Pet Shop Boys

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What album would you suggest to someone who's only heard Opportunities and Paninaro? I really love these songs and want buy something by these guys.

Boxcar (Crapstone), Thursday, 11 November 2004 12:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

popart

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 12:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

You've heard two (comparatively) upbeat songs, so it probably makes sense to go with their most upbeat album, which is "Very". If not, then obviously popart is a great starting point.

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 11 November 2004 12:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

yep, "Very" or "Actually" would be a good point to begin...

HS

hector savage, Thursday, 11 November 2004 12:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Those two songs are both from the "Please" era. I'd rather say their two albums from the first half of the 90s remain their strongest work though.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 11 November 2004 12:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I'd say get all their early albums, up to maybe ten years ago. If that sounds too much, Pop Art is both great in itself and a decent guide to what stuff you like.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:16 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Echoing the PopArt recommendation. I'd almost say just get the DVD, it's around the same price and has all the songs plus the videos, though it doesn't include the singles specifically recorded for it, as well as the mix disc.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Just out of curiosity (as I've got both records):

Are people now offering Popart as a suggestion *instead* of the discography/singles collection? I've often wondered why they did so much overlap between the two - to me it would've made more sense to make a single-disc second volume of the discography/singles collection, as the first stands pretty mightily on its own.
(they put everything on from the first, save Was It Worth It)

it all just seems a bit unnecessary to me

rentboy (rentboy), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:26 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The first is definitely a treat and has the advantage (?) of chronological progression. In that respect, the DVD is useful, as it *does* have "Was It Worth It?"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Discography is a far superior collection. All PSB albums from 1986-93 plus the two-volume Alternative compilation of B-sides are likewise indispensable.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

All PSB albums from 1986-93 plus the two-volume Alternative compilation of B-sides are likewise indispensable.

Here's a TS for you -- buying them in that format vs. the double-disc reissues from Please to Very which include all the Alternative cuts.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

those double-diec reissues were one of the best purchases i ever made

i like how the first disc left the album intact and the second filled in with all kinds of neat mixes, demos and b-sides

so, naturally i'll say the double-disc versions

rentboy (rentboy), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Hmmm...I'm sentimentally attached to the original Alternative package, as it came out the same day as Goldie's Timeless and the cover designs/colour schemes of the two virtually matched. Also I like the idea of a bleak Bizarro-world Pet Shop Boys where things like "Your Funny Uncle" or "We All Feel Better In The Dark" were the hits. That Monday was also overcast and cloudy. I recall standing on Vauxhall Bridge that morning listening to "Do I Have To?" on my Discman and getting that Hart Crane moment.

But if you're on a budget then I guess just go for the double-disc reissues.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i love the b-side collections, but i wouldn't recommend it to someone who'd just heard those 2 trax!

both popart and discography are DEAD CHEAP, so there's little in it. pop art gives you a taste of the later stuff - which might be of use to someone who'd heard v little. i do prefer discography cos i'm not taken with the later stuff all that much :-(

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:45 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

the reissues have been great, with the bonus mixes etc. esp as i first bought them on cassette, so the "format upgrade" feels easier to justify to my wallet

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

PopArt does a better job of summarising their late albums than Discography does the earlies. Less filler on the early albums, which is why you really need everything up to "Very" ideally.

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 11 November 2004 13:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The double-disc versions. Not only for the remastered quality, but for the hefty booklets of anecdotal song origins. Their wit shines in those booklets. Plus as rentboy says, first disc keeps the album intact, which should placate the purist.

Chris Hill (Chris Hill), Thursday, 11 November 2004 14:26 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i'd get please and actually. and suburbia. wait is that last one an album? whats disco? is that a remixed version of suburbia? whatever, get the first two, then the one with th bluey green blurred cover

ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 11 November 2004 14:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

AMbrose is trying to say "Get _Please_, _Actually_, and _Disco_." I Agree with him but also suggest _Alternative_ because that's easily the best compilation of PSB material out that I've heard.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 14:52 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

PopArt > Discography, because you just cannot write off everything post-93, no way, no sir.

Specifically: Se A Vida E (pure concentrated joy in a can), A Red Letter Day (it GETS me, man), I Don't Know What You Want..., You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You're Drunk (dissing, punk, hee!), Home And Dry (makes me cry), I Get Along (it's about Blair-n-Mandy u kno).

And also because Discography's strictly chronological timeline gets a bit wearing; the "pop"/"art" split may border on the arbitrary at times, but the track sequencing is still intelligently done.

Most glaring omission from Alternative: the swing version of "Can You Forgive Her", re-recorded with a full swing band arrangement, and at least 98% as good as the original.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:05 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

marcello whats the hart crane moment?
i know what u mean and all but who/what the heck is hart crane?

(oh and check the INGA 1990 cover of DO I HAVE TO? if u haven't).

piscesboy, Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:05 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I really don't like "Can You Forgive Her?" It pales in comparison to "I Wouldn't Normally Do This Kind Of Thing", "Yesterday When I Was Mad", "One And One Make Five" and "Liberation (E Smoove mix)".

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:06 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

dan has surprised me.

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:10 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

He has sorta surprised me, but please keep in mind one of his few moments of mentalism in an otherwise sane existence is his bizarre insistence that Introspective has only one good song on it, "I'm Not Scared." (Which is very good indeed but IS NOT ALONE.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:12 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I don't like "Go West", either.

It's odd because I really adore most of their stuff (I loved _Release_, for example, and think "Home And Dry" is genius) but there are certain things that really, really aggravate me, like "Domino Dancing", "Always On My Mind", "Can You Forgive Her?", and "Go West", but those things are greatly overshadowed by the fact that most of their tracks are as great as "Se A Vida E (Deep Dish Mix)" or "The Boy Who Couldn't Keep His Clothes On" or every version of "I Want A Dog" that doesn't appear on _Introspective_.

(xpost RAISE YOUR STANDARDS, PSB FANS)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:15 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

You only don't like Domino Dancing because you're American!
(yes, I'm being flip)

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:17 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

DAN, IS YOUR BLOOD BOILING?!?!?!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:18 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I maintain that if "Don Juan" had been the single and "Domino Dancing" had been the b-side, I would have had a completely different reaction to _Introspective_ (besides "I'm Not Scared", most of the other tracks on it either aren't that bad or have versions elsewhere that I love but proximity to/association with "Domino Dancing" makes that entire package like Kryptonite to me).

(xpost HONOR THE FEY! Er.)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

whoa "Always On My Mind" is stunning, as is "Can You Forgive Her".

other favourites-
"Love Comes Quickly"
"So Hard"
"West End Girls" (obviously)
"Kings Cross"

I could go on, and on. best band ever.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

**I don't like "Go West", either.**

WHAAAATTT??? This is madness. Holy shit, that track is so utterly great.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:22 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

yes I have to agree.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

See, I agree with the last four songs you listed, Ronan! ESPECIALLY "Love Comes Quickly" and "King's Cross"! There are just certain PSB tracks that I can't get my head around.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

can you forgive her makes me want to punch things. that's a good thing.

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I think there's an invisible line in my head between "outrageously clever" and "pretentiously pandering" and the PSB songs I dislike go over that line in some vague, undefined way.

I also know that part of my issue with _Introspective_ is the super-heavy hand of Shep Pettibone.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:25 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

(an ILX poll of PSB songs is in the works, obv)

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:25 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

are they the stereotypical ILXors favourite band?

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:26 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Pretty damned close. That or the Junior Boys. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Anyway:

(xpost HONOR THE FEY! Er.)

I have to hurt you now.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

My work here is done!

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

...or the Dismemberment Plan, or Annie From Norway, or Lene Nystrom, or Luomo, or Saint Etienne, or Pulp, or Ricardo Villalobos, or...

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Annie, Villalobos and Luomo are not actually bands.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:35 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

But only five people on here like Lene, Marcello! (PSB and Pulp are my favourite 80s and 90s artists and I'm not even a typical ILMer)

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

but they're ALL WHITE!

i smell heavy handed ILX racism at work

rentboy (rentboy), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:38 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

(xpost about Lene)

Six if you count me. Play With Me is a superb metapop album.

Acid Alliteration, Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

...or Jay-Z, or Ludacris, or Teedee Moses, or Saul Williams, or Destiny's Child, or...

Marcello "Acid Alliteration" Carlin, Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

BACK TO PET SHOP BOYS

Is anyone else happy like I am that they've released the DVD of their Behaviour tour? Especially since I missed it. When they played LA. In 1991. When I was out of town that week. And couldn't catch them. WHEN THEY PLAYED WHAT WAS APPARENTLY ONE OF THEIR BEST SHOWS ON THE TOUR ACCORDING TO PET SHOP BOYS VERSUS AMERICA. But I digress.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

At some point, when I'm very very good and actually own a DVD player, I will purchase that.

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:42 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Behaviour tour - Wembley Arena - highlight of one's life

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Surely you don't find Go West to be 'pretentious pandering', Dan? It's absolutely *pure* in execution and delivery - and goes right to the heart of what maked the PSBs so great. It's just a huge gush of emotion.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

As opposed to the group Go West, who certainly could be categorised as "pretentious pandering."

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

"Out in the City/Hedonism" is a good PSB title.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 19:47 (one week ago) Permalink

that's why Alec Baldwin's Trump is such a dire mimicry xp

omar little, Tuesday, 5 February 2019 19:53 (one week ago) Permalink

"Why Don't We Live Together" is my favorite PSB song.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 20:18 (one week ago) Permalink

This song is ludicrously bad.

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 03:38 (one week ago) Permalink

Second track. Marginally better but still kind of a mess, imo. It's sounding a little better on a second listening, probably because I'm not paying attention to the lyrics as much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuNBJkLLnOs

I think this "satire" output is such a disaster in part because it's nothing new (both self-obsessed social-media culture and post-truth politics/Trumpism have already been scrutinized to death) and because it's so basic: no new insights, wit or anything meaningful to convey. And it's painful/embarrassing to witness an act so dear to my heart do such a poor job. That's a third problem, it's the PSB so expectations are higher than normal.

daavid, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 18:09 (one week ago) Permalink

Musically it's a lot better. The lyrics still seem kind of clunky though.

kitchen person, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 18:12 (one week ago) Permalink

What happened to the Neil Tennant that was great at writing lyrics?

PaulTMA, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 18:14 (one week ago) Permalink

"You're feeling 'hashtag blessed'" - an actual lyric from an actual Pet Shop Boys song

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 18:43 (one week ago) Permalink

This exists already, recorded in....1993

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG5oi1FGf_I

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 19:08 (one week ago) Permalink

The lyrics (to "On Social Media") are something Brad Paisley would write for an awards show appearance, and the music is completely bland. This is frankly depressing.

grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 19:11 (one week ago) Permalink

I never took you for a fan.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 19:12 (one week ago) Permalink

I stopped paying serious attention after Very but yeah, I was on board for a while.

grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 19:13 (one week ago) Permalink

30 seconds into the new one and these are definitely the two worst songs they have ever released

it's wild that someone who has always been so great at assessing and analysing his own work has a blind spot that lets him keep writing such thudding clunkers as these, I'm With Stupid and Winner

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:17 (one week ago) Permalink

well, they're old now.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:18 (one week ago) Permalink

An aging artist devolving into writing a bunch of blindingly obvious social critiques actually seems like a great subject for a Pet Shop Boys song

frogbs, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:21 (one week ago) Permalink

(though I heard half of the Maxi-Mix of IWS the other day and very nearly enjoyed the middle-eight's counterpoint against the main thrust of the song)

also Powell is not a great collaborator for them, I can't remember anything at all about Together. hopefully this EP is deliberately, like Elysium, clearing the pipes of tedious soggy chaff before an album of Stuart Price rave bangers

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:22 (one week ago) Permalink

An aging artist devolving into writing a bunch of blindingly obvious social critiques actually seems like a great subject for a Pet Shop Boys song

― frogbs, Wednesday, February 6, 2019 4:21 PM

ahem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLBN6CAs8oY

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:22 (one week ago) Permalink

well, they're old now.

yes, but they've written the likes of Vocal and Thursday and Love Is A Bourgeois Construct and The Former Enfant Terrible since then! and even, say, Pandemonium and The Pop Kids are diminished versions of things they used to write that take their aging into account.

xpost ha that too I guess, one listen to Elysium was enough

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:30 (one week ago) Permalink

I loved the last two records.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:34 (one week ago) Permalink

On a brighter note, I listened to Electric yesterday for the first time ever, and it includes a lengthy interview track discussing each song on the album, and it was sharp and entertaining.

... (Eazy), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:42 (one week ago) Permalink

^^ The interview is on Spotify

... (Eazy), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 21:43 (one week ago) Permalink

I like I’m With Stupid. The drums, man.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 22:45 (one week ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHMk9WdoFHg&

daavid, Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:32 (one week ago) Permalink

I don't know if I'm suffering from extremely lowered expectations now but I kind of like this one

Mind you, I'm still googling for a GIF of Neil and Chris jumping over a shark

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:49 (one week ago) Permalink

Whew -- this is easy. It's terrible too!

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:51 (one week ago) Permalink

It's better than the other two, though

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:52 (one week ago) Permalink

It's hard to forgive those hamhanded emphases and squeezing in of polysyllabic words.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:57 (one week ago) Permalink

They need to release a song called 'Jumping The Shark' about how they've jumped the shark.

just another country (snoball), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:58 (one week ago) Permalink

I mean W T F

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:58 (one week ago) Permalink

xp (waits for someone to post a link to a PSB song where they sing about doing just that)

just another country (snoball), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:58 (one week ago) Permalink

I'm fairly confident that they know they've released a bunch of leaden almost-word-salad tracks. This isn't like Muse's Olympics song (I think they were trying to be clever?) or Prince's Vikings track (who knows what The Purple One was thinking there). It's just that the Boys can be subtle and clever and these tracks are neither, even if they were made with the best intentions.

just another country (snoball), Thursday, 7 February 2019 22:03 (one week ago) Permalink

xxxp they jumped the shark with Bilingual 24 years ago. they've jumped back the other way occasionaly though.

Their one-off between-album cuts have always sucked; that olympics thing (Winner), Together for the Ultimate comp, and Was It Worth It for Discography.

piscesx, Thursday, 7 February 2019 22:29 (one week ago) Permalink

No fucking way. "Was It Worth It" is beautiful music as well as their first coming out song.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2019 22:30 (one week ago) Permalink

I think it's the Greek chorus bits; "WHAT?" "WHERE?" "HOW?!" etc that always put me off. I liked Chris's hat in the video.

piscesx, Thursday, 7 February 2019 22:57 (one week ago) Permalink

Yes, 'Was It Worth It' is excellent and, please, Bilingual is actually a very super release.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, 8 February 2019 07:48 (one week ago) Permalink

This one is the best by far, but that’s not saying much, unfortunately. It threatens to get good at the end but it’s still too word-salady. Why such a rush, Neil? At some point I started thinking about late period Elvis Costello which is *really* a worry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Two6mcJGYCM

I never liked Was it Worth it as a kid (which is a shame, because if I’d noticed the coming out theme, it would’ve been extremely useful). I love it now, though - a very similar vibe to Before, and for once Neil is just as hot as the models in the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px1sxZKiokc

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:08 (one week ago) Permalink

It also helps that I love this era of pop house

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 February 2019 12:15 (one week ago) Permalink

Yeah it’s their SAW-iest song by far (which is part of the appeal for me)

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:43 (one week ago) Permalink

Oh hey, this one isn't completely terrible

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Friday, 8 February 2019 15:21 (one week ago) Permalink

I remember thinking "Was it Worth It" was the worst PSB single up to the point it was released. But in hindsight (and especially given the shoddy quality of their latest output) it sounds a masterpiece now. Its only problem is that it doesn't have a great chorus. But the "I don't know why/I never thought I'd fall in love" bit at the end more than makes up for that.

daavid, Friday, 8 February 2019 17:41 (one week ago) Permalink

So, yeah, seconding Chuck_Tatum here

daavid, Friday, 8 February 2019 17:44 (one week ago) Permalink

According to Popjustice, the new EP contains 3 satirical songs and a sad one. That's the only one I'm looking forward to, TBH.

update on this though

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Friday, 8 February 2019 17:56 (one week ago) Permalink

Yeah, exactly what I expected. "The Forgotten Child" is by far the best of the bunch. Still, very subpar for the Boys.

daavid, Friday, 8 February 2019 18:01 (one week ago) Permalink

yeah, it would register as fine if the three others hadn't been so dire

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:13 (one week ago) Permalink

I remember thinking "Was it Worth It" was the worst PSB single up to the point it was released. But in hindsight (and especially given the shoddy quality of their latest output) it sounds a masterpiece now. Its only problem is that it doesn't have a great chorus. But the "I don't know why/I never thought I'd fall in love" bit at the end more than makes up for that.

― daavid, Friday, February 8, 2019

Mishearing a key lyric as "Then he smiled/and I was lost" helped too.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:10 (one week ago) Permalink

What's the best PSB *London song*?

It doesn't actually have to name London but has to feel London (which is probably most of them).

djh, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 20:02 (four days ago) Permalink

the Carter USM version of Rent that changes "off Broadway" to "Fulham Broadway," obv

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 20:07 (four days ago) Permalink

King's Cross?

DJI, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 20:38 (four days ago) Permalink

I'm wondering "Violence"?

djh, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 22:19 (four days ago) Permalink

"Two Divided by Zero"

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 22:27 (four days ago) Permalink


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