have not listened to it for a long time. Bought "In the court fo King Crimson" last year. Liked it for some time but then got bored of it. Still like the a couple of songs on that album though.(21st century Schizoid man, The court of the crimson king).

Atul, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

'Red' is OK but overrated. It's so STATIC. Nothing moves, except for the title track it's as constricted as Fripp's bunghole. I actually prefer 'Larks Tongues'. 'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.

dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I quite like Islands, even though its made by the previous line up I can hear quite a lot of Larks in it. Some of the tracks on it are complete clunkers though - the lingering Sinfield / Tippet influence.

Red is ace, and has been discussed here before. The instrumental tracks are the ones that sound less dated - especially the title track and its 'devils interval' backstory.

But I think Wettons vocals on Starless and Red are lovely and I disagree that the placid quietness of them is just 'static' - there is a line on one of the tracks on Starless... 'My Home... was a place by the sea' which I just adore and I've never known why - but it kept popping up in my head when I had my Steve Erickson reading binge a couple of years ago and it has that same mesmeric Erickson quality of difference and strangeness but not different and not strange (ooh thats a hopeless description: Somebody save me here!).

There are three formulas involved in the Larks/Starless/Red tracks - and I think I like them all.

There are the dream-like songs I've already mentioned - all playful repeating echos of other things, and that strange wailing sound which I always imagine is one of them corrugated tubes you wave around your head - but presumably is just frippertronics (it turns up on evening star too). I always thought they were an influence on Nirvana on Nevermind's quiet moments but haven't seen it confirmed that Cobain knew this stuff.

Then there are the agressive ones - Red, the loud bits in Larks part one - the bit in Fracture where it suddenly changes speed. For a prog band they sure conjure with an magikal energy - that stuff sounds great - its a shame that neither the post rockers like Mogwai / Aeorgramme / etc or the Nu Metallers studied that stuff to avoid making their mistakes. Its not just a feature of that period of Crimson though, 21st C on the first album, the bit nicked from Mars on the second have that feel too.

The bits that are left form a third grouping, mainly instrumental and much more passive - but definately not static. The quiet bits of Larks pt1, Trio, Night Watch. Larks overtly references Vaughn Williams and thats a good suggestion of what's going on, Debussy and Satie too. But there is a lack of optimism in those tracks that doesn't sit well with the grace of those influences. They are bleak and hopeless feeling too.

Alexander Blair, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

LARKS' TONGUES and STARLESS AND BIBLE BLACK are both better, though "Starless" is oft-considered the all-in-all best thing they ever did (me, I think it's "Exiles" from Larks').

"Easy Money" has this (on the live versions, not the studio version, alas) great (for prog rock, mind you) bit of lyric:

"So I argued with the judge, But the bastard wouldn't budge, 'cause they caught me licking fudge, and they never told me once, you were a minor..."

Joe, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I only have In the Court of the Crimson King and it's classic, don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. The track "Red" is quite good too. Your next purchase should be Pawn Hearts by Van der Graaf Generator.

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Ignoring their ridiculously anal 'chops' - which I sort've admire - I've never heard a King Crimson rec. with tolerable singing on it. It's what puts me off a lot of prog, to be honest. Get 'Dart Drug' by Jamie Muir and Derek Bailey instead!

Andrew L, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Really? What do you find objectionable about the vocals on, say, "Epitaph?"

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Sundar they are horrible is what is objectionable!! Which LP is "Ladies of the Road" on? (It's on my best of promo tape... ) Anyway, it is the UGLIEST ROCK SONG EVER WRITTEN, sound and words (it's abt groupies), which is an impressive achievement. Wasn't RED K.Cobain's fave record? KC fascinate me I must say because they grate on me SO extremely: I can't dismiss em at all, because their effect is so exact.

mark s, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Mark - "Ladies" is on 'Islands'! It's the only track on the album where they sound awake, so you can imagine what the rest of it is like. ("Sailor's Tale" doesn't count, of course)

dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

As a teenager I liked the Belew era and hated the Lake era, but now it's opposite. I can't separate KC3 from the other PBS-special 80s 'arty crowd', belongs in 'American Psycho' along with Laurie Anderson, Basquiat, the Roberts Wilson and Mapplethorpe, all the other downtown yuppie shit. Get the first three Talking Heads albums or the middle three KC albums instead.

dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

dude just read what i said in the old thread
"UGH.. I hate the 80's trilogy. I think fripp really lost his magic then. My favortie period is the 73 Starless band. They were so fucking hard and funky. Then they got quiet like a whisper. Awesome stuff. "

chakli, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.

dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Red is a great album. I bought it for 4.99 at the HMV sale. It's true that the singing isn't great but it isn't horrible either and the instrumental parts are really fantastic. You can go back to them over and over again. Fripp is on song. It grows on you.

Mark- Apparently Red is KC's favourite album ever. He also loved the raincoats, having written some brief notes for the reissue of their excellent debut. Even though nirvana sucked he had good taste (though I think that he only said that to piss off the metal fans that bought his music).

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Lake's voice was quite good, though (per usual) a bit lofty, especially singing Sinfield's lofty lyrics. Still, at least he could sing back then. Wetton's voice was quite good, though has a 'smoky' quality to it that's an acquired taste. Belew is a bit piercing in the higher registers, but I think in the lower registers or when he's imitating Lennon or Orbison, it's okay.

Joe, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

By the way, Greg Lake and John Wetton are the Dick York and Dick Sargent of rock: discuss.

Joe, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Prog is taking over this message board for some reason. Anyway, fine by me. However, Joe, does that make Fripp Sherwood Schwartz? Wrong show! Aaron Spelling?

Classic by virtue of the mid 70s albums alone, though the 80s were at least interesting, with Discipline being a damn good album. I was never a huge fan of the early KC, and the 90s version hasn't knocked me out -- YET. I do look forward to Nuovo Metal, though I really wish Fripp would have stuck with the first ProjeKct (worst gimmick ever, the whole "Kc" thing needs to be stopped) band. Apparently Fripp couldn't live with himself putting out a studio record that was avant-noise, even though that's obviously one of things at which he excels.

dleone, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

re: Wetton and Asia - can't forgive him


I'd never heard Asia until last week (whilst ripping vinyl to cd for an acquaintance) and it was a truely awfull thing to have to put my house through. So I can understand why you might hate him because of this. But I've always liked his mid 70s stuff, most especially the 2 albums he did with Family: "Fearless" and "Bandstand".

However, his lyrics are, for the most part, very bad indeed - has anyone heard 'Same Time Next Week' from Phil Manzanera's "Diamond Head"? Very ugly.

philT, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I used to be a big KC fan and can find something to like about all their albums, but the only stuff I feel like listening to now is Red (because it's heavy and sometimes funky and has 'Starless'), the double live album from the 80s band (because it's like an 80s best of with great sound and because it's poppy and new wave enough that even my girlfriend can like it), and ThraK, which I've always had a soft spot for. I think it's a great blend of their 70s heaviness and 80s pop songs with, um, lots of drums.

Jordan, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

dominique wrote: However, Joe, does that make Fripp Sherwood Schwartz? Wrong show! Aaron Spelling?

Agnes Moorehead, obviously. :)

Joe, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

So who's Paul Lynde?

nickn, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

mark s, there is a truly eye-popping site discussing Sinfields lyrics here:. http://www.songsouponse a.com/Promenade/ if you want to delve even further into Islands its on chapters 16 and 17.

Ladies of the Road and Formetera Ladies are the clunkers I refered to above btw. Though I think Sinfields worst lyrics are on Still.

Alexander Blair, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i wuv the idea that KC were in fact FUNKY: even slimy-greasy purist chaki says so, tho i note they were carefully not mentioned on THIS THREAD however. What, does the word have two meanings after all?

mark s, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

And this is a surprise? ONLY two would be a surprise!

Josh, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Alexander wrote: "there is a truly eye-popping site discussing Sinfields lyrics here:. http://www.songsouponse a.com/Promenade/ if you want to delve even further into Islands its on chapters 16 and 17."

Truly unfathomable, I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. However, it explains much. There's a site where I help write reviews for prog rock albums, and we once received a snippy letter for dissing the Wake of Poseidon album (or at least, not being fanboy-ish enough towards it), and the person, opening up by claiming we had "less wit and culture than an ant" (yep) used much of the material found in the Wake of Poseidon chapter as their defense of the album and its depth. Maybe it was even The Keeper of the onyx-embolden'd-husking-jewelled-warthogs website himself! :)

Joe, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

four years pass...
Boz Burrell, RIP http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=165889

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 22 September 2006 22:32 (eleven years ago) Permalink

four years pass...

Cue your golf swing.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:32 (six years ago) Permalink

Wow... Mind = blown.

An influential prophet from Denton, Texas (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:42 (six years ago) Permalink

Very cool! thx ned

an excellent source of vitamins and minerals (WmC), Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:43 (six years ago) Permalink

"that's some really wild stuff"

buzza, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:44 (six years ago) Permalink

In The Lounge of the Crimson King

tylerw, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:46 (six years ago) Permalink

More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.

Dave Q really killed it on this thread, huh? I like lots of KC but I hardly ever find myself playing them. When I do, it's either Larks' Tongues or Beat.

Clarke B., Wednesday, 27 July 2011 18:29 (six years ago) Permalink

I think Belew's a pretty terrible lyricist but that was kinda the point, right? The lyrics weren't supposed to stand out. It was all about the music at that point.

frogbs, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 18:31 (six years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Met this guy tonight who said he'd done tarot card readings with Adrian Belew, back in '83 or so

the story just got weirder from there

geeta, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 07:54 (six years ago) Permalink

four months pass...
six months pass...

Fripp speaks

Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 4 August 2012 20:10 (five years ago) Permalink

excellent...wish it was longer

frogbs, Saturday, 4 August 2012 20:18 (five years ago) Permalink

2009 Crimson, with Porcupine Tree drummer as second drummer, was awesome live.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 4 August 2012 21:28 (five years ago) Permalink

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of Larks' Tongue In Aspic?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916

EZ Snappin, Monday, 13 August 2012 19:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Just registered for DJM live site just so I could hear a sparse guide track for "Islands" the song. Boz sounds like he's singing into a cheap condenser mike, but otherwise it's quite lovely.

'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.
― dave q, Friday, February 15, 2002 7:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NO.

Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:19 (five years ago) Permalink

its kind of weird to imagine that King Crimson only played a fixed amount of concerts when they were active. it feels like they're able to just create more and more live bootleg material at will, even if it was phyiscally impossible for them to have played that many dates.

frogbs, Monday, 13 August 2012 20:20 (five years ago) Permalink

So many of them are pretty dodgy quality though, aren't they?

Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:21 (five years ago) Permalink

classic:

'released in three separate editions to satisfy the merely curious and the expectant collector'

j., Friday, 17 August 2012 14:31 (five years ago) Permalink

so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of /Larks' Tongue In Aspic/?

http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916


Who ISN'T?

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 20 August 2012 03:26 (five years ago) Permalink

fripp is such a fasincatingly terrible writer

mark s, Saturday, 26 August 2017 14:12 (three months ago) Permalink

Adrian’s concern prompted a telephone conversation between Adrian, Martha Belew, Adrian’s de facto manager, in Mount Juliet and David Singleton, King Crimson manager / minister, in KC’s Denver Hotel-Quite-Acceptable on June 23rd. 2017 (nominally a day off).

Passive aggressive much?

Anyway, Fripp is a dick but he has a point. How come KC can't play stuff that Belew worked on, but Belew can play KC stuff that Fripp co-wrote? Regardless, sounds like Belew quitting was more acrimonious than it was initially made out to be, which is clearly coloring everything that has come after.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 14:37 (three months ago) Permalink

seems like, whether bob has the moral and legal right to play that music, Bob and Ade agreed that he wouldn't. That should be the end of it, and Bob doesn't want to say why he didn't honor it.

veronica moser, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:07 (three months ago) Permalink

my friend interviewed adrian and Stewart C. the other day re: the thus far not great sounding new band (I damn sure am going to go see Adrian and Stewart play on the same stage), and Stewart did not let Ade get a word in edgewise, so they didn't discuss the matter with Bob.

I saw KC like 10 times btwn 1995-2003, and am excited to see 'em again in Nov for the first time since then, even if I think Jakko is pretty suck-ass and, like JiC said awhile ago, is like "OMG OMG I'm in my favorite band" and is tricking Bob into playing shitty Lizard and Islands material (but not "a Sailor's Tale"?).

veronica moser, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:15 (three months ago) Permalink

It's hard to tell who to believe, especially now that we know the split was somewhat acrimonious. Sounds almost like Belew made demands and, when he didn't get them, he quit, so Fripp figured (disingenuously?) any verbal agreement was null?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:18 (three months ago) Permalink

The telephone conversation between Adrian and myself (September 9th. 2013), which ended with Adrian believing us to have an agreement, was more monologue than dialogue: dudgeon was high, grapes were sour. Adrian made an opening statement, followed by three demands, and a final declaration (that Adrian was not prepared to be The Eighth Man, and was quitting the band).

May contain peanuts, tree nuts, soy, wheat, pits or pit fragments. (WilliamC), Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:26 (three months ago) Permalink

which is it: ade left cuz he didn't want to be the eighth man (by which this must mean that he did not want to be deemphasized?) or bob said "you're not right for this rendition of KC."

veronica moser, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:34 (three months ago) Permalink

initially the latter seemed accurate, but I think Fripp was being cagey. Adrian was not a good match for the band, because he did not want to be the 8th man.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:46 (three months ago) Permalink

it really seems weird that at this stage, with this many players, Fripp is suddenly claiming to be splitting everything equally.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:46 (three months ago) Permalink

??? When has he not?

May contain peanuts, tree nuts, soy, wheat, pits or pit fragments. (WilliamC), Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:58 (three months ago) Permalink

has he always claimed that?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 15:59 (three months ago) Permalink

"ade left cuz he didn't want to be the eighth man (by which this must mean that he did not want to be deemphasized?) "

it's money; adrian wanted everyone but him and fripp to be paid as sidemen. fripp also says in there that he demanded this in 82, and again several years ago. I'm surprised that Levin and Mastoletto play with him on the side (they do the Crimson Project thing once or twice a year) given all of that.

akm, Saturday, 26 August 2017 16:46 (three months ago) Permalink

It's always money. But then, this I imagine is KCs longest, most lucrative tour in forever, so more money.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 August 2017 16:57 (three months ago) Permalink

another thing: I don't think this tour would be doing as well as it is with adrian. people have had 20/30 years of adrian KC, this is different and providing something people have really wanted to hear for a long time.

akm, Saturday, 26 August 2017 17:03 (three months ago) Permalink

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here

https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

akm, Sunday, 27 August 2017 03:06 (three months ago) Permalink

I'm a fan of all King Crimson line-ups and have an unusual favourite in Islands - which is one of my all-time favourite albums-, Lizard comes second for me.
So I'm really happy to see Fripp revisiting those songs. I've seen the current KC incarnation live a couple of years ago and loved it, obviously especially Sailor's Tale and The Letters.
Looking at recent setlist I see that they now also started playing the title track (also Lizard's title track and Cirkus). I really want to see them again now!

It's a shame that things are weird with Adrian now, though. He's done amazing work in the band and has been a key player for a long time. But at least he does admit still having some love for Fripp in that interview.

Valentijn, Monday, 28 August 2017 09:15 (three months ago) Permalink

"Singer/guitarist who has failed to deliver upon the tremendous promise of a past project starts making crazy demands on present and future plans for that past project" is a dynamic I am way familiar with and a tale as old as time, and passive-aggressive or not, I am leaning toward Fripp's side here.

Three Word Username, Monday, 28 August 2017 10:03 (three months ago) Permalink

(The above was a secret message to old school emo fans who know.)

Three Word Username, Monday, 28 August 2017 10:05 (three months ago) Permalink

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here

https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

so which is it, was Belew just unceremoniously sacked, or was he unwilling to be the 8th man on stage? because I've heard it both ways.

Fripp is kinda oafish about this as always but whatever, it *is* his band and besides, kinda lame of Adrian to insist that they don't play his stuff onstage, when his set consists of a bunch of 80's KC material. I mean who cares.

frogbs, Monday, 28 August 2017 13:49 (three months ago) Permalink

Sounds like both. Belew and Fripp had a conversation, Fripp asked Belew if he wanted to be involved, Belew said something like yeah, but not as a sideman, since I wrote a lot of our stuff, so if I have to be a sideman I'd just as soon not do it and please don't play those songs. No way to know (though at this rate we might find out), but it sounds like in Belew's mind (and there is no way to know the tone of the conversation) that he explained himself. And then basically Fripp called his bluff and said, OK, Adrian and Fripp are not working together in this incarnation. To which Belew no doubt thought, fine, be that way, so I guess that means he's not playing my stuff. Which KC didn't - the first couple of legs. But now that stuff is sneaking in, and Below probably feels doubly betrayed. Like, Fripp can do whatever he wants, but it does sound like he maybe broke a friendly agreement, which makes things less friendly. Which is sort of ironic, since Fripp has been a squeaky wheel about contracts and rights and stuff like that for decades.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 28 August 2017 14:01 (three months ago) Permalink

after seeing them on the first Elements tour, I thought Neurotica would be well suited to the way they were doing the songs, so I was glad to hear it. I haven't heard the new take on Indiscipline, but it strikes me as a weird choice. I guess if we hear Mel Collins tooting out 'babble, burble, brouhaha' then it's really a middle finger to Ade.

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 28 August 2017 14:38 (three months ago) Permalink

"Fripp asked Belew if he wanted to be involved"

actually, no, Fripp told him this KC wasn't for him, but he could remain as the '8th man' ie: in waiting for another iteration to come along, as Tony did at some point.

akm, Monday, 28 August 2017 15:33 (three months ago) Permalink

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here
https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

It's a shame that things are weird with Adrian now, though. He's done amazing work in the band and has been a key player for a long time. But at least he does admit still having some love for Fripp in that interview.

passive-aggressive or not, I am leaning toward Fripp's side here.

I generally agree w all of this and won't repeat what others have said here. It's a bummer that these two are having these problems so publicly. Perhaps inevitable given that it sounds like Belew and Fripp have had some of these issues going on 30 years. But for instance, Fripp actually crashes in the basement of Belew's house/studio when they are working together, recording or preparing for a tour. They are very close, which I think made it particularly hard on Belew to be told he wouldn't be a featured member of the current lineup.

I will say: you do almost get the sense, however, that Belew doesn't quite understand (or perhaps Fripp didn't really tell him) why he wouldn't have been right for singing songs from Lizard, etc. It's almost like Belew was like, "Ok, if I'm not right to sing *your* songs, you won't sing any of *mine.*" And, of course, that doesn't quite add up, as Fripp was present for the creation of all these songs -- and Belew wasn't (IIRC, Fripp didn't have a co-write on "ItCock").

At any rate, I have been going through a huge ProjeKcts and 'Aughts-era KC phase of late and am really looking forward to the fall tour. But you hope they work something out. Or at least, as Singleton suggested, they stop negotiating all this via social media.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 31 August 2017 19:21 (three months ago) Permalink

I can't believe 2 old guys would behave this way

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 31 August 2017 20:43 (three months ago) Permalink

Yeah, but they're *our* old guys.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:42 (three months ago) Permalink

remember when Fripp said THRAK was an album about “mature men who still get erections”? Maybe they're just a bit testy

Dominique, Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:44 (three months ago) Permalink

Fripp just posted this on FB:

Have just toasted Brother Ade at a distance with a Slinky Toes' Monster Margarita. There are no current plans for Adrian to come out with the current formation; but in Crimson's strange history there is a tendency for things to come around. So, Adrian has rejoined the larger family - hooray! - and doors to the future are open. So, no plans, but who knows what the future holds?

Right now, I'm looking forward to Gizmodrome and getting a few more guitar lessons...

Someone else has suggested that Belew may well be on board for 50th anniversary tour dates in 2019. As a confirmed Belew skeptic, I'm glad I saw the show I saw.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 3 September 2017 21:02 (three months ago) Permalink

They'd have enough members for 2 crims to do 2 shows simultaneously side by side

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 3 September 2017 21:04 (three months ago) Permalink

could go the Yes route - Fripp, Ade, and Pat (FAP) as Crim-classic, then a bunch of satellite members as King Crimson official

frogbs, Sunday, 3 September 2017 21:06 (three months ago) Permalink

they need another horn player now

Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 4 September 2017 21:28 (three months ago) Permalink

Not gonna lie: that post (and what Ade says amidst the comments) makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. These two dorks are just two goddamned good at what they do together to be all resentful of each other. 🤗

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 6 September 2017 02:48 (three months ago) Permalink

Man, DGM just dropped this today:

Sailors’ Tale (1970 - 1972)

21 CDs of studio & live material from 1970/2, 4 BD discs of studio/live material (audio), 2 DVDs of live material (audio),
12” box with booklet & memorabilia, bonus downloadable concert

The complete 1970-72 King Crimson boxed set: 21CDS/4Blu-Rays/2DVD – all audio.
3CDs feature Steven Wilson & Robert Fripp stereo mixes of In The Wake Of Poseidon (1970), Lizard (1970) & Islands (1971) + additional tracks.
6CDs feature the Islands line-ups early concerts from Germany (new to CD) & the UK (1971).
9CDs feature live recordings (several new to CD and/or previously unreleased in any format) from the 1972 US tour, including a new stereo mix of Summit Studios & an expanded Earthbound.
3CDs feature auditions for the Islands band & two further, as yet, unidentified concerts from 1972 (all previously unreleased)
3 Blu-Ray discs contain the main studio albums in 5.1 Surround Sound & recent stereo editions mixed by Steven Wilson & Robert Fripp + 30th anniversary masters of the original stereo albums mixes (all in 24/96 hi-res), plus extensive additional material with each disc also featuring a complete alternate album + a further selection of additional, related studio/live material in hi-res.
Lizard Blu-Ray: also contains the audition material from CDs19/20

Islands Blu-Ray: also contains the following concerts in stereo Zoom Club (4 shows), Marquee Club, Plymouth, Glasgow, Detroit all from 1971.
Earthbound Tour: Blu-Ray features an expanded version of the original album, Summit Studios gig in Stereo & Quadraphonic (newly mixed), the Schizoid Men sequence from the Ladies of the Road album, 2 newly discovered concerts in hi-res stereo & every existing soundboard concert recording from the 1972 US tour: Wilmington, NYC (2 shows), Chicago (2 tracks only), Detroit, Jacksonville, Orlando, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Peoria, Indianapolis & Denver (2 shows).
2 DVDs feature the expanded Earthbound, Summit Studios, Schizoid Men, New York 1972 & the recently discovered live concerts.
12” box with booklet, memorabilia, a further downloadable concert, new sleeve-notes by Sid Smith, Jakko Jakszyk & David Singleton

https://www.dgmlive.com/news/27%20Disc%20Boxed%20Set%20Pre-order

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 7 September 2017 17:16 (three months ago) Permalink

jeez

sleeve, Thursday, 7 September 2017 17:22 (three months ago) Permalink

I'd hit it.

Maybe.

Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 8 September 2017 02:03 (three months ago) Permalink

Which is to say, I have an unnatural appreciation for this era if the band – I have a number of really fond memories digging thru these records, their opulent artwork, gatefolds and Sinfield lyrics. To that point, I would hope that Sinfield's lyrics get their due in this box – an essay or something that establishes and examines how important his vision was to this era.

Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 8 September 2017 14:11 (three months ago) Permalink

seems like Sinfield is embarrassed by his youthful pixie-isms…

veronica moser, Friday, 8 September 2017 15:12 (three months ago) Permalink

nah, he may have been pixie-ish personally, but his words were dystopic, if florid…

veronica moser, Friday, 8 September 2017 15:14 (three months ago) Permalink

3CDs feature auditions for the Islands band...

I know Elton John and Bryan Ferry auditioned for Poseidon, anyone know anything about this?

"Celebration" encourages the listener to celebrate good times. (Dan Peterson), Friday, 8 September 2017 15:32 (three months ago) Permalink

I saw them in the summer and the guy beside me was annoyed that there were only three drummers, not four like he'd expected. I can imagine him saying 'Only 21 CDs?!' to the box above.

dinnerboat, Friday, 8 September 2017 15:37 (three months ago) Permalink

Only Elton auditioned for Poseidon AFAIK but they both auditioned for Islands. I just love the idea of Fripp holding onto these audition tapes for 40 years and deciding that now is the right time to release them.

heaven parker (anagram), Friday, 8 September 2017 15:44 (three months ago) Permalink

That timeline wouldn't make sense, both were established in their careers by the time Islands was recorded.

Wiki: In early 1970 Ferry had auditioned as lead singer for King Crimson, who were seeking a replacement for Greg Lake. Although Robert Fripp and Pete Sinfield decided that Ferry's voice was unsuitable for King Crimson's material, they were impressed with his talent and helped the fledgling Roxy Music to obtain a contract with E.G. Records.

"Celebration" encourages the listener to celebrate good times. (Dan Peterson), Friday, 8 September 2017 15:50 (three months ago) Permalink

Wiki also says:

After a search for new musicians, Fripp and Sinfield secured a returning Collins and Ian Wallace on drums. Auditions for a singer included those from Bryan Ferry, Elton John, and John Gaydon, the band's manager. The position went to Raymond "Boz" Burrell.

need to check Sid Smith's book but I don't have my copy to hand at the moment. I seem to recall Fripp saying something about it in the liner notes for A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson as well.

heaven parker (anagram), Friday, 8 September 2017 16:37 (three months ago) Permalink

Wow that's crazy, Elton had already recorded four albums, including Tumbleweed Connection, by spring of '70. Sorry, just trying to sort out the chronology.

"Celebration" encourages the listener to celebrate good times. (Dan Peterson), Friday, 8 September 2017 16:54 (three months ago) Permalink

Three albums but point taken. I had always assumed Elton's audition was before the self-titled record was recorded – but wiki does confirm that "Your Song" didn't chart until October '70 so maybe the underlying idea that he wasn't yet a success when he tried out holds.

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 9 September 2017 02:00 (three months ago) Permalink

it'll be amazing if ferry and john auditions are on this box. I have downloads of all the other mega box sets and I have to admit I don't dip into them all that often.

akm, Sunday, 10 September 2017 21:01 (three months ago) Permalink

I don't have the Road to Red set but he Larks Tongues set is really good. As much as I like Starless box, there's a ton of improvs on the LTIA one that don't sound like anything else that band ever did. Once Muir left, they settled into a thing. An absolutely unique and amazing thing to be sure but a thing nonetheless.

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 11 September 2017 04:19 (three months ago) Permalink

I love the recordings of the Muir band. Most of them sound like shit, but where the hell else are you going to hear stuff like a Wetton-Cross violin duet?

bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 11 September 2017 04:47 (three months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

So I'm reading Bill Bruford's autobiography (which had been sitting on my bookshelf for many years), and it's pretty great. Even though some of the music doesn't really hold up for me (but some really does), I've always connected with his approach and mentality. He's a smart dude and writes well about the industry and his own performance anxieties etc.

change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:01 (one month ago) Permalink


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