RS Top 500

well i guess you've got to credit them for some kind of internal honesty there.

now can someone explain to me what exactly the rock n roll era was?

oh yeah, right, of course. "like a rolling stone" was real ... long.

I'd say it ended around the early 80's. At least to these voters.

(it's a list, yuck)
(it's RS, yuck)

...my real question is how exactly did "like a rolling stone" get to be the champion of all rock songs? i realize this is what all the classic texts say, and i realize this is what they teach in rock school, and i realize that it sure was revolutionary and earth-shaking and radical and maybe even anti-rockist to release a six-minute single. but what is so fucking great about that song? why that one and not "subterranean homesick blues"? why that one and not "i want to hold your hand"? why that one and not "sweet home alabama"? why that one and not "you shook me all night long"? why that one and not "superstition"?

this drives me up the wall in about 18 different ways

My guess is it's just the "go fuck yourself" attitude of the song. It was fairly radical at the time to have a song longer than three minutes be a chart-topper too.

Plain and simple, the song had attitude. And that attitude influenced a lot of music that came after it, directly or indirectly. I think LARS (wow, what a coincidence...) is a justified choice.

Again, at least they were upfront about the narrowmindedness of their criteria for this list; you have to respect that.

i don't mean this as a criticism of LARS or anyone who likes it -- it's a great fucking song -- but it's far from my favorite "rock" song, far from my favorite dylan song, and i've never quite understood how it came to assume its unquestioned place on top of the rock heap.

and i can't believe it's simply because it was over three minutes long (i mean, that's worth celebrating in a historical way, but if we're going to start measuring songs by their length, i'm gonna have to start complaining about the underrepresntation of yes, genesis and iron maiden on the RS list. and i really don't want to do that).

and maybe both versions of "blue thunder".

Ah, white people.

Because whenever they do these "Best songs of all time" lists, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is ALWAYS the highest-ranking '90s song. And then there aren't anymore 90s songs for at least ten or twenty spots.

I don't think it's so silly to say that the "rock-and-roll era" had start and end dates, even if the given ones are wrong. It's just like saying "the swing era" -- there are still swing bands even today but they don't have anywhere near the grip on the listening public they did in the 1920s and 30s. I don't think there was any value judgment intended in that.

"More than 200 of the tunes were penned in the swinging sixties, and 144 were written the following decade. The 1980s, known for glam rock and bad fashion, could offer just 55 songs. There were only three songs from the current decade. Eminem's Lose Yourself reached number 166, and the controversial rapper also came in at number 290 with Stan. OutKast's memorable hit from last year, Hey Ya, came in at number 180."

Also: "Spirit in the Sky" is some 100 spaces above "I Feel Love".

I promised myself I wouldn't flip out and get all rage-spaz on this board ever again about anything Rolling Stone ever did, but I guess now's as good a time as any to break that promise.

36. One, U2

162. Nothing Compares 2 U, Sinead O'Connor

169. Losing My Religion, R.E.M.

200. Loser, Beck

256. Paranoid Android, Radiohead

259. Hallelujah, Jeff Buckley

286. Summer Babe, Pavement

331. I Can't Make You Love Me, Bonnie Raitt

346. California Love, Tupac Shakur

353. Tears in Heaven, Eric Clapton

376. Fake Plastic Trees, Radiohead

382. Bitter Sweet Symphony, The Verve

399. Enter Sandman, Metallica

406. I Believe I Can Fly, R. Kelly

407. In Bloom, Nirvana

419. Nuthin' But a 'G' Thang, Dr. Dre

445. Come As You Are, Nirvana

455. All Apologies, Nirvana

475. Sabotage, Beastie Boys

497. Buddy Holly, Weezer

jesus -- how many fucking top XXX lists can these fuckfaces keep shitting out?

-- Mr. Snrub

Yeah Nirvana is honorary classic rock for sure. No song from the 80s in the Top 50. I believe the U2 and Nirvana songs are the only ones in Top 50 after '75.

Haha, wtf?

I mean I guess Clapton used to be an old blues guy and all, but "I Believe I Can Fly?" What a horrible token R. pick.

419 - Dr. Dre - "Nuthin' But A G Thang"
Dre's debut solo single sampled the bass line from Leon Haywood's '75 hit "I Want'a Do Something Freaky to You." Dre on his working methods: "I sit around by myself in the studio at home, push buttons and see what happens."

LOL, the last version of the list including "One More Time" as the DP song was one of the unequivocal arguments in that version's superiority.

refuse to believe that enough people voted for "royals" for it to rank that high, gotta be fudged

"So What" coming in at 492 is pretty funny.

― jmm, Wednesday, September 15, 2021 11:29 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

thought this was about the p!nk song, which would've been a better choice than royals

chris & i were arguing recently bc i was trying to explain in our micro-generational break how big a deal snoop dogg was to me

but its not about insisting that snoop dogg should be high on the list -- everyone sees criticism of the list as being essentially 'stan wars' which is not my point. its abt recognizing that snoop dogg is represenatative of a lineage and tradition that's marginalized by the historical state of the list, so as a writer i become intrigued by say slick rick since he influenced my favorite rapper and would like to see that aspect of the tradition of popular music represented, so slick rick being on the list (even tho I didnt personally experience it) becomes importan to me. and my perspective is of course not the only one, nor should it be (nb i did not contribute to this list this is rhetorical example); thus among many reasons why a diverse range of voices should be on the list, highlighting not just the underrated present but lost histories, lineages, the connections between past and future

now if you have people who came up on sarah machlachlan or nas or anita baker or throbbing gristle or lee scratch perry or whoever ... this entire lineage, tradition, way of talking is erased so that we can make sure ppl's personal stan favs from the last few years are on the list? a genuinely diverse voting bloc shouldn't just underline that kids today thought MIA and Azealia Banks were cool, it should underline and highlight whole traditions and communities that were devalued by the historic hegemony reproduced by lists like this

this is why the gasolina inclusion was a moment where i was like, hell yea, regardless of my personal feelings on the song it feels like a recognition of signficant cultural tradition that needs to be represented

otm, and uh, as one of the few Hispanic people on ILX, "Gasolina"'s inclusion is fucking great.

agreed about gasolina, stone cold classic.

i didn’t see if there was any other reggaeton on there, but would be cool if don omar’s bandoleros” made it

Speaking for myself and my ballot, I quite consciously chose 50 of my favorite songs that it would be cool for RS to endorse. I wish we'd been able to peek at each other's ballots because, I dunno, maybe seeing Noel or Sylvester or Anita Baker on each other's ballots might've inspired people to stan for the marginal shit of which individual tastes are made and is hell on lists like this which strive for being markers of a historical moment but end up looking like tombstones.

i probably wouldn't have minded "dancing on my own" if it had showed up at like, 200+ because it's a good song, established 10s critical favourite, etc., but it's just absurd at 30, no way is it the best or most important synth-pop/house-pop song of all time

It’s at *20

oh yeah it's "royals" that was at 30, pretty depressing if that's supposed to be the best big chart hit of the 2010s

I think we discussed this before elsewhere, but I really think that the best way to make a better list would be to split it into idk 10 specialized top 50 lists instead of a gral top 500. That way you can have say journalists and artists from a more specialized background - like, let’s say hip hop - vote on solely what they consider the greatest “50 hip hop songs all time”.

According to this list it’s

1. Public Enemy - fight the power
2. Missy Elliot - get yr freak on
3. Kanye West - Runaway

I’ll take a wild guess and say that if you ask hip hop artists or writers focused on hip hop for their top 50 hip hop songs of all time… these wouldn’t be at the top.

This ain’t the Complex era anymore where the strategy is to post a list every day

i have difficulty believing some of the songs on the list truly received any votes

I don’t mean to post a list a day. I still think of it as a huge, single “the greatest 500 songs of all time” list. It’s only divided into 10 or idk 5 huge lists with a more specialized voting panel that would give everyone a much more agreeable list… particularly when it comes to songs from genres outside of a rock scope. I know it’s Rolling Stone and you can’t really remove that rock scope, but why even pretend like it’s something more ambitious when most results outside of a rock angle are very disagreeable.

I mean… fucking “get lucky” being the only Daft Punk song in here makes me think that most people voting for it don’t really listen to Daft Punk… or house… or even any disco or funk… I think I prefer not having them represented at all and make space for idk “Le Freak” which didn’t make the cut.

The ’60s girl groups picks are generally the normie “songs everyone knows,” but guess that’s what you get with a list like this (not sure why they needed to mention that Cher sang backup in multiple blurbs, but ok).

Like let’s say you have 8 groups of people voting for specific genres and subgenres:

Top 100 classic rock / indie rock / alternative rock
Top 50 metal / punk
Top 50 hip hop/rap/reggaeton/trap
Top 50 soul / rnb / reggae / dub
Top 50 disco / funk
Top 50 folk / country / jazz / blues
Top 50 house / techno / electronica
Top 50 pop / indie pop / indietronica / edm

Then after you have those 8 lists you do a massive 500 list by score… if the highest voted song from the hip hop list has idk 80 points and that makes it overall the top 12 song then so be it.

Those are not the 8 categories I’d say should be the definite ones, of course they should be paired and arranged more carefully. It’s just a general idea.

That is, if they truly want a more concise list with a wider representation of genres and expertise behind it. I don’t think you get the full picture if you ask a white indie rocker from the 80’s what he thinks are the best hip hop songs of all time or a techno producer what he thinks are the best punk rock singles of all time. Those make for interesting individual lists but for a very unrepresentative global list.

Yeah but wouldn't theoretically a techno producer's ballot have a lot of techno on it, and a white indie '80s rocker's ballot have a lot of white indie '80s rock?

Hell you can even give 50% of the list a rock-adjacent restriction and the remaining 250 in whichever subsets of genres and subgenres you want and 100% guaranteed you end up with a more focused and agreeable general list.

can't believe Rolling Stone's 500 Best Songs of All Time list lacks statistical rigour

Yeah but wouldn't theoretically a techno producer's ballot have a lot of techno on it, and a white indie '80s rocker's ballot have a lot of white indie '80s rock?

― i carry the torch for disco inauthenticity (Eric H.)

In theory yes but the voting was not restricted in any way and if you look at some of the individual ballots upthread you’ll see that the assignment encourages voters to choose their favorite songs of all time rather than what they think should be the most representative ones in any given genre.

I think a little more focus would help. If you have someone voting for idk 4 hip hop songs, but struggles to think of his/hers/their list of 50 best hip hop songs of all time… is that the voice of someone who really loves hip hop and that should be voting for hip hop at all? Not pointing any fingers, maybe several voters are indeed heavy hip hop fans, just saying that having more focus on their core tastes or expertise would make a more interesting or agreeable list.

For me the electronica or electronic adjacent picks on the list are terrible and pretty much inexistent. Even “electronic” artists with a connection to rock that most RS readers would agree deserve a spot like say; Aphex Twin, Brian Eno, Chemical Brothers, Bjork, Massive Attack, Portishead, Tricky are completely missing.

Yeah you can’t please them all but… “get lucky”!? For real? That’s the one? Lol

Björk's got Buñuel syndrome. Too many masterpieces for consensus.

I’ ll take the worse song on Homogenic than whatever is being pushed as electronic pop in this list.

Moka, you … do… know the internet economy is based on clicks and social engagement, right

Like a big goofy list is going to get people talking/clicking more than some baroque labyrinth of genre exercises

Wait, sorry, I see you are petitioning for ONE list

I know I know… but I have a right to dream!

People will still click and discuss both the bad and good list decisions, though.

Yeah… sucks that english is not my first language since I tend to overexplain without making myself fully clear.

Let’s say you get a group of hip hop experts on board and they get to the 50 greatest hip hop songs of all time. Most of them end up voting for idk let’s say “fight the power”. And then most of the rock board decided that “like a rolling stone” is the most voted song. And then the soul/rnb experts went for “respect”… maybe you do end up with the same top 10 than what we got. Who knows?

Or maybe the rock experts can’t make up their mind and the top 20 is filled consensus metal and rap picks.

or maybe we'll die in a fire

Lol lots of what ifs. Anyhow, I’ll stop with that, it’s obviously not going to happen that way ever and it’s a good lost for what it is.

I always like looking at individual ballots in these big efforts. That’s where you find the real good stuff. Hope they included them somehow or made a separate article with them like (I think?) pitchfork does.

*good list for what it is

I look at some of the individual ballots above and they keep surprising me and feeling excited in an “oh yes! That’s a really cool pick for greatest song ever” in more ways than the top 500 does.

The top 500 does have several songs in there which are undeniable classics and some surprises. I particularly love that I’m starting to see finally a latin influence in there with Celia Cruz, Jorge Ben, Selena, Bad Bunny, Daddy Yankee… it’s small steps but they’re significant in my eyes… I very rarely see that representation, I’m used to only seeing idk Santana in rock dominant lists.

this is why the gasolina inclusion was a moment where i was like, hell yea, regardless of my personal feelings on the song it feels like a recognition of signficant cultural tradition that needs to be represented

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Friday, September 17, 2021 11:37 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Seriously, what's to celebrate in tokenism ? How does Gasolina represent a tradition if the people who voted for this list do not know the first thing about Latin music ? Who in reggaeton needs the acknowledgment or recognition of RS ? To pretend that this has value or meaning is so completely incomprehensible. This list is what it is: 60 years of ongoing biases that are only restated in thinly corrected forms.

"recognition of signficant cultural tradition that needs to be represented" --> Yeah right, real representativity here, you'd almost think the US is not insulated.

Moka is right, this list can only elicit an endless list of "why ?"

Björk's got Buñuel syndrome. Too many masterpieces for consensus.

If Bjork mixed good martinis too, she's godhead.

Sorry, wrong thread

Seriously, what's to celebrate in tokenism ? How does Gasolina represent a tradition if the people who voted for this list do not know the first thing about Latin music ? Who in reggaeton needs the acknowledgment or recognition of RS ? To pretend that this has value or meaning is so completely incomprehensible. This list is what it is: 60 years of ongoing biases that are only restated in thinly corrected forms.

― Nabozo

I agree. While it provides surprises having idk 1 reggaeton song, 1 cumbia song, 1 salsa song… at the same time being so eclectic doesn’t work. It doesn’t really provide a full picture and honestly nobody is expecting it. I’d much rather prefer more specialized lists. Because now you have to make space for idk an afropop song in the 400-500 and it’s going to be a very obvious choice. I’d rather have a rock song that rarely gets credit in the lower ranks than the token cumbia song everybody who cares knows already by heart.

Tokenism isn’t what I’m celebrating lol my point is the most of the inclusions on this list which I consider a failure make me cringe & that particular example is like the grain of what could be a more interesting list, the moment where you’re like oh this list *could* actually celebrate more of the breadth of music if they were trying.

I thought my whole point in drawing attention to snoop dogg > slick Rick tradition / continuum made it clear this had nothing to do w tokenism …? Gasolina is more than a “token” song anyway but that’s another conversation

Like I’m genuinely mystified how you could read the part directly before the mention of Gasolina as me advocating for tokenism lol

No worries, it was more a point of frustration I was trying to air than an attack against you or your post. As others have said, yourself now included, I just find the list very mediocre, so I took issue at trying to find an angle of analysis to grant it some kind of hidden significance.

i didn’t see if there was any other reggaeton on there, but would be cool if don omar’s bandoleros” made it

― grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Friday, September 17, 2021 6:06 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

‘danza kuduro’ imo

lists are funny

Aside from a small handful of choices like "Thank U Next" or maybe "Hotline Bling" or "Thinking About You," the token 2010s entries all feel grossly forced. Whereas more beloved tracks like "Work" or "We Found Love" or "Trap Queen" would probably not seem nearly as awkward. Even "Hard Times" or Charli XCX "Boys" are better choices than most of these. Or any song from Black Messiah.

Wtf are "Savage" or "I Like It" or "Redbone" doing here? Did "WAP" come in at #501?

Not sure if this is mentioned yet but noticing they made room for every prominent musician who died since 2020. Like "Radiation Vibe" is great but it's a very unexpected choice in context and gets me thinking maybe 10 people voted for 10 different Adam Schlesinger tracks and the editors made an executive decisions to combine those votes towards one song.

...which wasn't even entirely his.

10 specialized top 50 lists instead of a gral top 500

Yeah I really like this idea. Or a randomly organized list of 500 songs chosen only by superfans of the artists being polled. "500 Fan Favorites" or something.

Re: Prominent recently dead musicians, this actually worked in a good way for "The Humpty Dance" since it absolutely deserves to be here and sadly would probably not have been considered otherwise.