Neil Young and John Lydon.

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so i was listening to the PiL song 'the suit' and one of the lyrics is "sample and hold", the name of the n. young song from trans. and of course there's whole "johhny rotten" lyric in 'my my hey hey'. so what's the connection? is neil obsessed with johnny?
and here's an excerpt from an amusing interview with lydon i found when googling for this shit (young related stuff but also another aweful quote):

drDrew.com: What did you think when Neil Young released that song, "My My Hey Hey (Out of the Blue)," with the lyric, "The king is gone but he's not forgotten / This is the story of Johnny Rotten"?
JL: I was confused by it and I still am. I have no idea what on earth he meant. I tried to get him to come on "Rotten TV" and he said no. It's very curious that he would write a song about me but not want to talk to me. It was very nice to be told Neil Young will only talk to people he already knows. That should make for a very lonely existence for him.

drDrew.com: What are you listening to these days?
JL: Drum-and-bass, jungle, techno, the wonderful world of electronics. Dance stuff.

drDrew.com: What about hip-hop?
JL: No, it's way, way, way too typical. It's just sampling and more sampling and there's nothing new going on. Punk had a very do-it-yourself attitude. Hip-hop wants to wait for somebody else to do it so they can yap like a dog over the song. That's way too easy

(http://drdrew.com/DrewLive/article.asp?id=722)

(apologies is there's already a thread, the search page wasn't loading for me.)

La Monte (La Monte), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I remember that Rotten TV kerfuffle. Why on earth wouldn't Neil talk to Johnny? I think Neil's going soft in the head.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I have no idea what that song is on about either.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Regarding "My My Hey Hey (Out of the Blue)," I'd always assumed Neil just got Rotten & Vicious confused.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:34 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

But technically Johnny Rotten was gone, too (although not permanently given the ahem reunion tours.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Very curious.

Alex in CLEVE (lawrence kansas), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

maybe he was just pressed for rhymes.

the king is gone but he's not pernicious
the king is gone but he's not delicious
the king is gone but he's not doing the dishes
the king is gone but he's not FORGOTTEN

Al (sitcom), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I forget where i read it -- it may have been in their recent (well, a year ago) bio, but supposedly it was DEVO who came up with the phrase "Rust Never Sleeps". Neil took quite a liking to the new bands at the time (there's archival footage of Neil jamming with Devo in the otherwise entirely unwatchable "Human Highways").

Devo also claim that Richard Branson approached them about having Lydon take over as lead singer.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Every answer on this thread has been by an Al or Alex. Outstanding.


ALEX UBER ALLES

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:40 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

holy shit, I hadn't noticed that. fucking awesome, man. if any non-Alexes come in here we'll rush 'em.

Al (sitcom), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, the 'Shakey' book claims that Devo performed Hey Hey My My but wouldn't sing 'Johnny Rotton' (not fans?) so Mothersbaugh started making stuff up and sang 'Rust Never Sleeps' at one point. Which Neil liked.

(sorry)

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

i always assumed he was referring to john lydon killing johnny rotten and making a fresh stop. burning out and not fading away, as it were.

but as for making sense in general, n young's catalog is full of lyrics that don't. that's part of his charm.

AL checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

KEVIN YOU DICK!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

(joking)

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

INFIDEL!

Al (sitcom), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

(x-post, correcting myself)

um, fresh START.

fact checking al (fcc), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:44 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, the 'Shakey' book claims that Devo performed Hey Hey My My but wouldn't sing 'Johnny Rotton' (not fans?) so Mothersbaugh started making stuff up and sang 'Rust Never Sleeps' at one point. Which Neil liked.

I'm reasonably certain Devo were huge fans of the `Pistols (there's even shot of Mark wearing a Never Mind the Bollocks t-shirt on the inside of one of the live Ryko releases).

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:45 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

If it sheds any light on it, I think the lyric is "IS THIS the story of Johnny Rotten?" And I always thought that Neil was calling Punk (ie Johnny) the death of rock & roll icons (ie Elvis.)

And I don't think Sample & Hold has any connection beyond coincidence.

xxxxxxxpost

dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:46 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I typed it out, then the post pointing out the 'Al' pattern showed up when I tried to post. So I wasn't going to post. Then I thought, WTF, I'm not going to stop a post for this!

(x-post. Hmm. dunno why it was then)

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:46 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"Every answer on this thread has been by an Al or Alex. Outstanding."

hi dere

latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:47 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The sample & hold thing is not a connection though. They're both simply referencing the sample & hold function on a synthesizer.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:47 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Devo/Neil/Rust Never Sleeps

"n 1978 Neil Young hired them to play on the song “Out of the Blue” for his (unreleased) musical film project, Human Highway. During the recording, Mark Mothersbaugh and Jerry Casale spontaneously began repeating the words rust never sleeps — a slogan they'd devised for the antirust agent Rustoleum while employed by an Ohio ad agency."

dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:49 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The guy who came up with the 'rust' phrase is given a coauthorship on "My My". According to "Uncut" anyway.

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:49 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The Devo-meets-Branson story is hilarious, BTW.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/6139053.htm?1c

brianialex (briania), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:50 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Ah, here's a quote from Mark Mothersbaugh - "I didn't want to sing about Johnny Rotten, so I changed it to Johnny Spud. And I inserted a line - 'Rust never sleeps'."

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:52 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I had a high school friend whose brother was a huge fan of both Neil Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd, and he would enthusiastically point out what he took to be L.S.'s "tribute" to Neil in "Sweet Home Alabama."

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 22 November 2004 18:58 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Well, Ronnie Van Sandt (sp?) did take to wearing a Neil Young t-shirt (and wasn't he rumoured to have been buried in it?)

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

(x-post)
but it WAS a tribute. they wouldn't'a dissed him if they didn't love him.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The buried in a Neil YOung T-shirt is a myth, so I've heard .. but Neil was flattered when he heard his name the Skynyrd song. (And I thought I heard once that Captain Kennedy was written by Neil for Lynyrd skynyrd originally.)

dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:07 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Mark Mothersbaugh's Sex Pistols t-shirt is mentioned above, but am I not correct in thinking that Neil Young is wearing the "Never Mind The Bollocks" t-shirt during the scene in Human Highway where he is jamming with DEVO (doing Hey Hey My My)? It's ages since I saw it.

everything, Monday, 22 November 2004 19:08 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Hip-hop wants to wait for somebody else to do it so they can yap like a dog over the song

yeah cuz Steve Jones wasn't sampling "In The City" on "Holiday In The Sun" so John could yap like a dog over it.

miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:09 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Cameroncrowe quotes:

Neil Young gave a tape to Joel Bernstein to give to me which I gave to Ronnie, that had three songs on it - "Captain Kennedy," "Sedan Delivery," and "Powderfinger" - before they'd come out. And he wanted to give them to Lynyrd Skynyrd if they wanted to do one of his songs. They didn't fit on Street Survivors.

Neil loved that band and said they reminded him of the Buffalo Springfield and they made him yearn for the days of the Buffalo Springfield. He loved Lynyrd Skynyrd and he loved being mentioned in the song.

Being a huge Neil Young fan, I sort of appointed myself as cheerleader for that love affair to happen and blossom. I think it was happening - Ronnie was wearing that [Neil Young] shirt on the album cover and on the road. I was really happy to be able to play a part in getting some new Neil songs into Ronnie's hands. I don't remember what he had to say about it, but he was a huge Neil Young fan.

dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:16 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Wow, imagine if Ronnie had lived! They could have made beautiful music together. Maybe he would have been on Trans.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:17 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

So then Mark Mothersbaugh's music for Malcolm in The Middle is not secretly about Malcolm McLaren?

Hip-hop wants to wait ...
Am I the only who's tired of John Lydon's pronouncements, even when he pretends to resume the role of Johnny Rotten?

I Do like to listen to Steve Jones and his Jonesy's Jukebox on indie103, where he plays his favorite glam rock, reggae, and Shadows tracks, along with playing some new stuff and entertaining a galaxy of superstar guests.

Ken Al, District Attorney (Ken L), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

My guess is that the "king is dead" line probably emerged via free- associative word play. Young needed something to rhyme with "The king is dead but not forgotten" and presto: "Johnny Rotten", who happened to famously sing about something vaguely related (i.e.: "God save the queen"), pops out of the woodwork.

Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Am I the only who's tired of John Lydon's pronouncements, even when he pretends to resume the role of Johnny Rotten?

His pronouncements may be rife with contradiction and self-serving revisionism, but I still find them wildly entertaining, so long may he rant.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Maybe, ALex, but I still prefer Steve Jones who will be on at 3:00 PM Eastern Time here

Bow down to the Sire of Wiltshire!

Ken Al, District Attorney (Ken L), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Steve is a lot more of an affable, down-to-earth, humble, funny guy, yes.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:38 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

It's better to burn out than it is to rust, It's better to be Johnny Rotton and go down in flames, than it is to go on like Elvis. Like Alex SF said. I don't understand why Lydon, who pretty much orchestrated the end of the Sex Pistols, fails to see this. In fact, his band was basically based on the idea.

danh (danh), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Maybe he DOES see it and resents the fact that he still needs to be Johnny Rotten now and then to pay his bills.

Forgot to say: Collardio otm.

Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 22 November 2004 19:45 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

So then Mark Mothersbaugh's music for Malcolm in The Middle is not secretly about Malcolm McLaren?

the music for that show is by They Might Be Giants, though apparently Mothersbaugh wrote the music for a Malcolm ripoff show called Tucker.

&, Monday, 22 November 2004 21:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

miccio beat me to it wr2 mr. lydon's oddly rockist opinions about hip-hop. what w/ both crunk and grime, you'd think that he could find SOME entree into that music (given his stated liking of electronica).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 08:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

add in "fodderstompf" (which kinda sounds like proto-hiphop) and "world destruction" (an actual rap song), and his statement is even more puzzling.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 08:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I remember reading an interpretation that it was about rock criticism and how everyone just kinda moves on to The Next Big Thing and the idols burn out or fade away.

My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 08:16 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

But why does he say 'is this th story of THE johnny rotten'? Why use 'the'? That always bothered me.

Seuss, Tuesday, 23 November 2004 08:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

John Lydon was a Neil Young fan - especially "Zuma" - one of those embarrassing revelations that Malcolm McLaren was desperate to keep under wraps (along with Lydon's liking for Peter Hammill, Kevin Coyne, Beefheart, Can etc)

Den Dadaismus in seinem Lauf hält weder Ochs noch Esel auf... (Dada), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 11:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"Devo also claim that Richard Branson approached them about having Lydon take over as lead singer."

[tries to imagine result.... brain melts]

"The Devo-meets-Branson story is hilarious, BTW.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/6139053.htm?1c"

-- brianialex (lyriclas...)

Can someone please post the text of this without me having to sign up for membership of whatever it is? Thanks!

"John Lydon was a Neil Young fan - especially "Zuma" - one of those embarrassing revelations that Malcolm McLaren was desperate to keep under wraps (along with Lydon's liking for Peter Hammill, Kevin Coyne, Beefheart, Can etc)"

I've heard all of those before (you missed out Miles Davis / Bitches Brew btw!) except Neil Young / Zuma.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 12:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Another story is that Can wanted Lydon to become their lead singer - which sounds like utter bollocks to me. As Lydon himself put it, "Can? In 1978? Do me a favour!" or words to that effect.

Den Dadaismus in seinem Lauf hält weder Ochs noch Esel auf... (Dada), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 12:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Oh no!

My brain's going to spend the entire day recreating "Jocko Homo", "Mongoloid", "Come Back Jonee", "Sloppy", "Girl You Want" and "Whip It" with John Lydon on vocals now....

.... and I'm supposed to be going to see Tom Waits tonight too!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 12:09 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"As Lydon himself put it, "Can? In 1978? Do me a favour!" or words to that effect."

Absolutely. In 1978? Preposterous!

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf100/f149/f149830ux2w.jpg
(1979)

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 12:11 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I think he meant, why on earth would he want to join a bunch of German hasbeens pushing 40 and put out records like "Out of Reach"

Den Dadaismus in seinem Lauf hält weder Ochs noch Esel auf... (Dada), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 12:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Well, not if he had the opportunity to join a bunch of geeks wearing boiler suits and strage pyramid-shaped hats and put out records like "Total Devo" instead, anyway!

TS: Disco Dancer vs. Death Disco!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 14:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

But why does he say 'is this th story of THE johnny rotten'? Why use 'the'? That always bothered me.

In Out of the Blue, it's "This is the story of A Johnny Rotten"
In Into the Black, it's "Is this the story of Johnny Rotten?"

If that distinction is of any use...

dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 14:09 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Maybe it was just mutual appreciation . One of Lydon's selections for the Capital Radio show he presented during the Summer of 1977 was Revolution Blues from On the Beach.

wtin, Tuesday, 23 November 2004 14:17 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Ah! See, I was right!

Den Dadaismus in seinem Lauf hält weder Ochs noch Esel auf... (Dada), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 14:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Bloody thing's not inserting again!

ihttp://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/johnnyrotten_nme_2.htm

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I give up!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ihttp://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/pawnhearts/rotten_nme_2.jpg
Did i?

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

nope. Too big.

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

McLaren was really annoyed by that

Den Dadaismus in seinem Lauf hält weder Ochs noch Esel auf... (Dada), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:06 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ooh, that one did! So, have a nice piccy.
http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/pawnhearts/rotten_nme_1.jpg

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:08 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ooh, that one did! So, have a nice piccy. (xpost Trousers!)
ihttp://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/pawnhearts/rotten_nme_1.jpg

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:08 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Every answer on this thread has been by an Al or Alex. Outstanding.

Hey, my "actual" middle name is Allan!

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:10 (thirteen years ago) Permalink


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