Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

UPDATE: My speaker wire was connected to the right main and right remote outputs. I fixed the problem.

I'd like to thank everyone who was with me from the beginning, without your help this project may have never been completed. I'm confident that with the teamwork displayed in the last couple of days our dream of sending an ex-member of the Velvet Underground to the moon will soon become a reality.

This seems as good a place as any to ask this question ... has anybody bought that new VU seven inch singles thing that Sundazed just put out? I don't really want to buy it, BUT: the mix of "I Heard Her Call My Name" is apparently vastly different. Would like to hear this ... mp3 anywhere?

haha I was wondering which thread to revive to discuss the "Nuns Are On The Seawall" blog...

i.e Velvets bootlegs S/D

the 'Ultimate Mono and Acetates Album' has some of those singles but not all. it does have the mono WL/WH which is really different at least on Lady Godiva's Operation, I guess I should listen to it. that may be the version of "Call My Name" you refer to.

also loving:

the Pre-VU Preview, all the demos of early 60's Reed/Cale pop music
Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland 68)
CDs from a certain minimalist composr who shall remain anonymous

Yeah, I've got that Ultimate Mono Acetates thing -- from what I understand, this mix of "Heard" is unheard until now? Less of Lou's guitar, more of the band. Or something ... But anyway -- yeah! Pre-VU is crazy, really incredible. Drop in some references to methamphetamine and "Do The Ostrich" could be on White Light/White Heat, easy. Crazy that, according to the Unterberger VU Day By Day book, there's a solo version of "Heroin" recorded during the Pickwick era. Probably sounds similar to the versions on the 1st disc of "Peel Slowly" but I'd still love to hear it.

I've got it on order, will let you know...

Cool!
Someone over on the Velvet Forum sez: "the mix of I Heard Her Call My Name is insane. At first I thought that there was a mistake in the pressing as Lou's opening vocals ("here comes count down...' ) are way down in the mix and actually sound muffled. Then they pick up a little with 'Ever since...'. Sterling's guitar is up and so it Cale's bass. For the first 30 seconds or so it sounds like a kind of lo-fi garage sound and then later the sound gets bigger with more of the impact we know. But overall the balance is restored so that you can hear Sterling's lovely rhythm guitar work and Cale's bass, which is really great. Cale's bass sound is amazing on this mix and then also makes you realised how low the bass is in the mix on most of the White Light LP."

Hmm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0847833550/ref=pe_5050_13305760_snp_dp
$189
Little bit annoying that they're putting out all of this collector-bait stuff these days and not putting out unreleased stuff. Or barely any unreleased stuff.

A while ago, I did my own mix of "Heard Her Call My Name" with less Lou and more of the band just for fun, anyone can do it

ysi?

From that Velvet Forum, here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

-The demo tape Cale took to England
-Summit High School tape
-Bizarre footage
-Delmonico´s tape
-Boston Tea Party footage(any news on this, by the way?)
-La Cave 68 tape
-Hippodrome 68 tape
-Nelson Video tape 70
-Rhode Island School of Design, Providence, Rhode Island
-May 11, 1965 Pickwick Studios, near Long Island City, New York
-Donald Jackson VU footage
-Danny Williams VU footage
-The Primitives tape
-Ronald Nameth Vu footage
-Matrix Tapes
-Seattle 69 tape

I don't know how to do that! (xp)

-The demo tape Cale took to England

I'd be surprised if this still existed! Very! The Matrix Tapes is what we want!!!!!

xpost

what the hell is that? a 304-page hardback book, yeah, but what about the single with it?

hate it when Amazon has no info about the product.

and hey that Seattle 69 show is on the Nuns Are On The Seawall blog, it's listed as Retinal Circus. first new show (to me) to surface since the Gymnasium.

!!! Had no idea ... Thanks! Is it good?

more from that Velvet Forum:
-the full Gymnasium tape
-the cale/sterling/reed rehearsals from cale loft 1966
-uncut recent Factory 66 tape

here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

i'm still hoping that footage of them on Upbeat! shows up somewhere. Lots of clips from that show are in circulation, but considering they made a handful of appearances i'm surprised nothing's around. About one of the shows: "The Velvets performed live on the Upbeat TV show in June 1968 (not June 1967). Moreover, contrary to Sterling Morrison's recollection, they performed a blistering, buzzsaw version of Run Run Run. Their rendition of Run Run Run went beyond their alloted time: thus, Upbeat cut away to a commercial while the Velvets were engaged in feedback frenzy with Lou's back to the camera."

that would be awesome. There was some comment (I think from Moe Tucker) that she couldn't believe, with all the cameras the Warhol crew had going all the time, no one just filmed a straight ahead version of one of the EPI shows.

Is it good?

here's wl/wh:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/8j4j7c

it's a soundboard!!! the only one I know of besides those Matrix tapes. as a result the vox are too loud and the guitars a bit subdued, but the overall recording is much clearer. I still think Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland Oct. 68) is my favorite live boot, love the guitar sound on that.

that's a flac btw

Already downloading from The Nuns site ... So weird that this stuff just keeps showing up. One thing I'm super interested in (that hasn't seen the light of day afaik) is a studio version of "Beginning to See the Light" with Cale.

WHAT????!??!

those Velvets Forum trainspotters mean business man.

http://www.paulvates.com/images/gatwickshuttle.jpg

But yeah, the "Beginning" with Cale is mentioned in the Unterberger book - recorded at the "Mr. Rain" session apparently? With "fuzz bass"? There was talk of it appearing on a projected WL/WH "deluxe edition, I think. Which never came out obv.

LOL, yeah, obv.

But ... maybe now that this singles set has come out, there's a chance of more VU material coming out officially? I think I read that Lou wasn't into having any more live stuff come out.

Hmmm, so I'm listening to this "Retinal Circus" VU show -- and I'm pretty sure some of these takes are the same as appear on Live 1969. Haven't a/b'd them or anything. It's an uncut tape of the show, though, which hasn't circulate as far as I know ... I think that those songs were thought to be from the Matrix, wonder what the deal is! MYSTERY. Sounds great, anyway.

yeh, the wh/wh posted above is the same as the version on the live 69 album

er wl/wh

Yeah, same w/ "heroin", "what goes on", "new age" so far. it's funny to hear these songs w/ audience applause -- on 1969 they cut off almost immediately, sort of giving the impression that the VU was playing to barely anyone. But here they've got a totally enthusiastic crowd. And why not, considering the godlike awesomeness of this "What Goes On."

A bit like Lou's "No street slang" rule, because Street slang dates a thing.

And yet....

Are the VU mixes used on that Velvet comp released in the late '80s that for many of us Columbia House subscribers served as intro?

Yep. These were the only mixes available until the 2014 3rd album box.

We talkin' this comp?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/VUBest89.jpg

If you like...

i'd say that both Lou and Sterling's playing is deeply bluesy (without falling into cliche) — they may have had a very specific definition of what a "blues lick" was.

― tylerw, Thursday, April 8, 2021 12:58 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm reminded of what Dylan supposedly said to Mike Bloomfield: "Play whatever you want; just don't give me any of that B.B. King shit." That always confused me, and probably confused Bloomfield, who revered King.

Someone at the record company might also have hoped that "I Can't Stand It" was going to get heavy airplay next to "We Built This City" and needed the sonics to match it.

Wasn't completely crazy, and they probably were trying to get it slotted next to REM, Smithereens, Cars and the other VU'ish rock of the time. The songs weren't that old yet, sorta like remastering the Knife's "Silent Shout" to get played next to Weeknd or something.

We talkin' this comp?

Yes!

And y'all are crazy if you think it sounds like, I dunno, Tears For Fears.

OK, but the drum sound could be off of Mellencamp's Scarecrow, for instance.

i'd say that both Lou and Sterling's playing is deeply bluesy (without falling into cliche) — they may have had a very specific definition of what a "blues lick" was.

Lou played whatever he could manage to play. Sterl definitely could pull out a blues lick if required.

Lou's chaka-chaka rhythm parts on Live 1969 are some of my favorites by anyone.

David Fricke: There is that little guitar quote from Marvin Gaye’s “Hitch Hike” in “There She Goes Again,” on ‘The Velvet Underground and Nico.’

Lou' A nice little introductory thing, right? The thing is, we actually had a rule in the band for a while. If anybody played a blues lick, they would be fined. Of course, we didn’t have any money to fine anybody with. But that was because there were so many of these blues bands around, all copping on that. And while I really liked the stuff for singing, I can’t sing that. I had to find my own way. So all the arranging and stuff, those R&B kind of parts might be in the back of the mind, but it came out white.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/lou-reed-the-rolling-stone-interview-2-174015/

How widespread is "fining" among bands? I know James Brown and Prince used to fine people for musical mistakes. Prince would sneak the money back into the person's pocket somehow after they learned their lesson. I want to say James Brown did too, but I can't recall where I would have read that, and furthermore I can see him just keeping the money given how his entire band quit on him.

Apparently, the fines went towards paying for the end-of-tour party.

Basically most rock music is going to be bluesy in some fashion, lots of flat sevenths, for one thing. Blues cliches is more like what Freddie "Boom Boom" Washington would play on airbass on Welcome Back, Kotter.

Electricity comes from other planets!

I think Lou wanted to also incorporate more hidden or overt doo wop influences- there is some quote in Uptight or somewhere about "We musn't forget people like The Spaniels," as well as trying to avoid a "Can Lou Men Sing the Whites" situation.

Think the VU-like Vulgar Boatmen did a similar thing. Hey, VUlgar Boatmen!

https://www.furious.com/perfect/vulgarboatmen.html

Commenting on why the band's love of early, rhythmic rock 'n' roll - particularly rhythm and blues - is not always recognized in the band's music, Ray (who attributes his love of R&B to a childhood spent in Memphis) suggests, "Neither Dale nor I (nor anyone currently on the planet) can sing like Otis Redding... I listen to Bo Diddley (especially "Hey! Bo Diddley") every single week, and I own, and regularly play, every Impressions album." Lawrence says: "Whether it's subtlety on our part or the fact that that era's music tends not to be taken as seriously as it deserves to be, I'm not sure." It's certainly not unusual for a given set of musicians to draw on musical influences that are not always directly evident in what fans are familiar with or have even heard.

“We actually had a rule in the band,” Reed explained. “If anybody
played a blues lick, they would be fined. Everyone was going crazy over
old blues people, but they forgot about all those groups, like the Spaniels,
people like that. Records like ‘Smoke From Your Cigarette,’ and ‘I Need
a Sunday Kind of Love,’ the ‘Wind’ by the Chesters, ‘Later for You, Baby’
by the Solitaires. All those really ferocious records that no one seemed to
listen to anymore were underneath everything we were playing. No one
really knew that.”

Although isn't "The Wind" by Nolan Strong and The Diablos? Also a Jonathan Richman favorite iir.

That quote can be found here, with The Chesters slightly more correctly written as The Jesters, close but no cigar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillian_Leach

The men don't know but Frank Zappa understands.

Nolan Strong did it first but there were other versions of The Wind in circulation

its always been kind of adorable to me how for a band so famous for frank and transgressive lyrical content, lous actual word choices (during the velvets years anyway) so often tended towards 50s doo wop jive. like how in their murder-orgy-freakout song he's talking about his "dingdong".

It was Lou's hated Jefferson Airplane who first put "motherfucker" on a major-label record.

Oh yeah, The Jesters did cover it and have some kind of minor hit with it.

Zappa was another big fan of The Spaniels, it's true.

a Welshman who tried to mail himself home in a box in 1965, I wonder if Cale read about it at the time
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/08/thinking-inside-the-box-the-welsh-teen-who-tried-to-post-himself-home-from-australia

Lou hated the Airplane(?)

I would imagine so, given what I've read about the rivalry w/ the Fillmore etc.

Think that was one of his top two hates, the one he didn’t induct into the RnRHoF.

Plus I believe they played a lot of blues licks

lol

I have wondered in the past - if you gave me a time machine and a ticket to see only (1) of those bands on their best night, which would you choose? - and man, that thought experiment is some Fillmore Jive.

You could have seen the Fugs, the Dead and the Velvets all on the same night in Pittsburgh in 1969.

sold

Unfortunately all three bands performed nothing but Englebert Humperdinck covers that night.

Lou hated the Airplane(?)

I assumed Zappa hated them too, because said he hated all the SF bands for being folk rockers with no groove, but then he's on one of their albums I think?

would you like a snack?

i do have a memory of reading somewhere or other zappa giving some sort of praise to the sf bands for doing interesting things musically with the caveat that they didn't actually know what they were doing or that they were doing it (or something along those lines)

You could have seen the Fugs, the Dead and the Velvets all on the same night in Pittsburgh in 1969.

hot damn! would go.

when the question is "did zappa hate ____?", the answer is always yes

With a handful of exceptions to throw you off the trail, but yeah.

big mystery:

http://velvetforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145988

Hmm, interesting.

That one could get matched to the instrumental studio take

wild! i guess I'm not *entirely* convinced that crowd noise at the beginning + end is genuine but who knows ... it's definitely a different vocal and solo than any other versions? I think?

Definitely. It does sound a bit like a solo Lou Reed demo with a recording of the band way back in the the mix.

Think what Dylan may have meant, at least in part, by that B. B. King shit was this kind of constipated->squeezed out, agonized artistic offerings of totally received solos that Bloomfield (like some others) did play sometimes, like on Super Sessions---if he found Dylan's order confusing, so much the better, worked out great.

(Not that all of Super Sessions was like that, but v. noticeable when ever he of all high-flying 60s cats lapsed thus.)

xxp seems like it could be a soundboard/PA recording from a small room, just the gtr & vox going through the PA, the bass & drums are clearly there just not patched in. still doesnt explain the obviously fake crowd noise though?

Someone is trying to convince you it's from the Marvi/Tammi show 'Upbeat'

when the question is "did zappa hate ____?", the answer is always yes

https://alextemplemusic.com/2015/08/the-man-who-hated-everything/

When Frankie’s in town