Swans: Classic or Dud?

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I'm only starting to get familiar with their really early stuff, which seems like it could be just the right medicine when you need it--and also seems like it could literally wrench loose your bowels. I'm very intrigued by the guitar/drums/bass interplay (Does that mean I like beating my head against a cement wall by analogy?), and as of yet I can't decide how to treat Gira's vocals. I'd like to have your opinions on these guys... what about their later stuff, too?

Clarke B., Saturday, 17 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Classic of course. I have a live-album "Kill the Child" that catches Swans in full glory, almost religious music in that you expect the sky to open up and turn red, or something like that. Musically impecable, although Gira as a lyricist can be somewhat of a whiner. Later stuff is allright but not as shocking, it's a interesting take on psychedelica.

Omar, Saturday, 17 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

CLASSIC. Not only classic, but in a class all by itself. What compares to "Children of God/World of Skin" or "Soundtracks for the Blind"? The latter feels more like movies than music. You listen to it in awe a few times when you first get it, straight through. Then, you rarely have to listen to it again. Not because it's not good, just because it was so powerful. Like with a good movie, you don't want to overwatch it.

SWANS albums for repeat listens: "Omniscience" is a great live rockgoth thing, as is "Swans Are Dead". "The Great Annihilator" is one of my all time favorite CDs. The recently released "Various Failures" is fantastic. The earlier industrial Swans stuff I can do without.

Newer Michael Gira stuff like "Body Lovers" and "Angels of Light" continue to dazzle and delight in ways similar but different from Swans. I recommend Body Lovers, at least. It's one continuous album with 9 reference points, so you can fast forward or rewind, but there are no breaks in the music. Perfect for zoning out or on the subway. Gets freaky, of course. Angels of Light were fantastic when I saw them live, unfortunately the LIVE cd they released of the show had pretty poor production. The studio release by Angels of Light called "New Mother" was okay, but some of it, though amazingly produced, just bored me.

Them fellers sure can be oppressive, though. That's why I go through phases. In all actuality, I really don't listen to them too much anymore just because it's so depressing. I'd rather be happy.

, Saturday, 17 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Saw them in 1985 supporting the Fall at Heaven. Possibly the most extreme gig I've ever seen. They deserve some respect for going that far.

I have heard few of their albums. Those that I have heard have been among the most negative, miserable, pointless pieces of music that I have ever encountered. No doubt Gira would in some way approve of this reaction. I couldn't care less. Dud.

Dr. C, Saturday, 17 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

The first two records are all I really need, though it's all good.

Otis Wheeler, Saturday, 17 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Pfft...I dunno. I have "The great annihilator" but I must have listened to it twice. I got another album of thiers years ago (cant remember the name of it but it had a long title and there was a rabbit on it)and it was shite. Maybe there earlier stuff is better, I'm not too pushed.

Michael Bourke, Saturday, 17 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Classic but ever-evolving -- meaning that the early stuff is no indication at all of how most of the later material is. They have a definite nadir -- _The Burning World_, perhaps unsurprisingly also the only major label album they did -- but the high points are numerous. _Various Failures_ nicely excerpts the one or two good tracks from _Burning World_ plus a slew of stuff from _White Light..._, _Love of Life_ and _Ten Songs From Another World_, which shows the band moving well into the realm of more conventionally dramatic, folk-influenced music -- an oversimplification, but you'll be able to hear the contrast. _Soundtracks for the Blind_ was the last studio album and is worth it as both a kind of career overview in terms of sonic approach and for the bemusing fact that "The Helpless Child" essentially invents Godspeed You Black Emperor. ;-) Etc. etc. -- my reviews at the AMG go into all this if you'd like to find out more.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 17 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Don't listen to the naysayers. Swans can't be judged by one or two albums, anyway, and it sounds like the people who hate them are only familiar with about that much. Perhaps their earlier, more abrasive work is considered "classic" by some, but it's my absolute least favorite. You never hear people saying, "I got Beatles' "Rubber Soul" and it's the gayest piece of crap I ever heard" and effectively dismissing all beatles music, right? Later Swans material is some of the most intricate and best-produced music there is. It's on the oppressive/ depressive vibe, but nowhere near the earlier "Holy Money" kind of stuff. It's more melancholy-- and there's plenty of melancholy bands out there. You choose to listen to it when it suits you. I'd suggest "Children of God/World of Skin" as your very next Swans purchase. The variation in that album from the first song to the second song, alone, will probably suprise you. But, there's also a dramatic difference from disc one to disc two. Disc one is a little more rocking and disc two is a little more spiritual, almost gospel sounding. "Breathing Water" is one of the creepiest, beautiful songs there is. Must be heard to be believed.

, Sunday, 18 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Ever felt that the music you always hear is too full of warmth, liveliness, humor, rocking and melody ? Well, the Swans get rid of all that useless baggage, which I'm sure is a relief to some people. A monster dud.

The Burning World had a few, uh, songs on it. Bet their cult thinks it's a sell-out.

Patrick, Sunday, 18 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Ahem. I don't consider _Burning World_ a sellout, just dull -- a far different thing, if only because sellouts should at least theoretically show *some* sort of commercial appeal. The fact that your sweeping statement regarding the band's work in general appears to be based on a listen of only the stuff they recorded up through 1986 or so as opposed to perhaps listening to anything from _White Light..._ onward I'll let pass without mentioning.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 18 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

True, Ned, I haven't heard anything from them since The Burning World (1989, right ?) so I grant that they might have improved since then. I don't have much hope for Michael Gira's sense of humor, but maybe they found a way out of the doom-and-gloom ?

Patrick, Sunday, 18 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

classic for the relentless grind of _body to body job to job_. early swans is some of the most cathartic music ever. _children of god_ is great if you're in the mood, ridiculous if you're not. jarboe was an unfortunate addition to the band. i actually liked _burning world_, though i couldn't imagine listening now. i have less interest in what i've heard of the 90s stuff.

sundar subramanian, Sunday, 18 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Michael Gira is fucking hilarious. Taken past a certain point, humorlessness becomes its antithesis. The 80's needed him just to counteract the 'humor' of They Might Be Giants.

Otis Wheeler, Monday, 19 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Actually, Gira is pretty humorous and has a sense of humor, too. At least, live he does. I think the music is supposed to be dark and humorless. You know, like, happy bands don't usually write death songs? It's the same kinda thing. Gira gets points for making the starkest, most oppressive music I've ever heard and making it still sound "pretty". If you don't think Swans sound pretty, it's because you're still judging them by their earliest work, which, in my opinion, hasn't aged well, but is still the best industrial music I've heard (comparing only to the little I know: Skinny Puppy, NIN, Ministry, Einsterzende Neubauten, Front 242... I hate industrial music with a passion).

But, it is funny that humorless music can be "hilarious" since "humorous" music can really piss me off- like Ween for instance. Sometimes they're annoying as hell.

, Monday, 19 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I doubt that They Might Be Giants were so pervasive in the 80s that they necessited a reaction all on their own. Maybe Mr Mister did. Actually, since the Swans were around before TMBG, maybe TMBG *was* the counteraction. But yeah, bands that set out to be humorous at all times are as much of an annoyance as the ones who are about being dark and depressed at all times. Whether it's laughs or anger or sadness, I kinda prefer when they're just sorta part of the package, rather than something entire genres are based on.

Patrick, Monday, 19 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Forgive me for wandering in from the Killing Joke debate, but SWANS are local legends around my part of the woods, so I couldn't stop m'self from chiming in. Actually, I'm not here to praise nor damn Gira's gang, but rather suggest checking out a couple of bands largely spawned by Swans' influece, Brooklyn's late-lamented COP SHOOT COP and Tod Ashley's Firewater.

alex, Thursday, 22 March 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

seven months pass...
cop shoot cop sounded like gary numan doing springsteen numbers

bob snoom, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
saw gira live in london last nite. i understand now. crushes like churches

zemko (bob), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 11:50 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

thought this might have been revived.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 13:14 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

no one else went? andrew l?

zemko (bob), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 17:38 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

yeah he told me at the last FAP that he was.

(I didn't as I'm working late for this stupid presentation tomorrow therefore I am jealous: did gira scream the word 'mother' at any point during the gig?)

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 17:42 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"Grindin" is like a vintage Swans song, not just sonically (drums like an endless row of scrap-metal monoliths collapsing on a burnt and barren wasteland) but thematically. Both Clipse and Swans find social reality at the intersection of sex, money, and power. They view everything else as pretty fluff, designed to obscure the harsh truth.

The difference is, Gira and Co. sound traumatized by this discovery, whereas Malice and Pusha T sound like they're doing a gleeful dance.

EC, Wednesday, 12 March 2003 18:03 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Classic. Most of what's been mentioned is their refined stuff.

Being a masocist I especially love the brutal Cop/Holy Money
period - most people would find this stuff horrible, but given
a bit more listening one may be able to experience this amazing
feeling of ? - too hard to describe, but it compliments such
painful things like exercise, washing dishes etc.

Anyone heard the live disc 'Public Castration is a Good Idea'?
This out-heavies anything I've ever heard...

KF ., Tuesday, 8 February 2005 12:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I can't believe I didn't say anything on this thread...surely there must be another one somewhere on the board, because I vaguely remember saying that I'm a White Light From the Mouth of Infinity man, but that I still love the grind of the early stuff, and even the ultrapolished The Burning World. I really have to be in the mood to get into the early early early stuff though.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 17:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I own the double disc Cop/Young God/Greed/Holy Money and the live albums Public Castration Is A Good Idea and Feel Good Now. I like all of 'em, especially PCIAGI, which really needs to be played as loud as your stereo will possibly go. One of my favorite Godflesh songs, "Love, Hate (Slugbaiting)" is like this album condensed down to ten minutes in an attempt to climb the charts. That, too, should be played at absurd volume. I used to own Soundtracks For The Blind and didn't like it that much - it seemed like capitulation to me. Never heard anything from the in-between years.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 17:21 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Classic. But you must be in the mood for some of their work.

J.H. Malerman (xada_hgla), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 19:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Completely classic. Anyone who likes music of ANY kind could find something to like in their broad, vast array of sounds and moods. One of my top three groups ever, in every incarnation. And I started at BURNING WORLD, working backward and forward and deep into all the solo stuff - it can be done!

Gira's book THE CONSUMER also so, so recommended.

matt the queeg (veal), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 21:55 (eleven years ago) Permalink

If Swans lyric sheets make me roffle, am I a sick fuck?

Marmot (marmotwolof), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 21:59 (eleven years ago) Permalink

No, especially if you're laughing at the story that came on the insert to Cop.

Utterly, timelessly CLASSIC.

sleeve version 2.0 (sleeve testing), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 22:22 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I just have Cop on the double disc comp, no story - is that online somewhere?

I just mean all the terse little statements of complete hopelessness in the lyrics. I get about three lines in and completely lose my shit.

Marmot (marmotwolof), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 22:27 (eleven years ago) Permalink

If Swans lyric sheets make me roffle, am I a sick fuck?

No, it means you're the right audience.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 22:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink

You can't get much more hopeless than "god damn the sun."

Butt Dickass (Dick Butkus), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 22:53 (eleven years ago) Permalink


latebloomer scrabbly dabbly doo (skawreeng) (latebloomer), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 22:55 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Random thoughts:
Gira and Jarboe are 2 of the musicians I could easily imagine being psycho killers.

When I saw Angels of Light play Tonic, he drank a full pint of whiskey in a glass filled from behind the bar and didn't seem in the least bit drunk. After the show, he went and got a refill and mingled like he was at an art opening or something.

His writing is pretty disturbing.

Jarboe seems to have severe mental problems. Oh yeah, and so does Gira.

Butt Dickass (Dick Butkus), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 22:59 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Look, you people don't understand. I saw Jarboe at Bumbershoot a few weeks ago. She was fucking fantastic. In the daytime even. She came out into the audience and sang to a few audience members personally one at a time, including me. I was so embarassed to realize everyone was looking at me. She held her hand out and I held her hand. Then her voice got louder and she looked into my eyes and sang louder and I was afraid. I was really afraid in that moment.

-- Ficky Stingers (bimble87...), Sunday 1:33 AM. (Bimble...) (later) (link)

best/scariest/best thing ever.
Weird that two completely different Swans C or D threads just got revived a few days apart. Here's the other:
Classic or Dud: Swans

Marmot (marmotwolof), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 23:25 (eleven years ago) Permalink

(Haha ok, they were revived by the same guy)

Marmot (marmotwolof), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 23:27 (eleven years ago) Permalink

five months pass...
I've pulled out my vinyl copy of Greed. I haven't heard it in ages. But I remember Holy Money being better and that is going to be played next.

Bimble, Sunday, 18 March 2007 02:05 (eleven years ago) Permalink

holy money is maybe better but the song 'greed' is perhaps the best thing swans ever did.

stirmonster, Sunday, 18 March 2007 03:29 (eleven years ago) Permalink


Such uplifting music, hah!

I was remembering that Holy Money was the first record I ever bought of the Swans. I bought it on a sheer whim for a few bucks, used. The first time I heard it I was sure I'd wasted my money. It was like "what is this crap?" But gradually I started to understand it. I didn't go nuts over them until Children of God, though.

Bimble, Sunday, 18 March 2007 04:33 (eleven years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

OK...Happy Ned...Did this already...but isn't exactly what I was looking for anyway...

Screw this....

I'm gonna give up on the Swans...

Aja, Monday, 28 May 2007 05:55 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Filth is one of my all-time favorite albums. I'd recommend that one, but it may not be the best convince-me-otherwise album.

Ivan, Monday, 28 May 2007 06:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Its Aja!

Trayce, Monday, 28 May 2007 06:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Yeah, hi....

I find it funny that my thread was locked so soon...

Anyway, I was bored and wanted to see what was up in these parts...I really should be getting to sleep though...

Aja, Monday, 28 May 2007 06:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I think it's funny that you say "screw this" because Swans have a song called A Screw don't they? Heheh.

Bimble, Monday, 28 May 2007 07:04 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Also there is some really fantastic Swans stuff on You Tube. But in all honesty, Swans are not a band I would likely try to argue with someone into liking the way I would, say, Led Zeppelin or even the Fall. I find it perfectly understandable that some folks will never get Swans.

Bimble, Monday, 28 May 2007 07:08 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I think it's funny that you say "screw this" because Swans have a song called A Screw don't they? Heheh.

-- Bimble, Monday, May 28, 2007 7:04 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

They do? Gosh...is it any good? Or is it really slow and weird...

Aja, Monday, 28 May 2007 07:11 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Well there are two different versions I found.

This one is a more beefed up version of the album version with horns and a heavy industrial beat:


This one is a live performance, and more bare-bones, truer to their early material and I prefer it:


Bimble, Monday, 28 May 2007 07:16 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Of course this is before they became a lot more listenable, pretty and mellow.

Bimble, Monday, 28 May 2007 07:18 (eleven years ago) Permalink


Interesting. I'll leave it at that.

Aja, Monday, 28 May 2007 07:19 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I got into the first couple of albums for a while, saw them live, then gradually decided that life was just too short for Gira's schtick. Haven't listened to them for ten years.

I have a promo copy of 'Cop' which was issued to Radio Forth, our local top forty station, a thought that makes me laugh every time I flick past it on the stack.

Soukesian, Monday, 28 May 2007 07:23 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I don't like the "shut the fuck up" language, but do appreciate that we're not going anywhere again. Wishing for another thread hiatus until something reasonably concrete actually happens.

dlp9001, Friday, 11 March 2016 03:36 (two years ago) Permalink

yes, take one

call all destroyer, Friday, 11 March 2016 03:49 (two years ago) Permalink

btw why in the world would someone (let alone a bunch of ppl) levy a false anonymous accusation against a person who as far as i can gather is a marginally notable public figure if you happen to move in certain literary and academic circles? what would be gained?

call all destroyer, Friday, 11 March 2016 03:52 (two years ago) Permalink

Respect to dlp, no respect to the "kill yourself dlp"s. dlp: I get that this is a threatening situation because accepting Larkin's, Gira's, everyone else's statements as facts puts yourself (and myself and everybody) on a shaky platform of the ambiguity and impetuousness of public opinion, like, "oh gee, so anybody can make a Facebook post saying 'fgti is a rapist' and I just have to deal with that?" I just ask that you put aside phrases like "throwing somebody under the bus" because what is actually going on here is a recognition of an everyday, nearly-commonplace act, of people getting drunk and ignoring consent. It doesn't hurt Gira to say "he raped Larkin"-- rape is a broad term and applies here, but that doesn't make him Jared Fogle. Note that Larkin is not asking for legal recourse, or even accountability. She is asking for understanding. We can accept in equal terms that Larkin claims the sex was non-consensual, and Gira's assertion that it was a "regrettable mistake". We can add into the mix that other sources claim that Larkin is "crazy" and accept that, and have sympathy for her mental state, without letting it determine whether or not she has the ability to recognize when consent is given. The problem with your stance of "let's see the facts" is that it literally serves no purpose. Our culture, on the legal and societal spectrum, does not favour the victims, beyond a rape kit, factually proving a rape is terrifically difficult, and you have an opportunity here to accept all possible truths, believe everybody's point of view. Your only bad direction here is viewing things as black-and-white, that you need Proof! and Facts! you don't need these things. You don't need a notarized document or a police report to read Larkin's story, believe her, read the responses, believe them, and alter your own behaviour, and allow these events to prepare and strengthen yourself for the future sexual abuse of yourself and your family members, either as perpetrators or victims.

got a long list of ILXors (fgti), Friday, 11 March 2016 05:40 (two years ago) Permalink

standing O ^^^^^^^

Neanderthal, Friday, 11 March 2016 05:47 (two years ago) Permalink

thanks fgti, your input here has been great.

dlp you emailed me offboard about some things you went through IRL that relate to this, not gonna go into specifics but someone did lie about you and it went to court and you were the injured party and it sucked. I hope that's vague enough. please, please consider that your personal experiences may be preventing you from seeing the situation in this thread with full clarity. as I said to you offboard, you are a better person (and poster) than this.

but hey, maybe Jon is right and I've only ever interacted with you around music, but we've known each other online for over a decade and I'd really like to think of you as more than some MRA clone.

the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 11 March 2016 05:53 (two years ago) Permalink

the above linked page is just garbage.

― dlp9001, Thursday, March 10, 2016 5:06 PM (4 hours ago)

not seeing anything in the vidaweb page that inclines me to sweepingly dismiss the assembled accounts as "garbage". do they definitively prove anything? no. but they are fairly compelling when taken as a whole.

i half want to support your ostensible agnosticism, but your rush to mock, judge and discard women's testimony smacks of something much less intellectually defensible.

Keks + Nuss (contenderizer), Friday, 11 March 2016 06:00 (two years ago) Permalink

i like how this thread is going on seemingly forever

Treeship, Friday, 11 March 2016 06:02 (two years ago) Permalink

i think it's worth thinking about the fact that dlp and pretty much everyone else on this thread are all posting in relative anonymity with no real names attached. Would you be making the same posts if your government name were attached to them and other people, many whom you don't know, could just link to them and share them willy-nilly? I know I probably would change the way (and amount) I post if that were the case. Then think about that in the context of someone who was sexually assaulted by a famous person, or at least someone more well-known and admired than you.

sarahell, Friday, 11 March 2016 07:11 (two years ago) Permalink

i half want to support your ostensible agnosticism, but your rush to mock, judge and discard women's testimony smacks of something much less intellectually defensible.

sorry if in irl you got screwed over by a liar. but let me tell you something. i have friends that had this happen to them in real life and have seen them struggle w it over the years and the uphill battle they faced was no joke so fuck you dlp.

also nobody is "throwing him under a bus" nobody is "condemning him" so plz w the dramatic language here regarding message board chatter. this is an open message board not a jury, not a court, you are free to share your opinion the same as everyone else. don't be surprised if you are called out for being uncouth. this isn't something ILX dug up in an effort to discredit somebody. we are reacting to widely publicized music news and on a board where ever single scrap of music gossip gets talked about to death. this should not be off limits.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 11 March 2016 14:01 (two years ago) Permalink

dlp was threadbanned last night.

mod, Friday, 11 March 2016 14:08 (two years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...


Larkin features in this massive piece (reading it now)

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 30 March 2016 21:39 (two years ago) Permalink

Speaking strictly in terms of music, new SWANS album slated for June release, according to Young God Records.


Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 5 April 2016 15:32 (two years ago) Permalink

Speaking strictly in terms of music,

the longest "actually"

Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, 5 April 2016 16:18 (two years ago) Permalink

six months pass...


StanM, Thursday, 13 October 2016 17:45 (one year ago) Permalink

good piece

heaven parker (anagram), Thursday, 13 October 2016 19:45 (one year ago) Permalink

four months pass...



StanM, Thursday, 23 February 2017 19:18 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah he was (thor, suspended from twitter, for some bullshit reason like that)

akm, Thursday, 23 February 2017 19:20 (one year ago) Permalink

two months pass...

I really like To Be Kind, as it turns out. Still trying to figure out if it's a tribute to Kurt Vonnegut and blues music.

The Seer always kind of fucked with my mood, tbh, but this one is just great. Especially "Bring the Sun/Toussaint L'Ouverture"

mutual interest in technology, the ocean & rap music (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Friday, 5 May 2017 10:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Or rather it sounds like their "blues" album in some parts maybe

mutual interest in technology, the ocean & rap music (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Friday, 5 May 2017 10:26 (one year ago) Permalink

The Great Annihilator/Drainland remaster is now out + this new limited edition (3000) 2CD live album: https://younggodrecords.com/collections/frontpage/products/deliquescence

StanM, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 15:29 (one year ago) Permalink

wow, that discussion upthread sure died a quick death as soon as the handful of mildly dissenting voices were "threadbanned" shortly before this story just sorta fizzled out. There must be a lesson here, I know it, I just don't know what it is.

Wimmels, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 15:33 (one year ago) Permalink

AFAIC it has not fizzled out.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 15:51 (one year ago) Permalink

When's that album she's doing to benefit abused women coming out Ned? Any day now, right? I hope she got the medical help she needed, and I mean that sincerely.

dlp9001, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Matter of fact she does have a new album coming out in a few weeks. Which I've heard and is quite excellent. I can't speak to where any money might go.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:11 (one year ago) Permalink

Yes, she does indeed. A solo album tribute to Ornette Coleman. This is really a bus you want to get off of, I'd think in any normal world. The promo language is crazy, as expected, to the point where I can't even bring myself to get into it, and I have no real opinion on whether the music is good or not. I'm sure that a writer like yourself can ask about where the money might go. My guess: to Tony Visconti and to Larkin. Awaiting next threadban in 3-2-1...

dlp9001, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:22 (one year ago) Permalink

You keep doing you, weirdos.

pickety third (stevie), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:25 (one year ago) Permalink

it's my birthday, so, fuck you

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:26 (one year ago) Permalink

happy birthday karl!

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:27 (one year ago) Permalink

thank you LL!

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Happy birthday Karl!

pickety third (stevie), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 19:18 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm only posting so that the stupid "thread has unread messages" circle gets filled in

PJD PDJ DPJ (DJP), Friday, 19 May 2017 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink


Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 19 May 2017 20:12 (one year ago) Permalink

(note: the functionality itself isn't stupid, it's my neurosis about deleted messages contributing to it)

PJD PDJ DPJ (DJP), Friday, 19 May 2017 20:15 (one year ago) Permalink

two months pass...


Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 August 2017 15:35 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Good news ! pic.twitter.com/YuE3UhfEmU

— thor harris (@thorharris666) August 10, 2017

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 11 August 2017 15:35 (eleven months ago) Permalink

nine months pass...



StanM, Friday, 18 May 2018 17:47 (two months ago) Permalink

I just saw Thor with that Israeli garage rock dude from Monotonix.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2018 18:09 (two months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

JUst reading Sacrifice and Transcendence which is great.

Gira comes across as not being a wonderful person to work for, more driven than fellow feeling.

& it has me wondering
where Virgil Moorefield came in. I just checked the line up of the Foetus band on Rife and it has Ted Parsons on it. I thought that was Foetus fronting the same band that had played as Swans in London that week.
& I've always had the heavy folk rock band I loved in '88 as being the same band as Children of God i.e. with Ted Parsons so am I remembering that wrong. Can't think how many times the band hit london that year. I remember seeing them in Edinburgh in '89 with Vinniwe Signorelli who went onto Unsane on drums. & I think I do recognise Virgil from somewhere.

ah well, great book which has had me wanting to read it continually. Love it.

Stevolende, Sunday, 22 July 2018 18:32 (yesterday) Permalink

Yes! I really enjoyed it too, the chain of events after he quit school and started travelling is insane.

MaresNest, Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:15 (yesterday) Permalink

As I recall it Ted Parsons left to do Prong full time after 1987, to be replaced by Virgil Moorefield for one tour in 1988. By the following tour it was Vincent Signorelli. Gira never was that great at holding a line-up together...

Category: Animist Rock (Matt #2), Sunday, 22 July 2018 22:44 (yesterday) Permalink

Rife was recorded at the Town & Country club during the same week that Butthole Surfers played the Brixton Academy, Harry Crews played the mean Fiddler and a couple of other things that I can't think of right now were on. I think that was '88.
I can't see credits on the live sets i have from that year. & it is 30 years ago. I did see that Rife seems to credit Ted, and i thought it was pretty much the same band playing behind 2 different singers. 1 as foetus Corruptus the other as Swans. THough of course jarboe waouldn't have been in both.
So am I remembering wrong.
I just sent a question to Ted Parsons so may get a clearer response.

Stevolende, Sunday, 22 July 2018 23:42 (yesterday) Permalink

According to Wikipedia, the band on Rife is Parsons, Algis Kizys, Norman Westberg and Raymond Watts - so all of the 1987-88 Swans lineup except Gira and Jarboe.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 22 July 2018 23:50 (yesterday) Permalink

Male is the one which is Westberg/Kizys/Signorelli (plus David Ouimet from Cop Shoot Cop).

Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Sunday, 22 July 2018 23:58 (yesterday) Permalink

Michael gira can go fuck himself

No angel came (Ross), Monday, 23 July 2018 04:47 (three hours ago) Permalink

He’s a rapist

No angel came (Ross), Monday, 23 July 2018 04:52 (two hours ago) Permalink

To clarify I thought SWANS were among the bands that played London on that week in 88 or very close to it. So the same band performed under 2 different names in the same time frame, behind 2 different singers. Shame that neither Swans or Foetus are on Fromthearchives or I'd have a better picture for when people came and went.
I've had Parsons in my head as the drummer on some music I've remembered as pretty sublime for 3 decades. & only came across Virgil Moorefield as part of the puicture since reading Sacrifice and Transcendence.

& I've been thinking for years that T&C performance by Foetus = Rife. Now not getting a definite confirmation. Only seeing recorded in Europe in 1988 & assuming that London is in Europe to a US artist, not specifically England.

Stevolende, Monday, 23 July 2018 06:55 (fifty-three minutes ago) Permalink

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