Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

I can't get worked up and annoyed about Bruce in the way I can about some other rockers. He has an ear for a great line (the opening of "Hungry Heart" for instance) and I can forgive him a lot for that. He doesn't resonate with me and like the Replacements I think that's a cultural thing.

I also - and this is totally subjective - never get the impression Bruce ever thinks he's particularly cool. Which is not something I can say of most other 'real rock'n'roller' types, mainstream or otherwise.

File under yet to be discovered. I was listening to an apologetic defence of his work from Sean Rowley on the radio the other day, and it got me wondering again. People of my generation's first real exposure to him was the 'Born in the USA' air-punching era and that obviously wasn't likely to engender much interest. Yes, I know it was all ironic.

What I have heard of his 70's stuff sounds like I might grow to love it. That midwest blue-collar world his songs inhabit seems harder to relate to than any other, but even in 1988, I had the feeling Paddy McAloon was missing the point with the song 'Cars & Girls'.

At the moment, I'm afraid the song of his I like best is a 90s one - 'If I Should Fall Behind', which I only know from the Grant McLellan cover version.

Badly Drawn Boy is a Springsteen obsessive, which I thought was quite cute.

N.

And yes, Tom, he's got a very good ear for a line.

I heard the version of "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" when I was young and that is pretty spiff, I freely agree. Circa 1984, liking El Bruce was unsurprising for me as that was a pretty damn good radio year -- Chuck Eddy specifically called it as such in _Stairway to Hell_, and he was goddamn right. Thus liking all that stuff he made was a matter of course alongside all those singles from _Purple Rain_ and _Like A Virgin_ and etc.

Time went on and I proceeded to not care. I never cared enough to buy an album anyway, and the 'classic early singles' only made sense in my classic rock phase, which lasted about nine months in senior year.

Then I ended up in LA and encountered the first of Robert Hilburn's 345,234,843 printed sermons on How Bruce Springsteen Heals the Sick, Raises the Dead and Means More to Human Existence Than the Combined Efforts of Louis Pasteur, Billie Holiday and Charles Schulz. I encountered other blowhards. The music touched me with the impact of a dying flea. A roommate was obsessed with him to the point of near mania. I cried.

The end.

Frankly, the Walkabouts any day of the goddamn week, month, year, decade, century, etc. If the relative fame levels were reversed, I would cling to this assumption with even more deep, abiding passion because then I would have The People on my side. Even alone, though, it's comfy. And Frankie Goes to Hollywood's version of "Born to Run" is my fave.

i actually liked born_in_the_u.s.a when it came out at age 7, but later, i found it to be an obstacle in getting to love bruce, and i'm sure there are a ton of artists out there whose work at that time has kept people away from them.

as sterling said, it's funny what driving a car can do, especially when it's another dark and lonely night out on an empty anonymous new jersey highway and "born to run" comes on the highway. but i've been there, so i'll move on.

you can get by on the first five or so albums on the music and production alone -- unless of course you hate phil spector and are, therefore, destined to spend eternity in hell -- and the later stuff will stick if you find something in the lyrics that rings far too true. sure, he mines the same territory in a lot of his songs, but so do belle & sebastian and so did the smiths; except the kids in bruce's songs could kick the ass of their counterparts in the aforementioned.

ned, i think you have the same problem as tom: it's a cultural thing. ;)

It's not a cultural thing; I mean for god's sake Motorcycle Emptiness might as well be Bruce Springsteen on a literacy trip in terms of subject, and I know Tom likes the song, and I believe Ned does too. Whether that particular statement was tongue in cheek or not, it's a tired excuse and reasoning, one usually used by the saddest of Bruce Springsteen fans, the ones who "identify" with his sentiments, seemingly losing track of the fact that BRUCE'S CHARACTERS NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE IT OUT. Some positive role models to rock out to.

The thing is, I think it's the voice and the earnestness, which was already said. The stylistic values of it....the basic cultural and escape sentiments, lyrically, of Motorcycle Emptiness and Born to Run might be very similar in tone, but the style and vocalisings are entirely, 100% different. Bruce has a very sarcastic bent, a very dark bent, lyrically, but his style of music softens the blow and sometimes people just don't like it.

And those people are wrong, incidentally :P

Nebraska is half good but doesn't deserve the plaudits it gets as the Springsteen album it's cool to like.

The rest is pretty much DUD.

Nevermind that Born in the USA was my first record not meant to be played on the Fisher Price record player (with the STEEL NEEDLE)

Nevermind Tracks Nevermind the fact that Born to Run is one of the best driving albums ever when your top is down and it's summer and the road between Ventura and home stretches out and empty at night with no cops...

Nevermind he has out Dylan-ed Dylan

Nevermind that he can outrage The Man as he pushes the dark side of life. (41 Shots)

Nevermind the line "The record company Rosie, JUST GAVE ME A BIG ADVANCE!"

Nevermind the Live box set, reminding us just how powerful he was

Nevermind Time and Newsweek

Nevermind Thunder-Fucking-Road

Nevermind The cover of Jersey Girl

Nevermind Tracks

Nevermind the MTV Unplugged set where he scrapped the entire notion of an acoustic show and just plugged in and tore down the house

Nevermind everyone on this list who called him a dud.

well, Bruce isn't *that* bad! ;)

La Bruce just collectively calls to my mind a stunted bastard vision of music that presumes he was the sole carrier of the 'spirit of rock and roll truth' that the Beatles and Stones 'started' in the sixties. A CLAIM I HAVE ENCOUNTERED MORE THAN ONCE, though thankfully not here, and happily never from the man's own lips either, at least to my knowledge. Without that rhetoric I would just shrug and ignore him for somebody more interesting, but with it, frankly, he becomes a very very useful target to kick against. Perhaps only a straw man, but one I wouldn't mind seeing go up in flames.

The boy has fallen off of late, but... I'm reminded of the Bangs article where he describes how he dismissed this Maoist band as sounding like Bruce, and the band replied "oh, good, the working class like that stuff" or something of the sort, and I'm reading this thinking -- no. no. no. The correct answer is "oh, good. Bruce fucking rocks!"

What I appreciate about Bruce is how he can capture the majesty of a major chord. How so many of his songs have the same progression, but you don't realize it 'till you try to play 'em yourself. How he can take gospel music and write it to a girl instead. And yes, more of them damn anthems.

I mean.. I know that anthems aren't an alien concept to the UK -- after all, The Who were full of them. But maybe British anthems are a different type a "get off of my cloud" or "sod off" type, more cynical and pissy than dreamy and wide-eyed. Maybe this is, after all, because America is The Big Country, The Great Bitch, et cet. Maybe to get America you have to get just how there's always somewhere you might go, maybe.

Along these lines, "Not Fade Away" which is a novel by Jim Dodge is a great rock road story, sort of like the lighter side of Richard Hell's "Go Now" or the more earnest(?) side of Bruce McCullough's "Doors Fan" sketch (on his album, Shame-Based Man). Yes. Get that spirit of the open highway.

I will say, though, that I do lack a car and have never had one. That might serve as a better explanation. ;-)

I wish I wasn't misinterpreting.

Inspirational in some ways. I have often felt that England needed a Springsteen, albeit not just a a copycat 'rocker'; I mean, someone who would write about all the lost and found small-town lives. But to be fair, I suppose there is already a UK tradition here: the probably Jarvis Cocker is a case in point.

1. they don't understand that he's actually not as "pro-america" as they might think he is

2. they don't have as close a connection to "old school" code (which includes "old school" rock)

3. they are mostly college kids on their way up to some office job or whatever that is removed (if not far removed) from the "underworld" (the "blue collar" or "real" world) to get the lyrical sentiments

4. well, and...sometimes people just don't like something 'cause they just don't like it

I, however, do not apply to any of those 4. For I actually do "get" some of the appeal of Bruce (albeit, it took my until my mid or late twenties to get there). Sure, his overly sentimental (downright broadway or maudlin) look at the working class can be a bit (or a bunch) too much. And sure, his music can be too simple and/or too derivitive. But, that's a part of the whole. Familiarity in both music and lyrics, is a large part of the appeal of his stuff (and those like him, ala Mellencamp, etc). He just had the concept to put nearly a whole career on the working class/blue collar life like no other has (not in such a wide reaching broad sense, at least - other than Mellencamp, but Bruce did it a bit better and first).

Classics:

Having said all that, 'Nebraska' and 'Ghost of Tom Joad' are the only two full albums that I would declare anywhere near a "classic" state of existence (with 'Nebraska' being the one clear-cut vote). Many of the rest of his 70's and 80's albums have some good solid worthy singles on them, but. I can't go so far as to get 'The River' (for example) anywhere near a "classic" nod. That one, in particular, I find to be overrated (though still having the wonderful track "Stolen Car" and the title track deserving of 'Nebraska'-like attention).

Anyways, I forgot to mention to huge (to the point of shadowing) element as to one of the why's (or why not's) of enjoy/appreciating Bruce. Which is: DRIVING. Cars and driving is such a central and/or reoccuring figure/subject in his work that...I can't believe I forgot to touch upon that (only after reading some of the others posts, darn it). But yea, I do LOVE to drive. Which also helps to explain the appeal of Springsteen (to me, at least).

*By the way, I do own that McCulloch album 'Shame Based Man' and...love it (some really funny stuff and one of the very rare comedy albums worthy of many plays - if not it's own discussion here on "I Love Music"...anyone?). Every single one of my girlfriends (one present, others past) hated it. "And if (after torching the stolen car) you can still hear the Doors playing...then you have become...a DOORS...FAN!" I'm not a Doors fan, however.

I hadn't listened to this record in a couple of years, but god, it still sounded great. Actually, I kept getting shivers down my spine when it was playing and it had me close to tears a few times (mostly on "Thunder Road" and "Backstreets.") Listening to this today finally settled an ILM debate for me: Music can never affect me quite as much now as it did when I was a teenager. No record I've heard in the last few years, including Loveless, has had as much affect on me as Born to Run did this morning, and I know it's not just because Born to Run is such a great album. This is a record that got to me when I was young and emotionally vulnerable in a way that I'm not anymore, at the age of 32. I still feel music very deeply and appreciate and enjoy a wider range of music than ever, but music doesn’t completely overpower me the way it did when I was 15. Oh well.

Springsteen is still a big classic, by the way, despite all the incredibly corny lines on Born to Run.

"candy's room" is the grebtest song ever written about being in love w. a prostitute when you sound a bit like david bowie

Is this a new genre? Cos that'd be fucking incredible.

I still love Bruce Springsteen. Put on Rosalita and you will see me go insane.

Is the war here the Vietnam War?

I was thinking the other day: as a big lover of the Boss, I'm not convinced that his melodies are often great.

I tried to think of good Boss melodies. I thought:

1: The River
2: My Hometown
3: There Goes My Miracle (The novelty of including a late / recent song in the pantheon!)

But actually, I think the keyboard part of 'Born in the USA', and the melody working against it, are as melodically memorable as anything he's done. (And would have been lost if he'd just stuck to the NEBRASKA version?)

Bearing in mind that I know nothing about music and wouldn't know a melody from a hole in the ground, I think I agree with you about his melodies often being lacking, or maybe he just loses some of his interest in melody around Born in the USA? "Thunder Road" has some lovely melodies jostling around in it, "Incident on 57th St" ditto, and I suppose "Independence Day" has a strong enough melody for Jakob Dylan to rip off for "One Headlight."

A lot of his songs that aren't obviously variations on each other have similar melodies: "Western Stars," "Letter to You" and "Land of Hope and Dreams" are all pretty close to one another, for instance. There's a video somewhere of him playing "Linda Will You Let Me Be The One" and "I Wanna Marry You" back-to-back and then realizing as he's doing it that they're actually the same song. "Janey Don't You Lose Heart" and "Dancing in the Dark" also seem like maybe they share a common ancestor, but I'm not as sure about that one.

But then Bruce also has a lot of songs where I wouldn't think there was enough of a melody to work with but he manages to sing them and make them sound good. I was just thinking about "Backstreets" and how cool it is that the verses are pretty much in Hiawatha meter, barely singable, more a chant than a song, and then it suddenly lifts off into the chorus.

Or "She's the One," which is also kind of a simple repetitive thing which somehow never fails to end up epic and awesome.

I also think it is super cool how minimalist and repetitive the chorus of "I'm Goin' Down" is:

I'm goin' down, down, down, down
I'm goin' down, down, down, down
I'm goin' down, down, down down
I'm goin' down, down, down, down

The same word sixteen times, and almost always on the exact same note; you'd think it would be boring, like how the hell is that a chorus? But instead I find myself waiting for that eleventh "down" to come along and break the monotony, and every time it comes there's more of a reward, until finally he starts breaking up the whole damn thing with nonsense syllables and it brings such a sense of freedom with it, like he's created this 4x4 grid of chorus just to scribble all over it.

That’s funny, I was just about to remark how I feel like a lot of his melodies sort of work alongside the lyrics, to thematize them – the tightness and constraint of “I’m on Fire” or “Tunnel of Love”; the repetition of “Workin’ on the Highway”; the tension of “The Rising”; etc.

It helps that he’s often singing about people with constrained lives, trying to break free…a small melodic gesture breaking a repetitive melody, as Lily describes, can go a long way.

Another little vocal moment I think is super cool: in "Wild Billy's Circus Story," when he sings

Oh, and a press roll drummer go, ballerina to-and-fro
Cartwheeling up on that tightrope

He hits the word "cartwheeling" with such sudden and unexpected force that it sounds like he's throwing all his strength behind it, and it's always struck me as the perfect vocal impression of a gymnast launching themselves into a skill. Like, lots of people can show you the grace or the daring or w/ever of a circus act; Springsteen makes you feel how much physical effort goes into it.

He just wants to hear some rhythm

I have to hand it to poster Lily Dale for that hyper-formalist analysis of 'I'm Going Down'. I didn't think anyone could make that chorus so interesting!

I've just thought of a rare great Boss melody:

SAD EYES.

Relevantly, it's a fairly uncharacteristic song in sounding like some kind of ... relatively "glossy MOR pop-rock"? I have loved it since TRACKS came out and I suppose the tune is a big part of that.

I could be misremembering, but I could have sworn that "I'm Going Down" is one of the few songs that Springsteen himself has sort of dismissed. Maybe because it's so repetitive? Looks like he's played it only 47 times since the 1999 E Street reunion, which is not that much, for a single! I dunno, I think it's a fun song, with, like the best "fun" Springsteen songs, just enough of a current of darkness to give it a surprisingly cutting edge.

"Sad Eyes" is a lovely song. If you want full MOR, Enrique Iglesias actually recorded it and released it as a single, replete with sexy video!

Yeah, Springsteen doesn't seem to think much of it but he is WRONG, it is GREAT! I don't think he understands what he did with that chorus, though, because when he plays it live he usually introduces more variation into it right away instead of making us wait for it.

There is also some awesome controlled repetition in the verses:

I used to drive you to work in the morning
Friday night I'd drive you all around
You used to love to drive me wild
But lately girl you get your kicks from just driving me down

Ok yes it is Bruce Springsteen singing the word "drive" four times in a row, but look what he does with it! He gives the meaning a twist halfway through the verse; we go from literal to figurative and from him driving her to her driving him. And every time he sings the word it comes a little later in the line, until with the last line, when we know the word is coming, he breaks the meter, draws out the line and makes us wait for it.

Darkness album release was 43 years ago today ( i heard someone say on radio)

More great close reading from poster Lily Dale.

Get one Candy’s Room!

Lily Dale is definitely bringing it

I guess I wasn't expecting this:

Bruce Springsteen will return to Broadway this summer for a limited run of Springsteen on Broadway performances at Jujamcyn's St. James Theatre. Shows begin Saturday June 26, with additional performances taking place through September 4.

I wonder if he will change anything? I also wonder if, being several years older, he will be any changed? It's been 3 years, more or less, right?

(FWIW, "Audience members will be required to provide proof of full COVID-19 vaccination in order to enter the theater.")

Just saw that! I have been wondering the same thing (will he change anything, I mean). I would imagine he'd at least talk about the past year and a half. Not that there's much point in my speculating, because I do not have the budget for Springsteen on Broadway tickets plus a flight across the country.

At minimum he'll need to make an update or two (specifically the references to the dumpster fire that was the Trump administration), but it'll be interesting to see if he swaps out any songs, etc.

I mean, when I saw it he didn't even mention his kids or family, which I thought was weird for a show that focused so much on his own childhood and his parents and family.

Maybe, but I thought the section on him and Patti was enough.

I would be surprised if he didn't include one of the mourning-lost-friends songs from Letter To You.

xp There's a lot he didn't include from his memoir. A good chunk of the book is a depression memoir, but that doesn't really come into the show iirc, at least not explicitly.

Forgot, there's also his Dad's visit right after his kid's birth, and how that definitively headed off whatever troubles that would have been passed down.

(I should clarify, I meant that was in the show too.)

When you put it that way it does sound silly, but I can see how if you had fears of carrying on a cycle of abuse, that sort of gesture could be very reassuring.

That bit in the show always reminds me intensely of a not-very-good Kipling poem called "The Rabbi's Song," but for everyone's sake I will refrain from quoting it.

Yeah, I actually hesitated to put it that way because it really does make it sound silly and pretentious - it definitely does not play that way when you see the show. But ultimately I just wanted to identify that specific scene in the easiest, most direct way.

I don't think there's anything wrong with putting it that way - it highlights something that comes through for me in a lot of Bruce's stories about his dad, which is how very hard he's trying to get something positive out of this, because not forgiving his dad is just not an option.

The story in the book about his dad taking him on a janky fishing trip in a little boat in the middle of the ocean at the height of Bruce's fame was a good one.

i love that story <3

Yes.

He has the whole of WESTERN STARS to draw on now - one of his best LPs.

Back to my question about the Boss and melody, I kept coming back to thinking that the WESTERN STARS melodies were among the best. Which fits with my general admiration for that record and sense of how crafted it is. He seems to have artfully worked on the tunes in a way not evident on LETTER TO YOU.

if thats how you feel about it sure, but those two albums are coming from very different places & the crafting of Western Stars was trying to fit with a tradition of melody vs Letter To You going for more early days E Streetness

They are -- that's why I feel so different about the two!

But is LETTER TO YOU really like *early* E Street? I feel that the early (say first 3) records are more musically diverse, ambitious, unpredictable, not very Rock on the whole, and LETTER TO YOU is more straight modern rock like, say, THE RISING ... with some exceptions of tone like 'If I was the priest' where the dense lyrics do recall an early Bruce.

I feel that the early (say first 3) records are more musically diverse, ambitious, unpredictable

Landau gets a lot of blame for that: soon after he appeared on the scene, no more “Rosalita”s or “Jungleland”s.

Bruce has consciously embraced or returned to various Bruce-isms over the years. For example, "Mary's Place" from "The Rising" was hailed/received has a return to form, not in the "he's finally good again" sense but in the sense that it consciously recalled some of his early rave-ups (albeit with its personality somewhat squished and steamrolled in the studio). He's done it a few times since, too, where he brings back some of the hallmarks of prime Bruce. "Letter to You" (the album) perhaps does it more and more consistently than most of his later output. Iirc he actually told Roy and Charlie (who replaced Danny) to play more "E Street" kinda stuff, and it's those elements - glockenspiel, the pounding Bittan girl group piano nods - that most blatantly signify "Springsteen" as much as anything else, in his music and in that of others (Arcade Fire, The Killers, etc. ). Though of course there are lots of acts that recall the spirit of Springsteen as much as the sound, in his vocals or lyrics or other references (Gaslight Anthem, Hold Steady, the National, etc.). Springsteen himself has seemed kind of mired in studio mush for too long, searching for perfection in music that does not demand it or really even benefit from it, which could be why something like "Western Skies" (which I admittedly found underwhelming) and "Letter to You" (which I really like) were received so well, as both were more or less recorded live, or at least the latter was.

As is my wont, I asked my guitar teacher at my last lesson about Springsteen (he's a fan) and melodies. He admitted it's nothing he'd ever really thought of, but broke down a few songs, playing the melody on guitar, and yeah, there's not often a lot of real movement, though there are hooks and whatnot throughout. He brought up in response a band like the Eagles (he is not a fan) and showed how a lot of their songs kind of sit in place melodically, too - Hotel California, Life in the Fast Lane - which actually makes them weirdly tough to sing if you don't have the right voice for it. It did get me thinking that this is all something I've never, well, thought about that much, because just sticking with someone like Don Henley, a lot of his songs (that I know) do kind of hover around the same melodic range, with a couple of big exceptions (Desperado, the chorus of Boys of Summer or Heart of the Matter).

Don't really know why I'm talking about Don Henley or the Eagles, sorry! Waiting for my coffee to kick in.

I suppose it is telling that a lot of the stuff that sounds like Bruce does in fact recall *Bruce* and not the stuff Bruce himself was referencing. For example, the beginning of Mellencamp's "I Need A Lover." It doesn't sound like girl groups or Dylan or Duane Eddy or whatever, it sounds like .... "Jungleland."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adMXjSithMs

Or "Tunnel of Love" by Dire Straits. Yeah, that's Bittan on the piano, and it's all it really takes to recall Bruce:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAirINwjaxE

And then there's this, possibly the most Bruce of all non-Bruce songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgIsyoxZ7Uw

Again, it comes down to the "She's the One" piano a lot, but this one also has sax and slap-backy vocals and guitar that make me think of Bruce specifically, and not just "'50s rock and roll" or whatever.

Don't really know why I'm talking about Don Henley or the Eagles, sorry! Waiting for my coffee to kick in.

DON: Springsteen's arrival in LA back in '75 was a real Sea Change. We caught him at the Whiskey--checking out the competition as it where. He was impressive, perhaps the final push we needed to go full epic 'Hollywood' in our own songwriting: making movies in our songs the studios were too scared to touch.

GLENN: We were down with that 'New Kid In Town' as long as he got us up close and personal with Mary, Wendy, Candy, and Rosalita!

DON: Well, yeah.

"i know a pretty little place in southern california down san diego way / there's a little cafe where they play guitars all night and all day / you can check out any time you like..."

Dire Straits' 'Tunnel of Love' is Bruce-like as well as sharing a name with a later even greater Bruce song? I hadn't really thought that.

For example, "Mary's Place" from "The Rising" was hailed/received as a return to form

You CANNOT BE SERIOUS. That's practically his worst track of the 21st century. I can even remember it being actively badly received at the time!

That album has a few contenders.

xpost I specifically said was hailed/received as a return to form ****not in the "he's finally good again" sense but in the sense that it consciously recalled some of his early rave-ups."**** That is, the song is six minutes long and features lots of different parts. Live it would often top 10 minutes. I never liked it myself.

I do know one critic who singled out "Mary's Place" as one of only two highlights from that album...Jim DeRogatis.

In a brand new interview Bruce revealed he is working with Brandon from the Killers on a track, and sings on a few songs on Mellencamp's upcoming album. Also that they have been working on numerous things from the vault, or at least more the one project.

The Killers track is OK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3BZ8hnLyRc

I am curious about the upcoming 2022 Bruce tour. I last time I saw him with the band a couple of times, on The River Redux tour, was the first time I noticed his voice struggling at all. And that was, incredibly, five years ago. I saw him on Broadway after that, but that was more mumbly speak-sing most of the time, no barnstormers. Now, he sounds pretty good on "Letter to You," but I wonder if he can handle a three hour show, or how he might fare doing some of his tougher (but impossible to skip) songs every night. Of course, I know better than to doubt the Boss, but everyone gets old, and he more than most of his peers seems to recognize he's in a different stage in his life.

BTW, went on a road trip with my daughter the other day, and she let me blast the whole "Born to Run" album for that stretch. Even better, she seemed to enjoy it.

He should skip some "impossible to skip" songs if necessary. He has enough other ones to play.