Nice to see Rote Kapelle get an honourable mention upthread.
― Soukesian (Soukesian), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 17:54 (seventeen years ago) link
ihttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.hopper1/Stumpress/MMmarch86.jpg
― everything (everything), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― Soukesian (Soukesian), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― everything (everything), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― everything (everything), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ice Cream Electric (Ice Cream Electric), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― xhuxk (xheddy), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:39 (seventeen years ago) link
Well it sure helps me a lot! I remember reading about Stitched Back Foot Airman but never would have guessed there was any connection between them. Very interesting.
I agree with Reynolds' assessment as well, actually and I think it goes right back to the comment upthread that "a little goes a long way" with this stuff. It's awfully fun to reminisce about it now and be nostalgic, at least it is for me, but at the same time I think it's making me have rose coloured glasses about what might happen if I tried to rediscover this stuff. I bought the A Witness album at the time and really couldn't get into it, all the songs sounded the same. I tend to think if I was meant to love Big Flame or Bogshed it would have happened by now. But I've got too curious not to try again and I'm certainly interested in hearing bands like Rote Kapelle who I only read about at the time.
― White Dopes on Punk (Bimble...), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 04:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― White Dopes on Punk (Bimble...), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 04:33 (seventeen years ago) link
This was a very youthful scene - an advance from the popular alternative bands of the day who mostly had a link with punk and seemed fucking ancient to the 17 year old me (Smiths, Cure, Fall, Pogues Sisters of Mercy, Depeche Mode, 4AD, Mute, Julian Cope, Rough Trade bands etc).
I was precocious enough to be sent to university in Glasgow in 1984 when I was just 16 and the clubs that were hosting these guys (plus the Creation bands and their ilk) were the only ones I could get into easily without ID. Everyone was under 20, including the bands so no-one remembered punk, except as some vague media thing that happened when we were children. This was our punk. The Fire Engines and the Birthday Party had been the Stooges and the Velvets, Edwyn Collins was our Bowie, and Big Flame were our Clash - agressive, political, arty and inspirational.
Silly dances were invented and forgotten the same night, horrible smelly clothing was worn, booze got drunk, everyone threw themselves around, behaved obnoxiously and had a great time. It was 10 times more fun than the gigs that the concurrent C86 jangly bands were doing, which were universally dire (bar the Bellshill bands who knew at least how to entertain).
They were building a scene not creating a legacy, so the fanzines were amateurish, some of the records were crap, it was sad when it started to die and hardly anyone remembers any more. This doesn't bother me at all - I rarely listened to even the good records post-88 and I don't expect the true history of such things to be told with a list of "good" recordings and a critical consensus filtered via 20 years of hindsight.
I'm at least glad my experiences aren't being endlessly catalogued and retold back to me through the likes of the Guardian Music Magazine, this week featuring three separate articles which reminisced at some point about the "importance" of the poor old Sex Pistols. The idea of Bob Stanley "curating" a C86 exhibit at the ICA makes my stomach churn. The only thing the one-time Bogshed fan need fear is if the likes of Simon Reynolds decides to write a book about them, but hopefully they are safe from that fate. I think he was a B-boy soul-survivor at the time. Easy enough to check though - just ask the mentalists over on the Reynolds thread.
― everything (everything), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 06:04 (seventeen years ago) link
I should put some more video up somewhere, too; I have a lovely 10-song set by A Witness in Paris in late '86, some Jackdaw With Crowbar promos, Big Flame in Glasgow & Bedford, Shrubs and Mackenzies here and there... the only thing I'm really missing - and I would climb flagpoles to get it - is any Bogshed footage. I never saw them play, tragically.
Oh, Stitch were amazing. The Keatons played with them loads in 1989 / 1990 - they wrote some stunning tunes. I should put more of their stuff up on Multiply - 7 Egg Timing Greats in particular was lovely.
And I saw The Noseflutes play in front of about 8 goths in a pub in Stoke Newington in 1989. The singer read his lyrics off a music stand. He now writes for The Independent, ha.
http://www.noseflutes.com/
― Rhodri (rhodri), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 06:44 (seventeen years ago) link
Rhodri, we met a couple of times back in the day - we met when the Keatons staged a show in Kilmarnock and later stayed at Steve Keaton's place when Devo did those London gigs. Long time ago.
― everything (everything), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 08:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― stirmonster (stirmonster), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 08:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― sleeve (sleeve), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 09:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 09:23 (seventeen years ago) link
We were playing with Dawson and Pregnant Neck on a, er, rotating headliner. It was Pregnant Neck's turn that night, poor bastards.
― Rhodri (rhodri), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 10:20 (seventeen years ago) link
Hmmmm...Both Husker Du and Meat Puppets were past their peak by 1986. By then, Bogshed and the Membranes etc were more interesting for sure. (I never connected with Stump, by the way, assuming I ever actually heard them. I think I always confused them with the Shrubs.)
― xhuxk (xhuck), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:19 (seventeen years ago) link
Wingco and Oldfield were the Monitor chaps with the real leftfield tastes.
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:07 (seventeen years ago) link
Back to Simon, the mid-eighties and the weekly music rags. Wasn't that the time of the infamous NME hip-hop wars with certain writers pushing hip-hop and go-go music as the next big thing while other writers pledged allegiance to mop topped boys with guitars? As a yank it never made any sense to me why there was this musical schism. It certainly wasn’t that way in the early eighties. Just contrast the difference between C81 and C86. C81 had the usual indie suspects, but also had slinky funk from Linx, jazz from James Blood Ulmer, and Furious Pig. C86 had the Byrds/Velvets axis, the Ron Johnson crew and nothing else. C86 is a musical runt when compared to its predecessor.
― Ice Cream Electric (Ice Cream Electric), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ice Cream Electric (Ice Cream Electric), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― xhuxk (xhuck), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:50 (seventeen years ago) link
Side one
1. "The "Sweetest Girl"" – Scritti Politti (6:09) 2. "Twist and Crawl Dub" – The Beat (4:58) 3. "Misery Goats" – Pere Ubu (2:26) 4. "7,000 Names of Wah!" – Wah! Heat (3:57) 5. "Blue Boy" – Orange Juice (2:52) 6. "Raising the Count" – Cabaret Voltaire (3:32) 7. "Kebab Traume (Live)" – D.A.F (3:50) 8. "Bare Pork" – Furious Pig (1:28) 9. "Raquel" – The Specials (1:56) 10. "I Look Alone" – Buzzcocks (3:00) 11. "Fanfare in the Garden" – Essential Logic (3:00) 12. "Born Again Cretin" – Robert Wyatt (3:07)
Side two
1. "Shouting Out Loud" – The Raincoats (3:19) 2. "Endless Soul" – Josef K (2:27) 3. "Low Profile" – The Blue Orchids (3:47) 4. "Red Nettle" – Virgin Prunes (2:13) 5. "We Could Send Letters" – Aztec Camera (4:57) 6. "Milkmaid" – Red Crayola (2:01) 7. "Don't Get in My Way" – Linx (5:15) 8. "The Day My Pad Went Mad" – The Massed Carnaby St John Cooper Clarkes (1:46) 9. "Jazz Is the Teacher, Funk Is the Preacher" – James Blood Ulmer (4:03) 10. "Close to Home" – Ian Dury (4:13) 11. "Greener Grass" – Gist (2:32) 12. "Parallel Lines" – Subway Sect (2:38) 13. "81 Minutes" – John Cooper Clarke (0:13)
And for C86:
1. Primal Scream - Velocity Girl 2. The Mighty Lemon Drops - Happy Head 3. The Soup Dragons - Pleasantly Surprised 4. The Wolfhounds - Feeling So Strange Again 5. The Bodines - Therese 6. Mighty Mighty - Law 7. Stump - Buffalo 8. Bogshed - Run To The Temple 9. A Witness - Sharpened Sticks 10. The Pastels - Breaking Lines 11. Age of Chance - From Now On, This Will Be Your God
1. The Shop Assistants - It's Up To You 2. Close Lobsters - Firestation Towers 3. Miaow - Sport Most Royal 4. Half Man Half Biscuit - I Hate Nerys Hughes ( From The Heart ) 5. The Servants - Transparent 6. The Mackenzies - Big Jim (There's no pubs in Heaven) 7. bIG fLAME - New Way (Quick Wash And Brush Up With Liberation Theology) 8. Fuzzbox - Console Me 9. McCarthy - Celestial City 10. The Shrubs - Bullfighter's Bones 11. The Wedding Present - This Boy Can Wait
― Ice Cream Electric (Ice Cream Electric), Thursday, 25 January 2007 01:13 (seventeen years ago) link
Here are a couple of links:
Indie pop and Rockism
Taking Sides : C81 vs C86
Happy days. Slightly embarrassing happy days.
― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 25 January 2007 10:17 (seventeen years ago) link
Even generously shoehorning the likes of Mighty Mighty and the Close Lobsters into the former category, your still left with Half Man Half Biscuit, Fuzzbox, McCarthy, Age of Chance, Miaow, Shop Assistants, Soup Dragons, Wedding Present adn the Wolfhounds who have no relationship to either.
― everything (everything), Thursday, 25 January 2007 17:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rhodri (rhodri), Thursday, 25 January 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C86_%28music%29
― White Dopes on Punk (Bimble...), Thursday, 25 January 2007 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Booper Soul (Bimble...), Friday, 9 February 2007 21:18 (seventeen years ago) link
Did this sort of thing really well. Great Lyrics, too:
"I hear backstairs destitution,Should I walk on?Should I listen?"
v. similar to Mekons circa "Kill".
― Phil Knight (PhilK), Friday, 9 February 2007 23:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rhodri, Thursday, 22 February 2007 17:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― a passing spacecadet, Friday, 23 February 2007 02:25 (seventeen years ago) link
Well I don't think this is the thread I was really looking for, but it will do, I was pretty desperate trying to find the one I was thinking of that compared all these late 80's Brit indie bands to Beefheart. Can anyone please find the thread I'm thinking of?
The reason I'm here is look, does anyone remember this band called Slab! ?
I didn't get to hear them until now and I think "People Pie" is fab though I'm not sure how much I'll dig the album it's from. "Mars on Ice" was pretty good, though.
― Bimble, Monday, 17 September 2007 05:13 (sixteen years ago) link
You know what I mean it's the thread where we talked about those late 80's Brit Indie bands. Damnit. You know the ones I mean. Stump were mentioned, and Stitched Back Foot Airman and you know the ones I mean.
― Bimble, Monday, 17 September 2007 05:14 (sixteen years ago) link
MacKenzies, Big Flame. Was it a Big Flame thread?
― Bimble, Monday, 17 September 2007 05:15 (sixteen years ago) link
Well fuck me, it probably is this thread anyway.
― Bimble, Monday, 17 September 2007 05:17 (sixteen years ago) link
bogshed is probably the best band that has ever existed. i'll give 'em a spin. now.
― andi, Monday, 17 September 2007 05:19 (sixteen years ago) link
sorry. i just checked. don't think i know anything about slab.
― andi, Monday, 17 September 2007 05:22 (sixteen years ago) link
Damnit it's only 6:30 am in Britain I think. See how I'm always doomed with these time zones?
― Bimble, Monday, 17 September 2007 05:28 (sixteen years ago) link
I remember Slab! They sound like their name, right? Kinda monolithic de-funked indie-funk? I liked them in 1986, as I recall.
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 17 September 2007 08:24 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah Slab! were a noisy indie-funk thing, repetitive bass stuff with a bit of gtr scree over the top. Sort of like Swans-lite trying to make dance music. Actually I saw them once with That Petrol Emotion... and VOTB IIRC!
― NickB, Monday, 17 September 2007 09:09 (sixteen years ago) link
Thanks guys! It's great to know people remember them.
― Bimble, Monday, 17 September 2007 20:43 (sixteen years ago) link
So, looks like Simon Reynolds has started writing nostalgically about the Bogshed/Big Flame/Pigbros/ Membranes/Nightingales era (whatever it was called):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/feb/13/mid-1980s-revival
http://blissout.blogspot.com/2009/02/heres-my-second-blogpost-for-guardian.html
And I guess this is him writing back in 1985 about it:
http://bringthenoisesimonreynolds.blogspot.com/2007/07/btn-deleted-scene-1-funks-fictional.html
― xhuxk, Thursday, 19 February 2009 05:12 (fifteen years ago) link
(Actually, nah, now that I actually look at it, that 1985 piece is about other stuff. Don't think I every heard Chakk.)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 19 February 2009 05:19 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Death-Trad-Rock-John-Robb/dp/1901447367/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246826560&sr=1-10
In the 1980s, the charts overflowed with what felt to many like the most boring pop music ever made - and the underground exploded. The post-punk scene was a diverse collection of bands brought together by independent releases and aided by reportage in fanzines and airplay by John Peel. This is the first time this era of music has been analysed in such depth, exploring the loose confederation of noisenik outfits including Three Johns, The Membranes, The Ex, Wedding Present, A Witness, Bogshed and Big Flame.
Pretty interested in this but John Robb is going to write it in the style of John Robb and that will make it less good
― Real Men Play On Words (DJ Mencap), Monday, 6 July 2009 07:10 (fourteen years ago) link
what felt to many like the most boring pop music ever made
He lost me there.
Wd love to read a good book about those bands tho.
― Big Babby JeezHOOS (Noodle Vague), Monday, 6 July 2009 07:24 (fourteen years ago) link
This was a great thread since it made me go back and listen to C86 again. I think my previous posts were much too dismissive. Some of the bands on c86, as everything stated, had nothing to do with the Byrds/Velvets floppy fringe conspiracy or the Beefheart crunch of some of the Ron Johnson bands. The Wolfhounds, for example, where garage band refugees who found a home with Sonic Youth style skree and stutter. Not to mention the lead singer, Dave Callahan, was one bitter guy who knew his way around a lyric. He later went on to found Moonshake who are an entirely different can of worms. Nobody seems to remember the Wolfhounds which is a damn shame. As a side note, I just recently tracked down a live show from Big Flame which is far better than any of their official releases.
A book would be interesting, but may be very difficult to write given the scattered nature of this scene. Most of the bands were quite local and only released a small amount of product. If everything or Rhodri ever to reply to this thread they could sort this out since they were there and involved with the scene. Me, I'm just a yank who bought weird noisy records.
― sandcat dune buggy attack squad!! (leavethecapital), Monday, 6 July 2009 22:24 (fourteen years ago) link
The records generally don't give more than a flavour of how intense these bands were live. I saw the Three Johns, The Membranes, Bogshed and Big Flame over the mid 80's and they were incredible live acts. The Johns and the Membranes in particular toured incessantly, and you always came away from gigs with a bundle of fanzines. I think there was actually a very strong fan network, the more so because this stuff went so much against the vein. John Robb was right in the middle of it all, which makes him well placed to write about it.
As for the charts, I realise that this is ILM, but it certainly felt like the most boring pop music ever made to a lot of us at the time.
― Soukesian, Tuesday, 7 July 2009 08:06 (fourteen years ago) link
An excerpt from John Robb's book which touches on many of the things said on this thread.
― everything, Monday, 23 November 2009 23:27 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm looking forward to reading this book - hopefully there are some good interviews in it. I'm more than happy with John Robb as the writer of this book. I can't really think of anyone who's better qualified actually, let alone anyone who would even bother. His writing has absolutely none of the depreciation that some other UK music commentators his age indulge in, especially when they are discussing non-canonical/critically maligned music. This music was very self-confident and positive and so is Robb's writing.
One thing he talks about there is the influence of the Stranglers' bass guitar which I have never really considered but it makes some sense, eg. Let Them Eat Bogshed.
― everything, Monday, 23 November 2009 23:56 (fourteen years ago) link
Yes, Burnell's bass playing is an interesting connection. I read somewhere that the Cravats were formed after seeing the Stranglers - puzzled me at the time, as they seemed poles apart, but Shend's bass is very much upfront in their sound. (And, for me, the Cravats and the Very Things were very much the weird elder brothers of the scene Robb is writing about.)
― Soukesian, Tuesday, 24 November 2009 20:28 (fourteen years ago) link