Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

I can't get worked up and annoyed about Bruce in the way I can about some other rockers. He has an ear for a great line (the opening of "Hungry Heart" for instance) and I can forgive him a lot for that. He doesn't resonate with me and like the Replacements I think that's a cultural thing.

I also - and this is totally subjective - never get the impression Bruce ever thinks he's particularly cool. Which is not something I can say of most other 'real rock'n'roller' types, mainstream or otherwise.

File under yet to be discovered. I was listening to an apologetic defence of his work from Sean Rowley on the radio the other day, and it got me wondering again. People of my generation's first real exposure to him was the 'Born in the USA' air-punching era and that obviously wasn't likely to engender much interest. Yes, I know it was all ironic.

What I have heard of his 70's stuff sounds like I might grow to love it. That midwest blue-collar world his songs inhabit seems harder to relate to than any other, but even in 1988, I had the feeling Paddy McAloon was missing the point with the song 'Cars & Girls'.

At the moment, I'm afraid the song of his I like best is a 90s one - 'If I Should Fall Behind', which I only know from the Grant McLellan cover version.

Badly Drawn Boy is a Springsteen obsessive, which I thought was quite cute.

N.

And yes, Tom, he's got a very good ear for a line.

I heard the version of "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" when I was young and that is pretty spiff, I freely agree. Circa 1984, liking El Bruce was unsurprising for me as that was a pretty damn good radio year -- Chuck Eddy specifically called it as such in _Stairway to Hell_, and he was goddamn right. Thus liking all that stuff he made was a matter of course alongside all those singles from _Purple Rain_ and _Like A Virgin_ and etc.

Time went on and I proceeded to not care. I never cared enough to buy an album anyway, and the 'classic early singles' only made sense in my classic rock phase, which lasted about nine months in senior year.

Then I ended up in LA and encountered the first of Robert Hilburn's 345,234,843 printed sermons on How Bruce Springsteen Heals the Sick, Raises the Dead and Means More to Human Existence Than the Combined Efforts of Louis Pasteur, Billie Holiday and Charles Schulz. I encountered other blowhards. The music touched me with the impact of a dying flea. A roommate was obsessed with him to the point of near mania. I cried.

The end.

Frankly, the Walkabouts any day of the goddamn week, month, year, decade, century, etc. If the relative fame levels were reversed, I would cling to this assumption with even more deep, abiding passion because then I would have The People on my side. Even alone, though, it's comfy. And Frankie Goes to Hollywood's version of "Born to Run" is my fave.

i actually liked born_in_the_u.s.a when it came out at age 7, but later, i found it to be an obstacle in getting to love bruce, and i'm sure there are a ton of artists out there whose work at that time has kept people away from them.

as sterling said, it's funny what driving a car can do, especially when it's another dark and lonely night out on an empty anonymous new jersey highway and "born to run" comes on the highway. but i've been there, so i'll move on.

you can get by on the first five or so albums on the music and production alone -- unless of course you hate phil spector and are, therefore, destined to spend eternity in hell -- and the later stuff will stick if you find something in the lyrics that rings far too true. sure, he mines the same territory in a lot of his songs, but so do belle & sebastian and so did the smiths; except the kids in bruce's songs could kick the ass of their counterparts in the aforementioned.

ned, i think you have the same problem as tom: it's a cultural thing. ;)

It's not a cultural thing; I mean for god's sake Motorcycle Emptiness might as well be Bruce Springsteen on a literacy trip in terms of subject, and I know Tom likes the song, and I believe Ned does too. Whether that particular statement was tongue in cheek or not, it's a tired excuse and reasoning, one usually used by the saddest of Bruce Springsteen fans, the ones who "identify" with his sentiments, seemingly losing track of the fact that BRUCE'S CHARACTERS NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE IT OUT. Some positive role models to rock out to.

The thing is, I think it's the voice and the earnestness, which was already said. The stylistic values of it....the basic cultural and escape sentiments, lyrically, of Motorcycle Emptiness and Born to Run might be very similar in tone, but the style and vocalisings are entirely, 100% different. Bruce has a very sarcastic bent, a very dark bent, lyrically, but his style of music softens the blow and sometimes people just don't like it.

And those people are wrong, incidentally :P

Nebraska is half good but doesn't deserve the plaudits it gets as the Springsteen album it's cool to like.

The rest is pretty much DUD.

Nevermind that Born in the USA was my first record not meant to be played on the Fisher Price record player (with the STEEL NEEDLE)

Nevermind Tracks Nevermind the fact that Born to Run is one of the best driving albums ever when your top is down and it's summer and the road between Ventura and home stretches out and empty at night with no cops...

Nevermind he has out Dylan-ed Dylan

Nevermind that he can outrage The Man as he pushes the dark side of life. (41 Shots)

Nevermind the line "The record company Rosie, JUST GAVE ME A BIG ADVANCE!"

Nevermind the Live box set, reminding us just how powerful he was

Nevermind Time and Newsweek

Nevermind Thunder-Fucking-Road

Nevermind The cover of Jersey Girl

Nevermind Tracks

Nevermind the MTV Unplugged set where he scrapped the entire notion of an acoustic show and just plugged in and tore down the house

Nevermind everyone on this list who called him a dud.

well, Bruce isn't *that* bad! ;)

La Bruce just collectively calls to my mind a stunted bastard vision of music that presumes he was the sole carrier of the 'spirit of rock and roll truth' that the Beatles and Stones 'started' in the sixties. A CLAIM I HAVE ENCOUNTERED MORE THAN ONCE, though thankfully not here, and happily never from the man's own lips either, at least to my knowledge. Without that rhetoric I would just shrug and ignore him for somebody more interesting, but with it, frankly, he becomes a very very useful target to kick against. Perhaps only a straw man, but one I wouldn't mind seeing go up in flames.

The boy has fallen off of late, but... I'm reminded of the Bangs article where he describes how he dismissed this Maoist band as sounding like Bruce, and the band replied "oh, good, the working class like that stuff" or something of the sort, and I'm reading this thinking -- no. no. no. The correct answer is "oh, good. Bruce fucking rocks!"

What I appreciate about Bruce is how he can capture the majesty of a major chord. How so many of his songs have the same progression, but you don't realize it 'till you try to play 'em yourself. How he can take gospel music and write it to a girl instead. And yes, more of them damn anthems.

I mean.. I know that anthems aren't an alien concept to the UK -- after all, The Who were full of them. But maybe British anthems are a different type a "get off of my cloud" or "sod off" type, more cynical and pissy than dreamy and wide-eyed. Maybe this is, after all, because America is The Big Country, The Great Bitch, et cet. Maybe to get America you have to get just how there's always somewhere you might go, maybe.

Along these lines, "Not Fade Away" which is a novel by Jim Dodge is a great rock road story, sort of like the lighter side of Richard Hell's "Go Now" or the more earnest(?) side of Bruce McCullough's "Doors Fan" sketch (on his album, Shame-Based Man). Yes. Get that spirit of the open highway.

I will say, though, that I do lack a car and have never had one. That might serve as a better explanation. ;-)

I wish I wasn't misinterpreting.

Inspirational in some ways. I have often felt that England needed a Springsteen, albeit not just a a copycat 'rocker'; I mean, someone who would write about all the lost and found small-town lives. But to be fair, I suppose there is already a UK tradition here: the probably Jarvis Cocker is a case in point.

1. they don't understand that he's actually not as "pro-america" as they might think he is

2. they don't have as close a connection to "old school" code (which includes "old school" rock)

3. they are mostly college kids on their way up to some office job or whatever that is removed (if not far removed) from the "underworld" (the "blue collar" or "real" world) to get the lyrical sentiments

4. well, and...sometimes people just don't like something 'cause they just don't like it

I, however, do not apply to any of those 4. For I actually do "get" some of the appeal of Bruce (albeit, it took my until my mid or late twenties to get there). Sure, his overly sentimental (downright broadway or maudlin) look at the working class can be a bit (or a bunch) too much. And sure, his music can be too simple and/or too derivitive. But, that's a part of the whole. Familiarity in both music and lyrics, is a large part of the appeal of his stuff (and those like him, ala Mellencamp, etc). He just had the concept to put nearly a whole career on the working class/blue collar life like no other has (not in such a wide reaching broad sense, at least - other than Mellencamp, but Bruce did it a bit better and first).

Classics:

Having said all that, 'Nebraska' and 'Ghost of Tom Joad' are the only two full albums that I would declare anywhere near a "classic" state of existence (with 'Nebraska' being the one clear-cut vote). Many of the rest of his 70's and 80's albums have some good solid worthy singles on them, but. I can't go so far as to get 'The River' (for example) anywhere near a "classic" nod. That one, in particular, I find to be overrated (though still having the wonderful track "Stolen Car" and the title track deserving of 'Nebraska'-like attention).

Anyways, I forgot to mention to huge (to the point of shadowing) element as to one of the why's (or why not's) of enjoy/appreciating Bruce. Which is: DRIVING. Cars and driving is such a central and/or reoccuring figure/subject in his work that...I can't believe I forgot to touch upon that (only after reading some of the others posts, darn it). But yea, I do LOVE to drive. Which also helps to explain the appeal of Springsteen (to me, at least).

*By the way, I do own that McCulloch album 'Shame Based Man' and...love it (some really funny stuff and one of the very rare comedy albums worthy of many plays - if not it's own discussion here on "I Love Music"...anyone?). Every single one of my girlfriends (one present, others past) hated it. "And if (after torching the stolen car) you can still hear the Doors playing...then you have become...a DOORS...FAN!" I'm not a Doors fan, however.

I hadn't listened to this record in a couple of years, but god, it still sounded great. Actually, I kept getting shivers down my spine when it was playing and it had me close to tears a few times (mostly on "Thunder Road" and "Backstreets.") Listening to this today finally settled an ILM debate for me: Music can never affect me quite as much now as it did when I was a teenager. No record I've heard in the last few years, including Loveless, has had as much affect on me as Born to Run did this morning, and I know it's not just because Born to Run is such a great album. This is a record that got to me when I was young and emotionally vulnerable in a way that I'm not anymore, at the age of 32. I still feel music very deeply and appreciate and enjoy a wider range of music than ever, but music doesn’t completely overpower me the way it did when I was 15. Oh well.

Springsteen is still a big classic, by the way, despite all the incredibly corny lines on Born to Run.

"candy's room" is the grebtest song ever written about being in love w. a prostitute when you sound a bit like david bowie

Is this a new genre? Cos that'd be fucking incredible.

I still love Bruce Springsteen. Put on Rosalita and you will see me go insane.

xp I like Bruce, I like his stories even though I've heard them all before, I like that he's making a genuine effort to actually talk about race. I sometimes find him a little self-satisfied these days, a little in love with the sound of his own voice and with the narratives that he's created about his life, but I can deal with that, because he's earned it imo and there are still genuine, charming moments when his natural weirdness still comes through.

You put him and Obama together, though, and Obama actually has a kind of similar vibe to me - that charming openness that goes only so far and no further, that glossy expertise in controlling the narrative and making it seem natural - and together they reinforce that quality in each other, where a good outside interviewer would have cut through it.

Or maybe it's just that it's a lot easier to let myself be charmed by Bruce Springsteen, rock star, than by a former president, even if he's a former president that I still like okay. That Bruce and Barack took a while to become friends because Bruce was shy, but then they got drunk together and sang show tunes, should be a really cute story, but I can't help bringing to it a whole bunch of preexisting attitudes about celebrity friendships and the policies of the Obama administration, along with the mental image of a script with "relatable!" and "humanizing!" scribbled in the margin.

That's why I said I'm trying not to overthink it - because overthinking it is clearly my natural instinct, and I do enjoy hearing Bruce's voice and his thoughts and stories.

it's definitely too important to Obama to be friends with celebrities. (i say as someone who used to love Obama and who learned not to love politicians from my intense disappointment with him during and after his presidency.)

he pled guilty to drinking in a closed area drunkenness on the edge of town

what is the closed area they speak of? a car?

the soul of a man who's seen it all, worked his fingers to the bone, and just can't catch a break

i would like the record to reflect that i was in the dumps with the mumps when along came those chumps with a little promise of some relief

You put him and Obama together, though, and Obama actually has a kind of similar vibe to me - that charming openness that goes only so far and no further, that glossy expertise in controlling the narrative and making it seem natural -

I just finished the new Cary Grant bio, in which the author reaches a similar conclusion and Grant himself acknowledged it when alive.

what is the closed area they speak of? a car?

― tobo73, Wednesday, February 24, 2021 11:28 AM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

he was in a park that was closed at night iirc?

A national park where there's no alcohol allowed.

Parkness on the edge of town

Even if we're just drinkin' in the park

If the story about fans ambushing Bruce so they could offer him tequila is true, then I guess he is, indeed, easily found.

xp to Alfred:
"Everyone wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant." - Cary Grant

"People see you onstage and, yeah, I'd want to be that guy. I want to be that guy myself very often." - Bruce Springsteen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzlPd_PZVCM

Free tequila, jump a little lighter
Free tequila, come sit by my fire

Okay, this one is good ^

Huh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8AClJsbO6o

Isn’t that great? WXRT used to play it with some regularity in the ‘80s.

I’ve heard of Stanley Clarke but I’m afraid I am unfamiliar with this gentleman.

That's actually a brilliant idea - one wonders if it was inspired by Grandmaster Flash. I wish it eased off on the echo and the gimmicky effects.

(The idea being a hip-hop cover, that is a Black perspective, of a massively popular rock song about Vietnam vets.)

I keep having to stifle the instinct to duck to avoid being hit by one of those sprung bass strings.

Better sounding version here, because we all deserve it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgGtViqj-ps

Kinda wish their prior album was called "Fuck Around".

A+ post

haha wow that's really something

This thread went from "Bruce is an alcoholic who betrayed an auto corporation" to "Bruce took a shot with fans and Ranger Dick pulled him over."

Definitely scuttled whatever controversy the Jeep ad engendered! It's a multiple win for Bruce. Jeep ad goes away, NJ police look foolish busting the Boss for stupid reasons, and reaffirms his man of the people status in a way that no car commercial could ever do. I hope he writes a silly song about it.

The Jeep ad is back, fwiw

This thread went from "Bruce is an alcoholic who betrayed an auto corporation" to "Bruce took a shot with fans and Ranger Dick pulled him over."

Yup, I fucked up. In my defense, Bruce admits to lots of drunk and reckless driving in his memoir, and how often do rich famous white guys get busted for stuff and turn out to be innocent? Still, I definitely overreacted. This came out on the same day as the Joss Whedon allegations, and I think I was just on a general anger kick.

I wish they'd used this as an excuse to suppress the Jeep ad forever.

Has anyone advanced the theory that is was all an elaborate ruse timed to coincide with the launch of the Spotify podcast (the way they do when pop stars get engaged or something right before an album drops)?

This thread went from "Bruce is an alcoholic who betrayed an auto corporation" to "Bruce took a shot with fans and Ranger Dick pulled him over."

biggest surprise twist itt this week is: i'm not sure anymore who does my favorite version of 'born in the usa'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzbl6n7Mqjo

The Jeep ad is back, fwiw

― stuck in the version layer (morrisp), Friday, February 26, 2021 10:00 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm hearing "the ad is back" to the tune of this ad (which Bruce was offered millions to do, and turned it down):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXrnDrGRNkk

sorry I'm still stuck on bruce springsteen and president barack obama hosting a podcast called "renegades"

its been a wild & rocky ride this last couple of weeks but i guess fair is fair and i am now heading out to lease a well equipped 2021 Jeep Cherokee 80th anniversary edition starting at only $199 a month no money down

xp Equally absurd that the first episode is called "Outsiders: an unlikely friendship." They are not outsiders, nor is their friendship unlikely.

I haven't listened to it, but the episode description references "growing up as outsiders." Is that not accurate in Bruce's case? Seems accurate for Obama.

Yeah, it is very much about growing up as outsiders, and in that sense it's accurate for both of them.

But they're both very much insiders now, so as much as it's meaningful to them to reflect on having been outsiders growing up, as a title I think it's a bit off. The "unlikely friendship" part of it also seems forced to me. They're two rich, famous, liberal Boomers who met on the campaign trail; it feels a bit manipulative to have them pitched to us like they're a horse and a puppy in a Budweiser ad.

I agree their friendship doesn't seem so unlikely on its face.

Eh, assuming they are actually friends and not just friendly, I'm not sure how many presidents are friends with huge rock stars. Besides besties Elvis and Nixon, of course.

i enjoyed the conversation so far

but i mean, this is cliched i know but it really is what it us” if it sounds like something you’d enjoy, you prob will. if it sounds like something you’d hate, likewise. it’s not going to convert anyone.

ugh - i meant - it really “is what it is”

Has anyone advanced the theory that is was all an elaborate ruse timed to coincide with the launch of the Spotify podcast (the way they do when pop stars get engaged or something right before an album drops)?

― stuck in the version layer (morrisp), Friday, February 26, 2021 9:36 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Lol at the idea of a podcast with Obama and Springsteen being lacking in promotion or awareness

^it's the same with a release by a major pop star! and yet ppl sometimes insist anything/everything in their private lives is some constructed event for PR purposes. (to be clear, that's what i'm clowning on, not the podcast)

ah sorry gotcha

waiting for the Trump/Marilyn Manson podcast

I'm enjoying the podcast tbh, I think I just feel the need to be snarky about the messaging because it works so well on me. Behind all my criticism beats a heart that reacts to all this blatant emotional manipulation with "Aww, Frog and Toad Are Friends!"

I think it would be much better received without the stupid & annoying promo language accompanying it

Like, PLEASE stop calling my hamburger “a bridge to a brighter tomorrow” and stop playing ‘Ebony and Ivory’ while i’m trying to eat it

Listening to the second ep of the podcast, where they start out by talking about Clarence. It’s interesting because I still think the whole thing feels much too comfortable and practiced, but there are these occasional moments where humanity breaks through.

Bruce has told the same stories about Clarence so many times, often in the exact same words you get here, and at times it seems like Obama is pushing for more from Bruce than he gets. He points out that Clarence couldn’t have a successful music career without allying himself to a younger, less experienced white man, and that’s an interesting perspective that Bruce doesn’t really respond to; he just goes into the same reflection we’ve heard before, about how lonely it was for Clarence as the only Black person in the band. But then there’s a moment when Obama just says, “You miss him,” and Bruce finally breaks from the script and starts searching for the right words, as if this is a question that deserves a real, unrehearsed answer. And what he comes up with is very simple, and sort of incoherent, and I find it very moving.

It was 45 years of your life you don’t… you know, you don’t… It’s never something that comes again.