Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

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A couple years back a friend of mine gave me the deluxe banana album reissue with the stereo and mono mix. Last weekend I hooked up my hi-fi and decided to listen to it again. I've managed to misplace the mono disc and so put in the stereo version.

On Femme Fatale the Lou back-up vocals ("she's a femme fatale") are barely audible, it might as well not be there, and on Sunday Morning there's a guitar part that's missing (during the swirly instrumental break I swear there used to be a chugging "lead" or whatever you call it over top the backwards sounding bit). Anyway, the question is: Is this supposed to be like this or have I botched the hook up of my stereo and have only one channel playing through both speakers?

laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link

test your stereo with white light/white heat. If either the music or the story are missing from "The Gift" then your stereo is mono.

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link

argh, I don't have white light/white heat

laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Go out and buy white light/white heat. test your stereo with it. If either the music or the story are missing from "The Gift" then your stereo is mono.

Sonny, Ah!!1 (Sonny A.), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:34 (seventeen years ago) link

before quibbling about stereo/mono differences, you might want to check that one out.
it's good.

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:35 (seventeen years ago) link

You probably don't have "The Murder Mystery" either, but if you did, you could check whether you had different storylines coming out off either speaker.

Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Wait, you can use the first few seconds of "Sunday Morning" - the glockenspiel or what-have-you is on the right channel and then the bass comes in on the left.

Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Or just check the wiring...

W i l l (common_person), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

One of your speakers is out of phase i.e. you have the wires in the wrong way round.

MGrout, Monday, 28 February 2005 16:42 (seventeen years ago) link

could be! I just threw the wires back there without any regard at all.

laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:44 (seventeen years ago) link

are you sure you're a trainspotter?

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Behind my receiver is a dark and lonely place- I'll have to do this by candelight because I have no flashlight. All of you will be in my prayers!

laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 28 February 2005 16:53 (seventeen years ago) link

not even a spelunker!

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Monday, 28 February 2005 17:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Agunaunt, I am defined by what I am not. My secret is out!

laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 28 February 2005 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

arg!

laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Monday, 28 February 2005 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

REVIVE!

UPDATE: My speaker wire was connected to the right main and right remote outputs. I fixed the problem.

I'd like to thank everyone who was with me from the beginning, without your help this project may have never been completed. I'm confident that with the teamwork displayed in the last couple of days our dream of sending an ex-member of the Velvet Underground to the moon will soon become a reality.

golden ears kansas (lawrence kansas), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 14:07 (seventeen years ago) link

EVEREST IS OUR FOOT STOOL

The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 14:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought that was Everett?

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 15:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I go to school with J0hn C4le's daughter, 3d3n; she is kind've a twat.

Ian John50n (orion), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 15:29 (seventeen years ago) link

ian wins "post of the day" so far.

peter smith (plsmith), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost:
Who's the mom, B3+53y J0hn50n?

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 15:39 (seventeen years ago) link

No, some other silly tart, Rise?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 1 March 2005 15:40 (seventeen years ago) link

four years pass...

This seems as good a place as any to ask this question ... has anybody bought that new VU seven inch singles thing that Sundazed just put out? I don't really want to buy it, BUT: the mix of "I Heard Her Call My Name" is apparently vastly different. Would like to hear this ... mp3 anywhere?

tylerw, Saturday, 10 October 2009 00:16 (twelve years ago) link

haha I was wondering which thread to revive to discuss the "Nuns Are On The Seawall" blog...

i.e Velvets bootlegs S/D

the 'Ultimate Mono and Acetates Album' has some of those singles but not all. it does have the mono WL/WH which is really different at least on Lady Godiva's Operation, I guess I should listen to it. that may be the version of "Call My Name" you refer to.

also loving:

the Pre-VU Preview, all the demos of early 60's Reed/Cale pop music
Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland 68)
CDs from a certain minimalist composr who shall remain anonymous

sleeve, Saturday, 10 October 2009 00:24 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, I've got that Ultimate Mono Acetates thing -- from what I understand, this mix of "Heard" is unheard until now? Less of Lou's guitar, more of the band. Or something ... But anyway -- yeah! Pre-VU is crazy, really incredible. Drop in some references to methamphetamine and "Do The Ostrich" could be on White Light/White Heat, easy. Crazy that, according to the Unterberger VU Day By Day book, there's a solo version of "Heroin" recorded during the Pickwick era. Probably sounds similar to the versions on the 1st disc of "Peel Slowly" but I'd still love to hear it.

tylerw, Saturday, 10 October 2009 00:30 (twelve years ago) link

I've got it on order, will let you know...

Mark G, Saturday, 10 October 2009 13:23 (twelve years ago) link

Cool!
Someone over on the Velvet Forum sez: "the mix of I Heard Her Call My Name is insane. At first I thought that there was a mistake in the pressing as Lou's opening vocals ("here comes count down...' ) are way down in the mix and actually sound muffled. Then they pick up a little with 'Ever since...'. Sterling's guitar is up and so it Cale's bass. For the first 30 seconds or so it sounds like a kind of lo-fi garage sound and then later the sound gets bigger with more of the impact we know. But overall the balance is restored so that you can hear Sterling's lovely rhythm guitar work and Cale's bass, which is really great. Cale's bass sound is amazing on this mix and then also makes you realised how low the bass is in the mix on most of the White Light LP."

tylerw, Saturday, 10 October 2009 16:02 (twelve years ago) link

Hmm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0847833550/ref=pe_5050_13305760_snp_dp
$189
Little bit annoying that they're putting out all of this collector-bait stuff these days and not putting out unreleased stuff. Or barely any unreleased stuff.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:16 (twelve years ago) link

A while ago, I did my own mix of "Heard Her Call My Name" with less Lou and more of the band just for fun, anyone can do it

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:19 (twelve years ago) link

ysi?

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:20 (twelve years ago) link

From that Velvet Forum, here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

-The demo tape Cale took to England
-Summit High School tape
-Bizarre footage
-Delmonico´s tape
-Boston Tea Party footage(any news on this, by the way?)
-La Cave 68 tape
-Hippodrome 68 tape
-Nelson Video tape 70
-Rhode Island School of Design, Providence, Rhode Island
-May 11, 1965 Pickwick Studios, near Long Island City, New York
-Donald Jackson VU footage
-Danny Williams VU footage
-The Primitives tape
-Ronald Nameth Vu footage
-Matrix Tapes
-Seattle 69 tape

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:22 (twelve years ago) link

I don't know how to do that! (xp)

-The demo tape Cale took to England

I'd be surprised if this still existed! Very! The Matrix Tapes is what we want!!!!!

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:24 (twelve years ago) link

xpost

what the hell is that? a 304-page hardback book, yeah, but what about the single with it?

hate it when Amazon has no info about the product.

and hey that Seattle 69 show is on the Nuns Are On The Seawall blog, it's listed as Retinal Circus. first new show (to me) to surface since the Gymnasium.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:24 (twelve years ago) link

!!! Had no idea ... Thanks! Is it good?

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:27 (twelve years ago) link

more from that Velvet Forum:
-the full Gymnasium tape
-the cale/sterling/reed rehearsals from cale loft 1966
-uncut recent Factory 66 tape

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:30 (twelve years ago) link

here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

i'm still hoping that footage of them on Upbeat! shows up somewhere. Lots of clips from that show are in circulation, but considering they made a handful of appearances i'm surprised nothing's around. About one of the shows: "The Velvets performed live on the Upbeat TV show in June 1968 (not June 1967). Moreover, contrary to Sterling Morrison's recollection, they performed a blistering, buzzsaw version of Run Run Run. Their rendition of Run Run Run went beyond their alloted time: thus, Upbeat cut away to a commercial while the Velvets were engaged in feedback frenzy with Lou's back to the camera."

city worker, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:32 (twelve years ago) link

that would be awesome. There was some comment (I think from Moe Tucker) that she couldn't believe, with all the cameras the Warhol crew had going all the time, no one just filmed a straight ahead version of one of the EPI shows.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:37 (twelve years ago) link

Is it good?

here's wl/wh:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/8j4j7c

it's a soundboard!!! the only one I know of besides those Matrix tapes. as a result the vox are too loud and the guitars a bit subdued, but the overall recording is much clearer. I still think Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland Oct. 68) is my favorite live boot, love the guitar sound on that.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:47 (twelve years ago) link

that's a flac btw

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:48 (twelve years ago) link

Already downloading from The Nuns site ... So weird that this stuff just keeps showing up. One thing I'm super interested in (that hasn't seen the light of day afaik) is a studio version of "Beginning to See the Light" with Cale.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:50 (twelve years ago) link

WHAT????!??!

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:51 (twelve years ago) link

those Velvets Forum trainspotters mean business man.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:52 (twelve years ago) link

http://www.paulvates.com/images/gatwickshuttle.jpg

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:54 (twelve years ago) link

But yeah, the "Beginning" with Cale is mentioned in the Unterberger book - recorded at the "Mr. Rain" session apparently? With "fuzz bass"? There was talk of it appearing on a projected WL/WH "deluxe edition, I think. Which never came out obv.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:55 (twelve years ago) link

LOL, yeah, obv.

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 October 2009 16:01 (twelve years ago) link

But ... maybe now that this singles set has come out, there's a chance of more VU material coming out officially? I think I read that Lou wasn't into having any more live stuff come out.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 16:03 (twelve years ago) link

Hmmm, so I'm listening to this "Retinal Circus" VU show -- and I'm pretty sure some of these takes are the same as appear on Live 1969. Haven't a/b'd them or anything. It's an uncut tape of the show, though, which hasn't circulate as far as I know ... I think that those songs were thought to be from the Matrix, wonder what the deal is! MYSTERY. Sounds great, anyway.

tylerw, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:08 (twelve years ago) link

yeh, the wh/wh posted above is the same as the version on the live 69 album

zappi, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:21 (twelve years ago) link

er wl/wh

zappi, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:21 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, same w/ "heroin", "what goes on", "new age" so far. it's funny to hear these songs w/ audience applause -- on 1969 they cut off almost immediately, sort of giving the impression that the VU was playing to barely anyone. But here they've got a totally enthusiastic crowd. And why not, considering the godlike awesomeness of this "What Goes On."

tylerw, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:26 (twelve years ago) link

two months pass...

Just read this whole thread off the back of watching the doc - excellent use of a Sunday fyi. Now diving into all the live material which somehow I mostly haven't listened to.

VUare Bizarro World Beatles

Yes! Underrated/band-defining drummer; career trajectory converging to dashed-off stories about Sweet Loretta Jane, Lonesome Cowboy Bill, Rocky Raccoon, Sweet Jane, etc; person called John. Basically the same band.

Vangelis fleadh (seandalai), Sunday, 6 February 2022 22:42 (three months ago) link

Thought the doc did a great job of illustrating the context for the band: how these people found themselves in this place at this time, making this music. Less good at what happened once they were doing actual band stuff imo.

Vangelis fleadh (seandalai), Sunday, 6 February 2022 22:43 (three months ago) link

xp definitely give a listen to "Sweet Sister Ray", imo a key piece of history that remains unreleased:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFaOyQbDTKs

bad milk blood robot (sleeve), Sunday, 6 February 2022 22:48 (three months ago) link

I thought it was on the big White Light/ White Heat box set?

Johnny Mathis der Maler (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 7 February 2022 03:59 (three months ago) link

no, the La Cave version is the one people want

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/309-invisible-hits-the-velvet-undergrounds-elusive-sweet-sister-ray/

StanM, Monday, 7 February 2022 04:41 (three months ago) link

Thought the doc did a great job of illustrating the context for the band: how these people found themselves in this place at this time, making this music. Less good at what happened once they were doing actual band stuff imo.

it would have been 100% less-marketable as a band doc, but would have been cool if the movie had been all about the buildup to VU and ended with the release of the 1st album

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 7 February 2022 14:07 (three months ago) link

Yes indeed.

Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 February 2022 15:27 (three months ago) link

There are a few rock biographies like that. Re-make/Re-model: Becoming Roxy Music by Michael Bracewell has lots of information about the band members' artistic and cultural environments as young men (and about 5 pages on Bryan Ferry's hairdresser) but ends with the recording of the first album. In Joe Jackson's memoir, he gets to 1978 about 15 pages from the end of the book.

Halfway there but for you, Monday, 7 February 2022 15:27 (three months ago) link

Feel like there is a thing in any kind of biography of the Before and the After. The Before is the kind of interesting part of how the person forms their identity, the After is all the "And then I wrote" etc. Anthony Burgess was kind enough to split his autobiography into two volumes along that fault line.

Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 February 2022 15:38 (three months ago) link

not that you could have done a miniseries but the whole trajectory of the members lives is so fascinating for the superfan, so unlike Roxy or Joe Jackson settling into steady and comfortable careers; Lit PhDd, Wal-mart and Tea Party rally, methadone goth, midwifing "Hallelujah" to singing competitions, etc.

bendy, Monday, 7 February 2022 15:47 (three months ago) link

Heh

Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 February 2022 16:04 (three months ago) link

you forgot "tugboat captain"!

bad milk blood robot (sleeve), Monday, 7 February 2022 16:30 (three months ago) link

Ferryboat Sterl.

Bastards of Fish (Tom D.), Monday, 7 February 2022 16:42 (three months ago) link

And that’s the short and long of it

Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 February 2022 16:45 (three months ago) link

you forgot "tugboat captain"!

I thought the same thing, then figured the proof was left to the reader

Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 February 2022 16:45 (three months ago) link

"Sweet Sister Ray" is a groovy jam, but I guess I don't really don't hear the magick that others seem to hear in it...

False Pretenses Lad (morrisp), Tuesday, 8 February 2022 19:09 (three months ago) link

three weeks pass...

What’s the link? Is that the End of Cole Ave venue?

assert (matttkkkk), Sunday, 6 March 2022 20:07 (two months ago) link

No. Walter De Maria was the drummer for The Primitives.

Gary Gets His Tonsure Out (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 6 March 2022 20:10 (two months ago) link

The Velvet Ground

Josefa, Sunday, 6 March 2022 20:16 (two months ago) link

They're gonna tell you that everything is just dirt.

city worker, Sunday, 6 March 2022 20:20 (two months ago) link

Ha, exactly.

Gary Gets His Tonsure Out (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 6 March 2022 20:32 (two months ago) link

xxxp oh! I was looking for Maclise or Powers and concluded it must be the venue itself

assert (MatthewK), Sunday, 6 March 2022 20:38 (two months ago) link

"worth a million dollars" lol

Mark G, Monday, 7 March 2022 07:18 (two months ago) link

You're just dirt
You're just dirt
The only word for you is dirt
That's the only word that hurt, you're just dirt
That's all you're worth - cheap, cheap dirt
You know they call it cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, uptown dirt

Not so cheap, actually.

nickn, Monday, 7 March 2022 18:33 (two months ago) link

Ha, was thinking of that one too.

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:36 (two months ago) link

Gearhead tells all:
The Kent Copa that Sterling and Lou were playing was from the 1964–’66 range, since theirs had the more angular, rectangle-shaped pickups. These were low-output pickups with a strong DC resistance rating, but they were rather gnarly with a hint of overdrive, even at calm control settings. The real magic happens when the Copa is paired with a raunchy amp (à la the Danelectro-made Silvertone 1484) and a primitive fuzz like the early Vox Tone Bender.

Two other quirks to note: The bridge was a non-adjustable plastic job that did not help with intonation. So, if your guitar was off from day one, it would be off forever. Second, the tremolo on the Kent Copa is actually very good! The spring is recessed into the body and the darn unit just works amazingly and has a great feel.
https://www.premierguitar.com/pro-advice/wizard-of-odd/kent-copa-guitar

dow, Saturday, 12 March 2022 02:38 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

!!!! don't think this was posted before?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVxkWnwcFYw

thinkmanship (sleeve), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 22:16 (one month ago) link

News to me, thanks.

Eric B. Mash Up the Resident (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 22:23 (one month ago) link

wow!

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 22:25 (one month ago) link

I think it's in the documentary?

Was Hitler a Hobbit? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 22:26 (one month ago) link

Guess I must have been focusing on the wrong corner of the split screen.

Eric B. Mash Up the Resident (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 22:27 (one month ago) link

I don't know if it had audio though.

Was Hitler a Hobbit? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 22:28 (one month ago) link

I was about to say it sounds and looks like Moe wasn't there and that is indeed the case:

"Candy Says" live at the Paramount Theatre, Springfield MA, April 17, 1970

Video shot by Steve Nelson on monochrome soundless videotape. The audio was captured separately by unknown source

The Velvet's performed this night as a three piece (Lou, Sterling, and Doug) Moe had just gone on maternity leave

Was Hitler a Hobbit? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 22:30 (one month ago) link

Wow that looks like a transmission that slipped out of the ether

assert (matttkkkk), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 23:28 (one month ago) link

Right, exactly. It’s kind of a triptych version of a Warhol Screen Test.

Eric B. Mash Up the Resident (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 26 April 2022 23:45 (one month ago) link

She went on maternity leave but they still set her drums up? Or maybe they belonged to the opening or closing band?

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 27 April 2022 00:33 (one month ago) link

Most likely. The Tots or The Sundowners or whoever it was.

Eric B. Mash Up the Resident (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 27 April 2022 00:37 (one month ago) link

audio for the whole show is here: https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/615656049044848640/the-velvet-underground-paramount-theater

doug plays drums on a few tracks.

tylerw, Wednesday, 27 April 2022 02:15 (one month ago) link

I was six days old!

assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 27 April 2022 02:45 (one month ago) link

Yeah, I remember it from the documentary.

Mark G, Wednesday, 27 April 2022 08:49 (one month ago) link

One of those daft Facebook articles mentioned The Muppets doing the Velvet Underground on one of their "number" songs on Sesame Street or some such.

Did you remember this?

Mark G, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 14:59 (two weeks ago) link

"Shiny, shiny, shiny number seven ..."

nickn, Tuesday, 10 May 2022 19:23 (two weeks ago) link

Nope, not found it..

Mark G, Wednesday, 11 May 2022 10:00 (two weeks ago) link

I'd've thought it was a wind up somewhere along the way either something misunderstood by the writer or a joke on their part.
Would be very surprised to find they were overground enough to register in that way.

THough maybe it was a windup on the part of a hip production team. Some kind of irony in knowing the source vs the usage and thinkikng that the audience would never make the connection.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 11 May 2022 10:04 (two weeks ago) link

I'm assuming it would be a more recent episode, than back in 1968 or whenever...

Mark G, Thursday, 12 May 2022 20:53 (two weeks ago) link

.. obviously The Muppets weren't around in 1968, don't write in ..

Mark G, Thursday, 12 May 2022 20:53 (two weeks ago) link

They were around then, but were more into the Beatles...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4KUrntHu60

tbf "I'm Sticking With You" is perfect for the Muppets.

Doodles Diamond (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 May 2022 21:18 (two weeks ago) link


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