Pavement:Classic or Dud

I can sum up Pavement with a few words: run-on sentences, inside-jokes (which, unfortunately are never explained), sloppy jams hovering somewhere between self-mocking angst and slacker apathy culminating in complacency.

Something about them was unique at one time, but not terribly more unique than several other bands of the same era. And, is it just me, or does Steve have NO RANGE?!

That being said, I think Pavement are okay for summer music ("Summer babe"...) but Steve's starting to wear out his welcome in my eardrums.

I like the ballads, I think - "Here", "We Dance". Ask me in ten years.

I appreciate the Fall's virulence, to hark back to an obvious predecessor, to Pavement's mere quirkiness. Compared to the bile Mark E. can drop from his lips, the endlessly quoted putdowns from "Range Life" seem completely wimpy and pointless.

"Slanted.." is the only album that I play regularly, and I admit it's good, as is half of "Wowee Zowee". They CAN be almost great ("Summer Babe", "Here", "Father to a Sister of a Thought"), but seem content to pad out releases with half-arsed Pavement-by-numbers material. Or should that be Fall-by-numbers?

I lost interest by "Brighten the Corners" when it was clear that they could only do one thing, and we're probably going to do it for ever.

They make me bob my head and laugh and feel good - which is the whole of the point of Pavement (as far as I see it). And...job well-done.

'Crooked Rain, Crooken Rain' is simply brilliant in it's slackerisms. And is in my top 3 (maybe even THE) summer album list. Already have listened to it many times this very summer period and will surely listen to it many more times (as I have for past summers). It still hasn't lost it's charms on me (not come summer time, at least). Last summer, a younger cousin of mine got married. And...I played 'Crooked Rain' loud as I drove there and back as the perfect soundtrack to all that has been slacked in my young, but getting old, life. Worked perfectly for that "I'm 30. What do I have to show for it?" mood when you just want to say "Fuck it all. I'm going driving in search of some far off land of fairies and hot cocoa." (fine, maybe that's just me, but)

'Woowee Zowee' is good in many spots (nix the forced "punk" tracks). And Malkmus solo album is a solid summer album (for the most part). The rest...I don't care too much for, but. 'Crooked Rain' makes up for the rest alone.

It being Preston, Lancashire would have fitted Pavement's rather tiresome Anglophile image, I suppose.

well because your vitriol for the indie bands you don't like is so potent! but what people don't realize is that this is only because a True Indie Rock Player cannot tolerate impure visions, hangers-on, fake players in tha tr00 game! Why ride the Night Train to Butterglory when you can have the '97 California Cabernet of Trigger Cut! latecomers get a late pass, we been up in this game since the jump!

best song off S&E sounds least like the rest; i'd like them if all their songs sounded like that one.

With each Pavement album, there's like six good-to-great songs, and the rest is just absolute self-indulgent wankery garbage. It's shocking that their first couple records have achieved the status of Perfect Canonical Rock Classics That Everyone Should Buy. TRUST ME - THEY'RE NOT!

I completely agree with that, at least for S&E. I couldn't even listen to CRCR-- particularly that godawful single "Cut Your Hair"; Wowee Zowee and Brighten the Corners failed to make any impression on me whatsoever-- well, except that they seemed exceedingly mediocre. S&E has a few good songs, but "Here" is the standout tune, and it doesn't sound like the rest. I never feel inclined to listen to anything else by Pavement besides that song.

here?

also, classic!

xpost

the last song sounds a lot like "here." i'm blanking on the name. "i've been waiting. anticipating."

pavement are my favorite band ever. it makes me a little sad to know that some people don't like them; there's certainly some aspect of their music that everyone can love. a lot of people complain about malkmus' voice (especially early), but i think that he does some fantastic things with his voice that don't really fall under the "technical" category.
i've never really heard anyone say that the guy can't write a tune, mostly because that would be absurd to say. i can see why some people would be a bit put off by his (to them) excessive ennui and laid-back style, but for me that just enhanced what i loved about him. also, the more time you spend with the records, the more you can appreciate the songs which aren't as obvious at first. i know he first time i listened to S+E, i didnt really 'get' it besides "here", which i probably put on repeat for 5 hours straight. once you get adjusted to that particular style, the other stuff starts to make sense. what might ostensibly be "self-indulgent" are to me fruitful exercises in his singular, genius style. to each his own, though.

mr snrub, that's "our singer", S+E's closer

http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/nashvillecream/2009/02/the_spin_pavement_reunion_at_t.php

four-fifths of Pavement reunites (not really) for Bob N.'s wedding

was spiral stairs not invited? harsh.
i certainly wouldn't mind seeing Pavement play live again, but all of the hubbub and hype that would accompany a potential reunion would be dreadful, I'm sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drlJ6WxtqWA

Great performance.
I know how great a guitarist Malkmus is, but I am always shocked by this fact again everytime I watch a live video. So effortless, pure talent

I knew that show had been videotaped, but I had no idea there were TWO cameras rolling. Here's the other angle that I had known before, with some great shots of Gary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gheTBEWJso

Crazy.

(FWIW, my link is missing the beginning of the set, when Gary still had a shirt on, but H.P.'s link has it.)

RIP Gary. Every time I listen to early Pavement I’m blown away by his drumming. Always rock-solid and ready to drop an intricate octopus-armed drum fill at any moment.

just the absolute best one of a kind

Louder Than You Think, the documentary about him, is really powerful and in many ways unexpected; I paid to stream this, something I rarely do, and it was well worth it

Such an inventive drummer. Maybe my favorite part of Pavement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkKBmPh3QqI

I love the energy his drumming gave the early stuff, and Debris Slide is as good an example as any (my personal fave is always Lions). His fills have this teetering on a cliff's edge quality that really make the songs *exciting* in ways indie rock songs often aren't.

rip gary. my fav performance of his: the "conduit for sale" from the brixton academy 1992, what a powerhouse

I think a part of his appeal is that he comes up with patterns and fills that “pro” drummers wouldn’t, or if they did, wouldn’t keep them when it comes to recording.

That style doesn’t fit the mould of what a drummer would be expected to do - even in a indie band - yet those idiosyncrasies managed to fit Pavement like a glove.

yeah that whole brixton 92 show is a real showcase for gary — dude is just unstoppable. even something like "box elder" sounds huge there.

It’s a little like when you are playing at band practice or playing along to a song you’ve heard for the first time and you instinctively play what comes to mind without worrying about it being “appropriate” or “right”.

You play it back and - far from being inappropriate - it’s cooler than the more ‘measured’ or ‘professional’ take, because there’s a vibe to it that wouldn’t have been there had you thought more about it

this is the business right here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nLs9Mn6kgE

I was at the brixton 92 show, assuming this is the one opening for Sonic Youth. I remember Gary walking through the audience before they played, writing in marker on peoples hands and foreheads.

Wow that's awesome you were there

yah it's when they opened for SY, the link is from Eindhoven

RIP Gary Young. So happy to have seen Pavement with Young on their first tour. Two nights of completely shambolic beauty. Hail!

I remember him greeting every one at the door at the DC Pavement show I saw

gary young was a specific kind of guy that i'm not sure really exists anymore: the weird but not creepy slightly older dude/local scene lifer with equipment/practice space who eventually winds up playing with younger dudes bc his own peer group moved onhttps://t.co/YiQdAOWwZO

— Jess Harvell (@cheaptrickrules) August 18, 2023

that kind of guy definitely still exists

i always forgot how much older he was than the rest of the guys, for some reason i had thought it was only 7 or 8 years (which seemed much more significant when i was in college and first got into Pavement!)

Not Gary related, but I landed on a 1994 Athens show on YT last night... and goddamn, it's an incredible show.

that kind of guy definitely still exists

― tylerw, Friday, August 18, 2023 4:27 PM (forty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I like to fantasize that if my friends and I had had a that kind of guy when we were in our twenties we would have actually been in a good band with him instead of dicking around writing songs but not knowing how to bring them to life let alone make them into records

that kind of guy definitely still exists

― tylerw, Friday, August 18, 2023 4:27 PM (fifty-four minutes ago)

he may not be or look like who you think though. i think i am this guy?

i was really inspired by gary's wild playing -- i didn't know it for a long time but when i realized what i liked about early pavement, it was him.

RIP dude

RIP, I was wondering why this thread was active today. Saw Pavement live in the 90s but was well psst the first album.

Lovely tribute

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwEduEmLA-W/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

that kind of guy definitely still exists

― tylerw, Friday, August 18, 2023 5:27 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

otm

that kind of guy definitely still exists

― tylerw, Friday, August 18, 2023 5:27 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

otm

― flopson, Saturday, August 19, 2023 2:32 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah I’d say if anything in 2023 the only reason that person might not exist is because people no longer create age boundaries in underground music. In 1992 it was “whoa that guy is old!” Then at some point it became “I have immense respect for all lifers”. Then it became “why wouldn’t you continue to make music if you enjoy doing it?”

Idk. There’s still plenty of ageism in music, everywhere. It’s alive & well :(

It’s all over ILM for a start

sterlewine (which is always phrased in my head like 'spill the wine' by war) on gary: https://sterlewine.substack.com/p/the-return-of-the-turnpike-troubadours

JUst found this was up on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctNH51SmyoU

I saw them at Brooklyn Steel last night. They had me when they opened with Elevate Me Later, possibly my favorite Pavement song. We also got a bunch of WZ favs (Black Out, Father to a Sister, Half a Canyon, Fight this Generation). A beautiful Here closed the first set.

I think what we're seeing with this one, too, is kinda like a high school reunion ... at 10 years, you're happy to see people but really not far enough away from graduation to think of it as a big, special deal and you've not aged enough to really have the perspective that life doesn't last forever, it's the people and relationships that matter, etc. Then at 20 years, you're starting to understand that more and so you start to appreciate seeing old friends, recounting the memories, etc.

i think this is well said ...

And hey, they sounded great, seemed to be having fun at the show I saw. Very good vibes.

― tylerw, Friday, October 7, 2022 3:36 PM (eleven months ago) bookmarkflaglink

I endorse this view. It was the best show of theirs I've seen (2x in '99 and 2x in 2010). The band seemed into performing in a way they hadn't any of the other times I had seen them. Appreciative. Generous. (Maybe this was all in my head). All the young people being into it was really nice as well.

I mean the way they jammed out certain songs, they should just keep touring. Get a little of that Wilco jam-adjacent money. Hacky sack in the parking lot.

Ah man, that setlist looks amazing. "Half a Canyon" is the song I'd most like to see them do live.

I’d like Malkmus to be able to return to his solo career, but if they did another round of touring in ‘24 I might have to catch them again

stephen going the neil route with pavement as his crazy horse would be my vote

^^^ yes

really jealous I wasn't able to see them on this tour but absolutely loved them in 2010 so if I don't see them again I still have my "saw them one more time" feeling to get me past the pretty bad terror twilight show I saw in New York at the end of the 90s (indeed that show in some sense *was* the end of *my* 90s)

I was at one of those (Irving Plaza) shows…

Seeing them in fall ‘22 was especially big for me because I missed the 2010 tour entirely

I caught last night's Brooklyn Steel show, and as I was standing in line, I was pretty amazed that everyone around me seemed to be in their early or mid-20's, and at least one person mentioned they were too young to make the first reunion in 2010. My first Pavement show was in 2010, and likewise, it seemed like I was surrounded by college kids or 20-somethings. It seemed to be a sign that their audience doesn't really age the way other acts have - for example, when I saw Beck's solo one-off in 2021 at Irving Plaza, I got the feeling most of the people there had been listening to him in the '90s.

And yes, it was a great show, and perfectly complemented that 2010 show I saw, which was kind of the perfect show for new fans if you could only see one show - a virtual "best of" setlist, and incredibly the few popular favorites that weren't played at that show were played last night. ("Here" was most welcome.)

opened with Elevate Me Later, possibly my favorite Pavement song. We also got a bunch of WZ favs (Black Out, Father to a Sister, Half a Canyon, Fight this Generation). A beautiful Here closed the first set.

jealous!

I know there’s probably no money to be made in it, but I’d love the band to cobble together some sort of composite commemorate live LP - maybe the best of the best style.

Or pick two of the best shows and issue them as a double album (or whatever). Yes, I know most of these shows have surfaced as fan bootlegs, but surely Pavement were doing their own higher fidelity recordings here and there.

would be cool! i think they should take a page from Sonic Youth and start digging into their live archives, put some good shows up on Bandcamp, etc. When I interviewed Spiral late last year he said they had a bunch of stuff lying around.

Just saw this while looking up a Podcast Mike Stax mentioned on his own Ugly Things one
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4AVvPthXIIL2SVshBdkZyl?si=b9c145731669491a

I caught them 5 or 6 times on the 2010 tour, and was pretty bored by the time I got to the last few (didn't help I worked 4 nights of shows at Brixton in a row so some obvious burnout on my part). But putting that aside the 2 shows I saw last year were far far better than any of the 2010 ones and I'm so glad I got to see them.

I went to a show at a tiny venue last night (The Kilowatt SF) and recalled it was the last place I'd seen Pavement prior to last year's reunion shows, maybe 100 people fit in there. So I had a 25 year gap between that show and the latest reunion.