Paul Barman Release?

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Last I heard Paul Barman was working with Prince Paul on a full length disk. But this was a while ago and apart from his Deltron 3030 appearance he's been MIA. Anybody know what this guy is up to?

Dave Beckhouse, Saturday, 26 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

bruised and left-for-dead in a filthy gutter somewhere, hopefully.

ethan, Saturday, 26 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Word, Ethan. While my vitriol might not be quite as extreme, he DID have a show at William and Mary last year--in fact, he was supposed to crash at my place (since my roommate and I work at the radio station, courtesy blah blah). Let me add that, aside from his obviously atrocious flow and trying-too-hard-to-be-witty rhymes, he's sort of an uptight asshole to boot.

His opening act Dalek, however, were ass-kickingly good. They thought he was a tool, too.

Clarke B., Saturday, 26 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Oh, come on, guys. Surely his cameo on Hawd Gankstuh Rappuhs MCs Wid Ghatz' "Wake Up And Smell The Piss" will win detractors over! Right? (heh heh)

Brian MacDonald, Saturday, 26 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I was always fairly suspicious of him...having heard a track or two that my sister likes, my suspicions were confirmed.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 26 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

The hell with Paul. Tom Barman is where it's at.

helenfordsdale, Sunday, 27 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Helen is OTM

Alacran, Sunday, 27 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

http://www.demon.co.uk/momus/momusbarman.jpeg Paul Barman is one of the brightest and funniest people I've met. He loves language and is brilliant with it. He has the openness and intensity of a hyperactive kid. He's always 'on'.

It's pretty sad so many people hate him. I can only put it down to the fact that people less smart and creative are irritated by his tendency to throw their own limitations into stark relief. That and a reflex against media hype and self-hype. With possibly some anti-semitism thrown in.

He called me last week to complain about this very fact. 'Momus, why does everybody hate me so much?' He also told me he was flying to LA the next day to do more recording for his new album.

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Paul Barman is very very great. 'housemate troubles' is GENIUS.

stevie, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

this is like when googlers resurrect old threads except it's just momus! 'it's so sad that you people hate barman, you're just irritated because you're less smart and creative than him!'. funny nonsensical name-dropping too, 'paul barman called me last week and asked why everyone hates him. he said, 'momus my good friend, why does everyone hate me?'. the only thing more pathetic would be posting a photo of you and him standing next to each other!

ethan, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

How is it like resurrecting old threads when the thread is just two days old? How is it 'funny nonsensical name-dropping' when I say, totally on-topic and in answer to Dave's question, that Barman himself told me what he's up to just last week? And how is it pathetic to illustrate a thread with a recent picture of the subject?

Ethan, man, you are a good illustration of that sad point where bile stops being coherent and just makes a yukky mess on the floor.

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

it's like when googlers resurrect old threads in your smarmy sour grapes style of defense to the artist being discussed, not in timeframe. you come off like a one-sided fan incapable of understanding any criticism, as posts by people not familiar with ilm discourse often are. perhaps your inability to understand this is because you're less smart and creative than me though, or an anti-semite. the name- dropping in nonsensical because it could've been distilled into one sentence without being stretched out into redundant paragraphs ('paul barman said xyz to me. 'xyz, momus!' he said.') AND a photo of you two standing around looking uncomfortable. what is that meant to add to the discussion? gee momus i guess you really do know paul barman, what with the photo and the references to things he said to you and all.

ethan, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I guess the main difference between us is that for you Mr Barman is just another puppet in the puppet show, one you can blithely wish to see 'bruised and left-for- dead in a filthy gutter somewhere, hopefully.' For me he's an actual person, and 'it's very stimulating' to spend an evening with him.

You should come along next time, Ethan. You might -- horror of horrors -- find you like him.

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

How is it like resurrecting old threads when the thread is just two days old?

is, like, hyper-acceleration of culture an that, innit?

i'm afraid i must admit to my ignorance in matters Barman related. i don't know who he is.

Ethan. why should i hate him?
Momus. why should i love him?

to the winner: a 1986 curly wurly and a video of that childrens bbc programme set in a faded resort (southend? blackpool?) with yvonne someone or other in it

gareth, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Why should you love him? If you love De La Soul's first album, he's got the same vibe (and the same producer). If you love dirty books by Boccacio or Henry Miller or salles histories by Feb 5 Freddy, he's got that vibe too. If you love John Donne for the way he turns the English language into a breathtaking plate-spinning act, this pint of plain's your only (bar)man.

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

that should read 'if you love a dirty book by Boccacio or Henry Miller or 'une salle histoire' by Fab 5 Freddy...'

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

But backtracking a bit above, Clarke did meet him and wasn't impressed. So go figure.

Me, I have not met him, so I can only judge the music, and it's not my cup of tea -- something about his voice, like Eminem's, not really attractive. Oh well.

Further information.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

We probably shouldn't judge artists on their personal qualities. Elton John is probably a really sweet guy.

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

We probably shouldn't judge artists on their personal qualities.

Oh, I fully agree, but if you're going to pitch Ethan to change his ways by a meeting with Mr. Paul, for instance, that muddies the issue. Though if you're just trying to persuade Ethan to change his murderous ways in general...

Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

By the way, I do not have shares in MC Paul Barman, but the cartoons on his website are funny too.

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I've always preferred rhymers to lynchers. But I know this is not a universally popular opinion.

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Did I get the Curly Wurly yet?

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I hate MC PB because people used to mistake me for him. "Oh are you PAUL BARMAN? Like" - snicker - "MC Paul Barman??" Pause. "No I'm not"

Tracer Hand, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Momus, he may have been trying to make a good impression on you because he quite understandably respects your work. My friends and I, however, caught a really snobby, ugly vibe from him. It seemed like he felt so inconvenienced for having to come down from the Capitol of the World to some stupid college in some hick state--in fact, he tried to cancel the gig that afternoon because he didn't feel like coming down, but our station manager would have none of it.

He was very smug on stage, and fairly condescending and impatient with his DJ, a very down-to-earth and talented guy (who happened to be black and Asian, so if you want to rashly accuse Barman's detractors of anti-Semitism, I will counter-accuse him of racism on the same silly grounds). Barman, I'm sure, can turn on the charm when he's with an interesting guy like you, Momus (I'm not mocking you, despite the tone of that sentence--I saw you at CMJ and was floored), but I felt like he had already written us off as uninteresting people not worth talking to.

Granted, he may have been tired, in a bad mood, mad at the guys he had been touring with--any number of things--the point is, he made a very bad impression on quite a few people here, myself included. It's completely unfair and rash of you to accuse his detractors of jealousy, and to assume their mental and creative inferiority. As I am not trying at all to be like him, I don't think it's fair to say that he throws my limitations into stark relief, either.

Clarke B., Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

comparing paul barman to john donne may be the most outre thing i've yet read on ilx.

jess, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Rave on, MC Paul Barman.

Mark, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

ethan is just another one of those indie boys that like to tell the rest of us how hip hop should be. paul barman makes me laugh and raps good.

chaki, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Good god. Barman is nothing compared to Princess Superstar, who I think actually does have a flow of some sort at least, better production, and less "look at me, I can rhyme! It's like magic!" smarm. Plus indie-gurl charm.

Sterling Clover, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

You guys are gonna scare the Momus away! Barman is one of those indie-gimmick rappers that I just can't bring myself to stop liking, despite recognizing the validity of all the points that Ethan makes against his ilk.

Dan I., Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

no way. barman is great. he's not all about "im the fucking most richest with the most women" and he's not all about "im so innovative with my rhymes and beats" which seems to be the only too schools of hiphop to choose from. (ie: jay-z/el-p, etc etc)he's like the dorky jewish friend. like paul on the wonder years, or chunk from the goonies. in fact.. i believe if paul and chunk had a child, this child would be paul barman.
in one song he asks, "What is the meaning of CLASS?/Is it a Conspiracy Leveled At Sleepy Students trying to pass?" it's an allusion to the classic line from Wu-Tang's GZA on the song "I Got Your Back": "What is the meaning of CRIME?/Is it Criminals Robbing Innocent Motherfuckers Everytime?"
when rapping about blue balls paul says: about a severe case of blue balls: "My pissed-off Jimbrowski/Turned three colors, like Krzysztof Kieslowski."
he even makes fun of his place in hiphop..on the track he did with princess superstar he disses her with: "Your talents are bite-size, it's no surprise you rhyme with white guys."

chaki, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I am pro-Paul mainly insofar as he presents an answer to the question I asked Ethan, long ago, about the range of experience that hip-hop can plausibly embrace. I've yet to see many criticisms of him that don't basically accuse him of having a big joke at hip-hop's expense, as if creating a bawdy neurotic grad-school MC persona violates unwritten hip-hop "rules" in a sense that can only be meant to be funny -- and while I'm sure plenty of his fans are amused at him for precisely that reason, as a juxtaposed gag on hip-hop, I think any serious look at him has to reveal that he's essentially just pushing at the limits of exactly what kinds of content we expect from hip-hop, what we expect to be said.

Momus' Boccacio reference is spot-on, but his De La Soul reference is not. Barman casts himself as an antihero; De La cast themselves as Everymen. Prince Paul aside, this makes for a big difference. As for Barman's flow, it has an earnest breathless quality that sometimes does it for me, sometimes not -- but hey, if I can sit through Timbaland's spottily-delivered banalities to get something out of the production, I can sit through Barman's spotty delivery to get at the (very, very) good bits.

I am completely unsurprised that Momus is pro-Barman, seeing as Barman is basically the Momus of hip-hop.

I can think of a few very interesting ways for Barman to slice up and explode the "this is just a gag on hip-hop" perception, but I doubt he'll do any of them, and probably with good reason.

Nitsuh, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Don't you think some of the disgust w/ Paul Barman comes from people who see themselves in him? Go to the ILM "battle" thread; you'll see a lot of Barman-esque rhymes, which makes sense since this board is crammed with people who come from the same educational and socioeconimc background as Barman.

I've only heard one track, the one that puts his spin on "Big Poppa," and I thought it was funny. I only heard it once, though.

Mark, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

despite recognizing the validity of all the points that Ethan makes against his ilk

Did Ethan get around to making any points, especially valid ones, on this thread? He just said he hoped Barman would rot in a ditch. Unless I missed something.

Momus, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Don't you think some of the disgust w/ Paul Barman comes from people who see themselves in him?

Not necessarily. I certainly don't; then again, I'm not disgusted with him per se.

Unspoken But Present Suspicion in this thread: that Monsieur Barman's work is 'meant' to appeal to a group of people who otherwise would ignore/not pay attention to hip-hop in general, and who likely will not explore what he is referencing/building off from. I don't hold to this point of view myself.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

people need to stop interpreting my personal taste in music as some kind of dogmatic manifesto about how hiphop should be.

ethan, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Ned -- that's precisely what I'm trying to get at with my "gag" talk. The problem is that even if you take him "seriously," he's still meant to be amusing ... meaning that if everyone's laughing, it's difficult to distinguish between who's laughing at the content and who's just laughing at the idea of that content being paired with hip-hop.

Nitsuh, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

My head hurts. I see what you're getting at, mind you, it just seems to me to be an ultimately frustrating way to create art -- and more to the point, if as Momus was saying he is wondering why people are annoyed with him, your supposition of his approach should indicate that he knows damn well why they could be.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

there's still nothing on this thread which sez to me that barman is anything other than the ray stevens of hiphop. which is fine. let's just not call a novelty anything less than a novelty.

mark, i think comparing the "wanna battle" thread to barman is sorta spot on, except for the fact that we don't go so far as to make records. for which gods should be thanked.

chaki's points sound like precisely the ones i'd use to deride barman, so there you go. and the lyrics fall straight into tom's warning about quoting "clever" and/or "deep" lyrics.

barman strikes me as a practical joke gone too far at the expense of the audience. but not far enough to make us wonder if that's the point.

jess, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

paul barman CANT be bling bling and he CANT be neo political all he CAN be is HIM. it's not a gag on anyone its just A KID RAPPING.

chaki, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

also those lyrics chaki quoted are the same three examples i've read and heard about a million times before, which weren't that great to begin with but are now the most irritating rhymes i've ever seen. if he's so clever how come i never hear about anything better than a nerdy dick joke?

ethan, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

also why is the nyu undergrad version of "clever" the gold standard? i realize that barman is a "guy" and not one of momuses entertainment puppets but that doesnt mean i have to find his personal vision (humorous or otherwise) anything less than obnoxious as hell. kinda the same way dmx songs bother my mom. wait, no, that's not right. she loves dmx.

jess, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

jess your mom is clearly not smart and creative then!

ethan, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

well, one look at me coulda told you that pal.

jess, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I liked what little I heard of Barman. Then again, I like the HAWD GANKSTUH RAPPUHS too... whose detractors make Barman detractors seem like patronizing ol' grannies in comparison.

As far as having that same background and approach to hip hop, I prefer what artists on the Slabco label have done. Land of the Loops for instance... Peter hook base lines, Coldcut/Negativland style plundering, child-like female vocals, singing sad love poetry. Subtle but ultimately very catchy too.

Brian MacDonald, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Surely the one thing that makes MCPB irrevocably a novelty act is that there is very little reason to listen to any of his tracks more than once. Once you've heard and got the gags and wordplay, you don't actually need the song anymore. The fact that he happens to be rapping this stuff, rather than just writing it down, seems to add nothing to the content. When he attempts to modulate his voice and do anything with the flow other than just deliver the lyrics he simply sounds half-assed or irritating.

I think the Donne comparison is quite a good one, actually. He should jack in the hip hop and become some sort of modern Earl of Rochester - it'd be a better use of his talents...

jacob, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Barman's one of the best rhymers on the planet, as far as I'm concerned, but note that that is not the same as "lyric constructors." And he has like ZERO flow--I get no pleasure from his voice.

Eminem's verse on Biggie's "Dead Wrong" is more or less what I think Barman could be doing if he were willing to think beyond the immediate rhyme. ("There's several different levels to devil worshippin': horses' heads, human sacrifices, cannibalism; candles and exorcism, animals, havin' sex with 'em; camels, mammals and rabbits/But I don't get into that, I kicked the habit.")

Douglas, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

i am going to eat the curly wurly myself, because i'm afraid your description didn't excite me, momus. i have a strange vision of him as being a bit like a straight al yankovic. is this true.

hmm, this curly wurly tastes loovvely

gareth, Wednesday, 30 January 2002 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...
i lied about the curly wurly

gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 17:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Took you a YEAR to fess up.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:02 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I guess a "curly wurly" isn't a pubic hair, then...

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 18:23 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
phlar

phlar, Saturday, 23 April 2005 20:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...
Whatever happened to MC Paul Barman?

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

his album was pretty good. If he put out something else I'd give it a listen.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:18 (twelve years ago) Permalink

xpost. Someone shot him for writing the line "I'm iller than the Iliad".

jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:20 (twelve years ago) Permalink

oh god, 2002 ;_;

Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:21 (twelve years ago) Permalink

The PFork review of Paullelujah was so OTM.

jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:25 (twelve years ago) Permalink

he's at the very least funnier than fucking Har Mar Superstar

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:34 (twelve years ago) Permalink

that ain't sayin' much.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:40 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I just don't get the hate - dood is harmless and occasionally funny. There are SO MANY worse "white dude appropriates black culture" musical acts out there who are painfully bad (Matisyahu anyone...?)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:50 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I couldn't really listen to his album after two spins, but I'll admit that a couple of his rhymes are permanently lodged in my brain. Like his throwaway answer - cited in an interview - to KRS-One's couplet "my English grammar comes down hard like a hammer": "My babble gavel scatters the pieces of your Travel Scrabble."

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:50 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I saw him ad-lib (er "freestyle) a bunch of "Cock Mobster" lines live once and that pretty much sold me on him. He was just taking celebrity names from the audience and coming up with filthy rhymes for each one... arrrgh I wish I could remember his Madeleine Albright line...

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:54 (twelve years ago) Permalink

The first EP had some really great Prince Paul stuff I thought.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:56 (twelve years ago) Permalink

but aside from the great Barman debate...what did happen to him? does he still do music?

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:56 (twelve years ago) Permalink

i haven't listened to pallelujah! in a while, but i thought it was pretty funny and would probably still think so.

plus also, hating him seems so silly. and i'm 4 years late with this, but ...

I think any serious look at him has to reveal that he's essentially just pushing at the limits of exactly what kinds of content we expect from hip-hop, what we expect to be said.

... nitsuh otm.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 24 March 2006 00:08 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
i was just listening to the mr. dead album 'metabolics vol 2: dawn of the dead', and paul barman appears on the track 'chemically imbalanced', which is a pretty goddamn great track until he shows up and ruins it.

gear (gear), Monday, 8 May 2006 22:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

ethan is just another one of those indie boys that like to tell the rest of us how hip hop should be. paul barman makes me laugh and raps good.

-- chaki (chak...)

^^^ CHAKI APPRECIATION THREAD

-+-+-+++- (ooo), Monday, 8 May 2006 22:28 (twelve years ago) Permalink

can't believe that i actually listened to "cock mobster" all the way through the other day.

that's so taylrr (ken taylrr), Monday, 8 May 2006 23:30 (twelve years ago) Permalink

lol @ me

city of gyros (chaki), Monday, 8 May 2006 23:56 (twelve years ago) Permalink

four years pass...

phlar

― phlar

buzza, Saturday, 29 January 2011 17:51 (seven years ago) Permalink

curly wurly!

smang a goon (get it on) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:40 (seven years ago) Permalink

had no idea he put out another album

just sayin, Sunday, 30 January 2011 12:07 (seven years ago) Permalink

seven years pass...

phlar
― phlar, Saturday, April 23, 2005 4:19 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 03:55 (one week ago) Permalink

Push Barman to Open Old Wounds

underqualified backing vocalist (morrisp), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 04:00 (one week ago) Permalink


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