I Really Dislike Frank Sinatra: How alone am I?

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Well, my girlfriend does too, and at least one other friend of mine, but when I revealed my revulsion to them, each reacted with this "You too?" sigh of relief. This made me think there are more of us out there.

I especially hate the song New York, New York, not because it's overplayed, but because it's the embodiment of the idiotic attitude of slicksters who drive around in their BMW convertables listening to Sinatra and thinking they're "king of the hill, top of the heap." And as my girlfriend pointed out, why should we start spreading the news? Who cares if you're leaving? By extension, I hear this putzy attitude in a lot of Sinatra's music. Sure, he had a powerful, distinctive voice, and he knew how to deliver a song, but I can't stand listening to him. I'll take Bing Crosby, Louis Armstrong, Louis Prima, Dean Martin, or about anyone else over Frank.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:27 (fifteen years ago) link

I should add that it may have something to do with the fact that my best friend's tone-deaf dad, who used to drive us the twenty-minute ride to High School sometimes, would often put on his Sinatra tape and belt along.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:33 (fifteen years ago) link

judging sinatra on "ny, ny" is kinda like judging chuck berry on "my ding-a-ling"

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:36 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm not judging him on that, just using it as an example.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:39 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't like his voice. I don't like the way he delivers every line as though he's singing about himself.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:41 (fifteen years ago) link

you hate billie holiday too?

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:46 (fifteen years ago) link

No, I like Billie Holiday. It's just Sinatra that gets on my nerves.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:54 (fifteen years ago) link

Please, please listen to 'Goodbye' off of Only the Lonely.

I don't like the way he delivers every line as though he's singing about himself.

But that's such a big jazz singer thing. He didn't write any of those songs, so he had to own them by how he sang them.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:55 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, but I guess what I mean is that when he's singing a love song, I feel like it's more about him than a lover. I also feel like he's always doing his tough guy schtick, even when he's supposed to be vulnerable.

I've heard Only the Lonely before, but I don't particularly remember it, so I'll try to give it more consideration.

I do admit, his phrasing was spot on.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 04:58 (fifteen years ago) link

I love the arrangements on his records (Nelson Riddle, I guess?). I listen to him more for that than for anything else.

drfunk (DrFunktronic), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:11 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh, he's vastly overrated. I'll take Nancy any day. And Lee Hazlewood, for that matter.

Frank's a better actor than he is a singer.

Blightersrock (Da ve Segal), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:18 (fifteen years ago) link

My Sinatra cd has an apocalyptic final track. The end is ny, ny

Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:19 (fifteen years ago) link

I like Frank, especially the sad bastard period. I could go my whole life without hearing "New York New York" or "Love and Marriage" again, though.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:23 (fifteen years ago) link

It's all about "One For My Baby".

oh and side one of Sinatra and Company, the side w/Antonio Carlos Jobim.

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:26 (fifteen years ago) link

My grandmother hated Frank Sinatra because of his mafia ties.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:28 (fifteen years ago) link

Don't forget his mafia shirts and trousers.

Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:30 (fifteen years ago) link

nice.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:30 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't mind Frank really, he's done some great stuff. But he got cheesy towards the end, and the fawning bullshit I saw on every talkshow right after he died, stories you'd read from, I dunno, Chazz Palmenteri gushing about how he'd shared a martini with Frank once, ignoring the fact that he was apparently sort of a prick overall, etc. He always struck me as the epitome of style over substance, and he always seemed like the sort of guy who felt that women had their place, and it was a distant second.

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:35 (fifteen years ago) link

that said, great music up til the early '60s, and some decent stuff scattered thereafter.

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:35 (fifteen years ago) link

In the Wee Small Hours is enough for me.

Aaron A., Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:48 (fifteen years ago) link

The man does seem to have unquestionably been an asshole, but the music is what we're left with and I love it like yer sposeta.

I wouldn't give up my Miles Davis or Charles Mingus records either, and nobody ever accused those guys of being wonderful human beings.

A personal favorite album, and I can't say whether it would sway you or not, is the record he did with Antonio Carlos Jobim. The version of "I Concentrate on You" in particular doesn't sound anything like this:

Yeah, but I guess what I mean is that when he's singing a love song, I feel like it's more about him than a lover. I also feel like he's always doing his tough guy schtick, even when he's supposed to be vulnerable.

Austin (Austin), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 06:50 (fifteen years ago) link

I used to hate Frank Sinatra, but then I realized I just dislike a- his image b- Maxim reading tools who think he's so cool. It's kind of how I like the Smiths but can't stand Smiths fans.

Heidy- Ho, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 07:05 (fifteen years ago) link

I was indifferent to Frank Sinatra before we started listening to his 'Capitol Years' collection alongside Dean Martin's 'Capitol Years' collection at work, and I realized that Dino was so much better all around. More character, better songs, and a wider range of arangements.

derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 07:18 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah i cannot fucking stand him

bulbs (bulbs), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 08:50 (fifteen years ago) link

yipee! i'm not alone. FS couldn't sing! the songwriting is terrible too, though i'm not sure if that's his fault.

xenografia, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 09:20 (fifteen years ago) link

can't stand him. but "a very good year" is funny.

i do want to hear that late 60s thing he did that's supposed to be some bizarre attempt to be hip.

el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 10:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Dean > Frank

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 10:22 (fifteen years ago) link

Maxim reading tools who think he's so cool

absolutely. sinatra and his ilk ... it's become music for people who don't really like music, which is a terrible shame. the westlife and robbie covers are proof incarnate of this. "ooh, westlife are the new rat pack!" no they're not, they're a bunch of chancing fucks who haven't an original idea in their heads, and sinatra would have had them shot.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 11:41 (fifteen years ago) link

There was a swing-type band at a wedding reception I was at last summer, and the singer kept introducing songs with 'Here's another one made famous by Robbie Williams', before launching into 'Mack the Knife' ect.
I agree that this perceived 'classiness' is offputting.

bham, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 12:23 (fifteen years ago) link

Practically everything the man did on Capitol is gold.

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 12:56 (fifteen years ago) link

OTM. And some of the (early) Reprise stuff is silver.

lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 13:14 (fifteen years ago) link

Have you guys actually listened to Sinatra? The guy who said, "It's kind of how I like the Smiths but can't stand Smiths fans " got it right. Just about every album from "In the Wee Small Hours" to "Come Fly With Me" is a masterpiece; I vouch for "Songs for Swingin' Lovers (as sexy and confident as the Elvis Sun sessions) and "Only the Lonely."

"My Way" is a piece of crap (I prefer Sid Vicious' version), and most of what he recorded after 1960-1961 is rather uneven, until 1968, when his output becomes unbearable. THAT'S when the style overwhelms the substance.

The image has interfered with his art for too long. I thought you guys were smarter than this.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 14:03 (fifteen years ago) link

er, hang on. more than half the posters here - myself included - have expressed some admiration or love for his music. the image has become an enormous problem, though, and i can see how for some it would be insurmountable. hellfire, it almost is for me.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 14:15 (fifteen years ago) link

I've never been a fan of his.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:02 (fifteen years ago) link

...and if I never heard "New York, New York" again, that'd be just fine with me.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:02 (fifteen years ago) link

Can't abide "My Way," "New York," "Pretty Good Year." The out-and-out worst thing he ever perpetrated was "That's Life," which is a lame-ass Ray Charles imitation.

But consider the Rodgers & Hart material: "Little Girl Blue," "My Funny Valentine," and above all "Fly Me to the Moon." Classic, classic, classic.

And as for this--

I especially hate the song New York, New York, not because it's overplayed, but because it's the embodiment of the idiotic attitude of slicksters who drive around in their BMW convertables listening to Sinatra and thinking they're "king of the hill, top of the heap."

Doesn't this critique verge on being extramusical? Along the lines of "I can't stand [insert act here]--it's music for frat boys/people who wear ties and work in offices/people's dads/people's moms."

Ditto on the "he was an asshole" line of argument.

Yeah, but what about the music?

Dude was a great artist in his prime. But the memory of his bloated decline is what stays in people's heads.

The Mad Puffin, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:11 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't especially like him, and I find him unappealingly cold most of the time. Also, this is a case where I find an artist's image really difficult to separate from the recordings themselves. But I have to admit, having done the fox trot to some of his songs (with a dance instructor I had a crush on, and with a girlfriend), that some of these songs (and I mean his recordings of them) can be fun. Not really my type of thing, overall.

RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:18 (fifteen years ago) link

"i do want to hear that late 60s thing he did that's supposed to be some bizarre attempt to be hip."

Do you mean Watertown? It's a concept album/song cycle thingy, done in collaboration with someone from The Four Seasons (I think). It's bloddy great. For some reason it reminds me of Berlin by Lou Reed.

Adam Faithless (Adam Faithless), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:23 (fifteen years ago) link

I once dismissed Sinatra. Why? Just because of generational issues. Anything pre-rock, bleh.

But I got the message about ten years ago. His work up until about '67 is mostly great...the Capitol concept albums are all masterpieces. In fact, I used to yank the chain of this dude in Memphis who called Dylan "the Shakespeare of our generation" and all that shit--I'd say, "yeah, Sinatra was far better than Elvis." 'Cause really when you think about it they kinda did the same thing, at root--reviving old music, interpreting, doing the hits of the day, all that. I like Elvis fine but Sinatra was far and away the better singer. The dude would say, "but Elvis was doing something new, Sinatra was not." Howzzat? Elvis started out doing songs that had been done before, from Crudup and Bill Monroe and others, just like Sinatra was doing his Great American Songbook shit. I mean, Junior Parker and Crudup and Monroe, don't they belong in the Great American Songbook? It's just a matter of who's reviving whom, whether you were from Hoboken or Memphis.

Anyway, I don't have anything to say one way or another to those who don't like Sinatra--fine, there are plenty of lauded people about whom I'm indifferent for my own reasons (Neil Young, Van Morrison, the Ramones, Bowie, etc.). But to say Sinatra couldn't sing--I dunno. He certainly had the respect of everyone who worked with him, he had ears, he thought about what he was doing, he was a totally conscious artist.

Nick Tosches wrote a funny book about Dean Martin--many have said he played fast and loose with the facts. I think Dean was really what Frank wanted to be, an actual tough guy and all that. And Dean could sing, he was very good. But it's just Nick Tosches takin' the piss when he said that Dean was just as much an artist as Frank. Come on. Entertaining but just a product of Tosches's desire to be an iconoclast. Listen to Sinatra with Red Norvo, that live stuff, and tell me if he didn't deserve to be ranked with great jazz singers like Holiday and Armstrong.

es hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 2 February 2005 15:27 (fifteen years ago) link

I used to think I liked him a lot until I bought one of his CD's. I was really disappointed. I love "New York, New York". I used to go around singing it as a kid, and even sang it in an Asian karaoke bar out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere about 4 years ago!

Bimble... (Bimble...), Thursday, 3 February 2005 07:10 (fifteen years ago) link

rockist kinda nailed it for me there. as an "interpreter" its all about HIM. now this can work for me if i like the him/her involved. but he seems like a cold heartless bastard

bulbs (bulbs), Thursday, 3 February 2005 07:31 (fifteen years ago) link

es hurt, did Sinatra ever *reinvent* stuff like Elvis did, though? I mean, "Blue Moon Of Kentucky" in the Elvis version is almost a different song than the original, in mood and tempo, I can't really remember any Sinatra renditions that are like that.

As for Sinatra - it's all about "It Was A Very Good Year" for me, so sober and tragic and bittersweet; I like the way he talk-sings, so theatrical. I also associate the song with Leone's "Once Upon A Time In America" for some reason, all that nostalgia and regret and age. Bought "In The Wee Small Hours" last Summer, hoping for more stuff like that, but it kinda put me to sleep. Looking at the album cover seems much more rewarding than actually listening.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 3 February 2005 10:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Frank never did anything new? His phrasing was radical, revolutionary, he didn't just interpret he really personalized and inhabited the lyrics. You feel like he's singing about his life, not a sensation I ever get from Bing Crosby. Whether they know it or not, every rock & roll singer from Elvis on down was influenced by his style.
But I could never stand the sound of Frank until I moved to New York and heard him "in context," on Sid Marks' all-Sinatra radio show every saturday night. Plus those 50s and 60s concept albums really start to resonate once you hit middle age...

lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Thursday, 3 February 2005 11:14 (fifteen years ago) link

I am not too fond of Sinatra, for different reasons (most notably: he bores me to tears), but to say that the guy can't sing is just plain wrong. Also, to ask Sinatra to change arrangements on a particular song (much like Elvis contributed in doing) is plain silly because Sinatra was not a musician and never pretended to be. The guy is an interpret in the strictest sense of the word. It is like speculating on the influence Joe Cocker had in arranging that "With a Little Help from my friends" cover, when you had Jimmy Page around...

blawa (blawa), Thursday, 3 February 2005 13:58 (fifteen years ago) link

another vote for 'only the lonely'; gentleness, restraint, almost unbearably bleak evocations of loss and grief. i actually find it physically unsettling. franks voice runs through so many different and subtle gradations, shades of heartbreak. it's subtle at first, but once you fall into its world you're just awed by its power. singing near-existential torch songs: hardest game in the world innit?

all that swing shit is appaling though. bet jamie cullum's got his greedy little eye on an album of it too.

debden, Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:32 (fifteen years ago) link

i sometimes wonder how on earth sinatra could sing those songs so tenderly, with such a seeming understanding of longing and love, and yet be such a nasty arrogant little chauvinist?

debden, Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link

Speaking of, um, swing, I don't think anyone's mentioned the live stuff with the Count Basie band either. Shit's hot.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Sinatra was not a musician and never pretended to be

This is a ridiculous statement. Of course he was a musician, and a good one.

A few months ago I saw that one tv special where he does duets with Jobim and Ella Fitzgerald and then lets them do solo stuff, and it's so cool to see him sitting on the floor next to the stage just grinning and enjoying Ella's singing

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:43 (fifteen years ago) link

"i sometimes wonder how on earth sinatra could sing those songs so tenderly, with such a seeming understanding of longing and love, and yet be such a nasty arrogant little chauvinist?"

that's one of the mysteries of art. Lou Reed is supposedly a real twat, and yet that twat wrote "Candy Says" and "Stephanie Says." The twat was responsible for "Berlin" and "Mistrial."

As for Sinatra not contributing to arrangements - well, that's ridiculous and ignorant assertion, based on the assumption that because he didn't play an instrument he just walked into a studio and sang the hell out of something. Sinatra not only sat down with Nelson Riddle and his orchestra to work out the arrangements, he also CONDUCTED the orchestra on several albums, most notably on a Dean Martin album whose name escapes me.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 3 February 2005 16:54 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah i know what you mean about reed, also dylan, verlaine, lord even eric matthews. the list is endless

it's just that this seems to go some way further; it's like the most extreme case i've ever heard - how can he ache so much for something he considers fundamentally worthless? it's such a mystery.

yep he was often quite passionate about the arrangements

debden, Thursday, 3 February 2005 17:00 (fifteen years ago) link

Can’t speak to his unpleasant personal failings but, in addition to Miles Davis, I believe Lester Young also listened extensively to Sinatra, particularly ballads.

Another similarity between Frank and Elvis: have heard stories about both of them, at least during certain points in their career about both of them being very active in the studio in the arrangement/production of their records, despite being “only” vocalists.

Finally, since Dornröschen has outed themself as a celebrated jazz pianist, would love to know the roster of scat-tastic singers they have accompanied.

Don’t Slander Meme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 21 December 2019 13:16 (eleven months ago) link

Who knew Wynton Marsalis had so many ILM socks?

a very powerful woman in the dog world (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 21 December 2019 14:48 (eleven months ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/TX1u5zZ.jpg

calstars, Saturday, 21 December 2019 18:21 (eleven months ago) link

I think there is an edge of sarcasm in Frank's voice that always seems to crowd out any warmth. Check his duet with Bing "Well, did you evah..", ok, he's supposed to be drunk, but there's a mean edge in there. Contrast that with other swing singers like Dino and Bing. Someone mentioned Terry Callier upthread, well he has swing in his voice, but it's rich and warm.

Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, 22 December 2019 15:41 (eleven months ago) link

mean (I'd just call it edgy) often works w/ Cole Porter

Sinatra is usually warm in the ballads, at least in his prime

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 22 December 2019 15:55 (eleven months ago) link

I listened to ‘Only the Lonely’ on a whim (partly stirred by this thread) and found myself enjoying it. The late Romantic orchestral sheen à la Delius or even early Berg and Debussy got me, as well as the fact that Frank isn’t really ‘crooning’.

pomenitul, Sunday, 22 December 2019 16:42 (eleven months ago) link

late Sinatra (My Way etc) sounds grumpy af to my ears ... also the Live w Count Basie his crowd banter he sounds like he is moments away from telling audience to fuck off

but i agree w morbs, the meanness works w porter - cocky, even? - and his ballads have a lot of warmth

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 22 December 2019 16:50 (eleven months ago) link

also the Live w Count Basie his crowd banter he sounds like he is moments away from telling audience to fuck off

but i agree w morbs, the meanness works w porter - cocky, even? - and his ballads have a lot of warmth

― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, December 22, 2019 11:50 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, complaining about Sinatra sounding too cocky is like complaining about Moon playing too many fills.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, 23 December 2019 17:03 (eleven months ago) link

both are valid?

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 23 December 2019 17:11 (eleven months ago) link

Have a soft spot for Frank as he was a big influence on me when I was developing my singing style.

Loved his version of Webb's "Didn't We"

Bublé in the changer, I wish I was dead (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 December 2019 17:15 (eleven months ago) link

Yeah, complaining about Sinatra sounding too cocky is like complaining about Moon playing too many fills.

― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, December 23, 2019 12:03 PM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

both are valid?

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, December 23, 2019 12:11 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Both are inherent to their presentation and what made them great.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, 23 December 2019 17:35 (eleven months ago) link

Have a soft spot for Frank as he was a big influence on me when I was developing my singing style.


i’m now imagining your singing style as a sinatra croon delivered at a king diamond pitch and if i’m wrong please don’t correct me because i think it might be the sound i’ve been looking for my whole life

brought a kiss to the knife fight (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 December 2019 17:43 (eleven months ago) link

Q: I Really Dislike Frank Sinatra: How alone am I?

A: exactly this alone, as you deserve to be:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/No_One_Cares_%28Frank_Sinatra_album_-_cover_art%29.jpg/220px-No_One_Cares_%28Frank_Sinatra_album_-_cover_art%29.jpg

Baby yoda laid an egg (wins), Monday, 23 December 2019 17:48 (eleven months ago) link

well played

Οὖτις, Monday, 23 December 2019 17:50 (eleven months ago) link

Heh.

Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Monday, 23 December 2019 17:53 (eleven months ago) link

Both are inherent to their presentation and what made them great.

That doesn't invalidate the criticism

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 23 December 2019 18:06 (eleven months ago) link

i’m now imagining your singing style as a sinatra croon delivered at a king diamond pitch and if i’m wrong please don’t correct me because i think it might be the sound i’ve been looking for my whole life

― brought a kiss to the knife fight (bizarro gazzara), Monday, December 23, 2019 12:43 PM bookmarkflaglink

this heart of miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine
belongs to Amonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Bublé in the changer, I wish I was dead (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 December 2019 18:38 (eleven months ago) link

*tips fedora, throws up insouciant devil horns*

brought a kiss to the knife fight (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 December 2019 19:07 (eleven months ago) link

Both are inherent to their presentation and what made them great.
That doesn't invalidate the criticism

This Metallica is too metallic. This hamburger tastes like beef. This weed got me stoned. Frank Sinatra was too cocky/took my dame. You go to Sinatra when you want cocky brio.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, 23 December 2019 21:04 (eleven months ago) link

the ballad/"wrist-slitter" albums (as Frank called them) are 99% cocky brio-free tho, and also some of his best material.

Οὖτις, Monday, 23 December 2019 21:10 (eleven months ago) link

I would argue that the manic-depressive contrast between those two approaches ("No One Cares" vs. "Come Fly With Me" for ex) is one of the keys to his greatness.

Οὖτις, Monday, 23 December 2019 21:11 (eleven months ago) link

And Sinatra knew what he was doing, because he basically alternated releasing upbeat and downbeat albums for a number of years. If the new swingin' album wasn't your cup of tea you could just wait a few months for the next wrist-slitter to come out.

Josefa, Monday, 23 December 2019 22:14 (eleven months ago) link

This Metallica is too metallic. This hamburger tastes like beef. This weed got me stoned. Frank Sinatra was too cocky/took my dame. You go to Sinatra when you want cocky brio.

horrible analogies lol

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 23 December 2019 22:29 (eleven months ago) link

Just because some people (even MANY people!) like the very things one dislikes about something, doesn't invalidate their criticism. Hi, welcome to the world of subjectivity.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 23 December 2019 22:30 (eleven months ago) link

you could think that but you would be wrong

hi welcome to the world of ilx

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 01:15 (eleven months ago) link

Just because some people (even MANY people!) like the very things one dislikes about something, doesn't invalidate their criticism. Hi, welcome to the world of subjectivity.

So do you not like cocky music/vocalists at all? Cause if you don't, then my analogy is valid. If you do like cocky vocalists, let me know the vocalist you think is the optimal level of cocky. Thanks.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 01:47 (eleven months ago) link

you kinda have to be cocky to be a good vocalist. it's the only way to evaporate all of the tension that prevents you from being a good singer in the first place

looking for Mon in Alderaan places (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 01:47 (eleven months ago) link

Lol why does this hinge on what I personally like?

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 01:56 (eleven months ago) link

i don't personally give a shit, just hear for the martinis

looking for Mon in Alderaan places (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 02:00 (eleven months ago) link

sit next to me, find out

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 02:03 (eleven months ago) link

Granny, I love you but . . .

Just because some people (even MANY people!) like the very things one dislikes about something, doesn't invalidate their criticism. Hi, welcome to the world of subjectivity.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, December 23, 2019 5:30 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Lol why does this hinge on what I personally like?

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, December 23, 2019 8:56 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 02:27 (eleven months ago) link

still driving me insane to think about how many clearly rong posts have been made abt the legend frank sinatra

fwiw about 10 years ago i got super into 'songs for swingin' lovers' and its never let me down ... ace A++ album

ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 03:49 (eleven months ago) link

yup -- it was a domino tournament album for years in my crew, well into 2003.

I was feeling this one the other night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0wkmVBg_c

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 03:52 (eleven months ago) link

yes! love that album so much!

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 04:01 (eleven months ago) link

I was just about to link Angel Eyes... albeit this more fragile TV version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub8l94E9Q5A

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 04:17 (eleven months ago) link

I’m sure there must be some good takedowns of Frankie to be found in old newspapers with older critics going “this kid’s ok but he’s clearly no Caruso”.

Siegbran, Tuesday, 24 December 2019 09:58 (eleven months ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/x7zTWpT.jpg

brought a kiss to the knife fight (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 13:25 (eleven months ago) link

Brilliant

The World According To.... (Michael B), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 13:51 (eleven months ago) link

Never cared for him much, until I heard his "Send In The Clowns"... now boosted by the end credits of Joker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOUrnUktTjU

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 24 December 2019 14:26 (eleven months ago) link

It's an older meme, sir, but it checks out.

2xp

pomenitul, Tuesday, 24 December 2019 14:31 (eleven months ago) link

mike you gotta hear Only the Lonely

Simon H., Tuesday, 24 December 2019 14:33 (eleven months ago) link

Probably my favourite musical artist, certainly if you exclude jazz and classical and maybe even if you don't.

frankiemachine, Tuesday, 24 December 2019 17:36 (eleven months ago) link

I’m sure there must be some good takedowns of Frankie to be found in old newspapers with older critics going “this kid’s ok but he’s clearly no Caruso”.

I once a photo of Sinatra rehearsing in an old Life magazine (not sure of the date, but it was from when Sinatra first got big, so probably some time in the '40s) that's captioned with a comment about his "caterwauling that occasionally resembles a song".

a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 17:39 (eleven months ago) link

my grandparents both sang opera and thought Frank was trash

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 17:42 (eleven months ago) link

Ok boomer

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 24 December 2019 17:46 (eleven months ago) link

tbf, Frank's take on Aida didn't work, not least because he kept interjecting "Jack!" for emphasis after every third or fourth line.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 18:29 (eleven months ago) link

I have been convinced by the sterling work on this thread and have decided I was wrong about Frank Sinatra all along and won't be listening to him again.

Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 18:52 (eleven months ago) link

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Astaire%2C_Fred_-_Never_Get_Rich.jpg
Can’t sing. Can’t act. Balding. Can dance a little. Can’t scat. Not a jazz singer.

The Soundtrack of Burl Ives (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 27 December 2019 15:56 (ten months ago) link

Got volume 1 of the bio mentioned upthread out of the library. It’s great, albeit lurid in places.

Οὖτις, Friday, 27 December 2019 18:07 (ten months ago) link


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