C/D ::: Tortoise's TNT

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I've been witnessing a bit of ILM player hating on one of my favorite bands, Tortoise. The album TNT is utterly classic to me. So, detract if you dare, but; no posts by people unfamiliar with this recording please! (To know it is to love it).

TNT ::: Classique or Duh'd, GO!!

Octavio Coleman (Bobby Peru), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Oh, I love it.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I kinda have to be in the right mood for it these days, though.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:20 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Much discussion of this already on some of the many post-rock threads. Jaymc and I = the two who like it?

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:20 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I think there was a lot of love in some of those big post-rock threads, but yeah, it's my favorite Tortoise album.

xpost!

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:20 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Maybe this weekend I'll post an mp3 of a jazz trio I used to play with covering 'I Set My Face to the Hillside'.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:21 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

are you kidding me, jordan? pleeeeeeease post it!

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:22 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

that may be my favorite track on the album. it's so well composed.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:23 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Here's where Nabisco (and I, to a lesser extent) talk about TNT: Class, etc. pt. 4 - Did post-rock "kill" indie? (Also, did it realign the "rhythmic impulse" towards an alternative to funk-based rhythms?)

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

classic. the song 'TNT' is my favorite tortoise song ever. love that opening guitar melody

6335, Friday, 1 April 2005 19:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah jaymc, I appreciated even more after we had to break it down for a three piece (guitar/upright/drums). I'll definitely post it this weekend!

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

classic. their last necessary release

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:29 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

kyle otm.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I like it. It's a good fusion record.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

yes, a classic, a record I listened to many, many times back in '98 and '99. haven't pulled it out in a while, but I think it's quite an achievement, and apart from a few tracks on "Standards" it's the only Tortoise I like.

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I hated it at first (except for the first track, which has always been great. Incredible guitar tone). Pretty good if you're in the mood for something light and fluffy.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:33 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

(meant to say that I have grown to like it)

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:34 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Since its release, I have not listened to any album more than TNT.
I guess I like it alot.

peepee (peepee), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:36 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Love it.

Omar (Omar), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I'm annoyed that I forgot to bring my iPod to work today. I think I might be in the mood for TNT right now.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:38 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

It's not as good as Millions Now Living, but what is? That album is a fucking titanic monolith of beautiful sounds. TNT is a pretty fine way to follow it up with something very different. Standards: I already have some Adrian Belew albums. the last one: what? huh?

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 1 April 2005 21:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I think I like "Standards" better, but I agree that "TNT" is probably the best the band has managed at what it does well. Still curiously good live, though.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 1 April 2005 21:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I don't know, I find TNT to be a lot richer and prettyier than Millions. I heard TNT first though.

I don't listen to Standards much, but All Around You is great!

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2005 21:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

fucking classic!

they are still killing it at their live shows too. always amazing.

cutty (mcutt), Friday, 1 April 2005 21:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I suppose this and The Fawn and the first Sam Prekop solo record = my late-90s Chicago canon. And Eureka maybe. And not a critical canon, but just the ones I was hearing back then.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2005 22:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

oh, DUD.

RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Friday, 1 April 2005 22:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Por que ?

Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Friday, 1 April 2005 23:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Don't tell my rival dj's but 'the equator' mixes perfect with schaffel!

tylero (tylero), Friday, 1 April 2005 23:50 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I just don't hear anything interesting there. I only heard it three times at most, but there was nothing about it to make me want to listen any further.

RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 2 April 2005 01:16 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

classic classic classic. their best/most accessible album.

rockaction (rockaction), Saturday, 2 April 2005 01:51 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Classique. Always thought it made a good modern companion to Peter Gabriel's Birdy soundtrack.

electricderby, Sunday, 3 April 2005 19:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The Tortoise cover, as promised:

http://www.cleftandcloven.com/tortoise.mp3

Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I just don't hear anything interesting there.

RS, my good friend.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 4 April 2005 02:52 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

That's a great cover Jordan. You should send it to them.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 4 April 2005 03:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I don't know, I find TNT to be a lot richer and prettyier than Millions. I heard TNT first though.
I don't listen to Standards much, but All Around You is great!

OTM

Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:21 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I used to listen to TNT on repeat while studying for my finals in my last year in university. It very much captures spring of 1998 for me, sunrays filtering in my living room in the late evenings. Definitely fluffy.

Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I actually prefer Standards more on the whole - it has a warmer feeling to it but TNT is a total classic and I think the hate for Tortoise springs from the same knee-jerk "I hate Prog" mindset or the "I prefer their old stuff (Slint)" attitude of not actually bothering to listen to it properly.
I really like the track that's kind of gloomy acoustic Morriconesque thing with samples of children playing at the beginning.

dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I think this has been discussed extensively elsewhere, but I always found Standards aimless and boring. Exactly how Tortoise haters usually portray them. All Around You OTH is pretty great.

Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:36 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Anoyone else want to vouch for how they are live at the moment? Quite tempted to make the trip to London to see them with Konono No.1.

NickB (NickB), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I saw them maybe a year or so ago, and they were great. Haven't seen them since IAAY came out.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 4 April 2005 11:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

That's a great cover Jordan. You should send it to them.

Thanks, Hurting! Ha, I don't think I could bring myself do that, but McEntire did just mix a record that the guitarist is on (Cougar), so there's some connection.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Since I started keeping track of what albums I listen to in 1996, "TNT" is tied with "In A Silent Way" for the most listens.

I thought "Standards" had a few really good tracks and some that were kind of meh. I still haven't picked up the last one and missed Tortoise on tour for the first time in a long time.

I was listening to Isis' "Oceanic" while driving at night this past Saturday and I couldn't help but notice how one selection reminded me a bit of Tortoise.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

How on earth do you keep track of albums you play?!

Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I keep a list of every album that I listen to front to back on paper and every couple of days or so I add them to a Access database via a form. It is kind of pedantic ritual, but I find it interesting.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

tnt was the last tortoise thing i really enjoyed... but that's probably timing talking.
m.

msp (mspa), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:59 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Djed == djud, haven't heard anything else from tortoise

a banana (alanbanana), Monday, 4 April 2005 17:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Anybody have any other recommendations for a listener who still adores TNT?
(besides the obvious thrill-jockey stuff).

Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Monday, 4 April 2005 23:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

thirteen years pass...

oh my god it took me way too long to figure out this album is amazing

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Thursday, 7 February 2019 05:19 (one week ago) Permalink

oh yeah, killer album. I only own this and Standards but I pull this one out way more often

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 05:23 (one week ago) Permalink

you ought to check out millions now living

the late great, Thursday, 7 February 2019 05:30 (one week ago) Permalink

If it's in, big call but the first For Carnation album is my favourite of all this stuff.

Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:14 (one week ago) Permalink

Listening to Camofleur for the first time as I type this!

― change display name (Jordan), Friday, February 8, 2019 2:13 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Jealous! Man, to hear 'The Seasons Reverse' again for the first time.

Shaved Cyborg (Old Lunch), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:17 (one week ago) Permalink

I'm seeing Grubbs/McEntire in a month kinda randomly.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:17 (one week ago) Permalink

Jeff Parker's the New Breed from a couple years ago is excellent

https://www.allmusic.com/album/the-new-breed-mw0002945746

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:19 (one week ago) Permalink

^looove that record

So far Camofleur sounds like a nice blend of Isotope 217 (electronics & processed horns) and Sea and Cake (soft pop, not to over-generalize). Really nice.

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:23 (one week ago) Permalink

It's sort of their easy listening album. The earlier stuff was a little more 'difficult'.

Shaved Cyborg (Old Lunch), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:27 (one week ago) Permalink

speaking of post rock first listens

will never forget the first time i heard "Our Exquisite Replica of "Eternity""

the late great, Friday, 8 February 2019 21:37 (one week ago) Permalink

I always do this, but have to recommend the first Cougar album, made by a group of my friends and very much influenced by this music (TNT in particular). And mixed by McEntire.

https://open.spotify.com/album/1rrQX4w2GxuStM713LTEA8?si=D64l8fFxSzmRl31__fVPzQ

Second album is better produced and maybe better overall, but this one has the pretty melodies and is more naturalistic.

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 8 February 2019 21:52 (one week ago) Permalink

xpost My mind was blown then and blown a second time when I saw The Incredible Shrinking Man a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpsu6RV4dJk

Shaved Cyborg (Old Lunch), Friday, 8 February 2019 23:33 (one week ago) Permalink

wow, arches and aisles is great, i don't know how i missed it

love camofleur, david grubbs is underrated, there are two great tribute records from japan from around this time that have plenty of folks from that whole scene, "smiling pets" the beach boys tribute and "rabid chords" the velvet underground tribute, it's a good nutshell of the sort of stuff i was into in those days

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Saturday, 9 February 2019 00:31 (one week ago) Permalink

Totally forgot about Smiling Pets!

Arches and Aisles is a great album, but I'd also recommend the rest of the McEntire-less Spinanes/Rebecca Gates discography. She's fantastic and sadly underrated imo.

Shaved Cyborg (Old Lunch), Saturday, 9 February 2019 02:19 (one week ago) Permalink

<3 this revive

jaymc, Saturday, 9 February 2019 03:14 (one week ago) Permalink

This revive has sent me off down all sorts of rabbit holes. Not even heard of those Japanese tributes. Or the Spinanes.

Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Saturday, 9 February 2019 10:03 (one week ago) Permalink

Great thread revive indeed. Getting pretty nostalgic for that era. Late 90s, Thrill Jockey / Drag City, takes me back to some pretty golden musical days for me.
Had never heard of the Spinanes connection. I'm checking out Arches and Aisles, it's pretty good but it definitely reminds me how Manos was labelled on some ilx thread as perfect music to "listen to alone in your flat with a cup of coffee on a chilly, overcast morning". They just sound so relentlessly dour.

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Sunday, 10 February 2019 13:22 (six days ago) Permalink

Strange, I never considered Tortoise the least bit loose or sloppy. I did generally get the feeling that Herndon and McEntire in particular were trying to "jazz" up the compositions a bit, but the product was always still very stiff and formalized, wed to the original arrangement. Though I seem to recall a few of their earlier shows seeing more one-off experiments, like one I saw with Bitney on a home made electric drum set. Speaking of which:

Tortoise literally sprang from the original Gastr del Sol

Ehhhh ...I mean, there was McEntire and Bundy, who were in Bastro before that with Grubbs. But Bundy and McEntire also played a bit on Seam's first (or second?) album, etc. All these Chicago-y bands at the time were kind of overlapping a bit across a weird Oberlin/post-Slint Louisville axis. (And obviously Doug McCombs, another major Louisville/Chicago connection.) Squirrel Bait, Bastro, Bitch Magnet, Seam, Shrimp Boat (incl. Brad Wood) to Tortoise/Sea and Cake, Gastr del Sol. It was kind of a gradual evolution of line-ups and players. And Idful.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:14 (six days ago) Permalink

don't forget Codeine!

McEntire also played a bit on Seam's first (or second?) album

The drummer on Headsparks (Seam's first album), was none other than Mac McCaughan (and he's great):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT52-pdhEeQ

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:49 (six days ago) Permalink

Mac McCaughan, to tie everything up, is on the new Merge records 'Heroes' album - mentioned on the boards somewhere today.

Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:06 (six days ago) Permalink

Bundy and McEntire play on the the second album, then. Maybe "Sweet Pea?"

Codeine ... not too much overlap there. I think Grubbs appears on one album?

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 20:25 (six days ago) Permalink

The lineup for the first Gastr del Sol album is Grubbs, McEntire and Brown. Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise. It’s not a stretch to say they’re connected. There are moments on Serpentine Similar that definitely point toward the first Tortoise album, if you can look past Grubbs’ very distinctive guitar style.

Obviously both bands evolved immensely after that due to significant additions to their lineups (and the departure of Brown from everything). But it’s interesting to listen to Serpentine and then the Tortoise debut.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:04 (six days ago) Permalink

Checked out The Spinanes 'Arches and Aisles' earlier due to this thread and really like it, thanks!

michaellambert, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:21 (six days ago) Permalink

ok, now i've been tracking grubbs' career and i found out that he's on this arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté, fairly interesting

and yeah obv there's a grubbs-tortoise connection, see also bastro's "antlers: live 1991", which is fucking great

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:00 (six days ago) Permalink

I mean, all these connections and such aren't really particularly interesting bc at the end of the day Tortoise are the only band from the whole scene that is worth shit. Tortoise >>>>>>>>>>>>>> every other band mentioned in this revive

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:34 (six days ago) Permalink

take it to the controp thread, person with bad opinions

Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 10 February 2019 23:21 (six days ago) Permalink

Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise.

I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 11 February 2019 01:06 (five days ago) Permalink

Codeine ... not too much overlap there. I think Grubbs appears on one album?

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, February 10, 2019 12:25 PM (four hours ago)

Doug Scharin (Rex, HiM, Directions In Music) replaced Chris Brokaw on their 2nd album.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 11 February 2019 01:15 (five days ago) Permalink

I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

I mean sure, I don’t know. I’m just trying to make a simple point that there is some stylistic overlap in the GdS album if you listen for it.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 11 February 2019 02:25 (five days ago) Permalink

Wasn't there a book about post-rock's history coming out late last year or this year? I forgot both author and title.

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 11 February 2019 08:08 (five days ago) Permalink

This one, maybe? It came out in 2017.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41qYjStpxWL._SX347_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Monday, 11 February 2019 08:53 (five days ago) Permalink

That was it, thanks!

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 11 February 2019 09:07 (five days ago) Permalink

Chicago Underground Quartet s/t fits in well here too. Jeff Parker's work with Makaya McCraven also worth seeking out (discussed on the rolling jazz thread).

fetter, Monday, 11 February 2019 10:02 (five days ago) Permalink

I thought there were more people from the Tar Babies in the band. or that more of teh band had been in the Tar Babies, certainly thought there was band history in them when i picked up the 2nd lp No Contest on cd. Quite fun hyper funk hardcorish stuff, I think it reminded me of the early meat puppets but coming more from funk instead of bluegrass. Otherwise similar melange of different influences played faster than you're used to from the original influences.
Looks like it's only Dan Bitney that were in them.

Stevolende, Monday, 11 February 2019 10:17 (five days ago) Permalink

Did we mention 5ive Style? Another related side note.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 11 February 2019 13:08 (five days ago) Permalink

Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise.
I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 11 February 2019 01:06 (fourteen hours ago) Permalink

This is my understanding as well, the idea was for Herndon & McCombs, who got to know each other when Precious Wax Drippings & Eleventh Dream Day respectively toured together, to be a kind of rhythm section for hire a la Sly & Robbie. That was the germ at least (and they played one show that way? Opening for the Ex) and as mentioned above there was just a lot of Chicago/Louisville/etc overlap.

chr1sb3singer, Monday, 11 February 2019 15:49 (five days ago) Permalink

arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté

that's a fun record, noel akchote is a curious character

ogmor, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 08:59 (four days ago) Permalink

indeed, i'm listening to his record of weird coltrane arrangements for acoustic guitar. very much along the lines of "huh, this is a coltrane song? i thought i'd heard this one before."

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 14:26 (four days ago) Permalink

ok, now i've been tracking grubbs' career and i found out that he's on this arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté, fairly interesting

that's a fun record, noel akchote is a curious character

I like Akchote's electric work on this Grubbs' song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=737E-NURglE

(McEntire on drums just to stay topical)

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 16:46 (four days ago) Permalink

^ another one that was in heavy rotation around the same time

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:23 (four days ago) Permalink

Totally forgot about that record.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 20:07 (four days ago) Permalink

Anyone else going to be at Pitchfork's Midwinter festival in Chicago this weekend? Lineup is quite good all around, but I'm most looking forward to Tortoise's performance of TNT.

https://midwinter.pitchfork.com/

Indexed, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 20:57 (four days ago) Permalink

Big fan of "Whirlweek." Grubbs's post-Gastr song-based records don't get as much love as O'Rourke's, and they're admittedly a bit spotty, but there's still some good stuff to be found.

jaymc, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 21:05 (four days ago) Permalink

This was listed in Downtown Music Gallery's newsletter of this week, although the release (of another Tortoise sideproject) isn't new: http://www.chicagoodenseensemble.com/

EvR, Friday, 15 February 2019 08:01 (yesterday) Permalink

Found ‘Standards’ pretty rough to get into (I guess I like my Tortoise easy and jazzy) but really liked ‘It’s All Around You’. Surprised not to see it mentioned itt

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Friday, 15 February 2019 10:19 (yesterday) Permalink

It's All Around You was very proto-chillwave

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 15 February 2019 15:31 (yesterday) Permalink

Standards has 'Monica', which is a top 10 Tortoise track for me. It's All Around You was their last great record imo.

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 15 February 2019 15:34 (yesterday) Permalink

It's All Around You is prob my second fave Tortoise (aside from the A Lazarus Taxon b-sides/remixes collection, which I listened to a ton).

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 15 February 2019 15:40 (yesterday) Permalink

pandering to the madison area crowd with that one tho

j., Friday, 15 February 2019 16:27 (yesterday) Permalink

lol

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 15 February 2019 16:35 (yesterday) Permalink

Listening to IAAY and the title track has that great rhythmic illusion going on. I think it's almost entirely down to the drum kit in the left channel doing that persistent 4-against-3 thing?

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 15 February 2019 18:57 (yesterday) Permalink

Five Too Many is almost deconstructed Afrobeat, and continues the proud/shameful tradition of songs with the time signature in the title.

I remember writing an old demo that was basically Afrobeat in 5, it must have been inspired by this.

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 15 February 2019 20:38 (yesterday) Permalink

I like Akchote's electric work on this Grubbs' song:

(McEntire on drums just to stay topical)

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli)

haha, "whirlweek" was the first solo grubbs song i heard, had no idea that was akchote on it!

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Saturday, 16 February 2019 00:50 (five hours ago) Permalink


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