New Order Substance album R rubbish

Despite the presence of Blue Monday and the tedious remixes of some of the later sinlges, there is just too much classic material to write it off completely.

Wish they'd waited for the full version of Touched By The Hand of God though - the last of the essential 12" versions.

partly responsible for Egyptian Empire's The Horn Track

------------

Say what!?! Then he is somebody. :) 'The Horn Track' = ace.

Mark S what do you think of New Order's singles heh heh.

I R thinking kind of person who R saying that Substance is new order best album is the kind of person who only own Substance and Power, Corruption and Lies (that being the best "as it R having bluemonday on it")

There were two versions of Ceremony one was recorded before Gillian Gilbert joined and is on the FAC 33 7" and 12"(green sleeve). The other version is with Gillian and is on the cream/Blue sleeve 12" (FAC 33T). It's the Gillian version which is on Substance.

I think everything you do is rubbish, he said maturely.

Substance is a good single collection, but it stops a bit early. You need both it and "Best Of" to get the full New Order single experience, although even then you won't get the singles from "Get Ready".

The new album seems to be pretty good, but maybe it does trail off a bit. It's nice to see Billy Corgan finding work.

My

Anyone saying NO R beter singles band R purely mentalist.

Nicole, _Get Ready_ will take you over. I can't stop listening to it; I've played it more this week than I have the NEW PRINCE ALBUM, which is a hell of a statement coming from me. Right now, I'm listening to the slow-burn swagger of "Slow Jam" and I'm happier than I thought I could be at a New Order album that wasn't _Movement_ or _Technique_.

"brotherhood" is surprising popular, wasn`t it considered a bit of a dud on release? the band are said to dislike it intensely(apart from hooky who`s hardly discerning). after over a decade of apathy i have at last found myself being seduced by its eccentric all-over-the- placeness; its much better than new kid on the block "get ready". as for lowlife, that record is quite brilliant, i understand bernards voice can grate, but the songs are genuinely excellent, and the production still sounds remarkably good considering it was made at the dawn of digital tecnology.

"technique" is very good pop record but to these ears is a little too perfect, by that stage all the rough edges had been smoothed away, and the band were tamed...next stop "republic". I`ve always thought the preoccupation with "pop" is what ruined new order, they really need to step back from the mainstream if they want to do anything worthwhile in the future. lets face it at this stage they`re not going to shift major units, they might as well try to be good, or should i say; sumner write a fucking decent lyric u fat knob end!

"blue monday" in no way their best single, but at the time of release sounded a helluva lot more polished and frankly futuristic in its sheen, than just about anything else. AND whats more it still sounds incredible in a club environment.

_Get Ready_/_Movement_ (depending on mood, these two switch position for me)
_Technique_
_Power, Corruption, And Lies_/_Republic_ (again, these switch depending on mood)
_Low- Life_
_Brotherhood

If we were counting _Substance_, it would be tied with _Technique_. As far as their singles go, I can't think of a bad one besides possibly "Run" and "Spooky". "World In Motion" is tons of fun, even if it isn't as awe-inspiring as their first three singles.

I will not stand for people talking trash about "Shellshock" because it was the first New Order song I ever heard and is primarily responsible for me investigating the band further. "State Of The Nation" is FANTASTIC dancy fun in the best possible way. "60 MPH" is a blinder; wonderful chords, wonderful riff, wonderful melody, and perhaps the greatest bridge of the year. "Spooky" is... weak and forgettable. Offer me a million dollars to hum the tune for you and I couldn't. What we should do is rate the singles! That would be ever so much fun.

after 10 years of planning, I just got round finally buying Brotherhood and it's fantastic...!!
I'd avoided it because of the singles they made around the time which I thought were terrible (eg. State of teh nation, Shellshock) and was kinda dreading that cheesy 80s synth sound (and bongo breakdowns..). I wasn't expecting such an electric guitar-based sound. Retrospectively, Get Ready kinda picks up where that one left off IMO.
so why is it usually overlooked?

Forgot how marvellous 1963 was - beautiful record, perhaps an update is needed on this one.

And all the remixes are incredible. No question.

Lovely artwork, too.

I pretty much thing anything New Order did is rubbish.
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Sunday, December 2, 2001 8:00 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

You know, Tad, up until now I've thought you as an enjoyable writer and a pretty cool guy. Now, however, I am forced to conclude that you should be hung, drawn and quartered. Nothing personal.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, December 2, 2001 8:00 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark

what an ass i was back then. ned was, of course, very much correct.

"Heavens! I kill you know ;-)"

The original vinyl versh of "Substance" is probably the only decent equivalent of a New Order compil of that year-stretch, containing as it does the full version of "Perfect Kiss" and not the edited specimen on the CD versh!!!! The CD versh to be fair has the original "1963" on the second CD, but the rest is "Dodgy Instrumental version of Side A", including that one of Blue Monday, which only stick in back corners of my memory on account of it being used in a "World Im Action" documentary on the Thatcher's era criminal justice system for young offenders!!!!!! Mind you, the the B-sides for "Confusion" and "Temptation" at least gave one an idea of what the original flippin songs sounded before NO decided re-record the A-sides in 1987 Linn-Drum Hell for Substance!!!!!

Yes, people slammed Ralf Hutter for his bonkers "remastering" of the Kraftwerk Klassiks, but they seem to forget that New Order was doing even worse to their inestimable back catalogue starting with Substance, and it's farking dim rerecordings of two of their more rather well received gramophone recordings!!! In particular, their rework of "Temptation" defies logic, given that Mr Summer doesn't even seem to be able to sing the high notes in the chorus any more!!!! That and the blimmin' Linn-Drum snare DONK DONKing all over the shop, kind of disproves the theory that in 1987 they were a tad worried that unearthing the originals might have been embarrasing to all concerned!!!! Which they aren't anyway, and thank goodness for the album remasters, which re-instate them, and prove they were nothing to be embarrassed about!!! And I should know!!!!!!

That's probably where you're going to get a defintive compil from, not the "Really Really Best of New Order" from whatever Tesco outlet you get it from nowadays!!!! Nearly every blimmin' compil I've heard of, courtesy of a friend who says "Woo, I didn't know they did this!!!!", to which my reaction is "I didn't know they did either!!!! Mainly because someone else has remixed it since I last listened to it!!!!!!!" It's like the tracks have been re-tooled soany times, they've become the gramophone of a really crap Cyberman, in an episode of Torchwood!!!!! Written by Chris Chibnall!!!!!

Ahem, anyway!!!! Apart from the two "Chibnalls", the vinyl versh of Substance is really jolly good!!! If you want perfect tho, you'll probably have to rely on some friends with the remasters to fill in the blanks!!!! And if you want to wait for a decent official compil, you'll prob have to wait till Hooky or Sumner kicks tha bouquet!!!!

what do I get out of this

You always try!

I saw some review complaining about the sound on the new re-release. I haven't listened yet, how does it hold up?

xxp Omg… I never saw an Old Fart!!!!! post longer than a sentence or two.

The new version sounds good. It now contains the full 8:46 version of "The Perfect Kiss." "Sub-culture" and "Shellshock" are still edits, though.

new version is very smiley-faced EQ, bright highs and lots of bass (on vinyl anyway). I like it personally, if you don't like that approach it might annoy you. I'm slightly bummed they didn't go ahead and expand the vinyl to include the second CD. The black vinyl pressing is apparently f'ed up but the blue and red one is fine. but it's also largely sold out now.

good, confident use of “Chibnall” as pejorative term as early as 2010 from poster Old Fart - impressive

i believe the OG vinyl substance does trim down The Perfect Kiss just a little

Listening now, sounds great on my little kitchen speaker.

This was my introduction to this album;

https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/gfx/28482/HiRes-1.jpg

Is it just me or is there a bit of this tune in Sub-Culture's DNA?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtofDmgPfz8
Sphinx - Bad Girl (1983)

Hm, maybe? Good catch, regardless.

Wouldn't be the first time New Order pulled influence from italo-disco.

Yeah exactly my thinking! Klein + MBO > Blue Monday, IMO 'Dancing Therapy' > BLT... what else?

Oh and Mr Disco obv

This has been cited as a big inspiration for "Blue Monday," especially the stuttering bass drum at :23, but I also hear "Temptation:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uU9ikIg8FU

I canno thandel recent New Order production values

What is recent? I thought Music Complete sounded ok - has that post-Crystal problem that the song structures are a bit too simple/repetitive and end up getting dirgey but that’s not a production issue

I do dislike when the drum tracks feel too pissweak - eg Here To Stay / Be A Rebel

basically when they produce themselves (as they did on Music Complete) they sound fine

Can I just say, "1981–1982"? That whole EP? That's the stuff right there.

"I do dislike when the drum tracks feel too pissweak - eg Here To Stay / Be A Rebel"

those songs are crap; the drumtrack is only part of the problem

"here to stay" is one of the better post-republic tracks though

I thought Music Complete sounded ok - has that post-Crystal problem that the song structures are a bit too simple/repetitive and end up getting dirgey but that’s not a production issue

yeah post-reunion they just lost all sense of when something should be a tight 3-4 minute pop song unfortunately. releasing fairly pointless extended mixes of all the music complete tracks when they were already too long as-is was a funny move though

Eh. Music Complete is pretty forgettable, with the fairly minor exception of "Plastic." Some of the material sounds OK live, mixed in with better stuff.

tutti
FROOOTi

Tutti Frutti

We miss Hooky

eh I don't

They wouldn't have sounded better or worse, and the new guys are good ringers.

Nothing after 2001 is essential like Technique is, but I admire half of Get Ready, Waiting for the Sirens Call, and Music Complete. The songwriting's assured, Sumner sounds ragged, but except for the gross rock sound of GR few things offend. In the three times I've seen'em live they adapt to new technology but keep the same sequencers and keyb sounds. With or without Hooky they're a nostalgia act who can still write the occasional great song.

They have no edge without him, but I agree, the sound is nearly the same. I suppose you could replace any member and get about the same effect.

They never had The Edge, that’s a different band

i agree each of these albums has a handful of worthy songs; music complete the best of the three. I remember thinking Lost Sirens was just awful when it came out, but then I listened to it again a few years later and thought it was ok. I don't remember anything about it now.

I like all their post reunion albums - all pleasantly elegiac MOR, with the odd "rocking" clunker. They sound great live, better than they did in the 80s. Don't miss Hooky at all

Honestly forgot the newer albums existed. Well, I still sometimes put on "Sirens" call. But the others? Nah. They have solid live these last several years, but it's pretty much pure nostalgia, which is fine, though maybe that is the cost of losing Hook.

Re: drums, Morris of course rules, but iirc a lot of new albums used (reused?) the same beat. Basically the "Regret" beat.

I honestly enjoyed Hooky's show last year at least as much as I did New Order's.

Hence their charm. They're all expendable except Morris.

Heh. When my son and I saw NO last year, he said of Morris, "He's not in the pocket, he is the pocket."