Creation Records

I think McGee said something like, "Just when you'd completely given up on them, suddenly they'd show up in the office with 'Higher Than the Sun.'"

that Screamadelica tour, changed my life and wrote about it somewhere on here...

How did I miss this documentary?

Thanks for posting this, it prompted me to watch it. Wasn't bad! Would have liked more on Loveless, the gestation of which I don't feel has ever been described in enough detail.

So they are putting out an early years box 1983-1985.

First two discs are basically a reissue of the first half of the Creation Soup series - ie. the first 23 singles but this time including Upside Down/Vegetable Man.

Third disc is "rarities". There's no logic behind the choices except 7 of the 14 tracks here are the McGee's own bands. A bit self-serving of McGee especially since some not released on Creation or don't fit the 83-85 era on the box (plus there are other Biff Bang Pow "rarities" included on other discs, jeez). Has two JAMC tracks that have been freely available since day one, most recently on the last reissue of Psychocandy. This disc also includes a reissue of Alive In The Living Room - no biggie since it's mostly a historical document that I think everyone interested will know is practically unlistenable.

Fourth disc is demos - barrel scrapings admittedly. Could be interesting but does anyone need this much X-Men in their lives?

Fifth disc is the best: radio sessions. Bodines, Meat Whiplash, The Loft etc well recorded in nice studios. I WANT THIS.

DISC 1: SINGLES

1. THE LEGEND! – ‘73 In’83
2. THE LEGEND! – You (Chunka Chunka) We’re Glamorous
3. THE LEGEND! – Melt The Guns
4. THE REVOLVING PAINT DREAM – Flowers In The Sky
5. THE REVOLVING PAINT DREAM – In The Afternoon
6. BIFF BANG POW! – Fifty Years Of Fun
7. BIFF BANG POW! – Then When I Scream
8. THE JASMINE MINKS – Think!
9. THE JASMINE MINKS – Work For Nothing
10. THE PASTELS – Something Going On
11. THE PASTELS – Stay With Me Till Morning
12. THE X-MEN – Do The Ghost
13. THE X-MEN – Talk
14. BIFF BANG POW! – There Must Be A Better Life
15. BIFF BANG POW! – The Chocolate Elephant Man
16. THE JASMINE MINKS – Where The Traffic Goes
17. THE JASMINE MINKS – Mr Magic
18. THE LOFT – Why Does The Rain
19. THE LOFT – Like 20. THE LOFT – Winter *
21. THE LEGEND! – The Legend! Destroys The Blues
22. THE LEGEND! – Arrogant Bastards
23. THE X-MEN – Bad Girl
24. THE PASTELS – Million Tears
25. THE PASTELS – Surprise Me
26.THE PASTELS – Baby Honey
* Bonus tracks

DISC 2: SINGLES

1. THE JESUS AND MARY CHAIN – Upside Down
2. THE JESUS AND MARY CHAIN – Vegetable Man
3. THE LOFT – Up The Hill And Down The Slope
4. THE LOFT – Your Door Shines Like Gold
5. THE LOFT – Lonely Street
6. THE LOFT – Time
7. THE BODINES – God Bless
8. THE BODINES – Paradise
9. PRIMAL SCREAM – All Fall Down
10. PRIMAL SCREAM – It Happens
11. THE JASMINE MINKS – What’s Happening
12. THE JASMINE MINKS – Black & Blue
13. MEAT WHIPLASH- Don’t Slip Up
14. MEAT WHIPLASH – Here It Comes
15. FIVE GO DOWN TO THE SEA? – Singing In Braille
16. FIVE GO DOWN TO THE SEA? – Aunt Nelly
17. FIVE GO DOWN TO THE SEA? – Silk Brain Worm Women
18. THE MOODISTS – Justice And Money Too
19. THE MOODISTS – You’ve Got Your Story
20. THE MOODISTS – Take Us All Home
21. THE PASTELS – I’m Alright With You
22. THE PASTELS – Couldn’t Care Less
23. THE PASTELS – What It’s Worth
24. BIFF BANG POW! – Love And Hate *
25. THE WEATHER PROPHETS – Worm In My Brain *
* Bonus tracks

DISC 3: RARITIES & ALBUM TRACKS

1. THE LAUGHING APPLE – Participate!
2. THE LAUGHING APPLE – Wouldn’t You?
3. THE REVOLVING PAINT DREAM – In The Afternoon (Early Vsn)
4. THE JASMINE MINKS – The Thirty Second Set Up
5. THE JASMINE MINKS – Somers Town
6. BIFF BANG POW! – Fifty Years Of Fun (Almost Live Version)
7. BIFF BANG POW! – Waterbomb!
8. J.C. BROUCHARD with BIFF BANG POW! – Someone Stole My Wheels
9. J.C. BROUCHARD with BIFF BANG POW! – Sunny Days
10. THE JESUS AND MARY CHAIN – Upside Down (Demo Version)
11. THE JESUS AND MARY CHAIN – Just Like Honey (Oct 84 Demo)
12. THE BODINES – God Bless (Alternative Version)
13. THE MEMBRANES – I Am Fish Eye
14. THE MEMBRANES – Gift Of Life
ALIVE IN THE LIVING ROOM:

15. THE JASMINE MINKS – Seven And Seven Is
16. THE JUNE BRIDES – I Fall
17. THE LEGEND! – Arrogant Bastards
18. THE THREE JOHNS – A.W.O.L.
19. THE LOFT – Your Door Shines Like Gold
20. THE MEKONS – Rock’n’Roll Shoes
21. THE LEGEND! & HIS SWINGING SOUL SISTERS – Sweet Soul Music
22. THE JASMINE MINKS – Green Fuz
23. ALTERNATIVE TV – Lonely Lenny
BONUS TRACKS

24. TELEVISION PERSONALITIES – A Picture Of Dorian Gray (live)
25. TELEVISION PERSONALITIES – The Dream Inspires (live) *
26. TELEVISION PERSONALITIES – Family Affair (live)
* * = previously unissued

DISC 4: DEMOS

1. THE JASMINE MINKS – All Fall Down *
2. THE JASMINE MINKS – Work *
3. THE JASMINE MINKS – Second Post *
4. THE LEGEND! – Boredom (Is) *
5. MEAT WHIPLASH – Losing Your Grip *
6. MEAT WHIPLASH – Always Sunday *
7. MEAT WHIPLASH – Walk Away *
8. THE LEGEND! – Victorian Values *
9. THE X-MEN – Home *
10. THE X-MEN – Planet Of The X *
11. THE MOODISTS – The Train From Kansas City *
12. THE MOODISTS – The Day They All Wake Up *
13. THE MOODISTS – I Guess I’m Dumb *
14. THE LEGEND! – Social Protest (By Numbers) *
15. THE JASMINE MINKS – Mr Magic *
16. THE JASMINE MINKS – Friends *
17. THE LEGEND! – Do You Remember *
18. BIFF BANG POW! – Lost Your Dreams (Demo)
19. BIFF BANG POW! – I’m Okay Me (Demo)
20. THE LEGEND! – Picture The Scene *
21. THE X-MEN – A Tryst For Liszt *
22. THE X-MEN – Stone Cold One Note Mind *
23. THE JASMINE MINKS – Choice *
24. THE JASMINE MINKS – Everybody’s Got To Grow Up Sometime *
* = previously unissued

DISC 5: BBC SESSIONS

1. THE X-MEN – The Witch (John Peel 13/9/1984)
2. THE X-MEN – Little Girl (John Peel 13/9/1984)
3. THE X-MEN – Xtramental (John Peel 13/9/1984)
4. THE LOFT – On A Tuesday (Janice Long 9/12/1984)
5. THE LOFT – Skeleton Staircase (Janice Long 9/12/1984)
6. THE LOFT – The Canal And The Big Red Town (Janice Long 9/12/1984)
7. THE LOFT – Lonely Street (Janice Long 9/12/1984)
8. THE MOODISTS – Other Man (John Peel 10/7/85)
9. THE MOODISTS – Bullet Train (John Peel 10/7/85)
10. THE MOODISTS – Take The Red Carpet Out Of Town (John Peel 10/7/85)
11. THE MOODISTS – Justice And Money Too (John Peel 10/7/85)
12. MEAT WHIPLASH – Loss (John Peel 28/10/1985)
13. MEAT WHIPLASH – Walk Away (John Peel 28/10/1985)
14. MEAT WHIPLASH – Eat Me To The Core (John Peel 28/10/1985)
15. MEAT WHIPLASH – She Comes Tomorrow (John Peel 28/10/1985)
16. THE BODINES – Scar Tissue (Janice Long 13/10/1985)
17.THE BODINES – Therese (Janice Long 13/10/1985)
18. THE BODINES – William Shatner (Janice Long 13/10/1985)
19. THE BODINES – The Back Door (Janice Long 13/10/1985)
BONUS TRACKS

20. THE LOFT – Beware (Live)
21. THE LOFT – Wide Open Arms (Live)
22. THE LOFT – Worm In My Brain (Live)
23. THE LOFT – Up The Hill And Down The Slope (Live)

Hmmm, I'll be interested in hearing old Jasmine Minks songs I don't know. My hopes were up that there might be one or two of the "Another Age" demos which I had once on a much loved much missed tape, guess that's a bit late.

Struck as ever thinking about this lot how good the good stuff was and how shitty the shit.

That is very true. And the good stuff has all been reissued so many times now...Like I say, only the radio sessions interest me at this point.

The more I read about this label, the more I'm convinced that it was Dick Green (rather than Alan McGee) who was responsible for a lot of the good stuff that happened on Creation.

I mean, if you wanna see what Creation would have put out if they hadn't folded, all you need to do is combine the Poptones catalogue (McGee's label) with Wichita Recordings (Dick Green's label) and the artists that were on Creation when it folded.

Yes, his track record after Creation was more solid and successful than McGee. Think the whole thing was very collaborative and McGee's importance massively overstated. Joe Foster...apart from being experienced with production, promotion and record labels he also produced most of the good early ones I think. And Ed Ball a bit later.

I think signing Oasis probably led to McGee's importance being overstated, he seemed to hate a lot of the stuff that a lot of people see as Creation's high points.

I mean, didn't McGee once say he would have dropped The Boo Radleys if it wasn't for Dick Green being massively keen on having them on the label?

He did.

A theory: he doesn't have a unique, curious or intuitive musical taste. His favourites are all refered to him by others: Foster, Ball, Bobby Gillespie, the guys from the TV Personalities, the Reid brothers etc. He's always remembering how one of those guys gave him a tape or something and told him it was good. The one exception that comes to mind is Oasis and in that case he was blown away by a version of I Am The Walrus for fuxake.

Of the early "good" ones, most were a friend's band, or a friend of a friend (all the Scottish ones basically) and so the quality control wasn't really there either - just luck.

With the Boo Radleys - I don't think he even knew whether it was good or bad. He thought it sounded noncommercial and was surprised when it hit.

So yeah -McGee was successful on the non-musical side of things. Attitude, scene building, making friends, dishing out drinks, talking to the media etc.

The Boo Radleys were a good deal, they had already recorded "Everything's alright forever" for Rough Trade, but when the label went bust they got custody of the rights (purchased or what, I don't know) and as a band were improving and on the up. So, it made business sense to sign them.

In Paolo Hewitt's Creation book, McGee has Giant Steps as one of his top 12 Creation Records. Maybe he was largely just thinking business-wise because almost all the rest were huge hits.

Interesting theory, Everything.

I was about to say "He signed The Montgolfier Brothers so can't be all bad" but then I have a vague feeling that I've read that this was on his wife's recommendation.

McGee probably included it because it got great reviews at the time, and didn't want to be seen as being the one who didn't like it.

Sounds like running Creation Records was a bit of a stressful time for Green, actually...

Q: It’s been quoted that you kept Creation going through the mid 90’s when Alan was ill, did you enjoy the challenge and do you think it sowed the seeds for you to set up Wichita?

A: I managed to pull a team together and keep it together but was in constant touch with Alan, and only really doing what i had been doing anyway, I dont think it sowed the seeds… nearly put me off for life more like…..

Q: Were you upset when Creation came to an end?

A: Nope

From this interview

So, the "Creaton" box set was mooted in 2002, and now it's here!

Also, funny they've dropped the A side (but not the B side) from the X-men's 2nd single, and dropped Les Zarjaz completely.

Slaughter Joe also missing, which is surprising.

Anyone familiar with Emily?

Thinking of tracking this down: http://www.creation-records.com/emily-release-a-retrospective-album/

Rumor has it Gruff Rhys of SFA fame drummed for them at one point. That's how I was turned on to them. Seems hard to find much information about the group. An old Stylus article made me laugh:

http://stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/shine-on-a-guided-tour-to-creation-records-first-50-singles.htm

[CRE050]
Emily – Irony EP

I’m not sure who Emily was or why they never made another record for Creation or even how many people were in the band or what—it might have only been one guy in fact. But I do know that this four tracker is great folky pop and I’d love to hear more. Layers and layers of earnest acoustic strums; thoughtful, forlorn lyrics; a slightly quirky male singing; and that intangible something that tells you that this could be exactly the sort of act you would like to follow for the next few years and eventually become one of your favorites. Alas, I have no idea where to find more material, if there even is any—certainly not on Creation. So help me out, Stylus readers—anyone know anything about Emily? Oh, the irony...

I never heard that ep, but for some reason a Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder song comes to mind..

Got a couple of their singles, saw them live one time and got a old fanzine or two with an interview or whatever. They are still revered in that particular corner of the internet that honours the flame of late-80s ethereal guitar pop. TBH I didn't really like them much at the time in comparison with eg. St Christopher who sounded similar. I don't recognise any songs on the retrospective since the songs from Irony aren't on it!. Also I'm sceptical of the Gruff Rhys connection though they are def Welsh. I just don't think the timings work out as Gruff would've been quite a few years younger. OG drummer was named Geoff.

I love Emily a great deal, think I voted for that EP in the recent Creation polls; saw them a couple of times back then (though not until after they had left Creation). Ollie was an absolutely amazing singer and songwriter.

There was a demo of dreamy acoustic folk-pop, bits of which came out on flexis as was often the way back then; some people in fanzine worlds were very excited about them. Those people were generally a bit disappointed with the "Irony" EP, which wasn't the big step forward we maybe expected, not necessarily improvements on the demo versions. I think we were unfair; it sounds really good to me now. I never heard about any Gruff Rhys connection but the drumming on the EP wasn't the very best. They drifted off Creation after that.

Next they turned up on Esurient, the brief but inspirational label run by Kevin Pearce (he's a fellow who's worth being aware of: it's his "Hungry Beat zine you see propped against the Vox amp on the front of "Pass The Paintbrush Honey", he wrote the mod bible "Something Beginning with O" which Heavenly put out, he's been writing brilliant stuff for decades now, partly under his "yr heart out" banner); a 3-track single, "Stumble" came out and they'd moved forward quite a lot, deeper, jazz-inflected, extraordinary drumming (courtesy of a fellow called Gian who I understand recently passed away, I'm sorry to say) and more complex songs. This is one of my favourite records ever. They recorded another single for Esurient, "Merry-Go-Round" but that never emerged, Esurient had run out of steam.

Then the pitched up on a label called Everlasting, in Cambridge with an LP called "Rub Al Khali", looks for all the world like some hippy private press album from an indeterminate point in the 70s or 80s. It was recorded in a barn and was looser and felt more provisional. I think about half of it is untouchably good, the other half I never quite got.

That was it, record-wise. I understand they reconvened from time to time but no more records came out (and no more shows happened to my knowledge) until that comp arrived a few months back with lots of unreleased stuff (I'm led to believe by people who know that they just kept recording for their own enjoyment); Ibought it straight off, though I have all the records and flexis and whatnot. I understand it's not to everybody's taste and for me they never quite hit the heights of "Stumble" (but barely anyone did).

Here's "Stumble", the photos on this youtube videos were taken by my old friend Dan at a show I was at, the show was genuinely amazing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS6Mu2p5hbM

(the other sides of this, "Rachel" and "Boxing Day Blues" are there on youtube also and well worth it).

"The Old Stone Bridge" from the demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA4rb9hQ5zw&nohtml5=False

The version of "Mad Dogs" from the Creation EP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45L84HogcKs&nohtml5=False

That's probably more information than you wanted, wasn't it? Oh well, you did ask.

xpost yeah, only "The Old Stone Bridge" from Irony is on the comp, and even that in the demo version above. For myself I'd take Emily over St Christopher every time, though I liked St Christopher well enough.

Good info :) They certainly sound better to my aged ears than to my teenage ones. The flexi you posted there of The Old Stone Bridge is the song I'm (and most people?) familiar with, even though compared to other bands in that flexidisc label/fanzine circuit they are way less frantic, punky and scrappy, which is what I was looking for at the time. Course it was all dimininshing returns - should've stuck with these guys.

It's driving my crazy that Oliver's voice is reminding me of someone else from the era and I can't place it! Any ideas?

Not sure, but then I've listened to them enough that he just sounds like himself to me.

Thanks. That is as great a post as I could've asked for.

Wikipedia and an EBay listing are my source for the Gruff connection.

xpost. Got it! I was thinking of Jim Irvin from Furniture, who kinda sound like what Emily might have sounded like with a decent studio and some money.

speaking of, Mark G you need to finish that creation poll.

> The Old Stone Bridge is the song I'm (and most people?) familiar with

Reflect On Rye was on Doing It For The Kids which I guess is most people's exposure to Emily

hi, yeah things have been very busy but I will get back on track next week probably.

Those 'Rub al Khali' tracks are something else. They really did a 180 degree turn, and I think I really like it. I found the Retrospective album last night and mostly enjoyed it. Some of the demos and acoustic songs are pretty rough, and the vocals + drumming don't always shine, but I think I agree with that 2005 Stylus blurb.

I just read that Stylus article and I think I disagree with approx. 80% of it (ie there are maybe 10 of the fifty where my estimation of the record matches his; a good number of those are the things we both dislike.

It's a decent enough attempt, despite his vagueness about a lot of it, but this was 11 years ago. Largely the stuff he praises is predictable - Upside Down, Pastels, Felt, Velocity Girl,etc - where the bands became better known and and the musical tropes are familiar from the 60s bands that influenced them and the subsequent scenes that developed around those bands and songs.

There's also a major "had to be there" factor with the more offbeat releases on Creation, where the reasons for their existence are more obscure from a distance of 3 decades. Just because it subjectively sounds like a bad song does not always mean it was a bad record at the time. There's a few of those here.

Haha I'm probably mostly just grumpy that he doesn't go into the kind of raptures I think the Jasmine Minks deserve! But it's not that he likes stuff that I don't, mostly, it's that what he describes hearing is at some variance to what I hear in a fair few cases PLUS he likes lots of things I don't.

Yeah he's lukewarm on the Jasmine Minks but lauds those Pastels singles which are actually quite lacklustre (Baby Honey notwithstanding). Jasmine Minks are the best of the early bands. But then they are practically the only Creation band from that era that was a proper band - ie. with a stable line-up that rehearsed, had a decent repetoire of songs and did gigs regularly.

Well, the X-Men

Them too. Both the Jasmine Minks and X-Men still doing the occasional gig.

Who's the lady wahoo-ing on "Foxy"? I'm not sure if she makes the track amazing or horrible. I'm still deciding.

According to the sleeve notes she's called Jo Roberts, and "she simply wandered into the studio one day, and the group invited her to add backing vocals." That's all I know.

I also note that (contrary to a previous post of mine up there) Gian played wind instruments and the second drummer was named Nick. I resign.

These first 50 Creation singles are bloody fascinating to me and please someone write a book about them, completely ignoring the later nonsense.

Many thanks for the Emily info. I'd been wondering about that band for years, owing to the likely unfounded, it turns out, Gruff Rhys chatter.

Here is the official line on Gruff:

Mark Williams
‏@MarkW06
@mjqmjqmjq cheers, gruff did play drums but not on any recorded stuff and only for a couple of gigs

Are you ready!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DM8mlZwVQAE13qQ.jpg:large

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“It’s a story of relentless ambition, mental torment, drugs, bankruptcy, unfathomable wealth, courting politicians and of how one written-off young Glaswegian upstart rose to irrevocably change the face of British culture,” according to the film’s production company...

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The burning question will be, who plays Rubber Jaw?

Awesome, can't wait. Creation & Mute mean far more to me than Factory ever did.

The production company can use that quote in the promotional material.