Led Zeppelin: Classic Or Dud?

With Zeppelin, the sound is the thing. Tom, you should approach Zep's body of work the way you would Dr. Dre's 2001. Sure, Dre is not the greatest rapper, but he knows how to lay down rhymes that compliment his brilliant productions. I would argue that the same holds true for Page & Plant. The massive, bottom-heavy sound that Page captured with his studio work reaches perfection only with Plant's voice floating on top.

All the while feeling vaguely smug and intellectual because of the Crowley and Tolkien references. Bleargh.

Fred's not totally wrong though -- the Zep had their occaisional moment, but they're still overrated beyond belief. Early Black Sabbath could have them for breakfast!

But the best reason to hate Zeppelin, as Nicole pointed out, is that they were a band who sung about J.R.R. Tolkien. I fucking hate Tolkien. J.R.R. fucking Tolkien is not rock 'n roll.

I loathe 'ver Zep', their sweatiness, their ponderousness (is that a word?) and their pretension. I'm very used to listening to music for the noise. Led Zeppelin make a nasty noise.

I don't think I've ever heard a band rock harder than the Roots Radics circa '81, and they sounded *beautiful*.

Tim

With regards to the man's general worth, though, we must differ. ;-)

1) There is nothing even remotely intellectual about Zep or their fans; their music is populism at its finest.

2) Hard to imagine what could be more smug than picking on teenage kids in middle America.

3) Why listen to Zep when you can listen to Sabbath? JOHN BONHAM. Black Sabbath, while masters of the riff (and Reality), had an anemic rhythm section. How many hip-hop groups have sampled Bill Ward's drum parts?

Zep ARE pretty sweaty, though.

Fred's right when he says Robert Plant's voice sounds like an escape (specifically, from the stuffiness and politeness of Britain when Plant was growing up) but, you know, you could say the same thing about fucking Merseybeat, for fuck's sake. While at the time they were hailed as an astonishing sonic progression from *that* lot over six years, Zep remind me of what Tom and I once said about the Beatles' hangers-on; you can't deny that they sounded like an escape and a new dawn for certain people listening to them, but that doesn't alter the fact that the music is terrible.

Yeah, Tom's nailed them good and proper.

Why listen to Led Zep when you have Black Sabbath? Because only listening to one band is boring unless it's The Cure or Prince.

but seriously (ha ha ha)! tom is oblivious to many of the things that make zep great, unless he's fooled me all of this time and is really into virtuosity and locking rhythm sections. ;) mark, as you say the music isn't really made for or by intellectuals. the concept of "suspension of disbelief" comes to mind, checking your brain at the door, etc., and if you're not up for that then, let me say it again, maybe zep isn't the band for you.

and what's all this talk of sabbath? are the same people who are criticizing robert plant's voice listening to a band fronted by ozzy? certainly, sabbath has created some incredibly sludgy and heavy riffs (and are probably currently a bigger influence than zep) but, as mark says, the rhythm section is weak and, God, i just can't *stand* ozzy. more power to you if you can!

And Pitchfork can kiss my arse ;).

i write paragraphs about them because i force myself to think about them: normally, zep isn't one of those bands one rattles on about. if i were listening to the music and *thinking* it'd be a conscious effort.

and pitchfork is *still* the internet king of music reviews, if you ask me. maybe -- and this is only a *maybe* -- you'd be in their league if you wrote a review, oh, more than once a month (or when the latest merritt album comes out).

The ironic thing, I've just realised, is that my reaction to Led Zep *is* pretty much 'instinctual' - as I said to Fred in chat a few days ago, the difference is that I'm basically more of a punk than him. So I like Motorhead, he likes Zep, and both of us look around for rationalisations as to why the other one is less rockin'. Having grown up on the British music press and their horror of anything approaching prog or dinosaur rock, my gut instinct is to mistrust the virtuosity and bombast of the Zep: so my negative judgement is based on that 'unthinking' reaction.

Of course, I *could* think myself into liking some of their stuff, but as Fred says, that's hardly the point...

Busta Rhymes - 'This Means War' samples 'Iron Man'

Cypress Hill - 'I Ain't Goin' Out Like That' samples 'The Wizard'

And I'm sure that 'Behind the Wall of Sleep' has been used on a record too, Okay it's not quite 'When the Levee Breaks' but it's still got a fucking good, if loose, groove

Who has more original, harder, stranger, colder, more bombastic riffs than Zep?

That said: Stairway to Heaven may be Zep's pop masterpiece, but pop isn't what I want out of a hard band. I've seen them twice but after the first album, they could only play arrangements of their multitracked recordings. If Zeps extraordinary arrangements bear any responsibility for the over-produced so-called power ballads that came after, I curse them. Finally, Jimmy played the coldest blues based solos ever - his solos bother me every time I hear them but, maybe that's a good thing.

as for zeppelin, to paraphrase cole gagne on branca, it does not matter what anyone thinks about them any more than it matters what anyone thinks of the sun. they were my ecstasy and education from ages 10-14 or so. i can't stand them most of the time now, after punk happened long ago for me but there are always precious moments when i can listen and get into it again. the reasons for loving them and hating them are both equally obvious and *don't matter*. zeppelin simply are.

curiously neglected so far:

i) the obvious vulnerable and androgynous qualities of robert plant's voice and persona. *this* is one item that separates them from standard macho beer-drinking rock and makes them valuable to misfit teen boys (god knows none of the *jocks* were listening to them in my gr 8 class).

ii) the tolkien's not there to make the fans feel smug and intellectual. fuck, when do most people read tolkien? gr 6? gr 7? it's there because, along with the music, zeppelin really aimed to create a fantasy-world and to achieve an otherworldly experience. item number two.

listening to just the cure all the time though. gah.

The best Zep, though, were "Physical Graffiti" and "Presence." The first LP of the former is the best funk record ever recorded (better even that Parliament/Funkadelic). The second is just great.

Kris.

Fuck you all

Later bands would imitate the screamin and screaching guitars; however, the rythm sectio could not be duplicated. Furthermore, the sound of led zeppelin was a result of a combination of many influencs,including indian classical and celtic. Later bands' sound was a result of musical interests within the band that were limited in genre.

All of the musicians in the band are of the highest quality. JImmy Page ranks as one of the best guitarists ever, and the rythm section of John Paul Jones an John Bonham is unrivaled. The songwritig duo of Page and Plant was also one of the best ever.

Contrary to the beliefs of some people who have posted, Led zeppelin set records for sales of tickets and albums. Their live performances shattered tickt sales records, due to elongated versions of songs such as moby dick, which is also an example of Bonham's amazing talent. They are also right behind the beatles in total record sales. HOwever, the beatles had 21 albums, where zep only had 10.

Now could somebody clarify how zeppelin isn't good, because i just don't see it.

I like Plant's voice.

But the stuff I think I most enjoy from them are when they were just plain goofy and/or eccentric. I'm thinking "Boogie with Stu", "Hats Off (to Roy Harper)", "The Crunge", "Hot Dog", etc

Can't think of too many weak moments from Zep, actually...

I can understand those who don't like them becasue of the Prog/Dinosaur overtones, but simply noting that they were in that field would negate the accusations of them bieng anti-intellectual and lacking skill.

Sure, some of their songs are *fairly* simple, but on the whole, they almost always managed to do something unexpected or quirky within the context of Loud Blues.

They're one of the few Rawk bands I can stand, because there's always something ungraspable about how they came to what they ended up doing. To me, if you can figure out how a band got to their end product (and could replicate it yourself), why bother listening to it?

Zeppelin's music, if you listen to it, was exstremly inventive and layered. Led Zeppelins actually musical influence can actually be felt most from everyone from Prince to REM to Jane's Addiction to Smashing Pumpkins. Not lame hair metal, lol. On the other hand all Black Sabbath ever influenced was moronic crap like death metal, or black metal and a bunch of low IQed, beer swilling "metal heads" with a mentality to "break stuff" and worship the devil. Please.

Also the comments about Led Zeppelin not being intellectual are ignorant in my opinion. Is Mozart not intellectual? He certainly did not have many lyrics about war or polotics did he? What was intellectual about Zeppelin was there musical ability. The world was filled with tons of good and lame bands that where "politcally consious", i think they where and still are a breath of fresh air. I like some Punk rock, but if you are that non-ecclectic as to be turned off to great musicans because of some silly ideal or scene (like punk) then your a idiot.

So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden - a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never a single Sabbath tune.

So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden - a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never a single Sabbath tune.

Ron

So they influenced R. Kelly, too!

Anyband with Bonham at the back was on to a winner (unless it was Bonham's own band) and Page and Plant ain't so bad either. Actually, I recall Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull fame telling Melody Maker back in the day that with his lyrics and Zep's music they "could have made quite a good little rock and roll band." Ha ha ha ha ha.. sorry, I laugh my ass off everytime I hear that.

Gimme Physical Graffiti everytime. I think it's actually too good, if that's possible, which it isn't, but it feels like it is when I listen to that album. Does anyone else know what I (don't) mean?

it's crazy how little jimmy has done. one studio LP and one live LP with plant, coverdale/page, death wish II, outrider.

Two LPs with The Firm, the live double with the Black Crowes

Good for him It’s not like he’s going to write another middle section from in the light

Jimmy's ready for Spinal Tap here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3973tfsllqw

Shit I meat 1O years gone

Jimmy's ready for Spinal Tap here:

📹

I was gonna say, I think the years of drink and drugs took their toll.

idk i feel like percy's done pretty well? nothing earth-shattering, but nothing embarrassing. heard stories that he's a nice guy

He and Jones have come through it much better.

Page was pretty busy in the '80s...in addition to the aforementioned stuff, the was the Honeydrippers EP, not to mention this meeting of the minds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpL-eVpgJpY

Shoulda retired

Courtesy of Gioia's honorable mention EOY list, this is a pretty creditable cover:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNgQtP4zk5E

Fucking honeydrippers … who wants to listen to that shit

This song is the real coda to the Led Zeppelin project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD5HQexvCfs

Ugh no

I remember he had similar things to say about The Jam.

In the famous 1980 Melody Maker joint interview “The Punk and the Godfather,” Weller said he didn’t like the Who much, and Townshend said he didn’t like the Jam. Weller was (arguably) at the peak of his career, and Townshend was in the worst shape of his life, addicted to heroin, cocaine, and alcohol. So yeah, both of them revising their opinions 20 years later isn’t inexplicable.

The Rolling Stones hated LZ too iirc.

Weller was obviously lying.

it's crazy how little jimmy has done

Don't forget his guitar solo cameo on "Heaven Knows" and vox and guitar on this gem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka_ALgG9hqY

Or maybe I meant ... this gem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFFTllc7nJ8

Of course this doesn’t mean they loved each other’s work at the time, but really..

https://janettebeckman.com/uk-punk/weller-townshend/

I distinctly remember Townshend in RS saying that Weller had no sense of humor. Not really harsh criticism, just kind of bitchy.

Weller was obviously lying.

I should have clarified that Weller said he did not like the present-day (1980) Who.

Weller and everyone else.

Eminence Front is garbage

It's a put on

"Athena" is a banger. "You Better You Bet" is catchy as hell. But they would have done better to hang it up after Moon died . . . like Zeppelin pretty mch did after Bonham went.

moneymoneymoneymoneymoney

Page was pretty busy in the '80s...in addition to the aforementioned stuff, the was the Honeydrippers EP, not to mention this meeting of the minds...

📹

Plant always seems to be more with it and have bigger ears. He did that little Low tribute when Mimi Parker died, to name one recent example. Also always thought he was the one of the two that was into The Cure unless I missed something.

He worked with Port Thompson at the time.

*Porl

I couldn’t decide whether to type Pearl or Porl so I just said The Cure. Although if you search for it all the hits seem to be about touring with the entity known as Page and Plant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9WEqWc74QQ

Early facial hair period with jimmy in his little hat. Sounds like the same drum kit used on the first album

"Dazed and Confused," from the same festival:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yYJF0clN44

The sound on those Kino clips is amazing, the footage is so hit and miss. It feels like they're stretching out a meagre amount of footage to cover the soundtrack they have. An exciting thing might happen in the song, but all they have is five seconds of JPJ's fingers plucking at his bass strings, or ten seconds of RP's cowboy boots, and then they cut to anonumous hippies in the crown all looking dazed'n'confused, with occasional breakouts of freaky dancing, and often when they cut to RP singing his lips don't match the words being sung. It is endlessly fascinating, though, that other than occasional freaky ecstatic dancers, for the most part the audiences seem knackered or on some bad trip. The lion's share of punters hardly seem to be thrilling to the sounds.

Which often makes me wonder if the clips of the audience aren't equally as random. Maybe a band isn't even playing when the camera gazes on a field of hippies sat down, barely registering anything happening at all. Or maybe the drugs were just better then.

it’d be lucky if it’s even from the same day tbh

Per YT comments on the D&C clip the audio is from another 1970 date at the Royal Albert Hall.

Well, there you go.

It's an entertaining watch but the subterfuge and dishonesty fucks with me tbh.

"That's not even Jimmy Page's real hat!"

https://external-preview.redd.it/gAuavm7zyqFy3qOk-DEDud4FOqs7PQF367knhis4P-o.jpg?auto=webp&s=dfd731c5e0a37affce8b003df9c93b5d7f8205a5

Heh

well that's disappointing that it's different audio and video
still cool to see the visual footage of the band I guess

Good Times belongs to Jones - those lines behind “seventeen…” - and the drummer

I love the cutting little riff jimmy plays during the middle 8… and bozo is phenomenal of course

Pretty telling it that they put it first

I have a friend who is strangely resistant to LZ. I saw him make some snide remark online, along the lines of "well, maybe I'll give the first Zeppelin album another shot, but I don't like this band in blooze mode," and I was all, dude, first song, first side!!!!!!!

don’t forget the triplets on d&c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TORvjbwycA

Cover of tea for one, the drummer really has that JB snare tone