The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

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So I saw someone mention Bob Stinson as the biggest waste of talent. I'm not sure if I would say that or not, but I guess it kind of depends on what you think the Replacements did or didn't achieve during their glory years. So...Let's get to it! Classic or DUD??

larmey, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Speaking as someone raised in (well, near) the Twin Cities, I have to say that the Replacements are one of the most overrated bands to ever walk the Earth. Really. I mean, they only had one decent song ("Within Your Reach"), and that relied on a drum machine!

LIMITED WARRANTY was a more vital, entertaining and coherent band than The Replacements ever were. Anyone who has heard Limited Warranty will understand the magnitude of that claim.

DUD.

Dan Perry, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've only heard one song by them, which was a bit bleh. I should hear more. I doubt I'll like them cause I dont often like that kind of thing.

I'll tell you what's put me off them, though, and that's their nickname. There's something so clubby about "the 'Mats" - it's like "the Stuffies" or something. Ugh. Just typing it makes me wince.

A totally irrational reason to call anything a dud though. So I won't.

Tom, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

NME headline: Husker Pu (or Husker Dudu). Maybe I haven't given them enough of a chance, but their unkempt, dumb and drunken recorded mess never did much for me. Those three adjectives are usually necessary for a good rock band, but for some reason it rubs me the wrong way in the case of the 'Mats (urgh). Throw them at the rotten end of the MN vine with Information Society.

Andy, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hey now! Half of that first InSoc album was great!

(I mean, okay, the other half was like painful orthodontic surgery without anesthesia, but that doesn't diminish the fantastic half...)

Dan Perry, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

If you don't love the 'mats, you never loved rock and roll. Lester Bangs, in his famous article on the Clash, wonders why he looks to art for salvation, and thinks that it was maybe something he once glimpsed for a moment, in the corner of a flashbulb. The replacements are that thing, and are that moment. Hootenanny through Pleased To Meet Me are some of the most brilliant and visceral albums I own. Let It Be and Tim are the two most anthem-packed albums ever produced.

And if you never needed an anthem, you never needed rock and roll.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I Liz Phair (!) said that anyone who's heard "Let It Be" has ended up LIVING the album for about a year afterward.

Three classic albums (Let it Be, Tim, Pleased to Meet Me)

Alex Chilton Color Me Impressed Hold My Life Androgynous Skyway Answering Machine Here Comes A Regular Bastards of Young (the snottiest video EVER) Talent Show Achin' to Be Can't Hardly Wait (studio and live vers. on Shit Hits The Fans) Sixteen Blue Kiss Me On The Bus Left of the Dial Anywhere is Better Than Here I'll Be You I Will Dare Unsatisfied

I really don't think The Who have that many great songs. They were, quite simply, the greatest bar band ever.

JM, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh yeah, the kind of bullshit rock cant they inspire pisses me off too. I never needed rock and roll, mind you.

Tom, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

achin to be (and everything else done on the last two replacements albums) should be disregarded, if for no other reason than it's all just one big symptom of paul westerberg's decision to quit drinking.

that said, "hootenanny" through "pleased to meet me". anything else (with the possible exception of "stink" and "shit hits the fans") should be burned. yeah.

mac., Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Fucking dud, but the video for "Bastards of Young" is one of my fave videos EVER.

simon, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

The first album and especially Stink are wild and awesome, Hootenany is OK, after that they're not even a rock band anymore. I dunno know if Bob Stinson's guitar solos were hurting Westerburgs ears or what (a sure sign of inspiration, in any case) but on everything after that the guitar parts are caked through so many layers of cheap sounding studio glop they may as well have gone synth-pop. For a band whose good recorded output totals MAYBE half an hour, they sure get talked about a lot though.

Krissy Poo, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

The scan of a verse from Bastards Of The Young like "The ones/who love us best/are the ones/we'll lay to rest/And the ones/who love us least/ are the ones/we'll die to please/If it's any consolation/I don't even begin to understand" ranks with some of the great lyrics of all time, with the disintegration of meter at the end heightening the whole thing. And as for not being "rock" post Hootenany, I mean -- they still tear it up by Tim -- including the great thrash break on Left of The Dial which comes out of nowhere. If "rock" is that narrow a term, half of punk, and much more of just about everything else would be excluded.

And as for Tom not needing rock n' roll, well, there's only so much to be done about that.

The 'Mats, I suppose, are somewhere between the Cheers theme song done right and Benetar's "Love is a Battlefield" done angry.

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sigh...It's official. I love Sterling Clover.

larmey, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

And if you don't love Left of the Dial, then you've forgotten where you came from and where were when you found music:

Crusing at two-in-the-morning for no reason other than to stay in range of a college radio station with a bread box transmitter -- a station you found while scanning manically for a dadrock station and the cold reassureance that .38 Special brings... or used to bring. Now you've found The 'Mats and between you and morning is nothing but a stretch of road.

JM, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh I tried with The Mats, problem was, they didn't sound drunk at all, way too neat 80s college rock. Don't know why I even tried when you had Husker Du and Dinosaur Jr. doing real messy things. So for that and their overblown reputation with American critics: Dud.

Omar, Friday, 16 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Classic. Please. Between this thread and the Zeppelin one, certain things about the collective mind of Freaky Trigger readers are becoming clear to me. Folks around here rightly criticize the "rockist" trend of music commentary since the 60s, and they're tired of music scribes championing "authentic" rock'n'roll. So subconsciously, the lot of you throws the baby out with the bathwater. If shitheaded American critics have always fawned over this no-frills rock band, the thinking goes, then they must suck. Wrong! How could fans of the pop song not appreciate the craft at work on records from Hootenanny and Pleased to Meet Me? I don't give a fuck about the Replacements' "legend," about that whole "drunken losers" vibe. Westerburg wrote great songs! Don't write them off just because they were influenced by Chuck Berry and had not interest in deconstruction. Maybe it's not possible to hear them at this point without taking into account all the critical baggage, and that's a shame.

Mark Richardson, Friday, 16 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

More than the Zepwar I think this is a cultural thing. If you look at the imagery being used to describe the band it's all bars and long drives and radio dials, it's very American. Which I'm fine with but it doesn't connect with me. I'm still not saying the band's a dud though cause I've never properly heard them - I've heard and disliked Westerburg solo but as someone suggested in another thread that might well be like saying, oh, Television, dud, cause they'd heard a rubbish Verlaine record. Following this thread I'll obviously have to rectify that.

I have also never, ever, ever, preferred a band to a jukebox in a bar ;).

Tom, Friday, 16 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Mark,I agree entirely. Any doubters please take a listen to "I will dare" or "Unsatisfied" from "Let it Be". Call it pop, call it rock, whatever you call it, it's great!

I love "Let it Be". It's just the essence of rock and roll for me, as is early Kinks or Nuggets-era 60's punk, or The Who, as are the Only Ones, as are the Buzzcocks. As are Urge Overkill! It's just something you feel, and I don't believe what I'm feeling IS a whole lot of cliched images of Americana.

"Tim" is almost there, but I really don't care for the final albums - too polished. I reckon Westerberg knew it was all up, had said all he had to say.

So, classic, despite the later albums. They deserve it despite the rubbish later albums.

Dr. C, Friday, 16 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Glad to see all these posts. The dissenting ones are especially interesting, mainly because I've been in love with the Replacements for years and have yet to tire of them. Best rock/pop band of the 80's. I think the last few posts about "Love is a Battlefield" and college radio said it best, so I'm just gonna stop here. 'Mats (that's for Tom) 4 life!

larmey, Friday, 16 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dud. I don't recoil from the Replacements because they remind of Chuck Berry; it's because they remind me of fuckin' ska-punk. (Yes, that's a weird comparison, but it works for me.) It all just seem self-indulgent to me in some inexplicable way, as if Westerberg et al. had no right to their conflicted conflictedness.

I like the fact that the once set fire to Robert Christgau's hair, though. I give that cheap media stunt an A-plus.

Incidentally, the Cheers theme song done right would simply be the Cheers theme song, and "Love is a Battlefield" done angry would be "Love is a Battlefield." Not as if I like 'em or anything (though it's possible that if I ever heard Larry Levan play it at the Paradise Garage, my opinion would be different), it's just that I think there's nothing you possibly do to those songs that would make their sniveling sentiments any more palatable.

Michael Daddino, Friday, 16 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

i think mark hits upon an interesting note re: the freaky trigger mindset. as perhaps the lone member of the f.t. "collective" -- to tie up several threads -- to like the go-betweens, led zeppelin, orange juice and the replacements, i find it my right, nay, my DUTY to add to the fray.

the above four bands, when grouped, are unique in that i have a hard time summing up my feelings for them, explaining just why i love each, and i almost find it besides the point to try to *speak* about them, as the music says it all to me, and if it doesn't for you, then no reason anyone on this board will give will make you fall in love similarly.

if you don't enjoy the thump of "the immigrant song" or the glee of "bye bye, pride" or the ending of "tenterhooks" or the bridge of "can't hardly wait," then i've nothing to tell you, only that my world has been all the better for them.

fred solinger, Friday, 16 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

One last thing for naysayers, doubters, haters, and of course anyone who hasn't heard them. Go download "answering machine", and tell me that the guitar riff in between the lines in the verses isn't absolutely heartbreaking. GO!

larmey, Friday, 16 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've just downloaded "Answering Machine." I find that the guitar riff in between the lines in the verses is, in fact, not absolutely heartbreaking. Could it be that I just downloaded the wrong remix? Furthermore, the singer is bleaurghiriffic. Maybe there's something about the shame of having spiky hair which forces guys to overemote.

How does one say "I'm Lonely" to an answering machine? Easy. I've done it *lots* of times.

Incidentally, I have a problem with the kinds of sentences about pop music that go "If you don't love X, then you beyond the pale in some way or another." It's a way to pre-empt criticism, and hence, it is bad.

Michael Daddino, Saturday, 17 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

If you say "I've just downloaded "Answering Machine." I find that the guitar riff in between the lines in the verses is, in fact, not absolutely heartbreaking." Then we're going to say "Well... YOU JUST DON'T GET US, MAN!!!" And go turn up our stereos REAL loud, just like Bruce asked us to and listen to rock and we'll be free. So there.

JM, Saturday, 17 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like Tom's idea of the cultural rift, that makes sense to me. I'm trying to think of the reverse, bands that are too "British" for an American go "get" fully. This seems a good topic for a future thread.

Mark Richardson, Sunday, 18 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Mark: The Kinks, Blur... uh... Belle And Sebasitan. All of those bands have their little band of die hards, but they will never get the same exposure as Radiohead, etc.

Note that The Kinks lost their touck on the US charts once they stopped writing songs like 'You Really Got Me'

JM, Sunday, 18 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jimmy, you're right about the Kinks, although they got BACK into the US charts in the late 70's when they turned up the guitars and went metal-lite. Their best and most creative period (1965-1970) went largely un-noticed in the USA as far as I can tell, except perhaps for 'Lola'.

Mark, it IS a great idea for a thread. There are many great British bands who the USA never 'got'. What about The Jam?

Dr. C, Sunday, 18 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Absolute Classic. Go back and reread Mark Richardson's post. If you still don't get it, you lose.

Tim Baier, Monday, 19 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh Please.

I've always been kind of on the fence about the Replacements. There are a couple of nice moments in their early songs, but I have always suspected the fawning praise from the indie-boy critics had more to do with their beery self-mythology than the music.

Saying that people who don't like them "don't get it" sounds a little too uncomfortably close to the rantings of an 11 year old angry at some critic for dissing Justin Timberlake. And the 11 year old has more of an excuse.

Nicole, Monday, 19 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dude, if you don't like Justin Timberlake, you really don't get it.

Sterling Clover, Monday, 19 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nicole, obviously you didn't read Mark's post. You just stated the fact that you were one of the people that is turned off by their "beer-y self mythology". You were the person that he's talking about. You just admitted to it. I don't care that you don't like the Replacements, but PLEASE, don't like them for the right reasons, not because your opinions area a result of the fallout of "indie-boy critic" parise. THAT would be quite 11-year old like.

I didn't mean that people who "don't get" the Replacements lose. I meant that people who don't get Mark's post lose. You, obviously, lose. Sorry. :)

Tim Baier, Tuesday, 20 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Tim, the problem with Mark's post is that The Replacements didn't write great pop songs. They wrote boring crap. Their songs are almost uniformly uninteresting AND painfully sung. They, along with Soul Asylum, represent the nadir of the Twin Cities music scene and I, for one, could never fathom why people liked them so much.

When people go on and on about Husker Du, I understand, because Bob Mould and Co. were doing some very cool stuff within the framework of accessible, understandable rock music. The Replacements don't and could never compare to that.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 20 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Eh? Tim, I don't think you read my post, or were viewing it through an Alta Vista translator or something...

I gave the replacements a try, I really did -- I knew people who raved about them so I tried to give them a chance to impress me.They didn't. I have listened to all of their material up through Pleased to Meet Me. It's not bad...but on other hand, there's just nothing particularly compelling about it to give it that spark that the best pop music has. I don't hate it - I just don't love it either, so I'm still a little baffled as to how you read the phrase "on the fence" as a stand-in for "dislike".

I never "admitted to" being turned off by the beery self-mythology. I was just casting about for an explanation of why certain people might be into them to such a fanatical extent. Maybe I should have included other reasons, to make the point more clear. You know, like maybe it wasn't the beery self-mythology people liked, it was the fact that Tommy Stinson looked like a hairier version of Rob Lowe if you were squinting in a smoky club (well, it was the eighties)? Or maybe airline pilots worldwide rallied round their cause for having the courage to diss stewardesses in "Waitress in the Sky"? Maybe that's what earned them all of that "parise". I don't honestly know.

If that means I've lost something, well...as the legendary Robbie Neville once sang, "C'est La Vie". :-)

Nicole, Tuesday, 20 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dan: You shouldn't have said that the Replacements didn't write good songs and tell me who DID because whaddaya know? I've never liked Husker Du and I wouldn't say that anything they did could touch what Westerberg did in a "classic" manner. I like some HD songs but I haven't felt compelled to listen to one of their records in years, while I just listened to TIM last week. And to equate the Mats and Soul Asylum? Why don't you just throw the Goo Goo Dolls in there!?!?

Nicole: Pardon my errant assumption, but it sure sounded like you were giving the "beery self-mythology" as your reason for not liking them since you didn't give any other reasons.

Tim Baier, Wednesday, 21 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Um.

The Replacements and Soul Asylum are both from the Twin Cities and have, at alternate times, been held up as examples of how vibrant and wonderful the Twin Cities music scene is. The Goo Goo Dolls are from Buffalo and therefore irrelevant to the conversation.

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 21 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Gee Dan, thanks for that bit of history. Your extensive knowledge of musical alterna-lineage is astounding. One thing they must NOT be teaching at Har-vard is a bit of creative thinking. Who cares what town the fucking bands came from? Its all about the music, eh? There's no doubt that the Goo Goo Dolls have stolen extensively from the Mats but that's not a reason for the Mats sucking. Soul Asylum sucks. The Goo Goo Dolls suck. Can you put all of this together?

Tim Baier, Tuesday, 6 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Let's recap for a moment:

I said that The Replacements and Soul Asylum represent the worst of what the Twin Cities music scene had to offer, yet both bands seem to be liked a lot and I could never understand why.

Tim (after taking a moment to slam Husker Du) asked why I didn't bring up the Goo Goo Dolls.

I stated that the Goo Goo Dolls were from Buffalo and have nothing to do with my point, which is that the Replacements and Soul Asylum are two of the worst bands to come out of the Twin Cities.

Tim has a fit.

There are a ton of jokes begging to be made here, but in light of Tom's new stance regarding abusive posts, I will refrain. So, to Tim: Since you want to bring the Goo Goo Dolls into this so desperately, I can't say that they rank among my favorite bands, either, but at least their lead singer can sing. That will excuse many things in my book. (Also, congratulations on being the first person on these boards to attempt to take a shot at me for posting with a Harvard email address.)

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 7 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dan, thank you for recapping what can be read three inches above on the screen as I was having trouble finding the scroll bars. You are a god-send for all like me who were not fortunate enough to attend Har- vard. And I'm always up for jokes even at my expense, so please make all you want. That's what us "commoners" are for, after all. Although I've found that someone who says there are good jokes to be made but notes that he/she will refrain from making them actually can't think of any at the time. They just think that someone with a better sense of humor than themselves could come up with a real zinger on the fly. Don't be scared of the forum rules. After all, I haven't seen anything in my Inbox. Think hard now....

Anyway, by your "relevance" thinking, what does Soul Asylum have to do with the Replacements? Do you think that has more or less musical relevance than what the Goo Goo Dolls have to do with the Replacements? If "your point" was that Soul Asylum is crap, why bring it up in a Replacements thread? Just because they're both from Minneapolis? Fine (however backwards as I see it), but allow me the same freedom to bring up a band that is far more relevant to the "conversation", and the Goo Goo Dolls seem more relevant to the Mats in a musical context than Soul Asylum. And we're still talking about the MUSIC, right?

And was I REALLY "slamming" Husker Du? Do I now need to recap what I said or can we all just scroll up a bit to re-read it? (I'm going to trust that we've learned to use them by now.) I didn't rip 'em a new a-hole or anything. I don't "slam" many bands and certainly not HD. But they have neither the highs nor the longevity of the Mats.

Tim Baier, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Can I just say that despite having almost nothing to contribute to this thread (I have one Replacements LP at my parents' house that I've barely listened to and apparently it's one of the later, crap ones anyway) it is the most entertaining one I can remember reading. Rarely has a they suck/they rock argument been elevated to such heights. .

Nick, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Tim, you're quite welcome for the recap. I'm sorry that it hasn't helped you realize that we're having two seperate conversations, but I gave it the old college try.

Now, you ask, "What does Soul Asylum have to do with the Replacements?" Perhaps if you had utilized your newly-mastered skill with scroll bars, you would have noticed that I initially wrote, "They, along with Soul Asylum, represent the nadir of the Twin Cities music scene and I, for one, could never fathom why people liked them so much." Once you've mastered reading comprehension, you'll see several pieces of information in that sentence:

- I think The Replacements are horrifically overrated.
- I think Soul Asylum is horrifically overrated.
- Both bands come from the Twin Cities.
- Both bands have received critical acclaim and have been held up as representations of Twin Cities music.
- I think that there are a lot of bands from the Twin Cities who are much better than both bands. I facetiously (oops, sorry: jokingly) said Limited Warranty, but that list also includes Husker Du/Sugar/Bob Mould, Walt Mink, The Blue Up?, Tool & Die, Savage Aural Hotbed, Prince and the NPG, The Time/Morris Day/Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Psykosonik, Project X, Lies Incorporated, and Ex- Boyfriends of Pamela.

The only reason I brought up Soul Asylum was to illustrate a point about how people view the music scene in the Twin Cities. I was not equating Soul Asylum to The Replacements as far as their respective sounds are concerned. I never claimed to equate their respective sounds (beyond putting them in a general category called "Bad").

As far as "slamming" Husker Du is concerned: You just said that they had neither the highs nor the longevity of the Replacements. Considering how painfully mediocre the Replacements are, I don't see that as a very positive comment on Husker Du.

Finally, I'd like to point out that, unless there's been a major bio- engineering breakthrough while I wasn't looking, the Replacements aren't your mother and I'm somewhat puzzled as to why you're reacting so vehemently at my disdain. I'm further puzzled as to why you're obsessed with where I went to school, but I really can't do anything about other people's jealousy.

I eagerly await your nonsensical, ranting reply.

Dan Perry, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ah! Now I see! The whole 'mats backlash is coming from a bunch of snobby prah-pah types with thick upper class accents. Proles like me, who got rejected by Harvard and instead had to settle for worthless trade-schools like UC Berkeley and thus are doomed to homelessness and low-band internet access, well we don't need the 'mats explained to us -- We've LIVED THEIR MUSIC, Man!

(On a different note, I actually think the Replacements should get classic status from their seminal proto-slacker attitude, which was fairly distinct at the time)

Sterling Clover, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sterling, you rock. If I knew where you were, I'd buy you a beer.

Dan Perry, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think Paul Westerberg was a good songwriter both in terms of lyrics (Little Mascara) and song structure (Kiss Me On The Bus).

I think that their slacker attitude (as opposed to Pavement's) does not translate well outside the US. (For the reverse thread - I would suggest Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians: "The Man With the Lightbulb Head" reminds me of British comedies on PBS. They're funny, though I never feel like I'm laughing for the right reasons.) A 'beery self-mythology' would leave songs like "Androgynous" and "Little Mascara" unexplained.

I think that Paul Westerberg may have sounded 'bleaurghiriffic' (great word!!) intentionally, but I find this endearing, like the nasality of Jonathan Richman's voice.

I'll quote part of Dan Perry's answer to the tunes thread: "Certain tunes fit certain ways of singing. Certain ways of singing fit certain tunes. [...] Is it suited to the lyrics being sung? Is it suited to the voice singing it? Does the person have the vocal training to pull it off? Does the person have too much vocal training to pull it off?"

I think Paul Westerberg's way of singing fit his songs. On the other hand, listeners may have different tolerances for vocal imperfections based upon their own training.

I think the claim that the Replacements' 'conflicted conflictedness' makes their songs illegitimate is not the same as saying ska-punk is bad because it rips off other musical genres. Experience may be genuinely secondhand. I think it's a suburban thing.

So I would say CLASSIC, but not for reasons of technical virtuosity or being really innovative or anything like that.

I hope I haven't destroyed the fun of this thread.

youn noh, Friday, 9 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh don't worry, its not that much fun anyway. I was really hoping that Dan would post some of his jokes that he said he had. That would have made this fun and the potential for them was the only reason why I came back. Certainly not to hear Dan's "informed criticism" or continued repetition of his assertions and uber-knowledge of Twin Cities music. *Yawn* Now I'm just bored because I've stopped talking about the Replacements and the promise of spirited and humorous rebuttals has not materialized. And as for my "disdain", I could care less if you like the Mats. You're the one who led in with the 14 year old Valleygirl-esque reply "Um...". That's bait. I should have just replied with "No duh", and left it at that.

Dan, if I knew where you were, I'd buy you a beer too cause you definitely need to lighten up a little.

Tim Baier, Friday, 9 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Here's to good friends, tonight is kinda special...

etc., etc., etc.

Nicole, Friday, 9 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, so, classic. No doubt.

larmey, Friday, 9 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

six months pass...
"Sorra Ma, Forgot To Take Out The Trash."

That's one of few punk albums I like. It's just so dang good.

"Mature" Replacements just don't ring my bell. They're just songs, y'know? Not bad, not especially good. Just songs, and who needs more of those.

Jack Redelfs, Tuesday, 25 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

three weeks pass...
The Replacements = the American Kinks. No more, no less. Plus, lookswise Paul Westerberg could be Ray Davies' Yank cousin (or Keith Richards, if you like).

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Sunday, 21 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Personally I'd say classic if only for the fact they introduced me to Alex Chilton. I love the rocking and I love the lyrics. In some ways it reminds me of Catcher in the Rye in the way Westerberg vocalized what so many teens felt. But hey what the feh do I know?

helen fordsdale, Sunday, 28 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Aerosmith's "Jaded" really reminds me of late Replacements. Like that song Westerberg wrote for Joan Jett, "Backlash".

Arthur, Sunday, 28 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I love all four studio records from the Twin/Tone era, they're A-level records to me, but when I first got into them, I recall loving only part of each one and not caring for the rest. Like maybe a few tracks from the debut, "Kids Don't Follow," and then maybe three or four cuts from Hootenanny and maybe five or six from Let It Be. For whatever reason, I couldn't get into the sloppier and less-serious stuff, which feels ridiculous now because that's so much of the band's appeal to me. That's NOW after I've grown to love the band, so maybe it was just something I was generally wary of from anybody at the time?

birdistheword, Tuesday, 1 March 2022 19:50 (nine months ago) link

I've never really listened to the Descendents, did they have any serious stuff mixed in with the snotty goofs and adolescent frustration?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 March 2022 20:00 (nine months ago) link

"Jean Is Dead" off of Milo Goes to College...that album and Fat are really the only ones that I've gone back to.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 1 March 2022 20:17 (nine months ago) link

Actually now that I remember the lyrics, "Hope" and "Bikeage" from the same album too.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 1 March 2022 20:23 (nine months ago) link

There's a bunch of very tuneful and impassioned ballads in the Descendents' stuff. but it's often hellaciously misogynist too.

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 09:46 (nine months ago) link

I have fond memories of Silly Girl, Sour Grapes, Clean Sheets and Bikeage from when I was a teen but I listen to them now and the "I hate you bitch" vibe between the lines is pretty noxious.

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 09:47 (nine months ago) link

my controversial opinion is the best Descendents's best album is 96's Everything Sucks

Still infected with the noxious friendzone bullshit but as always they make it catchy

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 12:19 (nine months ago) link

Some great tunes on that one, no question

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 13:20 (nine months ago) link

The Replacements feel like the smoking, drinking, disaffected fuck-up burnouts at school compared to the Descendents who are farting, junk food eating nerds who think they're smarter and better than the burnouts but in fact are angry misogynist assholes in the modern gamergate / incell / "nice guy" sort of way.

joygoat, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 14:38 (nine months ago) link

my controversial opinion is the best Descendents's best album is 96's Everything Sucks

It was almost like their "Some Girls".

pplains, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 14:43 (nine months ago) link

The Replacements feel like the smoking, drinking, disaffected fuck-up burnouts at school compared to the Descendents who are farting, junk food eating nerds who think they're smarter and better than the burnouts but in fact are angry misogynist assholes in the modern gamergate / incell / "nice guy" sort of way.

Yes, this, definitely.

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 14:45 (nine months ago) link

Though the Mats could probably actually ruin your life, whereas you'd simply block the Descendents on Twitter and never think of them again.

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 14:46 (nine months ago) link

especially after Milo went to college

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 14:57 (nine months ago) link

Hello why do you think I loved the Replacements with all of my tiny foolish heart and didn’t have any time whatsoever for Descendants??? But for evading the misogyny trap no one beats the Dü ❤️

Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 14:59 (nine months ago) link

yeah I was listening to some Descendants last year for the first time in years and it was pretty shocking how much they scan to modern incel stuff

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 15:02 (nine months ago) link

🤮🤮🤮

Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 15:19 (nine months ago) link

I honestly only know the super short food songs.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 15:27 (nine months ago) link

I only know the cover of “Wendy” from the SST Duck & Cover comp. They seemed like weenies.

Piggy Lepton (La Lechera), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 15:30 (nine months ago) link

not necessarily saying this is a good thing, but I think there's a very good argument to be made that they are the most influential punk band of all time

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 15:33 (nine months ago) link

This thread's making me scared to go back to my ALL records.

pplains, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 15:38 (nine months ago) link

But for evading the misogyny trap no one beats the Dü ❤️

oh hells yeah

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 15:49 (nine months ago) link

I thought that first Descendants album and first EP were great, but I think I'll pretend they split up after that rather than finding out for myself what I "missed."

birdistheword, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 16:11 (nine months ago) link

This thread prompted me to relisten to Milo Goes to College for the first time since the 80s. Tight playing, catchy melodies, wonderfully snotty vocals, but yeah some really repulsive views of sexuality.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 2 March 2022 17:13 (nine months ago) link

Ugh...looking through lyrics as it's a different experience to read all of them clearly but I feel like I just died a little bit inside. Maybe I'll just pretend "Weinerschnitzel" was the only thing they ever released.

birdistheword, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 22:51 (nine months ago) link

two months pass...

Shared a cigarette for breakfast
Shared an airplane ride for lunch

Groovy Situation Vacant (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 19 May 2022 20:39 (six months ago) link

Great track. Should've made Dead Man's Pop instead of "Back to Back."

birdistheword, Thursday, 19 May 2022 20:53 (six months ago) link

Wait, it’s not on that?

Groovy Situation Vacant (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 19 May 2022 21:02 (six months ago) link

It is, but as a bonus track, not the album proper.

I should say, Dead Man's Pop (had it gotten a final mix back in the day) should've come out, not Don't Tell a Soul, and on top of that, they should've swapped out "Back to Back" for "Portland."

"We Know the Night" would've been nice too, but according to Wallace they erased the full-band performance so it's lost forever. The version that survives is great, but I don't think they would've used it on a final album.

birdistheword, Thursday, 19 May 2022 21:11 (six months ago) link

Dead Man’s Poop more like it.

Groovy Situation Vacant (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 19 May 2022 21:33 (six months ago) link

Dead Man’s Pop definitely shoulda come out, but I don’t think there was any way that was gonna happen. The sound of it (the recent-ish mix, that is) is far more dry than that of PTMM or even Tim. And a dry-sounding record in 1989 was a non-starter if you wanted a hit, which they did, and almost got (“I’ll Be You” stalled at #51). DTAS got them more exposure than they’d ever had; without the digital-reverb-drenched gated-drum sound, no Petty tour, no regular MTV rotation, no radio play.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 May 2022 21:37 (six months ago) link

With the benefit of hindsight, Wallace and Jason Jones both suggested something that was plausible - Lord-Alge should've mixed the singles. There was precedent for that, both in the Replacements camp and elsewhere on Sire/WB's roster. So slap the Lord-Alge mix on to both the singles sent to the radio stations and the music video, but let Wallace take care of the album. (I don't think a tiny bit more echo would've hurt had Wallace gone that route too, which is plausible based on his work elsewhere.)

birdistheword, Thursday, 19 May 2022 21:55 (six months ago) link

one month passes...

I always like the Replacements, but some days, like today, I absolutely love them. And almost any day, for whatever reason, "Don't Tell A Soul" is the one I reach for first. I *think* it was the first one I heard, because it was contemporary, but regardless, I really like it.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 00:14 (four months ago) link

I'm glad DTAS has its devotees. I'm like that with Tim, which was likewise my first Mats record. I definitely came back around to DTAS after Dead Man's Pop, it helped me connect with some of the songs I'd shrugged at. "Anywhere Is Better Than Here" e.g., is much more of a stomping rock song without the layers of acoustic guitars and whatever else is on there.

Yeah, in the right situation, "Anywhere Is Better Than Here" is a really great song to put on when you're massively pissed off.

birdistheword, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 03:58 (four months ago) link

Talent Show is a really good way to kick off a record

F'kin Magnetometers, how do they work? (President Keyes), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 15:08 (four months ago) link

I feel that way about "Pleased To Meet Me", my introduction to the band and favorite even though "Let It Be" and "Tim" are clearly better records.

"Dead Man's Pop" completely redeems "Don't Tell A Soul" for me, removing the awful production and adding some much-needed oomph to many tracks.

I am in my 50s and stuff like "Unsatisfied", "Answering Machine" and many others still resonate, differently now than when I was 20 of course but still have tremendous power.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 15:17 (four months ago) link

Talent Show is a really good way to kick off a record

Yes. Too bad the record goes downhill from there.

But yes Dead Man's Pop brought it all back from the, um, dead.

L.H.O.O.Q. Jones (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 15:19 (four months ago) link

I enjoy a few songs on each of their records. "Rock 'n' Roll Ghost" is their best Sister Lovers pastiche, but Game Theory have a half-a-dozen better songs in the same mode.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 15:42 (four months ago) link

Which?

L.H.O.O.Q. Jones (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 16:06 (four months ago) link

Mary Magdalene
Any Other Hand
Where You Going Northern
Regenisraen
Together Now, Very Minor
Initiations Week

...and more if I included the Loud Family. I first heard of the band from a review in Spin of Lolita Nation which said they had hooks that Bryan Adams and the Replacements would kill for, though I was probably more intrigued by the mention of Roxy Music.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 16:27 (four months ago) link

Those Game Theory songs and "Rock & Roll Ghost" may have had the same inspiration -- Sister Lovers -- but Game Theory were stone anglophiles in ways the 'mats never were. So with "Ghost" Westerberg nails the stark mood/ambiance of Sister Lovers, but isn't trying for the same hooky melodic sweetness. Even though the 'mats worshipped Beatle-worshippers Big Star, I can't think of a single 'mats song off the top of my head that I could call "Beatle-esque." I can think of at least 10 Game Theory (and Big Star) songs that fit that description.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 16:44 (four months ago) link

Good point, and of course Scott Miller valued aesthetic "tidiness" much more than Westerberg.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 16:49 (four months ago) link

Good description.

L.H.O.O.Q. Jones (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:01 (four months ago) link

Saw a picture of a high school friend with Scott Miller. Believe he was in a band with Miller’s wife. Maybe I should compare notes with when my friends and I met the ‘Mats at The Grotto in New Haven. Alex Chilton was a no-show.

L.H.O.O.Q. Jones (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:03 (four months ago) link

otm re "tidiness." And Miller's voice was mellifluous -- I can't imagine Paul navigating, I dunno, "Penny Lane" or something, but I can easily hear Miller nailing it.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:10 (four months ago) link

I can't think of a single 'mats song off the top of my head that I could call "Beatle-esque."

Mr. Whirly

pplains, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:11 (four months ago) link

D'oh!

L.H.O.O.Q. Jones (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:13 (four months ago) link

“Waitress in the Sky” sounds like Lennon could’ve penned it.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:18 (four months ago) link

Ha! re: "Mr. Whirly"

BUT...was it directly inspired by the Beatles? Or by Tomorrow (featuring Bob's fave guitarist, Steve Howe)?

Compare the intros:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6gqN9HSa7U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TBwM6oz3Bg

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:19 (four months ago) link

four months pass...

This was posted elsewhere by Jason Jones at Rhino but apparently we shouldn't expect a Hootenanny box set due to lack of material. Bummer.

birdistheword, Friday, 18 November 2022 20:40 (two weeks ago) link


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