Verlaine was a private school kid, i.e. like many rockers, he already had some money.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:34 (two years ago) link
Just a guess...but probably not far from truth. How do you think so many of those indie rock bands afforded to put out boodles of 7"s when they were like 19-21.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:36 (two years ago) link
https://networthpost.org/net-worth/tom-verlaine-net-worth/
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:37 (two years ago) link
Yeah, he went to prep school - but also ran away from it and changed his name; do we know that he was still living off family money in adulthood?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:47 (two years ago) link
verlaine heatedly talked the producer out of a big drum sound and lloyd added all that double-tracking
Interesting. When Johns died, DeRogatis claimed the opposite during a memoriam on his WBEZ Sound Opinions show. His claim was that Johns recorded without the big drum sound, and then when the band complained in detail, he immediately "got it" and did for them what he did for John Bonham on Led Zeppelin's records. Personally it sounds like he split the difference on the final result - it's probably a bigger drum sound than what I'm used to on punk records from that era (thinking of when the drums kick off the last verse in "Marquee Moon") but it's not what you'd hear on John Bonham's kit.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:19 (two years ago) link
Old, but in 1993:
"I would do one in a minute," says Verlaine of another Television album, but he doesn't sound concerned; he already makes what he calls "a decent living" from royalties, mostly publishing rights on his own and Television's recordings, although "when Bowie covered a song that helped a lot, actually." (Bowie recorded "Kingdom Come," from Verlaine's first solo album, on his "Scary Monsters," which was recently rereleased.) A few more checks should come in with the reissue of "Dreamtime," "Words From the Front" and "Cover," the three Verlaine albums originally on Warner Bros. in the United States; that deal may also lead to the American debut of "The Wonder," the 1990 album that never got released here because, Verlaine claims, his U.K. label never informed his U.S. one that the disc was finished.
Verlaine lived in Britain in the mid-'80s, and although he and Television are more popular over there -- the band's first post-reunion gigs were in Europe -- the singer/songwriter soon soured on the British music business. "Everything had to sound like what was on the radio that week," he remembers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1993/02/26/tom-verlaines-re-visions/2feaf2ba-8fb7-4b2a-b911-03fb156ecd93/
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:23 (two years ago) link
i gave the book back to my brother so i can't double-check, but from what i recall he said that andy johns spent a week setting up the drum sound before they even arrived at the studio. then when verlaine heard it he spent all night yelling at andy johns to get rid of it.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:47 (two years ago) link
My post revive inspired by a terrific Musician interview from fall '92. The four members were interviewed.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:48 (two years ago) link
Those stories about Johns are here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.uncut.co.uk/features/the-story-of-television-by-richard-lloyd-71368/4/%3famp
Tbh, I always imagined Lloyd was embellishing them a little.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:52 (two years ago) link
Musician interview from fall '92
I am really bummed Musician is not really available online. Was a great source of info back in the day
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:56 (two years ago) link
Yeah, I'll take Lloyd's word over DeRogatis on this one. There's just too much detail in there for Lloyd to get it wrong (the drum sound part at least), and there's no reason why he'd lie or make it up.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 15:38 (two years ago) link
― a (waterface),
You can find copies on eBay cheap!
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 15:41 (two years ago) link
Well, the stories are pretty flattering to Lloyd and also position the band in opposition to this out-of-touch decadent rocker but I'm sure they're at most exaggerations of the truth.xp
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 15:45 (two years ago) link
Putting on the CD of Marquee Moon, it really does sound beautifully clean and the double-tracked guitars are standing out. I see what you mean about John's splitting the difference, bird.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:03 (two years ago) link
*Johns
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:04 (two years ago) link
Taking a week to setup drum sounds seems like lunacy anyway. People used to be so crazy.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:16 (two years ago) link
Wait, Lloyd said Johns did it in a night. If anything, he repeatedly describes Johns as a bit lazy rather than obsessively meticulous.
The first day in the studio came in November 1976. We had a 2pm start. Andy was nowhere in sight. Finally, about 4.30pm, he came traipsing in. He said, “I came in yesterday, to see what the place was like, and… I can’t work here!” He started listing all the technical tools these old studios didn’t have. We tried to calm him down. Finally, grudgingly, Andy said, “Well, I did manage to set the drums up last night. Got a good sound. Wanna hear it?”He put on this tape he’d made. And, by God, from the speakers came this humongous, pumped-up John Bonham drum sound. Tom started freaking out. “No! No, no, no, no, no! We don’t want that! You need to take that apart!”Andy was outraged. “Well, why did you hire me? That’s what I’m famous for. Fuck this! I’m getting a flight back!”
He put on this tape he’d made. And, by God, from the speakers came this humongous, pumped-up John Bonham drum sound. Tom started freaking out. “No! No, no, no, no, no! We don’t want that! You need to take that apart!”
Andy was outraged. “Well, why did you hire me? That’s what I’m famous for. Fuck this! I’m getting a flight back!”
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:23 (two years ago) link
i might have exaggerated by citing a week. i was working on memory, having read the book a few weeks ago.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:53 (two years ago) link
XpostsMy theory for how Verlaine gets by is he has one of those rent control moved in in 1985 kind of situations… if not, 700,000 is not wealthy for nyc (NB I sure wish my net worth was 700,000)This still doesn’t tell me what the fuck he does all day long though—smoke—tune guitars—watch TCM—go to the strand—???
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:03 (two years ago) link
You could ask the same of so many musicians.
― Soundtracked by an ecojazz mixtape (Tom D.), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:07 (two years ago) link
I read something about him haunting used bookstores.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:11 (two years ago) link
Are those "net worth" sites even remotely credible?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:16 (two years ago) link
Yeah, the poignant last chapter in Richard Hell's memoir involves Hell running into Verlaine for the first time in years - he was outside of the Strand going through their dollar book bins.
A former roommate of mine who's just a paralegal is on there - I don't know why, but regardless, if their "net worth" was anywhere close to what was listed, they sure aren't spending it.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:23 (two years ago) link
I have recently retrieved a shit ton of Musicians from storage: I have every issue from 1989 through 1993, and a bunch throughout the 80s and a few going forward from 94… if anyone wants me to hunt for something in a piece during that period or see if I have an issue that their interested in, shoot!
I was an intern for the mag in the early 90s, and it is super interesting to look at these things now… a lot of it is influenced by my interactions with the people who ran the mag, a few of whom I dislike, and when Lord Soto mentions the high boomer, late 80s armani-rock movement, as he has often done lately, Musician pushed the SHIT out of that stuff…more than Rolling Stone… Clapton all the time! Amused to Death, Tin Machine II, Human Touch/Lucky Town, the Soul Cages, the first Robertson album and On Every Street are all hailed as major major works…not to mention Jesus Jones and World Party being held up as the great white guy hopes…
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:31 (two years ago) link
"i might have exaggerated by citing a week."
Not really out of bounds of old school big label budget records though. You could run probably run a small space program on 70s-80s on studio block out time paid for artists that decided to do drugs or fxk off instead of actually making music. A couple I have read about include the Church making Starfish with Waddy Wachtel and the Chili Peppers making their record with George Clinton.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:32 (two years ago) link
back when wfmu held their fundraising record shows in manhattan, verlaine would always pop in to browse. he did not like strangers acknowledging him, but he seemed to have certain buddies behind certain tables. so...
- buying cheap used records.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:59 (two years ago) link
Speaking of The Church, Steve Kilbey's autobiography includes some good Tom Verlaine anecdotes. He toured with them (early '90s, IIRC) as their support act, which was a big deal for them as he was a major musical hero. Verlaine's parents were invited backstage at a show near their home, and his mom implored Kilbey to "make sure Tom eats properly".
― Vast Halo, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:01 (two years ago) link
"Here's a bag of horse."
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:08 (two years ago) link
What was the last example from the boomer/"Armani rock" era that had critical and commercial success, rather than being seen as nostalgia or as a comeback? Ten Summoner's Tales?
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:20 (two years ago) link
The Rhythm of the Saints comes to mind instantly.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:23 (two years ago) link
It looks like it was the last of that breed to get in the Pazz and Jop top 10.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:25 (two years ago) link
Clapton's Pilgrim was certainly a death rattle.
― “Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:27 (two years ago) link
saw him move
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:31 (two years ago) link
I kinda of like Lucky Town...seriously though, it's a fine, low-key batch of songs, but it's no "major" work, that's for sure.
I kinda like this one too, but it's not something I would consider putting on a top ten ballot.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:32 (two years ago) link
The classic rock station here played "My Father's Eyes" from that record, during a short-lived era in 1998 when they would announce, "Now, NEW music from a Classic Rock artist!"
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:34 (two years ago) link
"That record": Pilgrim by Clapton.
Back to Television: maybe the Johns/one week thing came from how long he was in the studio with them? I read somewhere that after the blow-up about the drum sound--and the band making tentative peace by explaining he was hired on his track record working w/guitar bands--Johns started disappearing from sessions (or not showing up at all), and didn't reemerge until mixing began.
― “Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:36 (two years ago) link
it was fairly easy for me to run into every single TV guy during my time in NYC… indeed Verlaine was at the FMU record fairs regularly, but the one time I spoke to him was at a Blumfeld show at Brownies in I guess '95…nobody there knew who he was other than me, and he came up to bum a cig off of me, which I was happy to oblige him…I couldn't think of anything to say to him other than, "oh sure, here you go," which is probly for the best… Lloyd played around NYC all the time in the late 90s and 00s, and in particular a free show at Manitoba's was fantastic… I've mentioned here before about working on a project with Dick Hell, who talked shit about Verlaine with great relish…
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:52 (two years ago) link
geez maybe i was at that manitoba's show? was he playing with that woman student of his? i remember going to don hill's afterwards to catch syl sylvain's show. a real ny rock night!
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 20:03 (two years ago) link
― birdistheword
I would!
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 20:20 (two years ago) link
Yeah my friend used to work at one of the other used book stores and TV was a regular. She struck up a conversation with him about the Trautonium which apparently was moderately lively
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 21:55 (two years ago) link
Veronica moser I know you have better things to do with your time than scan old musician articles but damn My golden era reading that magazine was more 1985-1988 though- I think I got into the fall because of a sidebar in Musician of all places!
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 21:57 (two years ago) link
Re: "high boomer, late 80s armani-rock movement," how did we miss mentioning Steve Winwood? Between him, Clapton and Sting, I'm tempted to label it Michelob rock. (Yes, they all hawked different beers, but Michelob has a douchey ring to it.)
Re: Television's third, good call from Alfred, this is good stuff. I noticed guys like DeRogatis and Bill Wyman of the Chicago Reader mercilessly trashing it, but Ira Robbins (who's consistently written positively of it over the years) had probably the best take on their 1992 reunion overall: "Older, more skilled and less excitable, they matched the memory and honoured their previous work by accepting what they were, and what they were not." It's not the Television of yore, but to demand too much of that overlooks what made the Television of 1992 a commendable group. The live Academy recording Jon recommended is indeed excellent, but I had to download it - apparently it was sold only as a CD-R release on their 2003 tour.
Also check out this vintage Television site - it does feel very dated, but for something of that time, it's an impressive design: http://www.thewonder.co.uk
― birdistheword, Monday, 16 August 2021 15:11 (two years ago) link
That Academy CD-R is fantastic
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 16:19 (two years ago) link
where ya'll hearing it? because i need that in my life.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Monday, 16 August 2021 16:25 (two years ago) link
i've got the CD-R itself, but let me see if I can find digital files for you
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 16:40 (two years ago) link
O_O
i was just hoping for a youtube link or something, but that would be rad thank you!
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Monday, 16 August 2021 16:46 (two years ago) link
surprisingly, it's actually streaming on various platforms and available as a download via amazon https://www.amazon.com/Live-At-Academy-NYC-12-4-92/dp/B000TPYU8Y
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 16:57 (two years ago) link
Trying to remember seeing some version of The dB’s in the 80s and them playing “See No Evil” unless the original came over the sound system or maybe it was just a kooky dream?
― No Particular Place to POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 16 August 2021 17:01 (two years ago) link
I noticed guys like DeRogatis and Bill Wyman of the Chicago Reader mercilessly trashing it,
what on earth is there to trash?
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 August 2021 17:05 (two years ago) link