there is not one album in existence that better on CD than on vinyl is there?

by the way how do you change the cart on that thing? looks like the headshell & arm are just one piece, as opposed to mine which just twists out and is connected by magnets

what do y'all think of this one

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N3S4X3P/ref=olp_aod_redir#aod

that used one for $255 seems like a good bargain

i have no experience with that one but that fellow in my steve hoffman link did: "I upgraded to at ATLP120x over the holidays from an ATLP60. I realize the 120 is by no means a "high-end" turntable, but for my needs (and system) at the moment, the 120 is a superb option. What has been so worthwhile with the 120 is that it has given me the opportunity to really discover what goes into the hobby of vinyl collection and turntable setup."

however, he then finds he needs to upgrade his stylus from the 95E to 95ML...

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/praise-for-the-at-vm95ml.938864/

frogbs I would steer clear of direct drive if you’re concerned about sound quality

I have this, it’s worked great for me except I had to mess with a potentiometer at the bottom to get the speed right.

https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/turntables/dp-300f

yea I've heard that direct drives sometimes pick up the sound of the motor but I've never actually heard this myself

tbh being unable to get my record player fixed and record shops being closed and no gigs has meant I have spent nearly nothing on music for a year.

dunno if it will last when I can actually get my record player fixed, I haven't converted to Spotify, I just play the mp3s/flacs I ripped from my record/CD collection and stuff I downloaded from my laptop plugged into the AUX of my hifi.

I like vinyl a lot, but I don't like having to deal with a broken record player, especially if getting the bastard fixed might cost me £££

I use my turntable mostly for my collection of post-punk, or for recent acquisitions from the cheap racks, and neither Pylon nor Foghat require super high fidelity to me. I use my CD player mostly for jazz and things that want lusher sonics. I just bought a thrift store copy of Linda Ronstadt’s What’s New, and even on my less than high hi-fi it sounds super nice. I already owned it on vinyl, but doubtful I will ever play that again.

TSF - is this the cart you have?

https://ttaino.shop/product/atvm95ml-dual-moving-magnet-turntable-cartridge_1209046.html?msclkid=2666ba16cf291f5e9b75da210b6166e3

it's $160+ everywhere else I look...

hold up this site has got to be a scam

one q for those of you who know things

I've heard the built in pre-amp on the AT120 (which I now have) is kinda garbage and that apparently a lot of people rip them out. I don't wanna fuck around with a soldering iron nor do I want to risk taking this thing apart but I have seen it suggested that something like the ART DJ Pre II (which is fairly cheap) can make a difference. if anyone has an external pre-amp, does it really make a noticeable improvement, or am I just chasing here? I assume I can just hook this up by switching to Line & plugging it into the Phono input on the receiver, correct?

(fwiw I think I might just pick up a micro-line stylus, which I assume would be a much bigger improvement)

or should I just assume the one on my receiver (an HK3470) is better than what I could get from a cheap external preamp?

I don't now about those specific things but I think a pre-amp can make a significant difference. I'm using a NAD PP-1 now which is very entry level and I can say it's not as good as the one in the audio interface I was using that blew some caps.

Kid a sounds better on CD than on the 10" vinyl copy I had. Same for in rainbows.

I assume I can just hook this up by switching to Line & plugging it into the Phono input on the receiver, correct?

In any case it should be easy enough now to compare the turntable’s preamp to the receiver’s so you might as well try both of those before considering an external preamp.

ditto, i would say first try it through the one in your receiver and see if you notice a difference. i don't really have much experience with external preamps, except a friend once lent me a fancy tube one and yeah it made a difference -- sorry to see it go. just a guess, but if you're looking to upgrade i would think the cartridge would make more of a difference that the preamp.

this is the cart i have: https://www.turntableneedles.com/AT-VM95ML_Cartridge_Authorized_Dealer

though it occurs to me....with your new turntable, you might already have an AT-VM95 series cartridge. in which case to upgrade to an ML you'd just need to replace the stylus, not the whole cartridge. it's not that much less, cost-wise, but it's just a pop-in replacement.

https://www.turntableneedles.com/AT-VMN95ML_Genuine_audio-technica_Stylus_for_AT-VM95ML_AT-VM95_series

Kid a sounds better on CD than on the 10" vinyl copy I had. Same for in rainbows.

― candyman

From the ones I own on both formats The Bends, OKC and IR sound better on CD to my ears. Kid A sounds way better in vinyl for me, though.

I haven’t heard HTTT on vinyl but I’m not a fan of how it sounds in digital or CD. I’ve heard people praising the difference on that one in particular.

xp yeah I'm gonna see if I can borrow one first. I know this shit is a hassle but honestly it's quite fun to doink around with. I think I will be getting one of those VM95MLs though. I saw a YouTube video comparing it to the 95E (which I have) and there is a huge difference in some of the inner grooves. Granted I think this is up to the mastering - some of my LPs have IGD, a lot of them don't (or just have it in the last 20-30 seconds), but still, eliminating that would be a dream

yeah my turntable is basically undoink-with-able -- it's made to basically plug and play. i like that, yet the other half of me is a doinker who wants to tune the thing to perfection. when i "grow up," i've been eyeing this schiit turntable that is the polar opposite of mine. it's made for doinkers. you can adjust everything humanly possible. https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-sol-turntable?qt-related_posts=1

I'm starting to become like that, though I don't really know what I'm doing I am slowly learning. its kind of funny how vinyl sort of tunes you in to all these little imperfections - several times I've thought either the record or needle was dirty or something was misaligned but when I've compared to an MP3 version that I've listened to for years it turns out it actually does sound like that. so I guess I'm developing a keener ear. but that sorta drives you nuts.

not the worst way to get started with soldering, but (after reading about the issue even with the preamp supposedly turned off), what an impressive pain in the ass! Mess around a while between the built-in and your receiver before voidingnthe warranty tho i guess.

i found this article on the AT LP-120. why is everyone removing the internal preamp? i don't get that -- isn't there a way to just bypass it?
anyway, he says the first upgrade should be the stylus/cartridge, not the preamp. https://vinylrestart.com/best-phono-preamp-for-at-lp120/

Something something signal path

Agree that it can't be such a big thing

anyway, what makes the journey all worth it, in my experience anyway, is when i'm listening to my records i sort of can't believe how great they sound.

yeah after a decade-plus of listening to nothing but 192 kbps MP3s it's really opened my eyes

tbf the moment of reckoning was a couple years ago with a CD - there was a certain one I had to buy because I couldn't find it online, anywhere. I popped it in the car stereo and a number of times thought "holy shit, this sounds awesome", then realizing that it must be because for once I was listening to an actual CD

Xpost maybethe kid a 12" vinyl, but not the 10" edition. And the American vinyl of rainbows sounded too loud.

In Rainbows is an interesting example for this thread. The double vinyl, 45rpm version I've seen singled out many times as the paragon of vinyl sound quality for a release this century. The more common single LP, yeah kinda sounds shit.

I'm never sure about getting newer (music made this century basically) albums on vinyl. Doesnt seem worth it anymore. You never know what the pressing will be like. Theres the price too obv. But I've come to accept that.

i hear lots of people complaining about modern pressings. maybe i've been walking between the raindrops but i've had the opposite experience -- most of them sound great to me. if they're not analog-sourced they typically use very high resolution digital as masters, they tend not to overcompress the masters, pressings are quiet, etc. plus since peoples' home systems are somewhat "tuned" to their own preferences, things just sound better on them. i guess having a cd-length album split among 4 LP sides can be a drag, but cds are too long and you can make believe each disk is its own LP. their prices are commensurate with what they used to cost. in 1973 (i'm old) i remember paying $3.33 for jethro tull's 'passion play' which though 'on sale' was 33 cents more than i was used to paying for new lps but i did it because i had tickets to see them at nassau coliseum and i wanted to be familiar with their new album. an inflation calculator tells me that would be $26.42 today.

(though in the same store i also got the stooges 1st record off the three-for-a-dollar rack. i think i also got tiny tim's 2nd record and a david frye comedy album to round it out.)

yeah I think Discogs can give you the impression that there are way more bad pressings out there than there actually are. everyone who gets one complaints about it on there and honestly I think a lot of times it's not actually the pressing that's bad - like, I've gotten new records that were full of static and I didn't realize how badly that can effect the replay. also people often use different stereos for their turntable so they're not really comparing them properly - I've had pressings that I thought were bad, only to realize the digital version distorts in the same way. playing music on a decent setup can reveal things you wouldn't hear on headphones or car speakers. often when I think something is bad it's generally a record that wasn't produced very well in the first place. the only 'bad' pressing I've gotten is a 10" record that glows in the dark and probably wasn't really meant to be played anyway

a 10" record that glows in the dark

lol ok what is this

Nature Tapes by Lemon Demon

Definitely different turntables and - more significantly - different stylus profiles can have a huge effect on how they handle imperfect vinyl - I’m using a Technics EPC-310MC at the moment and it is brilliant at digging detail out of records I thought were pretty played-out - but can be very unforgiving of scratches. I have a second TT with a moderately good AT stylus that gets used for cheap and cheerful dollar bin purchases.

So anyway totally agree that it’s hard to have an objective POV about the quality of a pressing.

Having said that I’ve had non-fill (“ripping” sound) in a bunch of contemporary pressings and only one or two vintage LPs, and that’s totally a QC issue.

This is a gross thing to say but I don’t think paper inner sleeves are great for vinyl, often they are glued in with static and can abrade the surface during shipping. On the rare occasions that I’ve bought contemporary records that are stored in a plastic inner they are always in much better condition.

It’s pretty hard to strongly advocate for more plastic use, but then again it’s pretty hard to defend vinyl fandom on environmental grounds anyway.

people on discogs often post reviews like maniacs.

i imagine a warehouse at amazon filled with returned vinyl because people thought it was a bad pressing.

Amazon does ship their vinyl pretty carelessly sometimes. I've heard a few horror stories. luckily I've been fine with the few I've gotten from there but it's weird, you either get it in a really thin cardboard package that could easily blow away or a gigantic box that makes you think you accidentally ordered a table saw

agreed re: the plastic inner sleeves....those thin white paper ones with the hole for the label are probably fine, but the thicker & glossier ones do seem to scuff up the records - nothing that should affect playback, but still, you can get like 300 plastic inner sleeves for the cost of one new record so you might as well. if nothing else they seem to be good at keeping the static away.

just got an 80s vertigo cd of ride the lightning in the mail, it’s kickin ass alright

I should say I have the most recent CD of kill em all and that sounds great too!

ha yeh I would have to say re the og thread premise that the burden of proof is very much on vinyl to sound better than the CD, rather than the other way round

hey TSF - I upgraded to the 95ML on your recommendation. you were right. IGD is pretty much completely gone. first LP I tested it on was Tormato by Yes because the final track on Side A ("Release, Release") had it particularly bad. now I don't even notice it. the record also sounds more crisp - no pops or clicks (though I can't remember how noisy it was before? I mean this is a $1.99 Goodwill record, otoh it's Tormato so who knows how much the original owner played it). almost kicking myself for not getting this sooner. thanks for the recommendation!!

also was very nice that I already had a perfectly aligned AT cart that came with the turntable, just pop it in and go

alright, just gave this the ultimate test: Todd Rundgren's A Wizard, A True Star (as you know he's getting polled right now). it's a 56 minute LP with some pretty loud & crazy stuff going on at the end of both sides, so it kind of sounds like garbage on vinyl. with this stylus it's pretty much as good as the CD, none of the blowouts & sharp sibilance that it had before. easily the best "upgrade" I've ever made to my system.

hey great it worked out for you, frogbs. enjoy the listening!