Albums in 5.1 surround

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Now that i have 5.1 surround capabilities, who can suggest some must-buy audio-dvds? I'm not talking concert dvds, I'm talking 5.1 mixes of studio albums.

Sam Hunt (robosam), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 01:13 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Get Boredoms to make a 5.1 mix of Vision Creation Newsun.

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 01:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

or uhhh that Flaming Lips album...

Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 01:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

the flaming lips "yoshimi battles the pink robots" in 5.1 is pretty nice. plus you get some pretty nice extras

Aerodynamic (Aerodynamic), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 01:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I really kinda liked "Ah Via Musicom" when they remastered in DVD Audio...

Bryan Moore (Bryan Moore), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yes - Fragile

Woof!

mzui (mzui), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 11:13 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I wish they'd release Zaireeka in 5.1!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 11:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"Fragile" is only OK in surround. You're kind of limited by what's available, but the new surround version of Nine Inch Nail's "Downward Spiral" is good, as is Fleetwood Mac's "Say You Will." Oh, and "Automatic for the People" and anything by Steely Dan. The last Dan in particular sounds good in surround. And Zeppelin's "How the West was Won."

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Am currently saving up for an operation to attach three more ears to my head, I will report on my findings.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Rings Around The World is great.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Neil Young is the subtle master of 5.1

Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:48 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Neil Young is subtle at anything?!?!?

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:50 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

the overdubs come through the rear speakers, it's all very simple

Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:56 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ref: greendale 2nd edition "making of" dvd

Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 16:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Pig Destroyer's "Natasha." 30-minutes of surround-sound creepiness.
-chadly con Queso

chadly con queso (chadly con queso), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 16:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Refused - Shape of Punk to Come is done pretty well, if at times a bit gimmicky.

Also, most of the Residents DVD's have the music redone in 5.1, which makes the creepiness somehow more tangible, I think.

John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 16:48 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Stop Making Sense is pretty great (audience sounds in the rear)

Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 16:50 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Get Boredoms to make a 5.1 mix of Vision Creation Newsun.

Please GOD! LET THIS HAPPEN!

dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 17:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

There's a 5.1 DVD-A version of Amon Tobin's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory soundtrack in the works. Perfect match for the technology, no?

superultramega (superultramarinated), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 17:23 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ten months pass...
Any more suggestions?

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 04:45 (twelve years ago) Permalink

the flaming lips just put out the soft bulletin in 5.1 and it's really sweet.

Christopher Costello (CGC), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 04:48 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Strange, I heard that the FLips' mixes were kinda shitty. It'd probably be tough work to make Soft Bulletin sound like shit, though.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 05:10 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Of the ones I've heard on a good surround sytem, the Earth Wind & Fire albums are a huge improvement on the old SQ matrix quad albums I remember from the 70s, and Medulla is just fucking mind-blowing. A whole different album.

brianiast 5.1 (briania), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 06:00 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Y'know, I'd really love a 5.1 mix of Salt Marie Celeste (or however you spell it) by NWW. I think that album'd be a hell of a lot of fun in surround.

js (honestengine), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 07:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

The 5.1 mix of Beck's Sea Change is surprisingly good

Dr Benway (dr benway), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 09:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

5.1 is a waste of time. just fuck with your speaker set up. negatives and positives in the wrong place do wonders.

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 09:16 (twelve years ago) Permalink

The Flaming Lips 5.1 mix of Yoshimi is, well, pretty much what you'd expect from the Lips: different than any other 5.1 (that I've heard, anyway). Whereas a lot of 5.1s stick everything up front and reverb/atmospherics in the back, Yoshimi doesn't even begin to attempt this. On one song the music circles around you in a ring, every instrument except the voice slowly circling from front to back, left to right. Sometimes the vocal and/or melody is buried in the back to let the drums and effects take center stage. There's a lot of movement in the mix - something is almost always zipping around the soundstage. It's basically half of what they were trying to accomplish with Zaireeka - a new way of looking (listening, rather) to an album. Trading the listener's autonomy for, frankly, the ability to ever get to hear the album (I've owned Zaireeka for six years and I've only gotten people together to experience it twice), the 5.1 mix of Yoshimi is really what the Lips are about, pushing the envelope (and blurring the lines) of their whole album/performance experience. The 5.1 really is a Zaireeka for one; it's not a casual listening experience at all. There's a pretty enjoyable aesthetic and ritualistic quality to it; since it's dvd-a it isn't portable, you really have to settle yourself into your chair, center yourself, get the speaker levels correct, then get it playing and pay attention. It isn't a relaxing experience, it's pretty chaotic and intense, there are a lot of things going on in the mix to grab your attention. It's not a good way to get into the album qua album, and also not something you can listen to on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong, it's not *that* different, it's Dark Side of The Moon with some creative mixing, but it is unique.

I don't know what the deal with the Soft Bulletin mix is, as I'm back down to 2.1 for now, though I bet it'd be pretty similar.

D.J. Anderson, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 12:53 (twelve years ago) Permalink

which version of "medulla" has the 5.1 mix on it?
there's a ltd. edition cd/sacd version and a dvd version.

Christopher Costello (CGC), Friday, 3 March 2006 22:01 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

revive.
any others i need to check out ?
i only have the recent reissue of the War Of The Worlds album in 5.1 and it sounds brilliant.
unfortunately, this is the only 5.1 surround sound album i have so cant compare etc.
but fuck, its brought this electro-disco-prog classic totally to life so wanting more.

mark e, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 17:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

the first 4 TALKING HEADS.

pisces, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 17:28 (ten years ago) Permalink

it took the Remain In Light remaster to make me a believer, but boy howdy did it ever do the trick.

also I will cosign on the love for Dan in 5.1 - are there even any available besides Gaucho (which I bought and love) and Fagan's first solo album (which I can't find for less than like $40)?

jamescobo, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 17:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

I listened to the 5.1 version of Opeth's "Ghost Reveries" the other day while home sick ... it was an excellent distraction from the flu.

Brad C., Wednesday, 20 February 2008 20:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

The 5:1 version of David Crosby's "If I Could Only Remember My Name" is surprisingly good considering the limited number of tracks used during the recording.

Also, the recent Depeche Mode mixes. Particularly "Exciter" and "Playing The Angel", which were seemingly recorded with surround in mind to a bigger extent than the earlier stuff.
I was slightly more disappointed by the Genesis mixes, although "One For The Vine" sounds wonderful in surround.

Also note that Porcupine Tree have become a favourite of 5:1 enthusiasts because of their excellent 5:1-mixes.

are there even any available besides Gaucho (which I bought and love) and Fagan's first solo album (which I can't find for less than like $40)?

All of Fagen's three solo albums are included in the "Nightfly Collection" box set. And they all sound excellent althoug "Nightfly" is of course the superior album musically

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 22:10 (ten years ago) Permalink

I don't know what the deal with the Soft Bulletin mix is

I have the "Video Overview In Deceleration" DVD and all of the surround mixes are the same radical and highly psychedelic kind as the "Yoshimi" ones.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 22:12 (ten years ago) Permalink

Also, the Peter Gabriel mixes on his DVD video collection are great. As I don't have SACD on the computer (where the surround speakers are), I haven't got the surround versions of the albums, but the hits sound excellent on that video compilation.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 22:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

actually i remember a discussion i had a few years ago in which someone told me that many albums are now mixed in 5.1 just that its not officially mentioned on the albums sleeves. eg. gorillaz.

is that correct - or one of those crap things to say at a party things.

also, if you rip a 5.1 cd into mp3 form, when you playback the mp3s are the 5.1 extras stil apparent in the mix.

apologies if this is all a bit numpty-esque, but until a few days ago, i didnt give 5.1 a single thought.

mark e, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 22:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

What I know is that The Orb gives you an obvious illusion of surround when listening to their ordinary albums on a surround set, even though they aren't technically 5:1. I mean, just try to listen to "Orblivion" on a 5:1-set and you know what I mean.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 22:17 (ten years ago) Permalink

has anyone mixed zaireeka to 5.1

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 22:42 (ten years ago) Permalink

Not that I know, and there are no "Zaireeka" tracks on that video compilation DVD either.

Geir Hongro, Thursday, 21 February 2008 00:42 (ten years ago) Permalink

I listened to the 5.1 version of Opeth's "Ghost Reveries" the other day while home sick

wauuuuuuuuuu

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 21 February 2008 00:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

Anyone have comments on the Nick Cave 5.1 releases?

suspecterrain, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 03:00 (seven years ago) Permalink

I heard the SACD (5.1?) mix of Dylan's Desire, and it's a pretty tremendous mix. Would like to check out the other reissues if they're like this one.

Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 19 July 2011 03:08 (seven years ago) Permalink

You know, I will say this. I haven't heard a 5.1 mix yet that hasn't allowed me to hear all sorts of stuff I never noticed before. I interviewed Tony Visconti once, and he talked about how listening to "Electric Warrior" in 5.1 reveals how all these folks have been covering "Bang a Gong" incorrectly all these years, for example. I think it's also important to get into the mindset that stereo is in a lot of ways an artificial construct. We don't hear music live in stereo, and the room it's recorded in isn't usually "stereo" either. It's just that stereo is an illusion, a convenience, that we've simply grown accustomed to.

That said, 5.1 is a pain in the ass. So there's that.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 July 2011 04:13 (seven years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

Revive!

Are there any good ambient albums in surround sound? You'd think the format would we ideal for ambient music, but all I've managed to find are the surround DTS discs Pete Namlook put out on FAX in the years before his death... So any recommendations beyond the FAX stuff?

Tuomas, Friday, 3 October 2014 11:31 (four years ago) Permalink

Robert Rich does stuff in surround:
http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/rrich-atlasdei?song=1

Siegbran, Friday, 3 October 2014 11:56 (four years ago) Permalink

Hmm seems that this is just the CD.

BT's "This Binary Universe" comes with a 5.1 DTS DVD, it's an excellent album (has nothing to do with his trance stuff, it's all IDM/Ambient).

Siegbran, Friday, 3 October 2014 12:04 (four years ago) Permalink

Thanks for the BT recommendation, it sounds dope!

Tuomas, Friday, 3 October 2014 12:17 (four years ago) Permalink

There are also a number of (sonically) excellent Schiller live discs, like the "Sonne Live" Blu-Ray from last year, and "Atemlos Live". Schiller's prog rock-like "big stadium ambient" is not to everyone's tastes though, I can only stomach it in small doses.

Siegbran, Friday, 3 October 2014 12:27 (four years ago) Permalink

The first 5.1 audio DVD album thing I got?

Jonathan Richman - Roadrunner, the Beserkley years

Mark G, Friday, 3 October 2014 12:48 (four years ago) Permalink

Another great 5.1 studio album is Tipper "Surrounded".

Siegbran, Friday, 3 October 2014 12:52 (four years ago) Permalink

three months pass...

The two King Crimson boxes I got (Larks Tongues and Starless) have surround mixes tho I've just begun to scratch the surface of those boxes as they're massive.

I gather the Roxy Music Avalon mix is outstanding.

As for ambient, I agree. John Foxx's Cathedral Oceans got the 5.1 treatment but I haven't heard it.

Would love to hear the Lips records and Crosby. Imagine stuff like "Orleans" is incredible.

Personally, I think this is a super promising medium – and can't wait for the streaming services to start carrying these things (Onkyo has some partnership in Japan to that end that hasn't really made it over here yet). Even still, I suppose I can wait – I only have four channels set up on my system (no center channel or sub yet).

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 26 January 2015 04:42 (three years ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

Bump this, people, as I just bought a center channel.

Per the Yes thread, would love to hear Relayer in 5.1.

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 21 February 2015 16:33 (three years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

I am moving house soon and will finally have the space to put together a modest surround setup for music listening (and a little movie watching), I have so many 5.1 mixes now that I've never heard and have started going back through old hard drives and digging out old decoded Quad mixes that I found online to have ready, although I'm not sure how I will play them just yet, burn them to DVD perhaps.

I get the feeling that there are not many people on here who listen to music in surround or don't think it a big enough deal for discussion and this revive might be verrry lonely but I'd like to hear any recommendations or tips/tricks.

One thing I'm not keen on is getting a subwoofer, instead, I might just try to use full range rear speakers, any help is appreciated.

MaresNest, Monday, 12 November 2018 19:27 (one month ago) Permalink

Are you into classical music? A lot of classical recordings in the last 10-15 years have been released as 5.1 SACDs, and there's plenty of stuff that uses the space effect you get with surround well.

Tuomas, Monday, 12 November 2018 19:32 (one month ago) Permalink

Oh, thanks! That never even occurred to me, I'd love to hear some favourite composers like Ives, Adams, Reich, Xenakis, Ligeti, Carter and so on.

I have the Kraftwerk set already, looking forward to digging into that!

MaresNest, Monday, 12 November 2018 19:38 (one month ago) Permalink

Since I last posted, I bought a bunch of these and like them all, really:

Super Furry Animals – RATW and Phantom Power (really fun and experimental)
Flaming Lips – Soft Bulletin, Yoshimi, AWWTM (all great and wacky)
David Crosby – If I Could Only Remember My Name (really good)
Todd Rundgren – Liars (pretty good mix for a great album)
Talking Heads – Remain In Light (exceptional as evidenced by the downmixes)
Kraftwerk – Minimum Maximum (unsurprisingly also exceptional)

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 12 November 2018 21:59 (one month ago) Permalink

Good stuff above, add Chicago GH

bodacious ignoramus, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 15:52 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I have a friend who has Division Bell and it sounds amazing. Not my favorite PF record but it sounds like the band is playing in your living room.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 13 November 2018 16:16 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Is there a way to get the Flaming Lips ones without paying crazy prices?

Position Position, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 16:20 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Crazy prices? They're all, like, $20 on Amazon. I think that's about what I paid.

Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 21:55 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Does the daft punk interstella DVD have a true 5.1 mix, or did they just double up/reverb tracks?

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 22:06 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I have that on bluray, but for some reason I've never really given it a proper listen. I'll do that once I have the time, will report back here.

Tuomas, Monday, 26 November 2018 21:25 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Okay, I listened to it, and it is genuine surround mix... Though the back channels are mostly used create a space effect, most of the action is in the front and middle channels.

If you wanna hear albums that seriously use the back speakers to do some crazy things, you should get Isao Tomita's quadraphonic albums from the 70s, they've all been released on SACD in recent years. The Debussy one is k my favourite, it sounds incredible. Though the most ridiculous surround effects are probably on his version of Holst's Planets.

Tuomas, Monday, 3 December 2018 17:53 (one week ago) Permalink

Cool. Are there any such albums also on DVD, or are they all SACD-only?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 3 December 2018 18:08 (one week ago) Permalink

Perhaps a stupid question, but when you're listening to a 5.1 CD, what setting should you use on your receiver? Standard or something else?
When I listen to CDs, I usually go with an all-channel stereo setting, but I doubt I'd be getting the full effect with a 5.1 mix. I don't see any specific setting on my Pioneer for a 5.1 mix for CDs.

Jazzbo, Monday, 3 December 2018 18:18 (one week ago) Permalink

Cool. Are there any such albums also on DVD, or are they all SACD-only?
I don't think so, but if you wanna enter the SACD world, Sony's BDP-S6200 model is fairly cheap DVD/Bluray player that also plays SACDs (or DSD files, if you're downloading your music). It's the one I have.

I mentioned this on the SACD thread, but for some reason even Sony's official website doesn't mention state it, but when you connect the BDP-S6200 to the net, and update the firmware, it adds a SACD/DSD decoding option that isn't in the factory settings, and after that you can play the 5.1 layer on SACDs (or DSD files from a memory stick). The player costs less than 200 euros, so it's much cheaper than most other SACD players, which tend to be made by audiophile brands like Marantz.

Tuomas, Monday, 3 December 2018 18:48 (one week ago) Permalink

Perhaps a stupid question, but when you're listening to a 5.1 CD, what setting should you use on your receiver? Standard or something else?
When I listen to CDs, I usually go with an all-channel stereo setting, but I doubt I'd be getting the full effect with a 5.1 mix. I don't see any specific setting on my Pioneer for a 5.1 mix for CDs.
You need a receiver that can decode a surround signal... Playing the all-channel stereo doesn't do that, it just replicates the stereo signal to the back and middle speakers, so any 5.1 action is lost. These kind of receivers are usually marketed A/V receivers, as most people buy them to play movie audio through them. People who want to listen to music in 5.1 are such a niche market that I think only audiophile brands produce receivers specifically for them.

The receiver I use is the Yamaha RX-V673, it's an A/V receiver, but it has a lot of settings for music too, and it sounds quite good to my (non-golden) ears. It was 700 euros when I bought it but probably cheaper now, I'd definitely recommend it if you wanna invest in a surround system. (It supports 7.1 too, but that's too crazy even for me, no way is there space for those middle speakers in our apartment.)

Tuomas, Monday, 3 December 2018 19:00 (one week ago) Permalink

Oh, sorry, I think I misunderstood you, so your receiver does have a surround option, but you're asking how to play CDs with a 5.1 sound?

Well, regular CDs can't have a surround sound coded in them, it's not technically possible. Only SACDs do, and for those you need a dedicated SACD player, like the one I mentioned before. Some 5.1 receivers, like the Yamaha I have, do have an option for "fake surround", i.e. a setting that codes a stereo signal into something resembling surround that plays in all speakers. But I mostly use it with movies/TV shows that are in stereo, because IMO it emphasises the middle speaker too much, and at least in my set it's the smallest one, so I don't like having so much of the music coming through it.

So for music I just use the "play stereo through all speakers" setting, which has more oomph, but obviously there's no surround effect then, not even a simulated one. But IMO there's no point of playing music mixed to stereo with the fake surround effect. It works nicer with TV shows in stereo, because it puts the dialogue into the middle speaker, which makes it easier to hear.

Tuomas, Monday, 3 December 2018 21:06 (one week ago) Permalink

DVD Audio discs play 5.1 as would its Blu-ray equivalent.

bodacious ignoramus, Monday, 3 December 2018 21:16 (one week ago) Permalink

Yeah, they do, but DVD-audio discs need a player that can decode them, and many players, such as mine, only decode DVD-video, not DVD-audio (as DVD-A discs were an audiophile thing that never really took flight). Thankfully most audio DVDs have separate DVD-A and DVD-V layer, so you can get the surround sound with even a regular DVD-V player. The bitrate will be lower, but I think you really need to have the proverbial golden ears to notice any difference.

Tuomas, Monday, 3 December 2018 21:32 (one week ago) Permalink

With blurays there's thankfully no such differences in decoding, as far as I know. If you have bluray player, it should be able to play any 5.1 audio bluray just fine.

Tuomas, Monday, 3 December 2018 21:41 (one week ago) Permalink

Yep. My Samsung BD-J6300 Blu-ray player does not call out DVD-A specifically but plays every DVD-A disc in 5.1 surround that i've put into it connected simply over a HDMI cable.

bodacious ignoramus, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 18:38 (one week ago) Permalink

Revive!

Are there any good ambient albums in surround sound? You'd think the format would we ideal for ambient music, but all I've managed to find are the surround DTS discs Pete Namlook put out on FAX in the years before his death... So any recommendations beyond the FAX stuff?

What are the best FAX 5.1 releases?

Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 7 December 2018 04:35 (five days ago) Permalink

My absolute favourites are the 5 Labyrinth albums (Namlook and Lorenzo Montana), which have a really crisp and chill home-listening electro sound. The 5.1 sound is used nicely to emphasise both the mood and rhythm elements of the tracks, it sounds really cool and evocative.

Another big favourite are the two Elektronik (Namlook and Material Object) albums, they're the sort of gritty, experimental techno that's kinda atypical of FAX. Really excellent drum and rhythm programming, which sounds devastating in the 5.1 mix.

The final 2350 Broadway album is also in surround, it has some beautifully serene, enveloping drones, probably my favourite in that series. The Namlook/Le Mar album also has some nice drones as well as techno/electro tracks with beats, one of them especially uses the 5 channels for some fun, geeky gimmicks.

The Namlook/Move D albums of the 5.1 era are more varied in quality, but there are some gems among them too, especially the Raumland trilogy and Space & Time. They're kinda samey and the surround sound isn't used as noticeably as on some other releases, but there are some nice sci-fi effects on those too.

Namlook's 5.1 era solo albums are of more acquired taste, he seemed to put his more experimental drives there. The Urban Meditation series is mostly grey, foreboding drones, and the Pearl series is like modern electronic classical. Iterations is a unique album that experiments with loops that change every iteration. I think it's a fascinating idea, and the surround sound supports it effectively, but again, whether you like it depends on how you find this kind of experimental electronics. The only non-experimental solo work he released in this period is Subconscious Worlds, a fun, spacey techno album, kinda in the same mold as the Move D collabs, but without the irritating stretched vocal samples. If you like "classic" early-to-mid-90s FAX, that one is well worth checking out.

The final Dark Side of the Moog (XI) is also in 5.1. I'm not the biggest fan of that project, but the last album is one of the better entries in it, though I don't remember the surround sound doing much else than deepening the space drones. But if you like the DSotM series, it's certainly something you should hear.

Tuomas, Friday, 7 December 2018 21:26 (five days ago) Permalink

DSOTM XI ?
hang on …

mark e, Friday, 7 December 2018 22:19 (five days ago) Permalink


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