there is not one album in existence that better on CD than on vinyl is there?

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lets be honest now.

rock, Friday, 6 May 2005 12:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Swap "CD" with "vinyl" and you are perfectly OTM

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 6 May 2005 12:42 (fifteen years ago) link

Cecil Taylor's Air Above Mountains CD contains about 30 more minutes of music than the vinyl version.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Friday, 6 May 2005 12:57 (fifteen years ago) link

Minutemen's Double Nickels on the Dime has two more songs on vinyl. The Cure's Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me has one more on vinyl, although this will probably be rectified soon with the upcoming reissue.
It's my opinion that colored vinyl pressings, especially the see-through colors, don't sound very good.
Also, alot of modern-day pressings are done way too cheaply, and as a result sound crappy. I remember a particular run of Beatles reissues that were so thin, you could actually see a lamp from across the room if you held the record up in front of your face.

Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Friday, 6 May 2005 13:39 (fifteen years ago) link

i'm so glad i got to see that clip twice in one morning, especially a morning when i woke up so early.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Friday, 6 May 2005 13:46 (fifteen years ago) link

I've heard some shit-ay digital-to-vinyl pressings. I read somebody laughing about the absurdity of recording something digitally and then transferring to vinyl but hell if I know if he's right. I just know I've heard some muffled, crappy records in the last five years or so that sound find on CD.

miccio (miccio), Friday, 6 May 2005 13:48 (fifteen years ago) link

sound fine

miccio (miccio), Friday, 6 May 2005 13:48 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, I don't know how much digital recording has to do with crappy sounding modern records. I do know, though that most vinyl is pressed from a digital source these days, though. Most pressings are done off a DAT tape or mastered cd. I'm not up on the particulars, but it's a bit more expensive to get a record done 100% analog anymore.

Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:01 (fifteen years ago) link

Sorry, but I couldn't agree less. To my ears, nothing sounds better than a compact disc mastered with loving care from the original tapes - particularly if it documents music recorded before, say, 1981 or so. The fact that so many record companies cynically cut corners and make no effort to achieve best results (until ten years later when they give us a Brand! New! Re-mastered w/bonus tracks edition) is irrelevent: the problem is with the people involved, not the technology itself.

(But really, there's no right or wrong answer, is there? It's a matter of personal preference - no two people have the same set of fingerprints, so why shouldn't the same rule apply to their ears? I personally like a lot of brightness. If you don't, fine.)

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:09 (fifteen years ago) link

Any single LP that lasts more than 50 minutes sounds way better on CD than vinyl. Almost all vinyl LPs of greater than 45' or so sound generally thin & lacking in bass (and overall dynamic range). Two good examples: Todd Rundgren "A Wizard A True Star"; Pulp "Different Class".

harveyw (harveyw), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:11 (fifteen years ago) link

...and elvis costello's 4th record

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:19 (fifteen years ago) link

There is no technical reason whatsoever why CDs should sound worse than vinyl. The reason why some CD reissues (especially from the early nineties) sound worse than the originals is because they were badly mastered, that's all. Also, vinyls wear down easier than CDs - don't claim those cracks and pops add to the sound! And there's other kinds of wearage too - I have some sixties and seventies vinyls where the high-end sounds are quite distorted and screechy. The only reason I still have a vinyl player is because I have several LPs that haven't had a (decent) CD reissue, or the reissue is impossible to find.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:39 (fifteen years ago) link

Only one example leaps immediately to mind:

http://home.eol.ca/~ifftay/reviews/lamflost.jpg

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:42 (fifteen years ago) link

(that's an examploe of an album in existence that better on CD than on vinyl btw)

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:42 (fifteen years ago) link

(that's an example of an album that sounds better on CD than on vinyl btw)

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:43 (fifteen years ago) link

Bollocks.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 6 May 2005 14:56 (fifteen years ago) link

A CD re-mastered properly using clean, original tapes >>>>>>>> any vinyl copy of the same album

Amateurist OTM about Get Happy

Keith C (kcraw916), Friday, 6 May 2005 15:19 (fifteen years ago) link

eight years pass...

80s CDs still sound like shit.

brimstead, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 18:51 (six years ago) link

That post is about people, not cds vs vinyl. I can't help it if dumb wannabe hipsters keep fucking up the debate by being all "vinyl is better"

brimstead, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 18:55 (six years ago) link

"There is no technical reason whatsoever why CDs should sound worse than vinyl. The reason why some CD reissues (especially from the early nineties) sound worse than the originals is because they were badly mastered, that's all. Also, vinyls wear down easier than CDs - don't claim those cracks and pops add to the sound! And there's other kinds of wearage too - I have some sixties and seventies vinyls where the high-end sounds are quite distorted and screechy. The only reason I still have a vinyl player is because I have several LPs that haven't had a (decent) CD reissue, or the reissue is impossible to find.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, May 6, 2005 2:39 PM (8 years ago)
"

o t m

like the article.

mark e, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 19:05 (six years ago) link

A tangentially ignorant and irritating argument is people who elevate dj's who use vinyl over those who use laptops / software. It has absolutely nothing to do with what format is played and everything to do with how they're sequenced and mixed.

brotherlovesdub, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 19:33 (six years ago) link

on Vinyl vs. CD: From 2001-2010, every CD I bought got ripped and stored immediately. I burned copies to take in the car so the originals didn't get scuffed or stolen. I stopped buying CD's 3 years ago (other than artists I collect) and haven't pulled them out from storage since then. I buy vinyl now exclusively. Most new releases come with download codes and I enjoy the aesthetics more than CD's. When I'm playing mp3s, I tend to be antsy and want to skip around and search for the next song. When I put on an LP, i'm content to let the side play. My preference has nothing to do with sound quality. It's purely an aesthetic and experiential preference.

brotherlovesdub, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 19:42 (six years ago) link

new vinyl nowadays is fucking ripoff, reminds me of CDs' heyday when places charged $18.99 for an album, except it's much worse now. $25, $35, sometimes $40 for a vinyl album, who can afford to pay that and actually collect a reasonable amount of music?

honestly i've never been even remotely enough of an audiophile to feel like i can distinguish between reasonable-quality mp3s, cds and vinyl. vinyl i like for the artwork, cds so i can play them in my car, and mp3s since they're so portable.

marcos, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 20:03 (six years ago) link

Great piece. The one major advantage to vinyl, though, is that it can be listened to without electricity. So after solar flares destroy all the electrical grids, we can theoretically fashion a needle/speaker out of a paper cone and keep groovin'.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 21:16 (six years ago) link

marcos otm re: new vinyl being a ripoff, especially since current pressings are a crapshoot. The handful of new releases I bought on vinyl over the last two years have each had problems (off-center, sibilance, inner-groove distortion) that none of my old records have.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 21:18 (six years ago) link

yep modern vinyl quality issues are putting me off as well, although I still like all of the aesthetic/experiential aspects. I have definitely been buying more stuff on CD lately.

sleeve, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 21:22 (six years ago) link

new vinyl nowadays is fucking ripoff, reminds me of CDs' heyday when places charged $18.99 for an album, except it's much worse now. $25, $35, sometimes $40 for a vinyl album, who can afford to pay that and actually collect a reasonable amount of music?

otmfm. I definitely would've bought MBV vinyl for $25 but yeah $45 for a single album?

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 21:52 (six years ago) link

there is not one album in existence that better on CD than on vinyl is there?

Zoviet France - Shadow, Thief Of The Sun
no vinyl issue - stick it on vinyl, even crap nu-vinyl mind you (if you must...), and I'm there

on the other hand, I was in Rough Trade NYC recently (impressed!) and had little to no interest in the new nu-vinyl there, but picked up a bunch of used OG vinyl at Academy up the road.

Paul, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 22:42 (six years ago) link

got a new CD player for christmas. i have so many CDs!
though i do listen to old vinyl too, just depends on what's around.

tylerw, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 22:45 (six years ago) link

god Shadow, Thief Of The Sun is so good, even if it is essentially a Rapoon album

sleeve, Tuesday, 31 December 2013 22:46 (six years ago) link

otmfm. I definitely would've bought MBV vinyl for $25 but yeah $45 for a single album?

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Neil Young make me IA in this regard. He goes on and on about the superiority of vinyl and analogue yadda yadda yadda and then charges $90 for his new record (which, granted, is a triple, but still). At that price, he's essentially promoting digital.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 31 December 2013 23:02 (six years ago) link

The last CD I bought specifically for its CDness was Jim O'Rourke's The Visitor because it was designed to be one uninterrupted track.

The 70s Miles live records work well on CD in this regard I would say.

"Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 1 January 2014 00:13 (six years ago) link

otmfm. I definitely would've bought MBV vinyl for $25 but yeah $45 for a single album?

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Neil Young make me IA in this regard. He goes on and on about the superiority of vinyl and analogue yadda yadda yadda and then charges $90 for his new record (which, granted, is a triple, but still). At that price, he's essentially promoting digital PONO.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, December 31, 2013 5:02 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fixed

Maintenance Engineer of Foolhardiness (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 1 January 2014 00:20 (six years ago) link

as if someone is holding a layer of net curtain between the speakers and my ears, which takes away clarity and space, stops me fully getting a hold on individual sonic detail

see i just dont get this. i feel like you need a better turntable or somethine

just sayin, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 03:56 (six years ago) link

*g

just sayin, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 03:56 (six years ago) link

Music For 18 Musicians - like it, never had it, want it
for years, split across 2 sides of vinyl - along comes the CD, problem solved.

I'm thinking of picking up the vinyl (RECORD!) someday. hell, might even get the CD too after all.

Paul, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 05:31 (six years ago) link

look, you can't say vinyl sound is not a thing, because even within vinyl sound is a thing!

Paul, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 05:34 (six years ago) link

when 2 diff pressings of the same tune have a comparative relative oomph factor of 100x, guess which one the CD sounds more like...

Paul, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 05:37 (six years ago) link

still like buying new albums on vinyl but the diff in sound quality is never as superior on vinyl as i might hope - e.g. random access memories never sounded as good as an album with that much of an analogue fetish should have done. most modern albums prob sound best on cd really... other times, cds can highlight that sound quality or great fidelity/detail/whatever isnt all that important for a lot of releases, esp big pop stuff. vinyl is basically best for music recorded before around 1999. though saying that, some lo fi music like grime etc benefits weirdly from vinyl as it gives its sonic crudeness/rawness something a little warmer.

StillAdvance, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 11:44 (six years ago) link

also, the prices of new vinyl are appalling!

StillAdvance, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 11:44 (six years ago) link

Not really, that's what vinyl cost in 1963 in comparative terms.

Mark G, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 11:47 (six years ago) link

I prefer a room littered with vinyl to a room littered with CDs. when I kick over a stack of CDs, I swear; several of them break. They can't be put back together. I can kick an LP in its sleeve across the room and I'll maybe bend the corner, no big deal. New vinyl I buy will be playable forever; most of the CDs will become unplayable because of my hobby of kicking over stacks of CDs and taking penalty kicks at the stereo with them. I know the ref from school so I get to take a lot of penalty kicks. I still buy CDs because I just buy music, period, it's a thing I do, but I prefer buying vinyl because it complains less when I mistreat it and is more fun to play with and handle and dote over and apologize to. Sorry for kicking you across the room I was hoping to break another CD case with you. I will kick Fleetwood Mac next time.

combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 1 January 2014 14:45 (six years ago) link

Longer albums definitely seem to the main case for the usefulness of CDs, but the purely digital formats sort of blow that out of the water. Like there was that Flaming Lips 6-hour song that came out last year. CD is digital anyways, so you may as well just ditch the plastic and get some lossless files or something.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 January 2014 14:51 (six years ago) link

six years pass...

anybody changed their mind on this one way or another?

i still don't prefer vinyl to cd but I got a Skevono cheap player mostly cos I decided I wanted to play some of the records I acquired for collection purposes (not to sell, just to have cos of nice design).

i'm no audiophile, and I'm mostly digital listening these days.

I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Saturday, 27 June 2020 20:15 (two weeks ago) link

Vinyl looks better framed on the wall.
CDs easier to rip.

Siegbran, Saturday, 27 June 2020 20:18 (two weeks ago) link

most of my vinyl is just for "hey cool fun, I have this and if I ever see this band again 20 years from now when the pandemic ends, it'd be neat to get autographed". i play them now and then though.

I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Saturday, 27 June 2020 20:19 (two weeks ago) link

A lot of things sound better on vinyl. I would favour CDs for music with a very dynamic range or a lot of high frequencies (virtually all classical music or electroacoustic music), or that was created digitally in the first place.

Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Saturday, 27 June 2020 20:38 (two weeks ago) link

Xp I prefer a room littered with vinyl to a room littered with CDs. when I kick over a stack of CDs, I swear; several of them break. They can't be put back together. I can kick an LP in its sleeve across the room and I'll maybe bend the corner, no big deal.

Yeah, CDs were actually pretty great- compact and portable, great sound, easy to jump from track to track. The problem with CDs imo was those plastic jewel cases. They're unnecessarily bulky. They're fragile and always break. CDs would be a lot more desirable to collectors now if they'd been packaged in mini paper LP sleeves like those posh Japanese reissues. There's a reason those ugly CD storage booklets were such a hit.

Countless records are better on CD. There are albums with lots of high end detail in the mix. There are albums that were sequenced with the CD format in mind etc

Deflatormouse, Saturday, 27 June 2020 20:55 (two weeks ago) link

that was created digitally in the first place.

Exactly

Deflatormouse, Saturday, 27 June 2020 20:57 (two weeks ago) link

The remastered CD of New Tradionalists by Devo sounds way better than the original vinyl, which was made from a compromised master tape.

"...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 27 June 2020 21:01 (two weeks ago) link

my post in this thread from 2013 still stands up.
sorry, i get the emotional connection and all that, but i have no love for vinyl.

mark e, Saturday, 27 June 2020 21:08 (two weeks ago) link

Yeah lots of stuff sounds better on vinyl, and there are still some excellent vinyl masters and pressenings like the recent-ish INA GRM reissues on Editions Mego. But for the most part new vinyl is the naked emperor in the room.

The smart collectors are buying up CDs while they're "junk" imo.

Deflatormouse, Saturday, 27 June 2020 21:11 (two weeks ago) link

I broke so many cds that before the legit digital explosion I rebought the same album as much as three times

I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Saturday, 27 June 2020 21:17 (two weeks ago) link

I've owned thousands of CDs and never broke one. What are you doing with them?

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 28 June 2020 03:36 (one week ago) link

Nuh uh, i ain't tellin YOU, cop!

I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Sunday, 28 June 2020 03:51 (one week ago) link

Twice in my life I have felt the giddy terror of bending a CD in one hand until the edges touch, then waiting for the splintering sound before it explodes into shards. But they crack at the hub way too easily.

assert (MatthewK), Sunday, 28 June 2020 04:03 (one week ago) link

As an artifact, no.

For sound quality, convenience, durability, space (re: small apartments), affordability (re: modern LP reissues), re: not having pops/warp/dust, not having to stop in the middle and turn it over... Most any album can be better on CD.

Soundslike, Sunday, 28 June 2020 04:24 (one week ago) link

was pretty ardently pro-CD until recently, still feel a well-mastered CD on an okay or better system thru a decent CD player is pretty unbeatable

a couple of years ago decided I wanted to listen to my old LPs again so have been on a journey of trying to get them sounding as good as vinyl aficionados claim is possible

admittedly a lot of my vinyl gear is the spoils of being an accomplished rat scavenger at flea markets etc, but I reckon I've only just got to the point where I feel it's even close

my tentative conclusion is that you'd need to spend a whole lot more money getting a decent vinyl system together than a CD system of similar quality? like, maybe a $5k dynavector cart would blow my fkn socks off, but I'm unlikely to ever find out

all that said I really enjoy the hobbyist aspects of vinyl - crate-digging, cleaning, having the occasional market stall - plus trying new TTs and carts

there are a few albums and 12"s that do sound incontrovertibly better to me on wax - but is that simply because the CD masters sucked?

apropos of nothing, since I started listening with a critical ear for SQ and comparing formats, I'm noticing that a lot of imperfections are actually baked into the source recording and some records are gonna sound a bit rough on any format (not just low fi punk records or whatever)

umsworth (emsworth), Sunday, 28 June 2020 05:12 (one week ago) link

I've owned thousands of CDs and never broke one. What are you doing with them?

― Gerald McBoing-Boing,

Seconding this ^^^ I also have thousands of them and can't understand how you can break them unless you're incredibly clumsy.

I'm agnostic on jewel cases, but one advantage of them is that you can completely replace the case if it cracks, breaks etc.

Duke, Sunday, 28 June 2020 11:37 (one week ago) link

This is the only CD that's ever fully broken on me. Not unusual for this design. I ripped it in about 2005 but I can't find the files...

https://img.discogs.com/gSWK7TqWXpgxMu48NbZCWymqc60=/fit-in/600x528/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-648-1197113402.jpeg.jpg

Michael Jones, Sunday, 28 June 2020 13:09 (one week ago) link

o yah those are infamous for actually breaking

sleeve, Sunday, 28 June 2020 15:25 (one week ago) link

All the metal case CR albums would eventually crack the CD because the case center was made of stronger stuff than the plastic

sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Sunday, 28 June 2020 15:32 (one week ago) link

since I started listening with a critical ear for SQ and comparing formats, I'm noticing that a lot of imperfections are actually baked into the source recording

In the early days of the format there was some standard text on just about all CDs that passively aggressively reminded the consumer of this.

Noel Emits, Sunday, 28 June 2020 15:41 (one week ago) link

Nice thing about CDs these days if you have a computer and an optical drive is you can get high end digital to analog conversion from prosumer audio interfaces not costing much more than £100.

Noel Emits, Sunday, 28 June 2020 15:45 (one week ago) link

see also: Dragonfly

sleeve, Sunday, 28 June 2020 15:45 (one week ago) link

Nice thing about CDs these days if you have a computer and an optical drive is you can get high end digital to analog conversion from prosumer audio interfaces not costing much more than £100.

Oh, this is def what I do with CDs (or decent digital files, which I mostly put in a similar category). But I just use a Pro-Ject Essentials II turntable for home listening. It cost much much less than $5k and sounds v good to me. A lot of folk, jazz, and old rock is very satisfying with the vinyl warmth imo. I really like Band of Gypsys in that format, for example. Some recent LPs that sound good to me are Sarah Louise's Field Guide, Battle Trance's Blade of Love (I have it in HQ digital and LP and sometimes enjoy the warmth of the LP), Sonoluminescence Trio + 1 - Live at the Record Centre.

Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Sunday, 28 June 2020 15:52 (one week ago) link

I think Swan's The Seer is better digital, it's just entirely too long for vinyl, and changing the records is a pain.

akm, Sunday, 28 June 2020 16:11 (one week ago) link

very otm, I can't stand it when long tracks are split on vinyl

sleeve, Sunday, 28 June 2020 16:11 (one week ago) link

A lot of it depends on how good your vinyl setup (which requires TT, cartridge, and phonostage) v your CD player.

Tōne Locatelli Romano (PBKR), Sunday, 28 June 2020 21:47 (one week ago) link


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