C/D ::: Tortoise's TNT

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I've been witnessing a bit of ILM player hating on one of my favorite bands, Tortoise. The album TNT is utterly classic to me. So, detract if you dare, but; no posts by people unfamiliar with this recording please! (To know it is to love it).

TNT ::: Classique or Duh'd, GO!!

Octavio Coleman (Bobby Peru), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh, I love it.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:19 (fourteen years ago) link

I kinda have to be in the right mood for it these days, though.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Much discussion of this already on some of the many post-rock threads. Jaymc and I = the two who like it?

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

I think there was a lot of love in some of those big post-rock threads, but yeah, it's my favorite Tortoise album.

xpost!

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Maybe this weekend I'll post an mp3 of a jazz trio I used to play with covering 'I Set My Face to the Hillside'.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:21 (fourteen years ago) link

are you kidding me, jordan? pleeeeeeease post it!

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:22 (fourteen years ago) link

that may be my favorite track on the album. it's so well composed.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:23 (fourteen years ago) link

Here's where Nabisco (and I, to a lesser extent) talk about TNT: Class, etc. pt. 4 - Did post-rock "kill" indie? (Also, did it realign the "rhythmic impulse" towards an alternative to funk-based rhythms?)

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:25 (fourteen years ago) link

classic. the song 'TNT' is my favorite tortoise song ever. love that opening guitar melody

6335, Friday, 1 April 2005 19:26 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah jaymc, I appreciated even more after we had to break it down for a three piece (guitar/upright/drums). I'll definitely post it this weekend!

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:28 (fourteen years ago) link

classic. their last necessary release

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:29 (fourteen years ago) link

kyle otm.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:30 (fourteen years ago) link

I like it. It's a good fusion record.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:31 (fourteen years ago) link

yes, a classic, a record I listened to many, many times back in '98 and '99. haven't pulled it out in a while, but I think it's quite an achievement, and apart from a few tracks on "Standards" it's the only Tortoise I like.

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:31 (fourteen years ago) link

I hated it at first (except for the first track, which has always been great. Incredible guitar tone). Pretty good if you're in the mood for something light and fluffy.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:33 (fourteen years ago) link

(meant to say that I have grown to like it)

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Since its release, I have not listened to any album more than TNT.
I guess I like it alot.

peepee (peepee), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Love it.

Omar (Omar), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:37 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm annoyed that I forgot to bring my iPod to work today. I think I might be in the mood for TNT right now.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 1 April 2005 19:38 (fourteen years ago) link

It's not as good as Millions Now Living, but what is? That album is a fucking titanic monolith of beautiful sounds. TNT is a pretty fine way to follow it up with something very different. Standards: I already have some Adrian Belew albums. the last one: what? huh?

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 1 April 2005 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link

I think I like "Standards" better, but I agree that "TNT" is probably the best the band has managed at what it does well. Still curiously good live, though.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 1 April 2005 21:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know, I find TNT to be a lot richer and prettyier than Millions. I heard TNT first though.

I don't listen to Standards much, but All Around You is great!

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 April 2005 21:41 (fourteen years ago) link

fucking classic!

they are still killing it at their live shows too. always amazing.

cutty (mcutt), Friday, 1 April 2005 21:53 (fourteen years ago) link

I suppose this and The Fawn and the first Sam Prekop solo record = my late-90s Chicago canon. And Eureka maybe. And not a critical canon, but just the ones I was hearing back then.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 1 April 2005 22:04 (fourteen years ago) link

oh, DUD.

RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Friday, 1 April 2005 22:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Por que ?

Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Friday, 1 April 2005 23:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Don't tell my rival dj's but 'the equator' mixes perfect with schaffel!

tylero (tylero), Friday, 1 April 2005 23:50 (fourteen years ago) link

I just don't hear anything interesting there. I only heard it three times at most, but there was nothing about it to make me want to listen any further.

RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 2 April 2005 01:16 (fourteen years ago) link

classic classic classic. their best/most accessible album.

rockaction (rockaction), Saturday, 2 April 2005 01:51 (fourteen years ago) link

Classique. Always thought it made a good modern companion to Peter Gabriel's Birdy soundtrack.

electricderby, Sunday, 3 April 2005 19:14 (fourteen years ago) link

The Tortoise cover, as promised:

http://www.cleftandcloven.com/tortoise.mp3

Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 3 April 2005 22:42 (fourteen years ago) link

I just don't hear anything interesting there.

RS, my good friend.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 4 April 2005 02:52 (fourteen years ago) link

That's a great cover Jordan. You should send it to them.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 4 April 2005 03:04 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know, I find TNT to be a lot richer and prettyier than Millions. I heard TNT first though.
I don't listen to Standards much, but All Around You is great!

OTM

Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:21 (fourteen years ago) link

I used to listen to TNT on repeat while studying for my finals in my last year in university. It very much captures spring of 1998 for me, sunrays filtering in my living room in the late evenings. Definitely fluffy.

Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:25 (fourteen years ago) link

I actually prefer Standards more on the whole - it has a warmer feeling to it but TNT is a total classic and I think the hate for Tortoise springs from the same knee-jerk "I hate Prog" mindset or the "I prefer their old stuff (Slint)" attitude of not actually bothering to listen to it properly.
I really like the track that's kind of gloomy acoustic Morriconesque thing with samples of children playing at the beginning.

dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:28 (fourteen years ago) link

I think this has been discussed extensively elsewhere, but I always found Standards aimless and boring. Exactly how Tortoise haters usually portray them. All Around You OTH is pretty great.

Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Anoyone else want to vouch for how they are live at the moment? Quite tempted to make the trip to London to see them with Konono No.1.

NickB (NickB), Monday, 4 April 2005 08:43 (fourteen years ago) link

I saw them maybe a year or so ago, and they were great. Haven't seen them since IAAY came out.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 4 April 2005 11:32 (fourteen years ago) link

That's a great cover Jordan. You should send it to them.

Thanks, Hurting! Ha, I don't think I could bring myself do that, but McEntire did just mix a record that the guitarist is on (Cougar), so there's some connection.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Since I started keeping track of what albums I listen to in 1996, "TNT" is tied with "In A Silent Way" for the most listens.

I thought "Standards" had a few really good tracks and some that were kind of meh. I still haven't picked up the last one and missed Tortoise on tour for the first time in a long time.

I was listening to Isis' "Oceanic" while driving at night this past Saturday and I couldn't help but notice how one selection reminded me a bit of Tortoise.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:01 (fourteen years ago) link

How on earth do you keep track of albums you play?!

Baaderonixxxorzh (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 April 2005 13:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I keep a list of every album that I listen to front to back on paper and every couple of days or so I add them to a Access database via a form. It is kind of pedantic ritual, but I find it interesting.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:12 (fourteen years ago) link

tnt was the last tortoise thing i really enjoyed... but that's probably timing talking.
m.

msp (mspa), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:59 (fourteen years ago) link

Djed == djud, haven't heard anything else from tortoise

a banana (alanbanana), Monday, 4 April 2005 17:02 (fourteen years ago) link

Anybody have any other recommendations for a listener who still adores TNT?
(besides the obvious thrill-jockey stuff).

Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Monday, 4 April 2005 23:25 (fourteen years ago) link

thirteen years pass...

oh my god it took me way too long to figure out this album is amazing

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Thursday, 7 February 2019 05:19 (six months ago) link

oh yeah, killer album. I only own this and Standards but I pull this one out way more often

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 05:23 (six months ago) link

you ought to check out millions now living

the late great, Thursday, 7 February 2019 05:30 (six months ago) link

I hope someone records the TNT set, would love to hear that

Guess I'm the only person who really liked The Catastrophist?

(I like every Tortoise album btw)

― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, February 17, 2019 8:09 AM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was superb. Aside from Grouper, nothing else I saw this weekend came close. They were very tight and cohesive and brought a good amount of energy to the performance.

As someone who never got to see them perform in their heyday, it certainly transformed the way I think about TNT from a headphones/studio/post-production album - mostly driven by its stop-start rhythms and shifting styles - to an actual composition that could translate to the live stage.

Indexed, Tuesday, 19 February 2019 18:09 (six months ago) link

...how many shows did you go to over the weekend?

Evan, Tuesday, 19 February 2019 18:18 (six months ago) link

Festival?

Evan, Tuesday, 19 February 2019 18:19 (six months ago) link

https://midwinter.pitchfork.com/

Indexed, Tuesday, 19 February 2019 18:31 (six months ago) link

the for carnation album is indeed a wondrous thing. Hopefully it one day will be rediscovered

Friedrich B. Neechy (Oor Neechy), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 18:41 (six months ago) link

Brian McMahon whispering 'who did this to us?' at the end of Moonbeams is one of the most heartstopping moments in all of music.

Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 18:53 (six months ago) link

many xps, but whoever posted Parker playing "TNT" upthread should realize that he flubs the riff (or plays it intentionally loose to the point of a flub?).

Here's Pajo playing "Gamera" (a song BKB wrote for the band) live on baritone guitar, almost sounds like a preclude to "TNT":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYdWHwnWxD0

Go to 3:48 on this track for a very similar riff to the one played on TNT, recorded around the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Avr7Y23GgA

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 21:04 (six months ago) link

Yeah, I know what Pajo sounds like. It's possible that he wrote the riff (especially based on the article posted above) but I believe it's Parker playing it. Hearing those clips again only further convinces me -- the tone on TNT doesn't sound like Pajo.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 21:07 (six months ago) link

I call him "PJ" we have a great vibe

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 21:21 (six months ago) link

What is the correct pronunciation of Pajo's name? Asking for a friend.

Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 21:23 (six months ago) link

PJ's cool about it Pah-jo, Pa-ho it's just letters and sounds

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 21:25 (six months ago) link

'Dave'

Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 21:26 (six months ago) link

I mean, I know we all have bad days.... but listening to Parker here is like a jr. high school cover band sitting in, just can't hear him as author of that riff (esp as I've yet to hear him play it "right"!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIkdcYdSfg

xp: pa-ho.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 21:26 (six months ago) link

Huh, I think he's just picking the wrong time to be a jazz dude about it. I mean, he starts playing it straight once the whole band comes in (2 min).

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 22:11 (six months ago) link

This seems relevant to recent discussion:

'imagine a graphic showing all the bands the five members of Tortoise were in' reminded me of this 'a beautiful mind'-esque diagram @WNUR893 gave out to all the freshmen DJs when i was at NU :-) pic.twitter.com/ACAH4KIfFr

— arielle (@reallygordon) February 17, 2019

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 22 February 2019 17:05 (six months ago) link

omg memories
whoa

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 22 February 2019 17:52 (six months ago) link

i feel like there is an extra wing of/appendix to that diagram for all of the jazz/improv stuff happening at the time. very fruitful chicago period!

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 22 February 2019 17:54 (six months ago) link

probably also missing a lot of stuff
also (eleventh dream day) too small

chicago is always fruitful, what am i saying

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 22 February 2019 17:55 (six months ago) link

i feel like something like that chart actually existed online in the late '90s, can't imagine where i saw it, tho

jaymc, Friday, 22 February 2019 17:58 (six months ago) link

Ah, here it is -- a "Squirrel Bait Genealogy"

http://www.chimpomatic.com/file-uploads/large/squirrelbait_family_tree.jpg

And then apparently David Grubbs made his own version more recently:

https://www.paynomindtous.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/squirrel_bait_band_family_tree.jpg

jaymc, Friday, 22 February 2019 18:05 (six months ago) link

Always been a big Tortoise fan but I was a kid/teen during this period and hadn't delved into all these offshoots and related acts. This thread has been super rewarding the past few weeks.

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 22 February 2019 18:16 (six months ago) link

Tortoise genealogy on BandtoBand

felldownawell, Saturday, 23 February 2019 03:34 (five months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Pitchfork shared the entire Midwinter set of TNT I mentioned above.

https://pitchfork.com/news/watch-tortoise-perform-tnt-in-full-at-pitchfork-and-the-art-institute-of-chicagos-midwinter/

https://youtu.be/EwJf5fw57Yo

Indexed, Monday, 18 March 2019 20:32 (five months ago) link

Wow, thanks for that!

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 18 March 2019 20:45 (five months ago) link

nice, i grabbed an aud of the set off dime and it was a fun listen

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Monday, 18 March 2019 21:21 (five months ago) link

I saw John McEntire perform solo a few days ago and it was excellent. First time I'd seen him in any capicity since the mid-90s. Kind of an interesting rig (it's posted on his IG if you follow him).

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 18 March 2019 22:41 (five months ago) link

i listened to the first savath and savalas album today for the first time. parts of it really reminded me of TNT.

mizzell, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 03:09 (five months ago) link

Loving this pfork set, it warms my heart to see all those old dudes playing this music

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 17:20 (five months ago) link

me too!!
that was one of the things i enjoyed about seeing the video :)

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 17:22 (five months ago) link

i find myself very distracted by mcentire’s chest tattoos.

mizzell, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 17:36 (five months ago) link

lol @ playing their own vinyl for 'Almost Always is Nearly Enough', I wondered how they were going to do that (was hoping for sample pad jams).

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 18:12 (five months ago) link

that pfork set is goddamn astonishing

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Thursday, 21 March 2019 00:07 (five months ago) link

I bought this on CD for 4 bucks the other day cuz of this thread *thumbs up* a few friends of mine in HS owned it and played it a lot. The mournful melodica track towards the beginning always made me feel cold and lonely but I'm digging it more now.

brimstead, Thursday, 21 March 2019 01:39 (five months ago) link

The Reichian stuff too.. that annoyed me back then for some reason but I'm liking it now

brimstead, Thursday, 21 March 2019 01:39 (five months ago) link

that pfork set is goddamn astonishing

― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Wednesday, March 20, 2019 5:07 PM (four hours ago)

...except for McCombs on "The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls"... oof. Brutal. Went into a deep flubberage mode and never really got out of it.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 21 March 2019 04:21 (five months ago) link

Just found that Savath and Salas album for £4 on eBay. Good love the internet; god love Chicagoan post-rock.

Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:17 (four months ago) link

Who is the sixth player in that pitchfork set (not counting horns and strings)? One youtube commenter said it's Bundy K Brown.

16 Historic English ILXors You Must Explore Soon (WmC), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:37 (four months ago) link

James Elkington, he was in Brokeback & 11th Dream Day.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/458195-James-Elkington?filter_anv=0&subtype=Instruments-Performance&type=Credits

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:47 (four months ago) link

The guy on bass here:

https://i.imgur.com/I3XqiE5.jpg

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:49 (four months ago) link

...except for McCombs on "The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls"... oof. Brutal. Went into a deep flubberage mode and never really got out of it.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, March 20, 2019 9:21 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i didn't really notice

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:49 (four months ago) link

xp - thanks!

16 Historic English ILXors You Must Explore Soon (WmC), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:57 (four months ago) link

36:28 is when it starts (about 3 seconds of flubs... he immediately loses all looseness and starts playing stiffer)
then the arpeggiations at 37:35 are flubbed
when he comes back in at 38:07 he starts a series of flubs which sets off a total technical breakdown through the following 30 seconds (!), and while he's struggling to recover, thankfully the end of the song comes before soon.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:57 (four months ago) link

i spotted doug mccombs at a voivod/yob show on wed night
that guy can't hide anywhere

also ilx tortoiseheads should know that he is also in a new trio called Black Duck with two other chicago people you should check out (MacKay/McCombs/Rumback)

Black Duck is an enigmatic & electric new outfit out of Chicago that features Douglas McCombs and Bill MacKay on guitars, and Charles Rumback on drums. The trio’s propulsive psych-inflected grooves and ethereal improvisations have found enthusiastic favor with fans of varied temperaments and motivations.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 29 March 2019 20:31 (four months ago) link

man, I've seen Doug McCombs at Whole Foods

jaymc, Friday, 29 March 2019 20:44 (four months ago) link

I interviewed Doug McCombs back in the day - in a pub on the Grays Inn Road, one of only three interviews I ever did in a shit career move that never quite happened. He was easy company. We spent most of the time talking about ATP wankers and Arnold Odermatt.

That is my Doug McCombs story.

Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Friday, 29 March 2019 22:19 (four months ago) link

Got sent a link for this by a friend and during track one felt compelled to email them and say I was only watching more if he could assure me that McEntire survived until the end.

djh, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 20:51 (four months ago) link

lol

change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 20:55 (four months ago) link

"Suspension Bridge ..." is mesmerizing (to watch as well as listen to).

djh, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:37 (four months ago) link

Got sent a link for this by a friend and during track one felt compelled to email them and say I was only watching more if he could assure me that McEntire survived until the end.

― djh, Wednesday, April 3, 2019 3:51 PM (fifty-three minutes ago)

hahaha, he's relaxed like Perry Como in that set compared to the times I've seen them live. Had his stare set to Maim, etc.

ILX Loophole Converts Your IRA/401(k) to Physical Gold (WmC), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:48 (four months ago) link

I visited that bridge this year, true story

(although I think it's been replaced since TNT came out)

change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:48 (four months ago) link


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