Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

I can't get worked up and annoyed about Bruce in the way I can about some other rockers. He has an ear for a great line (the opening of "Hungry Heart" for instance) and I can forgive him a lot for that. He doesn't resonate with me and like the Replacements I think that's a cultural thing.

I also - and this is totally subjective - never get the impression Bruce ever thinks he's particularly cool. Which is not something I can say of most other 'real rock'n'roller' types, mainstream or otherwise.

File under yet to be discovered. I was listening to an apologetic defence of his work from Sean Rowley on the radio the other day, and it got me wondering again. People of my generation's first real exposure to him was the 'Born in the USA' air-punching era and that obviously wasn't likely to engender much interest. Yes, I know it was all ironic.

What I have heard of his 70's stuff sounds like I might grow to love it. That midwest blue-collar world his songs inhabit seems harder to relate to than any other, but even in 1988, I had the feeling Paddy McAloon was missing the point with the song 'Cars & Girls'.

At the moment, I'm afraid the song of his I like best is a 90s one - 'If I Should Fall Behind', which I only know from the Grant McLellan cover version.

Badly Drawn Boy is a Springsteen obsessive, which I thought was quite cute.

N.

And yes, Tom, he's got a very good ear for a line.

I heard the version of "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" when I was young and that is pretty spiff, I freely agree. Circa 1984, liking El Bruce was unsurprising for me as that was a pretty damn good radio year -- Chuck Eddy specifically called it as such in _Stairway to Hell_, and he was goddamn right. Thus liking all that stuff he made was a matter of course alongside all those singles from _Purple Rain_ and _Like A Virgin_ and etc.

Time went on and I proceeded to not care. I never cared enough to buy an album anyway, and the 'classic early singles' only made sense in my classic rock phase, which lasted about nine months in senior year.

Then I ended up in LA and encountered the first of Robert Hilburn's 345,234,843 printed sermons on How Bruce Springsteen Heals the Sick, Raises the Dead and Means More to Human Existence Than the Combined Efforts of Louis Pasteur, Billie Holiday and Charles Schulz. I encountered other blowhards. The music touched me with the impact of a dying flea. A roommate was obsessed with him to the point of near mania. I cried.

The end.

Frankly, the Walkabouts any day of the goddamn week, month, year, decade, century, etc. If the relative fame levels were reversed, I would cling to this assumption with even more deep, abiding passion because then I would have The People on my side. Even alone, though, it's comfy. And Frankie Goes to Hollywood's version of "Born to Run" is my fave.

i actually liked born_in_the_u.s.a when it came out at age 7, but later, i found it to be an obstacle in getting to love bruce, and i'm sure there are a ton of artists out there whose work at that time has kept people away from them.

as sterling said, it's funny what driving a car can do, especially when it's another dark and lonely night out on an empty anonymous new jersey highway and "born to run" comes on the highway. but i've been there, so i'll move on.

you can get by on the first five or so albums on the music and production alone -- unless of course you hate phil spector and are, therefore, destined to spend eternity in hell -- and the later stuff will stick if you find something in the lyrics that rings far too true. sure, he mines the same territory in a lot of his songs, but so do belle & sebastian and so did the smiths; except the kids in bruce's songs could kick the ass of their counterparts in the aforementioned.

ned, i think you have the same problem as tom: it's a cultural thing. ;)

It's not a cultural thing; I mean for god's sake Motorcycle Emptiness might as well be Bruce Springsteen on a literacy trip in terms of subject, and I know Tom likes the song, and I believe Ned does too. Whether that particular statement was tongue in cheek or not, it's a tired excuse and reasoning, one usually used by the saddest of Bruce Springsteen fans, the ones who "identify" with his sentiments, seemingly losing track of the fact that BRUCE'S CHARACTERS NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE IT OUT. Some positive role models to rock out to.

The thing is, I think it's the voice and the earnestness, which was already said. The stylistic values of it....the basic cultural and escape sentiments, lyrically, of Motorcycle Emptiness and Born to Run might be very similar in tone, but the style and vocalisings are entirely, 100% different. Bruce has a very sarcastic bent, a very dark bent, lyrically, but his style of music softens the blow and sometimes people just don't like it.

And those people are wrong, incidentally :P

Nebraska is half good but doesn't deserve the plaudits it gets as the Springsteen album it's cool to like.

The rest is pretty much DUD.

Nevermind that Born in the USA was my first record not meant to be played on the Fisher Price record player (with the STEEL NEEDLE)

Nevermind Tracks Nevermind the fact that Born to Run is one of the best driving albums ever when your top is down and it's summer and the road between Ventura and home stretches out and empty at night with no cops...

Nevermind he has out Dylan-ed Dylan

Nevermind that he can outrage The Man as he pushes the dark side of life. (41 Shots)

Nevermind the line "The record company Rosie, JUST GAVE ME A BIG ADVANCE!"

Nevermind the Live box set, reminding us just how powerful he was

Nevermind Time and Newsweek

Nevermind Thunder-Fucking-Road

Nevermind The cover of Jersey Girl

Nevermind Tracks

Nevermind the MTV Unplugged set where he scrapped the entire notion of an acoustic show and just plugged in and tore down the house

Nevermind everyone on this list who called him a dud.

well, Bruce isn't *that* bad! ;)

La Bruce just collectively calls to my mind a stunted bastard vision of music that presumes he was the sole carrier of the 'spirit of rock and roll truth' that the Beatles and Stones 'started' in the sixties. A CLAIM I HAVE ENCOUNTERED MORE THAN ONCE, though thankfully not here, and happily never from the man's own lips either, at least to my knowledge. Without that rhetoric I would just shrug and ignore him for somebody more interesting, but with it, frankly, he becomes a very very useful target to kick against. Perhaps only a straw man, but one I wouldn't mind seeing go up in flames.

The boy has fallen off of late, but... I'm reminded of the Bangs article where he describes how he dismissed this Maoist band as sounding like Bruce, and the band replied "oh, good, the working class like that stuff" or something of the sort, and I'm reading this thinking -- no. no. no. The correct answer is "oh, good. Bruce fucking rocks!"

What I appreciate about Bruce is how he can capture the majesty of a major chord. How so many of his songs have the same progression, but you don't realize it 'till you try to play 'em yourself. How he can take gospel music and write it to a girl instead. And yes, more of them damn anthems.

I mean.. I know that anthems aren't an alien concept to the UK -- after all, The Who were full of them. But maybe British anthems are a different type a "get off of my cloud" or "sod off" type, more cynical and pissy than dreamy and wide-eyed. Maybe this is, after all, because America is The Big Country, The Great Bitch, et cet. Maybe to get America you have to get just how there's always somewhere you might go, maybe.

Along these lines, "Not Fade Away" which is a novel by Jim Dodge is a great rock road story, sort of like the lighter side of Richard Hell's "Go Now" or the more earnest(?) side of Bruce McCullough's "Doors Fan" sketch (on his album, Shame-Based Man). Yes. Get that spirit of the open highway.

I will say, though, that I do lack a car and have never had one. That might serve as a better explanation. ;-)

I wish I wasn't misinterpreting.

Inspirational in some ways. I have often felt that England needed a Springsteen, albeit not just a a copycat 'rocker'; I mean, someone who would write about all the lost and found small-town lives. But to be fair, I suppose there is already a UK tradition here: the probably Jarvis Cocker is a case in point.

1. they don't understand that he's actually not as "pro-america" as they might think he is

2. they don't have as close a connection to "old school" code (which includes "old school" rock)

3. they are mostly college kids on their way up to some office job or whatever that is removed (if not far removed) from the "underworld" (the "blue collar" or "real" world) to get the lyrical sentiments

4. well, and...sometimes people just don't like something 'cause they just don't like it

I, however, do not apply to any of those 4. For I actually do "get" some of the appeal of Bruce (albeit, it took my until my mid or late twenties to get there). Sure, his overly sentimental (downright broadway or maudlin) look at the working class can be a bit (or a bunch) too much. And sure, his music can be too simple and/or too derivitive. But, that's a part of the whole. Familiarity in both music and lyrics, is a large part of the appeal of his stuff (and those like him, ala Mellencamp, etc). He just had the concept to put nearly a whole career on the working class/blue collar life like no other has (not in such a wide reaching broad sense, at least - other than Mellencamp, but Bruce did it a bit better and first).

Classics:

Having said all that, 'Nebraska' and 'Ghost of Tom Joad' are the only two full albums that I would declare anywhere near a "classic" state of existence (with 'Nebraska' being the one clear-cut vote). Many of the rest of his 70's and 80's albums have some good solid worthy singles on them, but. I can't go so far as to get 'The River' (for example) anywhere near a "classic" nod. That one, in particular, I find to be overrated (though still having the wonderful track "Stolen Car" and the title track deserving of 'Nebraska'-like attention).

Anyways, I forgot to mention to huge (to the point of shadowing) element as to one of the why's (or why not's) of enjoy/appreciating Bruce. Which is: DRIVING. Cars and driving is such a central and/or reoccuring figure/subject in his work that...I can't believe I forgot to touch upon that (only after reading some of the others posts, darn it). But yea, I do LOVE to drive. Which also helps to explain the appeal of Springsteen (to me, at least).

*By the way, I do own that McCulloch album 'Shame Based Man' and...love it (some really funny stuff and one of the very rare comedy albums worthy of many plays - if not it's own discussion here on "I Love Music"...anyone?). Every single one of my girlfriends (one present, others past) hated it. "And if (after torching the stolen car) you can still hear the Doors playing...then you have become...a DOORS...FAN!" I'm not a Doors fan, however.

I hadn't listened to this record in a couple of years, but god, it still sounded great. Actually, I kept getting shivers down my spine when it was playing and it had me close to tears a few times (mostly on "Thunder Road" and "Backstreets.") Listening to this today finally settled an ILM debate for me: Music can never affect me quite as much now as it did when I was a teenager. No record I've heard in the last few years, including Loveless, has had as much affect on me as Born to Run did this morning, and I know it's not just because Born to Run is such a great album. This is a record that got to me when I was young and emotionally vulnerable in a way that I'm not anymore, at the age of 32. I still feel music very deeply and appreciate and enjoy a wider range of music than ever, but music doesn’t completely overpower me the way it did when I was 15. Oh well.

Springsteen is still a big classic, by the way, despite all the incredibly corny lines on Born to Run.

"candy's room" is the grebtest song ever written about being in love w. a prostitute when you sound a bit like david bowie

Is this a new genre? Cos that'd be fucking incredible.

I still love Bruce Springsteen. Put on Rosalita and you will see me go insane.

LOL

Bruce-related writing prompt

what exactly are the roles of the two very good lead guitar players who've spent the better part of their lives in the backing band for a guy who's a pretty great lead guitarist on his own and seems to take most of the leads himself? how (and why) are parts divided among the three?

(my favorite non-bruce e street live lead: nils on "because the night")

fact checking cuz, you've neatly located the area of Springsteen's work that I have zero idea how to talk about, but I'd love to know the answer if anyone has it.

tbh, I really don't like the guitar solo on "Because the Night." Not the solo itself, exactly, more the fact that it exists. Every time Bruce writes one of his "please have sex with me because I am sad" songs, he slaps a big old showboating guitar solo on it to remind you that he's still a dude, and sometimes that works for me but in "Because the Night" it always takes me out of the song. There he is, undercutting traditional gender roles and ideas about working-class masculinity, showing us a blue-collar worker who is stressed and vulnerable and in need of refuge, and then he takes a three-minute break in the middle of the song for a guitar solo that is none of those things. I don't like it, even when it's Nils doing the playing. It feels like a cop-out.

Because the Night is both my least favorite Bruce song AND my least favorite Patti song. It isn't quite my least favorite Natalie Merchant/10K Maniacs song, but that's only because I haven't thought enough about them to decide on a least favorite.

My philosophy is that sex is a metaphor for connection. So a song about longing for sex is a song about longing for connection, which means that a song that explicitly asks for sex is fundamentally about loneliness.

The relationship songs that reach the most profundity are the ones where the relationship is already established, and the participants are trying to work out how to manage it or process its meaning. Hence "One Step Up," "Brilliant Disguise," plus some verses of "My Home Town," "Thunder Road," "The Rising."

i am going to need a minute

i feel winded

the solo on “because the night” is fucking great

like you cannot go from that huge chorus into some lowkey noodly feelingsy type shit it HAS to go to that type of solo because regardless of gender roles & whatever garnish he’s putting over in the lyrics the bottom line (dare i spell it out) is that he is ~horny~ & this is a ~rock song~ and they are gonna ~do it~
that’s what the solo is for!!
sorry but thats just facts

That song’s BS, anyway…. we all know the night belongs to Michelob.

the solo on “because the night” is fucking great

haha yes i obviously agree. it sounds especially free to me when they do it live. like it could go off the rails at any moment in a way that bruce/e st solos rarely do.

tbh, I really don't like the guitar solo on "Because the Night"

but i'm intrigued by lily's take, which is from an angle i've never thought about! it would be far from alone in the bruce oeuvre as a song where the words and music are in some sort of conflict with each other, but usually that's a conscious choice, the one providing an emotional counterpoint to the other. i never noticed that conflict in "because the night." i've always had the same basic reading as vg -- horny song, horny solo, voila! but could there be two mismatched impulses here? an unintended, revealing conflict? and/or maybe the gtr solo *is* the refuge you're referring to, lily? i don't know. i kind of feel i want to sit with this idea for a minute.

I love 'one step up', so much.

That song’s BS, anyway…. we all know the night belongs to Michelob.

New compilation coming from Ace Records in the UK:

https://acerecords.co.uk/ladies-sing-the-boss

Part of the inspiration for this compilation came from me going to see the all-female Bruce tribute act the She Street Band at the Clapham Grand in 2019 and experiencing how these songs, which I had known all my life, took on another perspective when seen through the filter of a female protagonist.

What the tracks on this collection do is allow the singer to own the essence of the song and claim it as theirs. Anna Calvi is the driver of the car in ‘Fire’, it’s Moa Holmsten’s hand that slips up the woman’s skirt on ‘Highway 29’, and Emmylou Harris totally owns the dreamscape anxiety of ‘My Father’s House’.

Here's to good friends
The night is kind of special

The beer we pour
Must say something more

Somehow

Low key obsessed with the Hammersmith Odeon version of his Detroit Medley. Better than coffee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyQieGYfmfs

How has no-one else posted about THIS

http://www.backstreets.com/Assets/Images/2022/news2023EuropeDates.jpg

Oh yeah European tour

part of me is like
YESSS us tour next year wahoo

the other part of me is like
WE MUST PROTECT BRUCE AT ALL COSTS HE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT BE TOURING

Tempted to try to buy a ticket to see him in Hamburg as I haven't been to Europe in five years and have friends I'd like to visit. Feels like a risky plan to make this far in advance, though - who knows what things will be like next summer?

you can always unload the show ticket(s).. just book the travel and stuff a lot closer to the date

when do the North American dates come out?

They said US dates will begin in February, iirc, and then resume after the European dates (which I think have already been expanded a little beyond the ones listed). Might try to see him with a friend in Sweden. All I know is that the last tour, back in 2016, was the first time he seemed a little older and slower to me, and of course it's been six years since then. I have no idea how he (and his voice!) will hold up, but I'm hoping for the best. Then again, he sounded pretty good at that Steve Earle benefit a few months ago, and of course he sounds great on "Letter to Me."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lyR_VpBTWA

oh come on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6w3xLqR_Os

I know, right?

noooooo theyre putting their boring stink all over him right before a tour!?

also kinetic floors & bicycles oh please kindly fuck off

LMAO. My partner is a big, big Coldplay, so it was inevitable that we’d go to a show. THIS was the show so it was a pretty damn welcome surprise. (McCartney’s got a show coming up in the same place, the last of the North American leg of the tour - bet Bruce pops in for that.)

I can’t dump on the band but I will say in the lead up to the show, I started thinking how bewildering and fascinating everyone from Jay-Z and Beyoncé (who were at the show) to Frank Ocean to U2 and R.E.M. are Coldplay fans. The one time everything comes together for me is “Yellow” which I wouldn’t call atypical (probably quintessential if anything) but it’s the one time where their stuff lights up for me and it was actually pretty memorable to witness it at the show.

They kind of remind me of the nicest, most straight-laced upperclassmen I went to school with, guys who got elected to student council, won track meets and went to good schools, probably good jobs as well and a family raised in a posh suburb. I kind of feel like that’s reflected in their work, if you know what I mean - I can’t say it translates into the things I personally find interesting or compelling in art, but my partner gets an immense amount of enjoyment in it.

Beyond music, the environmental friendly aspects of their tour is great - who else powers a stadium tour with completely renewable energy? That should be the case for everyone, to the point where it’s nothing anyone brags about. And there were a bunch of moments, while looking around at the lighting arrangement they devised for the show, where I thought “if you were into acid, NOW would be an perfect time to drop.”

So that’s all the nice things I have to say about them.

I have been to a couple shows where the artist indicated that the tour was carbon-neutral - by which I gather they meant offsets. (You buy a ticket, someone plants a tree in Norway or something.) Can't remember who. A 90s indie songstress of some sort. KT Tunstall, Eliza Carthy, Michelle Shocked?

They did not mean that their amps were solar-powered, or that the lights in the venue were run by windmills, or that their tour bus was electric. Not sure what Coldplay is doing but yeah, that's something every artist should be doing.

They had a detailed description of what they were doing on the screens before the show actually started. I was very impressed - power came from a variety of sources, enough to charge up everything before each show. And in terms of environmental impact, even the plastic wrist lights they handed out (which you return in bins before leaving the venue) were made from renewable materials, I'm guessing plant-based resin instead of common petroleum-based plastics.

Even though they're roughly middle-aged, it was kind of like a boy-band pop show. I've only been to one other show at MetLife - the Stones. They were singing about sex and murder with projections of Mick et al looking like they were consumed by hellfire - the highlight, "Midnight Rambler," was like a ghost train barreling straight through hell. (This was three years ago, before I went to any shows with my partner.) Coldplay's show was aesthetically the complete opposite in every possible way.

Even though they're roughly middle-aged, it was kind of like a boy-band pop show.

Didn't they work with Max Martin on their most recent records? They know what they need to do to keep filling arenas.

Bruce and SVZ just showed up at McCartney's show and played "Glory Days" (perfect choice - Paul turns 80 in a few days) and "I Wanna Be Your Man"!

Actually Van Zandt didn't join (though he was at the show).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIS1XTZAQA

And he came back out for "The End"

Paul McCartney e Bruce Springsteen tocando “The End” no MetLife Stadium, em East Rutherford (16/06) #PaulMcCartneyGotBack
📸: edkeller66 pic.twitter.com/kxCK0ay4gO

— The Beatles BR 🍏 (@TheBeatleBR) June 17, 2022

(Apologies, the Twitter link actually misses all but one of Springsteen's turns at a guitar solo.)

I'm biased, but it's kinda amazing how he can just command the stage next to Paul friggin McCartney. Also, that they are both really old, too. Octogenarian Macca making me more hopeful for the Bruce tour.

If I had to pick between Bruce and the Beatles, it would have to be the Beatles, but I absolutely agree, it's impressive how Springsteen completely takes the show when they launch into "Glory Days." Some credit goes to McCartney - I want to say being in the Beatles gave him a natural inclination to cede the spotlight and make room for someone else when he knows he's backing them up - but the song actually makes Springsteen look like the greater songwriter. It's a cliché that McCartney's songwriting is pretty lopsided, where he's unmatched as a melodist and arranger but frustratingly uneven as a lyricist. While both of them can come up with immensely catchy ear worms that can seem corny in the wrong context, Springsteen's usually has a lot more going under the surface, and that's exactly what I get from "Glory Days." Musically, it starts off like a lot of McCartney's poppier hits, but with every line and every verse, there are nuances and a level of detail in the storytelling that's typically absent in McCartney's post-Beatles output. McCartney's pop hits can feel like nothing songs in comparison.

"Glory Days" has gradually become the Springsteen song I look forward to hearing the most in the wild. Sure, I'm now maybe 10 years older than he was when he wrote it, but I also credit the disciplined economy of his writing.

It really feels like a perfect song written for the future. I know there's a lot of darkness to it, but in true Springsteen fashion, he manages to find a lot of humor in the same subject as well, and last night that last verse was especially hilarious, especially with McCartney repeating the same exact stories over and over again at every show in every tour since at least 2002.

(Though to be fair, they're not really boring stories - the first time I saw him and heard them, it was cool af.)

Where was that funny twitter thing about all the talking heads (Dave Grohl, Lars, Elton etc) talking about Ringo a little while back?

Oh, this, sorry for the derail:

"Ringo, man, he was like a drum machine, you gotta remember this was -before- the invention of the drum machine" pic.twitter.com/Ze6ydRcDYG

— Jesse Hawken (@jessehawken) November 30, 2021

Not actually a derail since The Boss is in there. Not the very start of the thread either but I will leave that be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK-lSq3vVZ0

https://rockinsights.com/assets/images/Artist%20Images/Bruce%20Springsteen/Screenshot_2015-10-26-10-07-22~2.png

Who's that guy with Joe Walsh's brother-in-law?

If I'm Garry Tallent and I'm watching that "Glory Days" clip, my mind is blown because I'm thinking, "When I was a teenager I played Paul's bass lines...and now HE'S playing one of MY bass lines."

good point!

I thought this was weirdly amusing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nFjXv1MpAk

Reminds me of an old Conan sketch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0XnP_1TaAo

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR8J4_Q74RM

Lol! Bonus points for Percussion Poobah Joe Levy JudgeCam content.