Killing Joke - Classic Or Dud, Search And Destroy

more later.

I have a dreadful feeling though that if I was Japanese I'd think the same things about Keiji Haino that I do about Jaz Coleman.

Bought the new Primal Scream album. Everyone raving about it. "Wardance" from the Joke blows that whole damn album away. And as for not being heavy enough; listen to Extremities and Exorcist off of Pandemonium.

Honor, Intensity, Integrity, First Rate Musicianship and having a profound influence on many popular bands: KILLING JOKE!

Or, for that matter:

Jez

Bez

Baz

Gaz

Jem

Cressa

Sorry, that story isn't true.

I have seen 'the bastards' live, Nicholas, which was as dispiriting and boring as any gig I've ever been to.

You are talking out of your arse.

You've seen them live ? Did you have your eyes closed & your fingers in your ears ?

Honour The Fire.

T.

Sometimes when Killing Joke don't like a crowd they aim to f**k 'em off. They probably didn't like the look of you.

"HONOUR THE FIRE" !!, ..."THERE IS NO-ONE MIGHTIER"

See what I mean. As I said - Pomp-post-punk at it's most preposterous.

Like so many other things, I first stumbled across them thanks to the 1989 _Trouser Press_ guide, and being a Questing Young College DJ Type, I searched and listened. As that was arguably the era of Wax Trax dominance and I was duly (and pleasantly) scarred for life, early KJ made perfect sense to me as proto-Ministry. If you want proof, dig up "Burning Inside" from _Mind is a Terrible Thing..._, which is a *total* KJ homage. And Chuck Eddy noticed it as well. ;-)

End of the eighties, total muck. Nineties stuff, mixed to indifferent. I think I'm also glad I've never actually seen them live. The first three albums, though -- they still rock. "Requiem," "Wardance," "Follow the Leader," and of course the godlike "The Wait," which not even Metallica could really screw up -- all reasons to say they had a definite something.

As for the Primal Scream album, I didn't like it either. I can quite see why KJ fans would have a problem with a record which kicks off with "Kill All Hippies", mind you.

What ever next! This thread is already chaotic, complex and intense just like Killing Joke passionate music.

Maybe Killing joke fans can address, Tom's question:

What are Killing Joke communicating? What makes Killing Joke's music different from other artists? What albums would you recommend?

and Tanya there are a few female fans on the KJ mailing list!

Rather than trading personal insults, lets focus on the music, lets keep the debate intelligent.

My full reply on why Killing Joke are one the most important British bands of all time will arrive later.

Not for the first time in the last few days, an enthusiast has told us that we can't judge a band on merely one or two albums. I would like to register my strong disagreement with this, and suggest to them that, by their own logic, they are not qualified to talk about music until they have heard EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF MUSIC EVER RECORDED. Then they can come back to me with their valid opinions.

As for KJ, I quite like a couple of things off their first LP because they mostly remind me of being 11 years old. Now I think they're pretty much rubbish but nostalgia leads me back to 'Wardance' Requiem' and 'Psyche' once in a while. Note to regular readers: I'm not proud of this.

As far as being 'the forefathers of industrial music' I'd be much happier looking at Cabaret Voltaire and Throbbing Gristle (whose label gave industrial its name, let's not forget), both of whom were funnier and less obvious than KJ. And frankly better.

Anyway, Tim Hopkins deserves the highest praise for his "every single piece of music ever recorded" comment.

And I quite like Killing Joke's first album, but I'm starting to feel embarrassed about it.

And I did appreciate Tim's zinger. But my point on the Swans still holds. ;-)

As for not liking the music, what specifically? The guitars? The drumming? Dub influence? The melodies? oh wait, the song titles. thats it.

with the joke integrity is never an issue.

Certainly the likes of Ministry, Nine Inch Nails & other "industrial" heavyweights have profited in Killing Joke's slipstream. Have you heard the first Ministry album "With Sympathy" from 1983 ? Sounds like the f*ck*ng Thompson Twins !

Killing Joke soon developed their own "tribal" style of music which was plagiarized by the lesser likes of Sex Gang Children, Play Dead, 1919, Danse Society & a host of others. Fair enough, I can well appreciate that people do not like their music but to deny their importance in rock's rich history is being sadly ill-informed.

As for Jaz's classical projects, I sense an obvious air of inverted snobbery from the mainstream music press - never seems to get a mention. With the demise of Melody Maker & Sounds, the poor old NME cover laughable pop tripe cos it's desperate for readership.

They are acknowledged as being major influences on the likes of Faith No More, Soundgarden, Metallica and Nirvana. Musically, there's nobody quite like the Joke - they've been brave enough in the $$ driven world of commercialism to explore different sounds and rhythms.

Yeah, you either love them or hate them. I'm a Joker. I love the combination of the frenetic drums, driving bass and edgey guitar delivered like nobody else does. I get the adrenalin spike whenever I hear 'Wardance', 'Whiteout' or 'Exorcism'. The lyrics, while I don't always agree with the sentiment, compliment the music perfectly.

Definately paved the way for some classic acts. Definately more classic than dud.

The Joker in me says "if you don't like them, then fuck you". Good thing I have him under control...

-S

KILLING JOKE: THE BEGINNING

The first four albums are worth exploring Killing Joke (1980) and What’s this for (1981) Revelations (1982) Fire Dances. (1983)

The first two had a raw intense feeling, that merged punk, and to my ears Black Sabbath and even the stooges and dub influences into a new sonic blueprint. The next built two built and extended Killing Joke reputation as an individualistic band that stood apart from other bands.

The tribal drumming, the pounding rhythms, the use of keyboards, powerful bass guitars, and guitars that shatter with intensity and Jaz's passionate vocal delivery style.

KILLING JOKE: THE MID EIGHTIES

1985 – January saw the release of the Killing Joke most famous song “Love Like Blood” this was my first introduction to Killing Joke as 14 year old going on 15. The immense power and build up in this song, to me is as important as Love will tear us apart. The influence of this song alone inspired Faith No More to create similar intense tracks on their Introduce Yourself album.

Night time is one of my personal favourite album of the 80s, injected melody with power - and one of the classic alternative rock singles of all time - Love Like Blood. Although released in 1985 this still sounds contemporary with a razor sharp production by Chris Kimsey.

Brighter than a thousand Suns - was more melodic, but very atmospheric and arty. Listen closely the tempos were complex. Adorations was a fine single that should have been a hit, but just missed out.

MY FIRST EXPERIENCE OF KILLING JOKE

Back in 1985 ! over 16 years a go! The band music have been with me ever since. There are few British artists that were making music over twenty years that still have integrity, of believing music as an art form Killing Joke are one of them along with Wire, The The – recording music only when the need to make music arises, not as a quick short term career cash in releasing bullshit to appease the NME and Lammo.

WHAT ARE KILLING JOKE COMMUNICATING? WHY ARE KILLING JOKE IMPORTANT?

Killing Joke stand alone as band in their approach to music. They don’t belong to any one genre - Killing Joke stand alone. Killing Joke stand for individuality, integrity, a real escape for the mundane every day life routines.

INFLUENCE OF KILLING JOKE ON MUSIC

Voivod, Tool, Red Harvest, Solefald, Jane’s Addiction, early Faith No More, Modern English, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Rico, Nine Inch Nails, Scorn, Godflesh, The God Machine, Nirvana and many more.

Indeed my favourite album of 2000 Red Harvest – Cold Dark Matter, was influenced by Killing Joke

Red Harvest

A highly recommended for everyone who likes challenging edgy powerful intense music.

Fact Killing Joke are one of the most important British bands in influencing other artists across a wide spectrum of artists. Killing Joke have inspired, I can’t see dull plonkers like Cast, OCS, and Stereophonics ever inspiring anything creative! Can you? No

THE 90S LEGACY: Fact Killing Joke released two of the finest albums by a British band in the 90s, that they have written out of history by the NME/ Enemy and a generation of Britpoppers/ and dad rockers are not even aware of Killing Joke existence is despicable!

Tom stated "And is it just be or are they not anywhere near as heavy-sounding as they're made out to be." Tom, honestly have you heard 1990 Extremities album - one of the most sonically powerful albums by a British group over the past 25 years.

KJ Released two of the finest albums of the 90s: Extremities, Dirt and various Repressed Emotions - that was like Joy Division, Big Black and thrash metal (that they influenced in the first place) combined with the Killing Joke blueprint crushed into a molten breakdown of immense complex sonic power. Not since The Cure unleashed Pornography has psychotic power felt this multi dimensional and visceral extreme. Then in 1994 Pandemonium - Killing Joke injected 3D vibe into their music that transcended their previous peaks the tribal early sound, the supreme melodic power of Night time and the intensity of Extremities..

In 1994 Killing Joke stood alone there was no British band doing what they achieved with this album. This was not only an artistic success for the band, but also there most successful sales wise worldwide. They even achieved a few top 40 hits, all be it minor ones. At the start of the dull brit pop retro trip that we were to suffer throughout the 90s, this Killing joke shined like a beacon in a sea of conformist shit.

In 1994 I rated Bark Psychosis -hex, O rang - herd of instinct and Killing Joke - pandemonium as a reinvention in innovative British guitar music, each adding their own individual axis of invention. If you have never listened to Pandemonium give it a try, this was complex music, that was powerful with an inventive streak running through it, the intersounds of bass guitar, powerful guitar, synth mixed brilliantly by Youth.

No British band matched this album in this style throughout the 90s, and only Earthtone 9 arc’ tan’gent in 2000 attempted to get close with their excellent Killing Joke inspired sounds.

In half a decade of dull retro britpop, Killing Joke injected orginality and intensity, their pandemonium album is sublime.

THE FUTURE: Why we still need Killing Joke in the future more than ever?

Looking at the gormless bands in the NME/on Steve Lammo’s show, I thought that a new millennium we had seen the back of verse-chorus- verse 60s and rehashed influences. Have you seen the cunts flooding back this year Travis, Bluetones, Dodgy, The Divine Comdey, Stereophonics, The Manics, Ash, Gay Dad, Ocean Colour Scene, Cast, Shed Seven, and newer duds such as Clearlake, Lowgold, Coldplay, Terris, Toploader, Starsailor… it is enough to make anyone vomit in this MOR mid paced indie shit, that I know that many regulars of I Love Music detest as much Killing Joke fans!

We need Killing Joke to inject originality, vitality and passion back into rock music.

Singles collection album Autumn 2001.

A new album with Jaz, Raven, Geordie sometime in the future

However Killing Joke will release a new album, that was stated by Jaz Coleman last year will be the most violent opus yet! and Paul Raven has confirmed.. that moves are being made in preparation for the new album, which he has predicted will be a "crushing masterpiece". So the WAIT goes on !!!!

SUMMARY

I am looking forward to a future new Killing Joke, even if this delayed to 2002!. There are a very few bands to match them, although the forthcoming albums by Tool and The Chameleons are two that I am looking forward to in the interim.

Also turn the volume right up and feel the power and intensity of Killing Joke music shudder through you, I recommend the 1992 compilation Laugh I nearly bought one, and 1994 Pandemonium as excellent starting points.

Killing Joke passionate music for passionate people. Tom I hope you don't mind the take over of this thread, Killing Joke are a special band that deserve greater exposure, the likes of NME and Xfm have ignored them - they deserve respect.

By the way I don't think we ever will convert DC ! So leave it that !

For more information I Recommend Killing Joke: The Last Laugh The Last Laugh

DJ Martian DJ Martian

Imdb reviews all complain of bad sound mix obscuring the interviews but I never had a problem with this, maybe it was fixed later?

I've started watching this in 20 minute bits here and there and felt the sound recording was often pretty bad and the mix wasn't helping

The editor has done a great job of papering over the seemingly quite limited footage, but at this stage I'm really wanting to see more of the band in full flight

I suppose that's what YouTube is for

Loving the second album. Hard to imagine any other classic punk band coming ahead of them in my heart.

Still very fond of that documentary aside from the weird timeline jumping

I got tired of waiting for a new album so I compiled a bakers dozen of 21st century Jaz guest appearances and collaborations and, as the kids say, it smacks:

Transformations - Proměny (with Čechomor)
Molten (Tribazik)
Human Smile (Les Tambours Du Bronx)
Freedom Song (Levee Walkers)
Tears For The West (Levee Walkers)
Party In The Chaos (with Deflore)
Sunset In The West (with Deflore)
Transhuman World (with Deflore)
The Day The Earth Went Mad (with Ondrej Smeykal)
Perversión (Liquidarlo Celuloide)
Remembrance Day (K÷93)
Giving Up The Ghost (K÷93)
Scrying (K÷93)

What's This For is a great album to play loudly. From cassette if possible.

Really enjoying the Alex Paterson bio. Lots of great stories and details around the formation of Killing Joke and sister(?) band Brilliant.

Lol at the early stretch of this thread.

"Unspeakable" is so awesome

the first four posts of the invasion are so so classic

is that the actual *first* alex in nyc post???

i love ilm stuff like that, batman's origin story type shit

I believe my first post was this one...

Tom chirped: "And is it just me or are they not anywhere near as heavy-sounding as they're made out to be." I dare say that without Killing Joke, most of your precious "heavy sounding" bands wouldn't even exist. Killing Joke have indulged in a myriad of different musical styles and sounds well beyond the monochromatic "heavy," yet when they choose to go that route, there is no one mightier. To judge Killing Joke by one or two tracks is an excercise in blind-sighted stupidity. Do your homework before submitting an opinion! Moreover, if you're put off by the conceptual/lyrical content of Killing Joke, why not toddle home and slap on a Pixies or Cheap Trick album and celebrate the meaningless and banal. At least Killing Joke have something to say. You may not like it, agree with it...or even understand it....but at least there something of substance there. Killing Joke credit their audience with higher standards and a modicum of intelligence. Try getting that from Korn.

Angry young man, and all that.

But not wrong.

Well, not wrong about Killing Joke (although why I chose to lambast Cheap Trick and the Pixies in the process is a mystery -- I actually like both bands), but the things I have been wrong about since are countless and indefensible.

We all grow and change while still honoring the fire.

Although I will say if Jaz goes full covidiot lyrics on his next album, that will be a hard pass.

Although I will say if Jaz goes full covidiot lyrics on his next album, that will be a hard pass.

Yeah I fear there's a great likelihood of this.

It seems really odd that no one in this 20 year old thread has ever mentioned "Eighties" which I've always assumed is their most popular song (it's easily my favorite - the riff is incredible). So.. "EIGHTIES!"

Yeah, "Night Time" was my entry and my favorite from the 80s, but this band has such an interesting development arc that there are albums from each decade that are outstanding and could be argued to be their best:
90s - "Extremities, Dirt And Various Repressed Emotions"
00s - "Killing Joke 2003"
10s - "Absolute Dissent"

...as well as stylistic outliers like the acoustic "Democracy", the metal "Pandemonium", and the sludgy "Hosannas From The Basements Of Hell".

both self-titled albums (1980 and 2003) are my favorites

i'm still upset that they cancelled the 1 tour where i would have had the chance to see them live

Although I will say if Jaz goes full covidiot lyrics on his next album, that will be a hard pass.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, July 8, 2021 5:55 PM

Didn't know he'd taken this direction. Sad to hear.

the opposite of surprising, there's crank-y stuff littered all over even the 03 s/t (it fucking bangs though)

I don't think he has but, let's be frank about it, it seems more likely than not likely that he will.

Oh, I thought he must have said something about covid, nothing I can find

He's got a video on his YouTube channel ranting about Microsoft vaccines.

and there we have it, was bound to happen.
think i would be more shocked if Jaz took the vax with a massive grin on his face and posted such an image to his social media to be honest.

I do sort of admire the front of a guy who fled to Iceland to await the coming of the end times in 1982 just being like "here are my latest insights on epidemiology"

I think Jaz won't be happy until the world actually ends so he can say "I told you sooooooooooo!!!"

Killing Joke has some filthy grooves. I have always loved that repeating triplet on the one on the main beat from "The Fall of Because".

Jaz claims to have experienced COVID first hand, but has also been wresting with a few other, non-COVID-related issues. He's allegedly on the mend at the moment, though.

In terms of what he has to say about the pandemic, his accounts are characteristically fueled by what he considers his precognitive insight into the duplicitous machinations of world governments. He first said he'd never accept a compulsory vaccine, although I do not know how he feels about it now.

Last track of What's THIS For is a great big assault. Listening to the third album, love how it has been escalating.

"Revelations" is OK, the best bits are side A, the first 4 tracks of which are even better from a Peel session. I can't even bring to mind side B looking at the tracklist.

Pylon (Super Deluxe) showed up on release radar today and reminded me how much I liked this album.

PYLON has some great moments, my favorite being "Star Spangled."

I thought Revelations was pretty strong throughout, just probably not going to be one of my favorites. Started Night Time, loving it.

This is the longest wait for a new album since the immortal 2003 self-titled. Any word from the KJ camp?

Revelations made me wonder if there are any other groups that combine hysteria and sardonic observation. It doesn't seem like a paradox when Killing Joke do it.

Is the remaster of Brighter Than A Thousand Suns more scarce than the others? Don't see it very often, hope to get it from discogs soon.

New Essential Logic, co-produced by Youth, out next month (thx to Gerald McBoing-Boing for posting this link on EL's thread) https://www.roughtrade.com/gb/essential-logic/land-of-kali

The version of "Brighter" with the original mixes? There's a CD on Discogs for under $10 now. And very good it is.

I ordered the remaster on discogs and got an 80s CD instead but just couldn't be bothered sending it back so I made do with it. I read that the remaster is much better and restores what the band and producer wanted so I might order the remaster again and hope whoever I buy it from next time doesn't make the same mistake. Regardless of intended mastering, I think this is really fantastic and I'm surprised it's considered such a step down. "A Southern Sky" and "Wintergardens" are wonderful but I really like most of the album.

I'm alarmed how scarce these remasters are getting, hope another printing is coming

It's one of those follow-ups-to-a-great-album that suffers only by comparison. "Brighter" is a fantastic album in and of itself. The bonus b-sides ("Goodbye To The Village" and "Exile") are just as worthy as the LP proper, too.

Even if you got a bunch of their albums, that Killing Joke Singles 1979-2012 is a great comp. That 2cd set was in my car and a lot of play for A couple of years.

2020-21…could not escape to Iceland but many weird days, their sound just fit.

I'm alarmed how scarce these remasters are getting, hope another printing is coming

― Robert Adam Gilmour,

i have most of the remasters, but with this thread revival decided to check out filling in the gaps ('brighter..', and 'outside..').
checked a few of the usual places i purchase cds from.
damn, you are not wrong re them being scarce/£££.

I just read the original Gathering invasion salvo here and it's such a time capsule -- a glimpse into the past not only of this board but of the internet itself, honestly pretty moving to read imo

there are also at minimum 10 completely classic lines in it

Ah I thought this thread was revived due to this great piece by John Doran the other day (which is not just about KJ, but the fire is very much honoured.)

https://thequietus.com/articles/32664-killing-joke-post-punk

How often do Discogs sellers list the wrong edition of what they're selling?

Really wanted to listen through them all chronologically but since some of the middle period albums are so expensive I might just get whatever I can and listen out of order