Wynton Marsalis(sp)

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anthony, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Destroy. Just destroy, please.

hstencil, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

The definition of dud.

Omar, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Actually, his classical albums are pretty amazing. In Gabriel's Garden, or something to that effect. As a former roomie of a conservatory trumpeteer, I can tell you that Mr. Marsalis has mad chops. The "In This Church" double album is great, as is the new Mariac Suite. It's funny how so many people disparagingly accuse him of neo-conservatism, but in fact if any of them listen to his compositions, they're quite "out"--I'm not a proponent of his "circle the wagons" approach of defining jazz, but I can see what he means by a linear progression through listening to his albums. The brother of a friend of mine used to be the bassist for Marcus Roberts, and apparently some of the Lincoln Center crew can be real assholes to whitey's. When I met Mr. Marsalis in passing, he seemed really really nice. Weird. Early Marsalis is also quite impressive, as are the recordings of his brother Eric and the other one besides Branford.

If you're interested in neo-bop players, there's a guy named Wallace Roney who used to double for Miles when Miles got sick, and Mr. Roney is actually an amazing player--he's got the muted bell sound, but he's gorgeous in a lot of albums.

And if you like reeds, check out the recently deceased Thomas Chapin for some amazingly odd but gorgeous Knitting Factory type stuff.

Mickey Black Eyes, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Marsalis = to be encouraged keep his mouth on his instrument rather than flapping in the breeze, especially if Stanley Crouch is lurking nearby.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Search: Black Codes From the Underground, that's a good album from back when Marsalis was still acknowledging the '60s.

Everybody hates Marsalis because of the Ken Burns debacle, but the idea that he's doing serious damage to jazz is off base, I think. The people that buy into the Marsalis/Courch vision of jazz wouldn't be spending their money on David S. Ware records if Marsalis wasn't around -- they'd be buying Kenny G. The experimental fringe of jazz is just not going to sell well, whether Marsalis is around or not.

Mark, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Two things:

...Stanley Crouch is lurking nearby.

He doesn't lurk, he waddles.

Everybody hates Marsalis because of the Ken Burns debacle, but the idea that he's doing serious damage to jazz is off base, I think. The people that buy into the Marsalis/Courch vision of jazz wouldn't be spending their money on David S. Ware records if Marsalis wasn't around -- they'd be buying Kenny G. The experimental fringe of jazz is just not going to sell well, whether Marsalis is around or not.

To poorly paraphrase Bradford's out-of-context comments on Cecil Taylor in Ken Burns's Jazz: bullshit. The "experimental fringe" as you say it and as defined by Burns/Crouch/Marsalis includes such figures as Coltrane, Ayler and others who sold pretty well in their day. I don't subscribe to the revisionist view that 1960s free jazz is somehow "difficult." Funny how people make these claims yet at the same time complain that free players are somehow too simple to be able to "play properly." It's also mind-boggling to me how music played nearly 40 years ago is still controversial to some.

The "experimental fringe" as you term it doesn't sell well now, but it did at one time. Perhaps if people like Burns/Crouch/Marsalis weren't so incredibly intent on denigrating musicians like Coltrane or Ayler or Lester Bowie or Cecil or any number of others, the public would respond more enthusiastically. Either way, better, more focused, unbiased coverage of free jazz in Burns's PBS series would've been a lot less painful to watch than those of an elderly Louis Armstrong mugging for the camera.

hstencil, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Actually, the experimental fringe didn't sell all that well even in the old days--they were definitely sold and carried on the strength of the artists' previous works, but even John Coltrane had to record Ballads in the midst of his "post sheets of sound fuck elvin jones" phase to make a few bucks, according to some sources. And besides, no one today claims that free-jazz is "controversial," they just call it crap. And debating its worthiness is not at all being controversial, it's just a matter of course.

And it's completely disingenuous to claim that the same people who claim that free jazz is difficult would claim that the players couldn't play. Some free-jazz IS "difficult," and some free-jazz is not--and some free-jazzers, like Cecil Taylor and Albert Ayler, could play and had something to say, and some, like Ronald Shannon Jackson or James Blood Ulmer, couldn't play and had very little to say.

If it's obnoxious for the young lions to whitewash the past, it's just as obnoxious for the "free-jazzers" to do the same.

Mickey Black Eyes, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Scratch that post part, I had no idea what kind of crack I'm smoking today--I meant, during his "pre-sheets of sound fuck elvin jones" period. And by fuck Elvin Jones, I don't mean literally.

Mickey Black Eyes, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Anthony, I used to really like Blue Interlude and parts of Citi Movement when I was in high school, but I haven't bothered in years. Hearing e.g. Charles' Mingus' The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady was revelatory because it sounds like Marsalis cribbed so much from Mingus.

Re Coltrane: am I remembering right that people were walking out of his shows early on in the 60s? (i.e. well before the Live in Japan stylee hourlong "Favorite Things" skronkouts etc.)

Josh, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

We need sales figure here to assess the popularity of 60s jazz then & now -- I do see that A Love Supreme was one of the 10 best selling jazz records at Amazon last year, but I don't know how well it did back in the day (it also finally went Gold in 2001, interestingly.)

Mark, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

And it's completely disingenuous to claim that the same people who claim that free jazz is difficult would claim that the players couldn't play. Some free-jazz IS "difficult," and some free-jazz is not--and some free-jazzers, like Cecil Taylor and Albert Ayler, could play and had something to say, and some, like Ronald Shannon Jackson or James Blood Ulmer, couldn't play and had very little to say.

Whatever, I've seen plenty of ridiculous claims by people that Ayler "couldn't play." These claims became even more dubious to me when they were stated by Bird fans, most of whom didn't know that Ayler was known as "Little Bird" when he was starting out in Cleveland.

As for Ronald Shannon Jackson and James Blood Ulmer, I'm not gonna defend them because I'm not a huge fan of their music, but to claim that they "couldn't play" is kind of silly.

Then again, are you the guy who claimed that all A.A.C.M. musicians just played "out-of-tune blues" or something like that?

hstencil, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Aha! It IS you, Mr. "You, sir, are an idiot" HStencil. My long-lost nemesis. :)

As I recall, Albert Ayler started off in Little Walter's band? Is that right? Or something like that--I actually managed to sit in one time with Odeon Pope. (I was a twee tyke, so maybe it was more amusement than anything else for him.)

Ronald Shannon Jackson has chops, but can't play. I'm not going to go into the distinction, but it should be fairly self-evident. And egads, Ulmer has survived on some weird form of fan worship that I just don't get.

And re: AACM, you completely missed my point, my point had nothing to do with the worth or validation of their music, blue-based and otherwise, but what the critics have turned them into, whether through villification or blanket "The Wire"-esque adulation. My point was that, in terming them AVANT-GARDE, they skewed the meaning and also skewed the purpose of the term. I like WSQ, especially Oliver Lake, and I like Marty Ehrlich and Tim Berne, and all those cats just fine, but in terming them avant-garde, all of the sudden they're in the same category as fucking La Monte Young, or Caspar Brotzmann. And I think that that's awful, both to what the artists have to be identified as, and as an encouragement to shite players who see the veneer of respectability in blowing 'til your face turns blue and "playing out of tune blues."

Mickey Black Eyes, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Apologies again, I'm an eeeediot and mispelled Mr. Pope's name. And then forgot to mention why I mentioned him. Which is that it was his complaint of "out of tune blues" which I pilfered. Damn this modern age of cutting and pasting!

Mickey Black Eyes, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

I see, "out-of-tune blues" comment clarified. I took offense originally because I thought that you were commenting on the playing ability and style of, gee, at least a hundred-plus musicians who have been associated with A.A.C.M. over some 35 years? Quite a generalization. It seemed kinda crazy to me to say something like Roscoe Mitchell's Sound is "out-of-tune blues."

As for your dislike of the term "avant-garde," I completely agree with you, actually. The term is meaningless and inaccurate, and just as cliche-ridden as "cutting edge" or "experimental." Personally, I think it should only be used when referring to a very narrow range of musicians/composers. Michael Nyman's Experimental Music has a pretty decent description of the difference between "avant-garde" and "experimental." People still keep using the same lazy terms, though.

hstencil, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

WHY is he so hated???? I know nothing about him other than he may play jazz (???) and he is fiercely loathed.

1 1 2 3 5, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

what's this "can't play" shit? if marsalis so- called can and ulmer so-called can't, then maybe "playing" isn't something worth striving for... i know which of the two's made more bettah records

the burns thing was either proof that marsalis doesn't even slightly understand jazz, or a *monumental* intellectual sell-out — and i don't mean the non-discush of the avant-garde either, which is actually kind of a red herring. The strand on Billie Holiday was moronic drivel.

mark s, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

YAY! I knew, deep down inside, HStencil was just a more morally righteous guardian of jazz! Just kidding. Of COURSE I didn't mean to disparage the gazillion brilliant people in AACM, I just think that it's odd that avant-garde covered everything from throw-on-the- wall art and highly organised treatises on one issue. I like both a lot, but it's disturbing because it reduces everything to "avant- garde." I mean, like it or not, Marty Ehrlich's deep woods ensemble material is NOT the same as Boulez. It's just not, it's not as deeply considered--I don't mean that it's worse, but it's not addressing the same issues. But to an amateur, they can't tell the difference because it's all just so foreign, and so it becomes lumped together. Kind of annoying.

And regarding Ulmer's not playing, that's actually just my take. It's an opinion--and I didn't want to trigger that anti-craft reaction of, "if he can play, it must suck." I meant "play" re: Wynton as he has chops and, coincidentally, has taste--in Ulmer's case, I meant, he has nothing to say and really isn't a great player. Those two issues should be taken separately.

Mickey Black Eyes, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

The problem is that many great talents are real assholes. As long as they don't get positions of power, fine. When they take their particular taste for the law of the land then fuck.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

So has anybody listened to one of his records?

If people avoid Marsalis' work because of his who he is as a person, that seems kind of funny, considering the number of pricks who've made great music. It's like, not being down with Archie Shepp is more reprehensible than punching Cicely Tyson.

I like Black Codes, anyway. And, uh, Crescent City Christmas Card. Whatever that makes me.

Mark, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

It's interesting that it may not even be possible to hear Marsalis' music now for what it is now, after the image he's developed. People will hear his playing and automatically think, "It's traditional and conservative" whether it's true or not (I don't think that of his early-80s albums, at least not any more than, say, Lee Morgan [not that they sound alike]). He toured with Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Tony Williams playing behind him when he was 19, for what it's worth (maybe not much).

Mark, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

It's true that Wynton's early 80s playing is much less, um, conservative than that of his later work. Part of the whole thing that led him down the deep dark path to Crouch-dom (Stanley actually played drums on one free jazz album, donchaknow?) was a major break with some of the people that mentored him, such as Lester Bowie. I don't see why anyone shouldn't consider him an asshole after dissing Lester, who along with Miles Davis and Wadada Leo Smith practically re-invented jazz trumpeting. Also, although I'm by no means an expert on the entire man's recording career (sorry, I don't want to hear his "classical" music), what I've heard after his "fuck you I'm gonna tell all y'all what jazz is" stage just isn't as good, certainly not that immediate or interesting.

Part of why it's a big deal that he's dissed his elders (or at least, his predecessors) is, while yes there is some bad free jazz (just like any genre, there are some clunkers out there), giving people the impression that an ENTIRE GENRE of music isn't worth anything is just plain stupid.

As for Archie Shepp, I'd take him any day over Wynton. Not only can he play "out" and "in" (shit, some of his out records like Coral Rock are some of my favorite records ever, not just favorite jazz), but he also is a talented writer. In fact, he was first known as a playwright around NYC; I don't think he picked up a horn until later.

hstencil, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

I heard tell from some people whose opinions I respect on r.m.b. that some of the live (?) stuff Wynton has been dumping (like a 9-disc set or something??) in recent years was pretty good. So maybe it's just when he's not just being conservative or apeing dead musicians, but FUCKING THEIR CORPSES that things start to go funny.

Josh, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

NB I have not heard any of the recent Ellington or Armstrong stuff.

Josh, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

If it weren't for Marsalis and Crouch then who would people rebel against? Wherever there's electricity there's a lightning rod.

dave q, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

'As long as they don't get positions of power, fine'

Hmm, interesting area. Power corrupts? Or is it better if people with talent are always different than the people in power? Or is that the way it is now? Is there a talent/power/assholianism correlation and if so, what is it?

dave q, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Fact: David S Ware got dropped by Columbia after two albums. So much for Marsalis patronage. Bet you Dave Douglas doesn't get the same treatment from BMG.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

So has anybody listened to one of his records?

Yes - 3 of the early jazz ones (s/t, 'Think of One', 'Black Codes...'). All have their moments, but that's about as far as I'd go. He deseves credit for reawakening interest in Hummel and the Haydn concertos (but I've not heard his recordings of them).

Jeff W, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

jazz is for fuckin ponces. this is i love music so talk about music not wanking about on a trumpet just cos your dicks only two inch long.

XStatic Peace, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

sorry mickey i wuz a bit tetchy last night and am — well usetabe — really really fond of ulmer & jackson, so snapped back a bit: i fink there may be something a bit more interesting here than you and me biting chunks from one another's butts (well, no, hmmm, wait a minute...), so i'm gunna sit back and THINK OUT my response here, re craft and chops and worth and whatevah!!

there was a chops thread before: can anyone remember what/where and link to it?

XtaTic: even ppl w.tiny penises are entitled to opinions you know: leave us be w. our secret shames...

mark s, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Mark! No apologeeeeeee! I actually didn't think you were touchy at all--my touchi-o-meter is not very good. At least you didn't resort to simple name-calling. :)

When I was really into harmolodics as a teen, I listened to a lot of Jackson, among others--the way beginner musicians can tend to fixate, and the more I listened to other music, the less beauty and thought I found in his--it became this anti-human amalgam of chops and swagger, drumming without love or beauty or anything--I dunno... I guess I just hoped it would have more to offer than itchy trigger fingers. In a way, the 80's brand of harmolodics just seemed like the boy's club fusion mess that got continued under a different name. Ulmer isn't like that, and occasionally he had some good stuff, but like some other Black Arc, Black Saint, Saint Arc, ArcArc, recording artists, (I forget which record labels are real now,) sometimes one wonders whether it's the pedigree or the content that got these albums released.

Have you heard Jimmy Giuffre? He's amazing and considered at the same time, quite interesting fellow. Also, as always, the venerable and sometimes confounding Anthony Braxton's stuff you might like as well. And Cecil Taylor is great. Did you know that he did a concert with Mary Lou Williams? Apparently they were trying to reconcile the trad path and the garde path, and Cecil basically out-louded Williams by pounding on the keyboard. Not the most graceful or agreeable way to settle a discussion.

And HStencil, I really think you should give Marsalis's Haydn and other classical albums a shot before condemning them. He did, after all, go to Julliard and put in some hard hours--you can sort of tell that he's not classical in his phrasing, but it's phenomenal. And his control is awesome. Putting classical in quotes, saying that you haven't heard them, don't want to, and then calling them out doesn't really put your argument in the best light. Ignorance isn't convincing justification at all.

Mickey Black Eyes, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Fact: David S Ware got dropped by Columbia after two albums. So much for Marsalis patronage.

Fact: David S. Ware was signed to Columbia on the recommendation of Branford, not Wynton, Marsalis. As much as I am loathe to defend poor Wynton, I don't think he had anything to do with the esteemed Mr. Ware being dropped.

hstencil, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Burn Wynton's albums but search Romances for Saxophone by Branford. Mainly impressionist composers (Debussy, Satie, Stravinsky, Faure, Ravel etc.) in a very tender interpretation. Those pieces sound very intimate and fragile on soprano saxophone (accompanied by a chamber music orchestra).

alex in mainhattan, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

Have heard one or two tracks on the radio and its really retro jazz. But again I'd rather listen to Cecil taylor and Ayler. Even though some of it is nearly 40 years old it still sounds exciting and full of life. Marsalis just doesn't seem to have that effect on me.

JUlio Desouza, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

I certainly have no love for "Wynton" as an entity (his ideas and interviews and all), but there's some good music on Black Codes, some of the early standard material with Tain, and the Village Vanguard box set with his septet.

I remember getting that box (since it was only thirty some bucks) at the same time as Dave Douglas's 'Soul on Soul' and one cd from each in the changer before falling half-asleep. When I woke up, I was very surprised to realize that what I thought had been a tune with Douglas doing his more 'out' stuff had been Wynton going for the trad New Orleans smear-type playing and vice versa. Kinda helped me eliminate some anti-Wynton prejudice.

Jordan, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

three years pass...
As I'm on a pay-my-respects-to-New-Orleans kick, I downloaded "Juba and a O'Brown Squaw" from the Village Vanguard box. I suggest doing the same before you totally write him off. It's a fucking party.

I've seen Wynton a couple of times and I think he really "comes to life" live. I also think he's gotten more interesting as time has gone on, especially his neo-New Orleans stuff - whoever above said they had only heard a couple of early albums ought to check out some more recent ones (Wynton was VERY young on the first few).

I'm not really interested in the whole debate over what Wynton does for/to Jazz on the whole, though personally I consider him harmless at worst. And I think he's a fantastic trumpet player - beautiful sound.

Still, he's very hit-or-miss. When he goes through a bop tune or standard it sometimes feels like an exercise. But he's also capable of having a lot of fun with a song.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 12 September 2005 03:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, ok fine. Go on hating him, you trendy fucks.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I'm still totally conflicted on him. He can play, and I kinda want to check out that live quartet album he did recently with some young cats.

And pro-New Orleans = good, but he was doing this detached version of it up in Lincoln Center instead of connecting with the current scene at all.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I'm not to keen on the "institution" of jazz at Lincoln Center, but I kind of just put that out of my mind. That idea of "jazz" is something different from my jazz, but it doesn't get in the way either.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I have that 7-disc VV cd set because it retails for like 30-35 bucks. It has its moments. Dude is still kind of a douche tho.

deej.., Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Check his solo on the live at the VV recording of "Knozz Moe King"

deej.., Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I like Happy Feet Blues from that set a lot, but it's still a little bit of "hey, here's the second-line tune". It seems less forced when Harry Connick's band plays that shit.

And yet, that doesn't take anything away from how bad those guys (Wycliffe, Herlin Riley, Wessell Anderson) are.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I love Herlin Riley.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:41 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Wynton has very good taste in young traditionalist musicians. I'd much rather hear his band any day than the bands a lot of aging giants put together.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:42 (seventeen years ago) link

There are some soundfiles here of Herlin sitting at Donna's:

http://www.donnasbarandgrill.com/Live/030303/index.html

He was amazing that night. It was my very first trip to New Orleans, and I'm playing snare drum (probably horribly, I haven't listened to this for years).

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I also kind of got the impression that Herlin and Wynton sparked something of a revival of interest in second-line among trad jazz players.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

By "trad" do you mean, like, traditional New Orleans jazz or straight-ahead/not "avant garde"?

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 14:55 (seventeen years ago) link

I see him no differently than a younger blues guy that can play the Buddy Guy licks, or the Fela-revival band Antibalas or a 70's funk revival show--it's a time capsule. All this stuff sounds great live & is a really good time, but I'll pass on the records they're putting out.

Keith C (lync0), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 15:08 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost I meant straight ahead, sorry. Can see how that'd be a confusing term in this context.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link

six years pass...

i've never listened to wynton before

i'm listening to black codes from the underground (shoulda been a public enemy album title)

but yeah

it's good

better than his rep would suggest

but...it totally fails to grab me in anyway whatsoever

it just kinda sits there

a little tiny crunk person (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 19:11 (ten years ago) link

six years pass...

does anybody still listen to blood on the fields

i had a roommate in college who played it all the time because he was a prizewhore, but he did not actually have any independent interest in jazz

j., Tuesday, 17 April 2018 02:54 (four years ago) link

blood on the fields is good

marcos, Tuesday, 17 April 2018 03:08 (four years ago) link

four years pass...

Just finished Ted Gioia's "The History of Jazz" and wanted to note that it had more on Marsalis than on all non-US artists throughout history combined.

link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 22 September 2022 13:35 (one week ago) link

I really need to check on here before I start any more music books.

link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 22 September 2022 13:36 (one week ago) link

That's crazy. I think Gary Giddins once said Marsalis's impact inversely diminished as his ambitions grew bigger, and I kind of agree (though not commercially - I think Marsalis got more press and probably sold more records and more concert tickets when he released more ambitious work). A great player, but a frustrating artist where his great technical ability can be hampered by his flawed vision.

birdistheword, Thursday, 22 September 2022 14:13 (one week ago) link

(though not commercially - I think Marsalis got more press and probably sold more records and more concert tickets when he released more ambitious work)

Curious about the timeline -- he was dropped by CBS in 2000 for flagging sales.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 22 September 2022 14:58 (one week ago) link

It's a weird and complex issue. He writes a fucking ton of material for the JALC Orchestra, and gets other members to write and arrange, too, but nobody else plays his compositions, like, ever — not one Wynton Marsalis tune has entered the common repertoire. And that's kinda too bad, because some of the albums the JALC Orchestra has put out in the last few years — Handful Of Keys, Jazz & Art, The Fifties — are pretty good. No, he's not breaking new ground, it's all basically Mingus-meets-Ellington with some extra New Orleans thrown in, but the tunes are decent, and the band can certainly play. I feel like in his quest to preserve jazz, he built himself a giant tomb and walled himself up inside it. If he came out more and engaged with the wider world, it would be better for his music and maybe for the music as a whole. But if/when you just want to hear him do his thing, he can be pretty good at it.

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 22 September 2022 15:07 (one week ago) link

I do wonder if everything he’s done with founding JALC will be his greater legacy.

The self-titled drags (Eazy), Thursday, 22 September 2022 15:37 (one week ago) link

Speaking of which, I know that there was and is some bad blood about the experience of the ALJO, which started at JALC but then split off for reasons maybe you can read about elsewhere. Also I heard a story about someone else of some stature unrelated to the ALJO saying "The only Wynton I care about is Wynton Kelly."

Ride On Proserpina (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 22 September 2022 15:54 (one week ago) link


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