In Praise Of : New Order's 'Movement'

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A staggering feat of emotional intensity and sonic experimentation, New Order’s first long-player is simply their best album and Martin Hannett’s one true 40 minutes of production genius. No-one else has done what they did here, and not even the band themselves have followed up on the myriad ideas they and Hannett left hanging. I have no time for those who say that Movement is a grim trawl through the remnants of their time as Joy Division. It’s definitely a similarly intense experience as Closer, but the sense of a struggle to move forward gives the album its character and impact. Today we see the band in a blurred snapshot of what might have been. Crucially though, what might have been if they had moved in any one of the hundred or so directions that this record hints at, not what might have been if they had remained as Joy Division.

Side 1. Straight in then – ‘Dreams Never End’, an out-of-character Trojan horse of an opener. A careful, studied intro with Steve’s bass drum punctuation gives way to a bright guitar and 6-string bass figure, promising a brisk ‘Ceremony’ –type feel for the album. Definitely out of character, but still a magnificent track. And Hooky sings! Fragments of his double-tracked vocals hint at something darker in store – “A savage murder begun”.

‘Truth’– filtered drum machine, simple bass, string synth and melodica weave a choppy backdrop for Barney’s hesitant vocal – “A strange day/such a strange day”) The chorus is wordless, a sheet of distorted guitar (Gillian? She used to play this part onstage) and a tattoo of distant toms. The whole effect is a stark, unblinking monochrome layer, ending with Hannett’s industrial whistling grind (A ‘Factory’?). The track fades with drum machines locked in a grim call and response.

‘Senses’. More wild experimentation from Hannett – treated synth and percussion, brittle, panned toms and a strange robo-voice which seems to be semi-speaking ‘Ian Curtis, Ian Curtis…’ This gives way to a one-string semi-funk guitar and hissing phased cymbals. Everything is out of balance, with the percussion right in the foreground and the rhythm guitar in the far distance. Hannett keeps the bass drum steady and loud, but swirls all the other percussion sounds in and out around Barney’s mournful vocal (‘No reason ever was given’). Finally the song seems to gather itself and come into focus for a final coda with added synth.

‘Chosen Time’ Disco drums reminiscent of the Macclesfield motorik of ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ (the ‘B’ side version). A more conventional structure at first with a (synth?) bass pulse and tense, chattering guitars race into the imploring chorus – “Believe me/All I said to you”. You get the sense that everyone is trying something new with their instruments, trying to play slightly out of character, and it’s absolutely magnificent. Soon locust-like sounds swarm into the mix with rustling syn-drums, swamping the track as it ends in mid-bar.

Side 2. ‘ICB’ (Ian Curtis Buried?, I Can Begin? – actually ICB is the name of a drum- synth.) Steve’s back to the pattering tom-toms and trademark hooting syn-drums. Quite a different arrangement from the Peel session, here everything is staccato, with only the bass providing forward motion. Barney sounds more confident, and the lyrics are brilliant – “line of force from heaven/a tear in a stranger’s eye”. The drums are again the lead instrument, until Hooky’s bassline returns and the song explodes into electronic orbit.

‘The Him’ – more careful panning toms, a filtered melodica, a moaning string synth and Hooky’s mournful bass. “Some days you waste your life away”. Everything is held at a distance until the snare breaks into the first, wordless chorus. The breakdown into a synth drone before the release of the final, repeated chorus (‘I’m so tired/I’m so tired”) is a masterstroke.

‘Doubts Even Here’ – the heart of the album and one of the three best tracks New Order have done. The drum machine returns for the intro, ushering in an utterly beautiful, doomy synth, which Hannett wisely doesn’t submerge in effects. Hooky’s back on vocals and his voice really suits the song. His lead-bass is also terrific – a hint of the his glory days to come - and the bells and muffled thunderclaps are reminiscent of ‘In A Lonely Place’ . The lyrics signal unrequited love, loss and frailty : “Those steps which seem to take a lifetime/when eyes just turn and stare/the day begins, collapsing without warning/you fade from sight there’s no-one there”. Gillian joins with spoken, muffled commentary underneath Hooky’s coda : “Reveal to me/all that I need to know/now” and an ominous “Don’t throw our joy away”. Simply brilliant, and almost too much to take.

‘Denial’ ends one of the most moving sides in rock. An exhausted ‘What Goes On’ guitar and twin synths envelope Barney so that few fragments of lyrics escape : “The answer’s not there/it comes and goes/it frightens me”. A second guitar may join just before the ‘Inside My Soul’ line, but it may just as well be another illusion created by Hannett’s sleight of hand.

So that’s it - as the needle lifts from the vinyl I’m struck by just how much there is to say about this album, just how much still needs to be worked through and understood 24 years on. It sounded colossal and ‘other’ in 1981 and it sounds the same in 2005. Still brutal, still the new music.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 25 April 2005 14:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

:-D

More thoughts on this later, but watching Tavas Shevchenko for the first time recently brought so much that was on this album to new life for me.

Dan to thread immediately.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:05 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Hm. I agree that the Tavas Shevchenko gig was spectacular, sending me back to "Movement," ("Senses" is my fave) but it's not a New Order album: it's watered-down Joy Division. I'd still rather hear "Ceremony" or, better, the 1981-1982 ep. And I'd rather hear Barney write and sing romantic doggerel than doomy doggerel (thanks to Xgau for that phrase).

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:09 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Movement tracks on Taras Chevchenko >>>> Movement tracks on Movement. If anything, hearing the songs live makes me realize how utterly lifeless the album is.

But yeah, praise thread so I'll stop my complaints here.

The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:09 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

**but it's not a New Order album: it's watered-down Joy Division**

No!

Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I'll stop the hate. They never recorded a bad album until "Republic" (which I loved in '93). When watching the Tavas Shevchenko gig I thought, "What other band sounded like this in 1981?" I imagined myself in the crowd and being blown away.

Greil Marcus did a write-up for an '81 concert in "In the Fascist Bathroom" that nails exactly how NO stood in relation to their past and what their music suggested for the future.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:17 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

‘Doubts Even Here’ – the heart of the album and one of the three best tracks New Order have done.

Yeah, I'd agree. It's a stunner. Damn, I want to have the album to hear today!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:19 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

It's my favourite New Order album. But I say that as someone who likes Joy Division a lot more than New Order. Chosen Time is a lot more dancey than anything JD ever did, and Movement is not exactly watered down JD. But Sumner does put on a faux-Curtis vocal on this album and comes up with a lot of faux-Curtis lyrics (only not as good). It's good but it's transitional, they're definitely struggling under the shadow of Ian Curtis.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Also my favourite New Order album. Who cares if the vocals echo a certain departed someone--the music is great. Honestly, I like a lot of it better than Joy Division (though I'd rank JD as maybe my 40th or 50th post-punk band). Put "Chosen Time" on my 1981 mix, and numerous people have commented that it blew them away--at least a couple thought they'd never heard it before till they realised it was on 'Movement,' making me thing that the anti-hype about the album has precluded some from really hearing it.

I.M. (I.M.), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

'Doubts Even Here' is also fantastic, obv.

I.M. (I.M.), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:42 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i agree that it's the richest and most exciting of all new order albums. and my fave by them. but i think it would be silly to say that it is not an ian curtis memorial album. the lyrics of most songs seem to deal with the void left after curtis suicide. they are a band in transition on this one. but this transition is much denser and deeper than anything else the electronic dance combo n.o. has given us after. like other posters i prefer joy div any day to new order and that definitely is the main reason that i like movement so much.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:48 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

"The Him" is such a stunning song, the way it shifts between tranquility and freneticism and PARTICULARLY the held note that lasts what, 32 beats? BRILLIANT.

Reading the opening post to this thread almost made me do a little chair dance. Then I thought about "Senses" and I did do a little chair dance.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 25 April 2005 15:59 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I've only heard 5/8ths of this album but I already thought beforehand that I'd love it more than Closer and Unknown Pleasures. Nonetheless, great summary, Dr. C!

I saw Taras Schevchenko last year and thought the music was nice but the band wasn't much to look at despite their intense circles, although it's always nice when someone doesn't posture and just plays.

Ian Riese-Moraine has a grenade, that pineapple's not just a toy! (Eastern Mantr, Monday, 25 April 2005 16:08 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

senses really sounds like a track from matt johnson's dark debut burning blue soul. which was in released in august whereas movement came out in november of 81. synchronicity?

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:15 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

NO are one of the few bands to make something out of ecstasy and joy (why I prefer them to Joy Divsion, despite much love), That's why "Movement" is very touching in that respect: a band struggling to find its voice.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:16 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

New Order’s first long-player is simply their best album and Martin Hannett’s one true 40 minutes of production genius.

"Unknown Pleasures" wasn't 40 minutes of production genius?

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:22 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

it's very cool to see this record get the respect it deserves, and an awesome write up.

Lee F# (fsharp), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I'm also quite surprised by the love. Despite all my carping, I can't wait to get home and listen to it.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The excellent review makes me want to listen to it again, but it's always been my least favorite JD/NO release. The music just before and after it has always seemed light years better.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

And here all these years I thought I was the rare NO fan who top-rated this album. Cheers!

m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:35 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Two more full albums of exceptional Hannett:
Closer
Bummed

wtin, Monday, 25 April 2005 16:35 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

And here all these years I thought I was the rare NO fan who top-rated this album.

Several ILM regulars have been very vocal about "Movement" being their fave NO album!

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:38 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

it should be mentioned that the drumming by steve morris is really quite magnificent and rather prominent in the mix. when new order seriously started with drum machines they were more or less lost for me as an album band.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

But even on "Movement" Steve mixes the syn-drums with the real shit. Regardless, he's almost as good a programmer as he is a drummer.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

he's almost as good a programmer as he is a drummer
fortunately only almost. i don't want to imagine if he'd be better as a programmer.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:54 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

"i don't want to imagine if he'd be better as a programmer"

"Blue Monday"? "Confusion"?

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 25 April 2005 16:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

not so keen on those. i meant that if there had been only drum machines on movement i wouldn't have liked it as much as i do.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Several ILM regulars have been very vocal about "Movement" being their fave NO album!

Most of us are on this thread!

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

But Sumner does put on a faux-Curtis vocal on this album and comes up with a lot of faux-Curtis lyrics (only not as good). It's good but it's transitional, they're definitely struggling under the shadow of Ian Curtis.

I would imagine that Sumner felt a lot of pressure to emulate Curtis.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:36 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Most of Bernard's undeniable charm 20+ years later is that he still sings and writes like a replacement. And he's got no ego, God bless'em.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Ah, I see my patience and gentle reminders have in fact paid off! Thanks Dr. C! Spendid writeup! :)

Movement is not just my favourite New Order album but my favourite album of all time. It took several plays for me to really connect with it, though and even then I didn't realize just how strongly I felt about it until about 10 years had passed. When I hear it today it still hits me exactly the same way as it did 20 years ago. It's lost none of its power, and sounds like it comes from a different planet: a barren, frozen landscape at permanent dusk.

The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:48 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

**but i think it would be silly to say that it is not an ian curtis memorial album**

While I accept that it can't help but be in his shadow - the phrase 'memorial album' sounds like a hollow tribute, trying but failing to *be as good as* JD. My whole point is that musically it hasn't got much to do with JD, it's a NEW sound.

Also don't underestimate the resolve of these guys - they were strong enough to carry on and make something entirely new. They were out and gigging again 3 months after Ian died.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

**"Unknown Pleasures" wasn't 40 minutes of production genius?**

Nearly.

Bummed - no. Sounds like they're playing at the back of a giant aircraft hanger. I am warming to it slightly, but I think MH was over the hill by then.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:03 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

you are absolutely right, dr.c, it is something new in comparison to joy division and also in comparison to what new order did later on. on the one hand it is a requiem for curtis and on the other hand it is an album where they liberate themselves from curtis musically. in a way they expel the evil genius behind curtis suicide there. a stunning way to cope with the incredible shock of having lost their bandleader.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:19 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

**"Unknown Pleasures" wasn't 40 minutes of production genius?**

Nearly.

Sorry to stray off-topic, but where do you think Hannett misses the mark on UP, Dr. C? I'll wager a guess that you'll say "Interzone", and maybe "Wilderness".

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:04 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Dunno. The album is OK, but to me it sounds a bit too much like Joy Division Phase 2. I like their two next albums a lot better, when they started to develop their own sound without Curtis, and move more in a pop/synthpop direction.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:08 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Movement is quite possibly my favourite album of all time.

While comparing it to Joy Division is inevitable, it often seems like people deride it for sounding "too much" like Joy Division - as if it weren't within New Order's right to do so. I mean, 3/4 of the band co-wrote and played on every recording of each Joy Division song. Ian Curtis was not Joy Division any more than Peter Hook's bass was Joy Division.

Anyway.

I view Movement as a natural progression from Closer, "Atmosphere" and "Love Will Tear Us Apart." I love Hannett's production, though the band wasn't pleased with the final result (to say the least, it wasn't an easy album to make) despite it not sounding terribly different than the Peel session versions of some of these tracks.

I don't know what to say about the songs which hasn't already been said. Movement makes me want to walk after dark under the cold glare of streetlights - a lot of shadows with sudden bursts of blinding brightness.

Kent Burt (lingereffect), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 03:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Just put it on right now. And you know, even though this is a CD from 1988 or so on a small American label, it sounds all the much more vibrant and amazing than I had ever remembered.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 03:52 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

though I'd rank JD as maybe my 40th or 50th post-punk band
really? i wonder who the 39 or 49 post-punk bands in front of joy div would be, i.m.. i can't think of one...

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 04:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

And having finished relistening...Dr. C, you are a man of excellent powers of description, indeed. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 04:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Haha don't tempt me, Alex---I'm just geeky enough to actually try to list them out for myself, if given the excuse. I'm still pondering trying to figure out what percentage of bands/musicians on the 1981 set are Americans. . .


My other JD weirdness is that I prefer the BBC recordings to any of the others--but I actually know a few others who concur with that one.

I.M. (I.M.), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 05:03 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

**Sorry to stray off-topic, but where do you think Hannett misses the mark on UP, Dr. C? I'll wager a guess that you'll say "Interzone", and maybe "Wilderness". **

UP is a fine production - I just think Movement is the one production you'd play to someone if you wanted to convince them of his greatness.

Funny how Hooky didn't sing any more in New Order. He's superb on Movement. I've just been listening to the Ceremony demo with Steve Morris singing! He was OK too.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 11:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Peter Hook is DJing the New Order after-party next thursday. I've already made attempt to try to add myself to the bill! What would've been really brilliant would be to hold the after-part at the Ukranian National Home. Oh well...

Thursday May 5 at The Hiro Ballroom (Maritime Hotel)

Girls & Boys and GBH presents

NEW ORDER (DJ set) featuring Peter Hook and the Official Concert After
Party along with DJs Alex English, Alex Malfunction and
Shawn Christiansen of stellarstarr*

Hosted by Filter Magazine, + 1, and Cornerstone

Limited Tickets $8 on sale starting Wednesday April 27 at www.GBH.tv
or GBH box office(open 12pm-6pm)153 W. 27 St. Ste 1107
bet 6 and 7aves.

$12 at the door

Doors Open 10pm-4am

Hiro Ballroom 363 W. 16 St and 9 Ave

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 13:55 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

And you know, even though this is a CD from 1988 or so on a small American label, it sounds all the much more vibrant and amazing than I had ever remembered.

are you talking about Movement? or something else?

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 15:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Movement. The CD version in America came much later, see, so I refer to the mastering present.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 15:38 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i still like the white and red factory edition of the cd cover more than the blue one that they used in the US.

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 15:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

from the not perfect english translation of a french review by michka assayas in rock & folk (i guess) from 1982 who was one of the few critics who "got" this album at the time:

Hence this album, without any pomp, any affectedness, made of transparent songs, all built on three chords, or very nearly. The clarity of inspiration and the - apparent - ease of some arrangements of the record will cause - or has caused, as they probably have all bought it, a serious surprise for those who considered Joy Division only as a gloomy gothic band. Starting from Joy Division's intense and
groping lucidity, New Order has reached a plain and appeased clairvoyance. Ian Curtis's terrorized voice, while breaking the organized din of the band, gave to the release the bitter taste of a fall.
Absent and serene, Albrecht's voice, mixed as if from a distance, seems to harmonioulsy and willingly find its place in the thickness of the whole lot.

The unofficial EP that was available at New Rose last fall, already featured the four best songs of "Movement" : "Dreams Never End", "Truth", "Senses" and "I.C.B.". I must confess that it is the first time for me, that the words "hypnotic", "under a spell", or even "oriental" have an entirely positive meaning to describe music. These tracks filled with salient nervures, made of a miraculously pacified tension, condemn the more and more boring and overestimated The Cure to the incurable autistic lodge they belong to. Cure provoke a smug apathy in their audience : they are Madras Radio, the
snake-charmer radio. New Order are million miles away from Cure's whining complacency, in its grey emptiness. Things are limpid, open, clear, cut out, sharp. Joy Division's music was nyctalopic, it could see with a supernatural accuracy in the darkness of inner chaos. New Order freely sails in the full light of day. The dizziness created by "Movement" originates from this extreme precision, from this pure clarity and brightness : guitars with geometrical arpeggios, pour into a naked wilderness, irrigated by a dense and liquid rhythmic basis, where drums clashes burst out, never misplaced, and
furious electronic squeak blasts hiss. Its pictorial equivalent would be Mondrian's geometrical strict and hallucinated compositions.

Everywhere I see people giving this record a chilly reception or even ignoring it. People are put out because it is too simple, not mysterious or enigmatic - or God knows what else - enough. It displeases because it is too restrained. But I would not trade this intense moderation and this cleared emotion for anything in the world, all that mediocrity, all these conceited guys we had to endure for years, with their artistic pretentions. With their permission, they are no Otis Redding - that demands a lot. It demands a lot to be New Order too.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:10 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

dr C, you are staggeringly OTM, as is so often the case. right now, because i'm not listening to new order, "technique" is my favourite album (not just by them; in the world). but when i hear "movement" - and it's not something i listen to often, because of its sheer all-consuming emotional intensity - no other music matters.

for me, "denial" is the absolute be-all and end-all: my love of post-rock and post-metal has its genesis in the first time i ever heard this track. it takes my breath away every single time.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Boy, maybe it loses in translation, but that's some awful florid prose.

(xpost)

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Whenever the French talk about JD/NO, I'm in love for its very floridness. (See also the translated piece in the JD box set.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 20:45 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I remember seeing this in the 80s. The BBC did a sort of NO special. There was a cracking version of Age of Consent.

Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 10:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

I have the whole show on a VHS in the loft somewhere.

It was simultaneously broadcast in stereo on Radio 1, I had that on cassette (they finished the version of Confusion (or was it Temptation), which faded out on the TV, but god knows where *that* cassette is)

Mark G, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 10:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

I guess they're just not a personality-defining band in the way that Stereolab or Spacemen 3 or the Velvets are - but their music never fails to make me happy.

Yep, it's like saying your favourite band was the Beatles. it's kinda understood that everyone has regard for them, but to say who you are, you do have to be a bit more specific in your tastes.

(cut me some slack here, I know you don't *all* love the btls.

Mark G, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 10:41 (ten years ago) Permalink

xpost

You can grab MP3s of the whole session here: http://www.new-order.net/no/audio/ (scroll down to 84 AUG 25)

Millsner, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 10:45 (ten years ago) Permalink

Perhaps the problem with New Order is that they *don't* have a cult of personality in the way that, say, Joy Division did. But then again, maybe that utterly workmanlike approach to music was a reaction against the whole Ian Curtis mythos. There are lots of bands that claim to be "all about the music, man" but New Order kind of quietly got on with the business of making AMAZING music without making much of a fuss about it.

They're kind of unique in my favourite bands that they kind of don't have a "syllabus" or an image or a lifestyle attached - they're actually quite enigmatic as public figures. And yet the music is so epic and so amazing thatit bulldozes pretty much anything else.

The All-Singing All-Dancing Unstoppable Kate (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 12:04 (ten years ago) Permalink

I always thought of it as the Factory 'socialist' ethos. Joint songwriting credits, bass, synths and drums as important - if not more important - than guitar and singing, no band pics on the covers, no prima donnas. It probably all myth and illusion, but I prefer it like that.

Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 12:08 (ten years ago) Permalink

Do you think that Barney and Hooky would still be *fighting* like this if it were actually like that? Ha ha.

The All-Singing All-Dancing Unstoppable Kate (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 12:16 (ten years ago) Permalink

Print the legend, I say

Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 12:33 (ten years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

http://thepowerofindependenttrucking.blogspot.com/2009/04/homage-new-order-western-works-980.html

Incredible sounding FLAC of the Western Works demo including the experimental jam with Cabaret Voltaire. Truth sounds particularly great in a very slow, oppressively solemn sounding take.

brotherlovesdub, Thursday, 30 April 2009 22:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

thanks for posting this link... downloading now!

Jack Battery-Pack, Friday, 1 May 2009 08:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

Yeah, it's bloody great to hear this with decent sound quality after all these years! My cassette sounds like mud and it always did. Wasn't worth hearing, really. Never heard that track they supposedly did with the Cabs. Just kinda sounded like...early Cabs. Which is fine, but I'm going to keep a healthy sense of skepticism about whether New Order/Rob Gretton were really involved.

Earl of Gothington Manor (Bimble), Friday, 1 May 2009 16:04 (ten years ago) Permalink

Okay people, look. You're supposed to get excited about this. The thread can't just die. You can actually hear HOMAGE now, clearly, okay? YOU CAN HEAR THE SONG CLEARLY FOR THE FIRST TIME. This is an early New Order fan's wet dream. Ah, but never mind. Carry on not caring.

Earl of Gothington Manor (Bimble), Sunday, 3 May 2009 03:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

Hey, I care! Downloaded them yesterday, gave a listen.

I haven't expressed much excitement because a) I've been listening to their Scamps, Blackpool show (performed two days before the WW demos!) and b) girls distract me.

Millsner, Sunday, 3 May 2009 03:59 (ten years ago) Permalink

ha! just watching that bbc live footage... christ! bernard sumner can't sing for shit, nor can he play guitar very well, even easy stuff. peter hook does the same exact thing in every song, gilian just held down 2 notes on some argegiator preset through the whoe song, and the drumming, while not being as noticeably bad as the rest of them, is sloppy. how on earth did they ever manage to become the best band of the 80's?

messiahwannabe, Tuesday, 5 May 2009 02:31 (ten years ago) Permalink

therein lies the beauty of new order.

brotherlovesdub, Tuesday, 5 May 2009 03:08 (ten years ago) Permalink

and yet, perfect kiss is out there wild in the world, gainsaying all naysayers.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, 5 May 2009 07:43 (ten years ago) Permalink

Okay people, look. You're supposed to get excited about this. The thread can't just die. You can actually hear HOMAGE now, clearly, okay? YOU CAN HEAR THE SONG CLEARLY FOR THE FIRST TIME. This is an early New Order fan's wet dream. Ah, but never mind. Carry on not caring.

'Homage' is not terribly good though, is it?

Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 5 May 2009 08:07 (ten years ago) Permalink

I have the whole show on a VHS in the loft somewhere.

It was simultaneously broadcast in stereo on Radio 1, I had that on cassette (they finished the version of Confusion (or was it Temptation), which faded out on the TV, but god knows where *that* cassette is)

― Mark G, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 10:35 (4 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Actually, do you know what? I *think* I had the stereo sound from the Radio 1 broadcast fed into the VHS instead of the mono terrestrial sound. So, the NO session continues whereas the BBC pics go to something else.

Still haven't actually found it tho.

Mark G, Tuesday, 5 May 2009 10:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

Frankly, I spent ages downloading stuff to deal with Flac and RAR files or whatever, and wished I hadn't bothered. Still love Movement though.

Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 5 May 2009 20:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

NEW ORDER: Movement (Factory).

The clean, industrial sound of New Order fulfills all the expectations that inevitably result from their history (Joy Division) without being predictable. Insistent, itching rhythms underly music that is electronic but human (even romantic!), sometimes beautiful and often melancholy. Only the vocals let it down by their characterlessness. Let's have more passion, please! Bernard Albrecht, Peter Hooke, Gillian Gilbert and Stephen Morris are Very Serious Young People as tracks like "Truth", "Sensors" and "Denial" underline. And there's nothing wrong with that.

(8 out of 10)

Neil Tennant

-Taken from Smash Hits album reviews, November 26th 1981 - page 25.

Note: Everything typed above is how it actually appears.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, 4 November 2012 21:00 (six years ago) Permalink

six years pass...

AHHHH

http://ventsmagazine.com/2018/12/19/new-order-announce-release-of-movement-definitive-edition-boxed-set/

TRACKLISTING
LP / CD1 (original album)
Dreams Never End
Truth
Senses
Chosen Time
ICB
The Him
Doubts Even Here
Denial
CD2 (previously unreleased tracks)

Dreams Never End (Western Works Demo)
Homage (Western Works Demo)
Ceremony (Western Works Demo)
Truth (Western Works Demo)
Are You Ready For This? (Western Works Demo)
The Him (Cargo Demo)
Senses (Cargo Demo)
Truth (Cargo Demo)
Dreams Never End (Cargo Demo)
Mesh (Cargo Demo)
ICB (Cargo Demo)
Procession (Cargo Demo)
Cries And Whispers (Cargo Demo)
Doubts Even Here (Instrumental) (Cargo Demo)
Ceremony (1st Mix – Ceremony Sessions)
Temptation (Alternative 7”)
Procession (Rehearsal Recording)
Chosen Time (Rehearsal Recording)

New Order – Movement DVD
Live Shows
Hurrah’s, NY 1980
In A Lonely Place
Procession
Dreams Never End
Mesh
Truth
Cries & Whispers
Denial
Ceremony
Recorded on 27th September, 1980.
Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri

Peppermint Lounge, NY 1981
In A Lonely Place
Dreams Never End
Chosen Time
ICB
Senses
Denial
Everything’s Gone Green
Hurt – instrumental
Temptation

TV Sessions
Granada Studios 1981
Doubts Even Here
The Him
Procession
Senses
Denial

BBC Riverside 1982
Temptation
Chosen Time
Procession
Hurt – instrumental
Senses
Denial
In A Lonely Place

Extras
Ceremony CoManCHE Student Union 1981
In A Lonely Place Toronto 1981
Temptation Soul Kitchen, Newcastle 1982
Hurt Le Palace, Paris 1982
Procession Le Palace, Paris 1982
Chosen Time Pennies 1982
Truth The Haçienda 1983
ICB Minneapolis 1983

12” Singles
Ceremony (version 1)
Recorded at Eastern Artists Recordings in East Orange, New Jersey, during the US visit the previous September, New Order’s first single might, in an alternative universe, have been Joy Division’s next. The 12” single, originally released in March 1981 (the 7” having been released in January) including the original version of ‘Ceremony’, will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.
Side 1
Ceremony (version 1)
Side 2
In A Lonely Place
Ceremony (version 2)
The alternative, re-recorded version of ‘Ceremony’ now also featuring Gillian Gilbert in the band was released later in 1981 and will feature the later alternative ‘cream’ sleeve rather than the original green and copper. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.
Side 1
Ceremony (version 2)
Side 2
In A Lonely Place
Everythings Gone Green
Originally released on Factory Benelux in December 1981, this 12” featured Everythings Gone Green, which had previously been on the reverse of the band’s second 7” single ‘Procession’ in September 1981,and ‘Cries And Whispers’ and ‘Mesh’ whose titles were flipped on the cover causing confusion amongst fans and compilers ever since. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.
Side 1
Everythings Gone Green
Side 2
Cries And Whispers
Mesh
Temptation
Featuring the full versions of both tracks this 12” was first release in May 1982 and were the first self-produced released recordings. With ‘Temptation’ being a cast iron New Order classic, this is an essential part of any New Order collection. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.
Side 1
Temptation
Side 2
Hurt

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 15:04 (six months ago) Permalink

remix:

12” Singles


Ceremony (version 1)

Recorded at Eastern Artists Recordings in East Orange, New Jersey, during the US visit the previous September, New Order’s first single might, in an alternative universe, have been Joy Division’s next. The 12” single, originally released in March 1981 (the 7” having been released in January) including the original version of ‘Ceremony’, will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.

Side 1

Ceremony (version 1)

Side 2

In A Lonely Place


Ceremony (version 2)

The alternative, re-recorded version of ‘Ceremony’ now also featuring Gillian Gilbert in the band was released later in 1981 and will feature the later alternative ‘cream’ sleeve rather than the original green and copper. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.

Side 1

Ceremony (version 2)

Side 2

In A Lonely Place


Everythings Gone Green

Originally released on Factory Benelux in December 1981, this 12” featured Everythings Gone Green, which had previously been on the reverse of the band’s second 7” single ‘Procession’ in September 1981,and ‘Cries And Whispers’ and ‘Mesh’ whose titles were flipped on the cover causing confusion amongst fans and compilers ever since. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.

Side 1

Everythings Gone Green

Side 2

Cries And Whispers

Mesh


Temptation

Featuring the full versions of both tracks this 12” was first release in May 1982 and were the first self-produced released recordings. With ‘Temptation’ being a cast iron New Order classic, this is an essential part of any New Order collection. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.

Side 1

Temptation

Side 2

Hurt

Mark G, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 15:29 (six months ago) Permalink

I am looking forward to this because I never did get the two CD reissues after all the kerfluffle about sound quality, so if this is a full new series, I'm happily on board.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 17:09 (six months ago) Permalink

Yeah, this looks amazing. Hopefully Mute don't fuck up the actual box like they did with the Music Complete set. Going to wait to read reviews of the sound quality before shelling out big bucks for this though. Been burned by New Order reissues many times in the past.

brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 17:12 (six months ago) Permalink

putting out four 12"s instead of a 3rd disc in the album plays like a fuckup to me

sans lep (sic), Wednesday, 19 December 2018 17:55 (six months ago) Permalink

putting out four 12"s instead of a 3rd disc in the album plays like a fuckup to me

Exactly what I said on Twitter. Why aren't the 12"s in the box set? You know damn well why not. ($$$)

grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 19 December 2018 19:01 (six months ago) Permalink

this makes me really glad that I already have all those 12"s ripped and hard filed, the hell with remasters

sleeve, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 19:03 (six months ago) Permalink

wait, aren't the 12"s part of the box set?

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Wednesday, 19 December 2018 19:05 (six months ago) Permalink

No.

Mark G, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 19:06 (six months ago) Permalink

it might be both? lots of people might want just some of the 12s, fuck a box set imo

my name is leee john, for we are many (NickB), Wednesday, 19 December 2018 19:07 (six months ago) Permalink

I kinda just want the CDs, I'm already swimming in New Order 12"s

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Wednesday, 19 December 2018 19:09 (six months ago) Permalink

Ah, I see. They're in the 'bundle' for 150. I have all the 12"s already, but if these sound good, i'd rather play the reissues than the originals. BTW, my original 12" of Ceremony (green sleeve, 1st version) sounds phenomenal. I can hear the guitar in the background so much clearer than on any other CD or vinyl version.

brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 22:16 (six months ago) Permalink

hey f.hazel, i'm looking to complete my collection and I am missing a couple 94/95 singles, and the Jetstream promo with a J on the front. if you're looking to get rid of some, i'm looking to buy.

brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 22:17 (six months ago) Permalink

Thanks to this thread for turning me on to that Taras Chevchenko performance, which is incredible. I agree that it throws the Movement tracks into a whole new (Hannett-free) light.

What is Peter Hook playing at that concert - is that a 6-string bass, or did the band just have 2 guitars at this point?
Also, interesting that Hook never got a lead vocal again after "Dreams Never End"... it's not like his voice is any worse than Bernie's.

enochroot, Thursday, 20 December 2018 12:59 (six months ago) Permalink

^ (what is Hooky playing on the first few songs, I should say -- he seems to switch back and forth with a regular 4-string bass later in the set)

enochroot, Thursday, 20 December 2018 13:13 (six months ago) Permalink

New Order 12" reissues is a weird move. All decent used record stores seem to have loads. Plus I got a pristine Ceremony cream sleeve off Discogs for $20 just last year.

All accounts I've read talk about how none of them wanted to sing. I'm surprised Hook wasn't stuck with it again.

maffew12, Thursday, 20 December 2018 13:46 (six months ago) Permalink

I am all over this if they're mastered properly!

Also thanks to this thread for being, IIRC, my introduction to ILM all of 13 years ago.

Millsner, Thursday, 20 December 2018 13:52 (six months ago) Permalink

"Also, interesting that Hook never got a lead vocal again after "Dreams Never End"."

doesn't he sign Doubts Even Here? Or is that Barney trying to be Ian Curtis?

akm, Thursday, 20 December 2018 14:22 (six months ago) Permalink

sing obviously, i haven't had any coffee yet

akm, Thursday, 20 December 2018 14:22 (six months ago) Permalink

pretty sure that's Hook

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 December 2018 14:23 (six months ago) Permalink

Once I untangled the grammar on the wikipedia page for that song, I confirmed that Hook did indeed sing Doubts Even Here:


This led to a dispute over who should fill Curtis' shoes with the lead vocalist role. All three male members were in contention, but due to Bernard Sumner's voice being significantly different from Curtis', New Order opted for him to take the role, wanting New Order's sound to be different from Joy Division's. Ironically with this new vocalist, in addition to "Doubts Even Here", the first track ("Dreams Never End") on the first album recorded by New Order, Movement, is sung by bassist Peter Hook.

enochroot, Thursday, 20 December 2018 14:34 (six months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

so I bought Movement: The Definitive Edition with some unexpected catsitting money, and it's pretty great. the box and book and everything are very nice, but the real treasures are the two bonus discs, a CD and a DVD. The CD has the Western Works demos and the Cargo demos and some other neat stuff, but the DVD is so great! Four live shows (two in clubs, two in studios) from 1980-1982 showcasing all kinds of possible New Orders before they settled in and the recordings sound really good. Presumably it's mostly stuff that has been out there floating around but it's nice to have it all together... so far liking most the Cargo demos, a sorta un-Hannetted Movement and the Peppermint Lounge show from 1981 with a bonkers version of Temptation I think I've heard before but is delightful. By the 1982 versions they've already pretty much locked it down.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 12 April 2019 02:46 (two months ago) Permalink

gross title

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Friday, 12 April 2019 02:55 (two months ago) Permalink

they wisely did not emboss that on the front of the box or anywhere inside on the artwork, only only the one-sheet stuck to the back (which can be removed)

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 12 April 2019 02:58 (two months ago) Permalink

I want to say clips from some of those live sets show up in the New Order Story doc.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 12 April 2019 03:07 (two months ago) Permalink

> unexpected catsitting money

what? that's a great title

maffew12, Friday, 12 April 2019 20:41 (two months ago) Permalink

Some Unexpected Catsitting Money was the working title of Some Great Reward, IIRC.

Anyway, the Cargo demos are so fucking good, let me reiterate. I don't know if it's more the fresh sound of an album I've been listening to for thirty years now, or if it really just works better without the Hannett sheen... Unknown Pleasures for me was certainly drastically improved by his production (vs the Warsaw demos), but I dunno about Movement. They buried the vocals on the original Movement, but I really like them being way forward in the mix on the Cargo demos.

The guitar on the Cargo version of Dreams Never End sounds like some great lost Galaxie 500 track (Hook singing on that track... quite alarming) but his vocals work on Mesh, with the bass on that one there's a nice Gang of Four thing going. And the stripped-down Doubts Even Here has a nice Seventeen Seconds thing going. As I said, it's like a catalog of possible New Orders, before they chose.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 13 April 2019 04:39 (two months ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

Why is "Procession" nowhere to be found in all this remastering and reissuing? Just because it was a 7"? Or have I missed it somehow?

Too bad the 12"s don't seem to be available digitally - no CD or download.

Hans Holbein (Chinchilla Volapük), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 20:56 (one month ago) Permalink

It's on both the recent-ish Movement reissues (2CD deluxe has the original 7" version and the Definitive Edition has six various demo/live versions) and on the re-remastered Singles compilation.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 21:08 (one month ago) Permalink

You can download the singles here - in the uk anyway

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/interpreter/new-order/download-streaming-albums?s=rdc#results

I think they are on iTunes too

I am using your worlds, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 21:45 (one month ago) Permalink


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