"New Age Music", search and destroy.

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I can remember this big thing about new age music, hearing about it in the radio, even seeing it on tv (rick wakeman plonking boringly on a piano on breakfast time tv, the presenter intoning, "that was rick wakeman playing an example of 'new age music'") I suppose I remember this vague vibe of ecm meets california hippie w/a serge synthesiser and a flute music (nb I really dig mike stearns, richard burmer, kevin braheny & stuff like that) but watered down somewhat that seemed to emanate from the whole thing, I can remember the look of the albums, plain white sleeve, with nice athena-poster-ish photog in the middle, ripped off ecm and ic records, plus I can remember the label names, or one anyway - windham hill, though there were others, incl a brit label w/thee words "new age actually embossed on the rekkid sleeve. I'm damned if I can actually remember a single piece of music though. not one bit. Possibly I have heard some, but bafflingly, I'm not sure!! What happened? where did it all go?? Was there ever a worse name for a music genre, shooting oneself in the foot style? Conversely, was there ever an easier target for thee UNFUNNIEST act-based-on-music style comedian? Surely some of this stuff must have been good? I mean, phil jupituss probably hates it, so it shd rock, er in an unobtrusive sort of way. I suppose it was a kind of proto-chill out concept thing perhaps... I also suppose thee idea of music that sounds nice, & "beautiful", & nature-ish goes against the whole r&r kick ass canonical thing, like one can't imagine an act on w hill shooting smack into their cock and mythologising it, but that kind of makes me want to like it. Who owns new age rekkids and likes them? Which ones? Why?


Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:02 (fifteen years ago) link

George Winston to thread. Kitaro to thread! MANNHEIM STEAMROLLER NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

Matt Groening came up with the ultimate New Age album title back in the late eighties when in a Life in Hell panel about Binky being a swami for hire it was mentioned that Swami Binkatanda had an album for sale called Spacey Tinkles

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:04 (fifteen years ago) link

Well some Popol Vuh albums ended up being released on "new age" labels - I can see why. Also Deuter ended up as a self-confessed new age musician and his first two albums are great, esp. the more new age one, "Aum".

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:06 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm sure I knew people who were REALLY into the whole thing, to the point where their rekkid collection was just this mass of white sleeves w/tasteful pics, but it was years ago, so probably I'm imagining it. It was surely "lifestyle" music, but did anyone actually live that lifestyle? Apart from the bosses of new age record compaines.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:07 (fifteen years ago) link

...a lot of ageing hippies with money to burn

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:08 (fifteen years ago) link

In California it was all too apt.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:09 (fifteen years ago) link

I like the first Tri Atma record and the first Shadowfax record.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:10 (fifteen years ago) link

Of course. Yes, I have "tantric songs", and er "hosianna mantra" as a twofer, on a label called CELESTIAL HARMONIES!! A pretty nice package, as it happens. See, I'd like to say, pah, popol vuh is N0T NEW AGE, but what woule be better (and a very very long shot I fear) would be if there were loads of acts producing popol vuh ish music on new age labels that I've never heard of!!

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:10 (fifteen years ago) link

search: ash ra tempel - new age of earth

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:14 (fifteen years ago) link

New Age has it's own style guide at AMG


DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:17 (fifteen years ago) link

search: Harold Budd

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:17 (fifteen years ago) link

I remember buying in a load of kitaro on cassette at the used rekkid store, as it happens (stop me if you've heard this one more than twice before haha) when we had the policy of playtesting all the used CDs and tapes. Man that was an excerise in torture. It all sounded like a really really bad version of "shine on you crazy diamond part one", really plodding and leaden, and the snare drum sounded like someone hitting a box of rice crispies w/a 12" ruler. really quite unbelievably BAD. Shortly after that we dumped the policy, and just refunded faulty discs/tapes. I mean, the possibility of getting burned once in a while was as nothing compared w/the possibility of suffering thru more kitaro!!

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:19 (fifteen years ago) link


Robert Bearns & Ron Dexter - The Golden Voyage Vol.2 - A Galactic Exploration Through Celestial Harmonics

except you will never find it, so let me just say that it's a pretty cool record.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:20 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, harold budd I like, and didn't he actually appear on one of those labels? New age of earth good as well, though "Blackouts" is better, I think.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Search: David Hykes & The Harmonic Choir - Hearing Solar Winds

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link

check this out:


Will "stonewall" jackson from "ether ship" (!), playing his serge synthesiser to the whales, from greenpeace's ship, in 1977!


Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:24 (fifteen years ago) link

I've got some Eckankar and Baha'i records that would blow yer mind. Cults make the best new age muzak. (England Dan & John Ford Coley after they went Baha'i rock!)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:24 (fifteen years ago) link

S: Michael Hedges for god's sake.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:27 (fifteen years ago) link

I googled one of the titles you mentioned above, scott, and got this list:


See, most of this stuff, I've actually owned, or own (all the edgar froese, klaus schultze, t dream, vangelis, eno, a r temple/tempel, paul horn in the pyramid) but to me, it's all kind of previous to the whole new age thing.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:30 (fifteen years ago) link

Other threads of interest.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:39 (fifteen years ago) link

Steve Roach and Robert Rich both make some pretty good music and they are usually consigned to the new age ghetto.

earlnash, Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Yeah, severe pity -- they've both released many excellent albums.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:55 (fifteen years ago) link

where is the line between "new age" and similar euro-electronic stuff (later tangerine dream, jarre, etc) drawn?

stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 16:59 (fifteen years ago) link

downloaded this recently (vintage: 1978 italy) and am finding it unusually stylish and quite engaging for this sort of thing...


stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:03 (fifteen years ago) link

probably anything post-70's and of the windham hill/winston ilk is what most people think of now when they think of new age music.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:06 (fifteen years ago) link

but that doesn't mean that i can't have my own definition and listen to the good stuff.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:07 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm not a big Hassell fan. I love Jade Warrior. I've got 5 or 6 of their records. I really like the early Vertigo stuff too. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:08 (fifteen years ago) link

Ned, I kiss you for bringing up Kitaro! : )

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:08 (fifteen years ago) link

what's worth listening to of winston's?

stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:09 (fifteen years ago) link

it all kinda sounds the same to me. but i'm not an expert. don't know anything about liz story either.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:11 (fifteen years ago) link

btw, thank you jeanne, i was beginning to feel self-conscious being the only girl posting on this thread.

stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Winston is interesting b/c he comes from the acoustic side of New Age, which at one time included people like John Fahey, Robbie Basho, and Leo Kotke. If I am remembering right guitarist William Ackerman started Windham Hill and at one time was quite tight with Fahey. Been a long time since I listened to George Winston -- not sure if any of it would interest me now! But back in the 80s I used to like Autumn.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Autumn was a huge seller for Windham Hill. He helped put them on the map.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Here is something I wrote on New Age a couple years ago.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:16 (fifteen years ago) link

I think the popular new agey stuff now is all worldbeat-infused. those hybrid records of african/electronic/trancey things. My wife's father has all those cd's at his new age retreat in massachusetts. some of it is pretty psyched-out and droney and some of it is just kinda, i don't know, lame.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:17 (fifteen years ago) link

I bought a CD at a yard sale for $0.50 called Afrobeat Lounge. That title says it all.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:20 (fifteen years ago) link

By some definition, it seems that I already have a bunch of "new age". Multiple x-post, b/c omg wtf I actually had a couple of customers to-day, but I got robert rich' album "bestiary" sent to me by the fellow who runs synthesis technology whose modular synthesiser I pwn. Rich has a similar synthesiser, though his has about 4 x more modules, and he is about 100000000 times better at using it. It is a very, very good album. Burmer, I only have on "western spaces" alongside steve roach and kevin braheny, but that's another really good piece, like nothing happens on it, but it's a kind of awe-inspiring wide-open space nothingness.

Those old Jade Warrior recs are so obscure, even among vertigo collectors, that it amazes me. They're really good, surely one of the few undiscovered little gems of their sort out there.

I tend to differentiate between synthesiser/electronic/space music (as was) of the sort I got into when I was first getting into music, when I'd buy anything w/a picture of a modular synth on the back cover, and a nebula or suchlike on the front, and yer actual "new age". I have NO IDEA why. What got me into asking the qn was I got stuck on hold to-day, and the hold music was tinkly piano music w/added (quite strange-sounding) synthesiser, and based on this suzanne ciani concert I saw at a dutch electronic music concert years ago, I found myself thinking snidey thoughts abt "new age music". Then I realised that I had absolutely no idea what I was on abt. ILE has not let me down, and I thank you all for the great responses!

Anyway, based on the definitions above, my candidate for "search" is kronos by michael stearns, which is a wonderful synthesiser music record.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:39 (fifteen years ago) link

Someone once wrote something like "Your parents like Windham Hill, you like Kranky," which I think is a bit glib but kind of amusing

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:41 (fifteen years ago) link

"Chronos", not "Kronos", and on reflection, a better title is "Planetary Unfolding" anyway. Humour me plz, to-day has been teh sukc.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:43 (fifteen years ago) link

search: vacca and moran, whose best work, like the best new age, is like sitting on a country porch listening to the rustling wind, only the wind has some harmony going on.

search: codona. the trio of collin walcott, don cherry and nana vasconcelos, whose albums were simultaneously claimed by new age fans, world music fans and jazz dudes, and were pretty good if memory serves.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:51 (fifteen years ago) link

Ned, I kiss you for bringing up Kitaro! : )

*blush* Rah!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 17:53 (fifteen years ago) link

the new age stuff that i dig that i never know any names/titles of is all the stuff i've ever heard on the radio on new age radio shows that is just basically super-mimimal ambient electronic modern classical geometric drug/head music with titles like "raindrops parts 1-10". that stuff always gives me those good kinda acid flashbacks that remind me of the stuff i would hear in my head as a kid when i would try to go to sleep after tripping all day. basically anyone making music with computers/moogs who decide what note to play next only after consulting the tides/moon charts. whale music is kinda nice too. and i heard this beautiful recording once of nothing but droning trombones taped in some underground catacombs and i forget the title and it's been bugging me for years.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:01 (fifteen years ago) link

"And now, Music From Some Guys in Space."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:02 (fifteen years ago) link

Kitaro - duddy
Tomita - yeah!!!!! (The star hustler theme is by tomita, that's all you need to know!)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:03 (fifteen years ago) link

although, like i said on a thread last week: the over-the-topness of some kitaro records is kind of a hoot. when he's got all the bells, gongs, synths, and pomp going at once.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:05 (fifteen years ago) link

what's the diff between ambient and new age (if any).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:11 (fifteen years ago) link

I just read pitchfork media mark's article linked above, and it's fucking good.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:12 (fifteen years ago) link


stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:16 (fifteen years ago) link

on a similar tip of breaking down boundaries between electronic instrumental scenes

Star's End - 25 Significant STAR'S END Albums

DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:21 (fifteen years ago) link

yeah, i just read it too. it's good. and it does a good job of describing that fine line between ambient/kraut/electro/windham. Julio, read that article linked above.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 18:25 (fifteen years ago) link

i get not wanting to include more well-known artists on a comp like this, but I also think it's useful/interesting to hear those "big" names in the company of obscurities. i'm probably a curious dabbler in this kind of thing anyway. love to dabble.

tylerw, Thursday, 5 January 2017 15:57 (two years ago) link

and while i'm here, let me highly recommend this series of amazing mixes (some of which falls into the "new age" category, some of which may not) that a friend of mine put together over the last few years: http://loveallday.com/category/gown-control/
so good!

tylerw, Thursday, 5 January 2017 16:00 (two years ago) link

xp relatively speaking, so am I! I leave it to experts to compile stuff like this because I no more want to needle drop on a thousand shitty new age LPs looking for hidden gems than I do scour bins looking for demotik Greek 78s or researching unlabeled dub plates.

Wimmels, Thursday, 5 January 2017 16:01 (two years ago) link

These comps looks great, Tyler, thanks!

Wimmels, Thursday, 5 January 2017 16:02 (two years ago) link

yr welcome -- the piano one in particular is AMAZING. but they're all good -- this guy Michael has indeed needle dropped on a thousand shitty new age LPs (and listened to even more tapes) looking for hidden gems. he is great at finding them.

tylerw, Thursday, 5 January 2017 16:11 (two years ago) link

and the whole thing flows rather nicely, like a playlist where you occasionally recognize the song playing but not the ones surrounding it.


though she denies it to the press, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 5 January 2017 16:54 (two years ago) link

I wonder if anyone can ID the first track here or have a stab at who it might be by. Or indeed any others in the first 17 minutes (before the two Kraftwerk tracks), or the one at 29 minutes after No Man...


Noel Emits, Friday, 6 January 2017 12:41 (two years ago) link

And the echoey acoustic guitar + wave sounds & flute + harmonium tracks after that, before the Robert Leiner etc. You get the idea.

Noel Emits, Friday, 6 January 2017 12:46 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

Gown Control mixes are amazing (I am through Volume 3 and Sunpath are blowing my mind. Thinking about picking up the two tape set. Loved the Planetary Pleasure track on the first one, downloaded the whole tape and found it a little different (more Christian hippy dippy amateur harmony vocals over Joseph Byrd style experiments than I was expecting) but pretty charming none-the-less.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 4 March 2017 22:59 (two years ago) link

been listening to those sunpath cassettes on Apple Music ("yasimin and the snowflake dragon" and "sunpath 2") and yes they are marvelous

the late great, Saturday, 4 March 2017 23:04 (two years ago) link

Sunpath! Where has this been hiding?! Beautiful stuff.

Wimmels, Sunday, 5 March 2017 02:55 (two years ago) link

It's weird to me that there isn't a book about this scene--its origins, politics, most famous practitioners--by now. Surely someone is working on one? If one exists, can anyone point me in that direction? A few years ago I had a book from the eighties that was sort of "who's who" of new age, and it was enlightening enough (if dated), but was more a 'guide' in the Trouser Press sense, with an alphabetical listing of artists and short, paragraph-sized spotlights on particular high points of the respective discographies.

This Sunpath stuff, I just want to reiterate, is great, btw. Almost in a too-good-to-be-true way, like it could be a hoax or something. Any way it could be a hoax or something? Kinda weird that the only link on Discogs is to this 2016 "reissue"

Wimmels, Sunday, 5 March 2017 21:06 (two years ago) link

There's an interview out there with the guy who made it: https://www.stonesthrow.com/news/2016/05/sunpath

larry appleton, Sunday, 5 March 2017 21:12 (two years ago) link

Well, yeah, but that could just be someone's dad or something in that photo! It wouldn't take a great amount of effort to just have someone pose as this guy in phone interviews and then provide a picture of some rando guy who looks the part.

Let me be clear: I am in no way suggesting this is a hoax, only that it would be funny / neat if it was, and would not diminish my enjoyment of it whatsoever. You have to admit, though, the fact that Google turns up no info at all on this guy before 2016 is somewhat suspect, given that even the most obscure shit (even obscuro new age tapes - see the many blogs) has at least some web presence.

Wimmels, Sunday, 5 March 2017 23:32 (two years ago) link

"Sonic Seasonings" (1972) by Wendy Carlos must be one of the earliest ambient/new age albums in existence?

Carlotta's Portrait (Ross), Sunday, 5 March 2017 23:34 (two years ago) link

sunpath interview is awesome

the late great, Sunday, 5 March 2017 23:59 (two years ago) link

i'm really digging the sunpath, thanks. esp. the song "gá te", particularly the passage from about 18:00 to 19:30. wow.

Karl Malone, Monday, 6 March 2017 04:00 (two years ago) link

i realize it's silly to isolate a brief section from a 30 minute song, but it enters into a true magic zone there

Karl Malone, Monday, 6 March 2017 04:00 (two years ago) link

Whelp I guess that answers that. I find the fake lost recordings phenomenon/marketing to be a little interesting as I'm not sure if most cases the music wouldn't be just as warmly received without it (Unknown Krautrock and Stefano Loprato spring to mind).

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Monday, 6 March 2017 13:04 (two years ago) link

I agree. There was a metal band a few years ago called Velvet Cacoon who (iirc) were exposed as some sort of phonies, but the records they made are still great imo. See also: Marvin Pontiac

xp Yeah, good sleuthing! Still, crazy that that's what you turned up. It's crazy that something in this day and age can remain so (almost) completely off the grid.

Wimmels, Monday, 6 March 2017 14:24 (two years ago) link

Wasn't the Jurgen Muller 'lost' album from a few years ago famously a hoax?

groovypanda, Thursday, 9 March 2017 14:40 (two years ago) link


One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 9 March 2017 15:27 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

When I click show all messages in this thread, Chrome blocks the page and warns that www.technodisco.net is an attack site. I'm guessing there's a message with some embedded dodgy code/links? All I wanted were some blissed-out Aquarian vibes...

the_ecuador_three, Tuesday, 11 April 2017 12:14 (two years ago) link

I put a note in to Mod Request

sleeve, Tuesday, 11 April 2017 13:55 (two years ago) link

nice stuff on that mix

ogmor, Tuesday, 11 April 2017 14:05 (two years ago) link

three months pass...


Word on FB from mutual friends that Geoffrey Chandler has passed. Only one album in his discography but that one helped define the entire genre. We need a cleaned up remaster of it very very badly.

Milton Parker, Sunday, 16 July 2017 20:54 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

idk about the first track but otherwise SEARCH: Remote Dreaming by The Ghostwriters, from 1986. absolute bliss. basically sounds like the album title + the cover illustration


brimstead, Thursday, 5 October 2017 02:06 (two years ago) link


brimstead, Thursday, 5 October 2017 02:07 (two years ago) link

Mu-Psych Music!

doug watson, Thursday, 5 October 2017 13:13 (two years ago) link

i lived long enough to see this dollar bin record get a fancy new vinyl reissue that will probably cost you about 25 bucks with shipping:


scott seward, Thursday, 5 October 2017 13:31 (two years ago) link

also came here to say that this album is awesome and should cost you about five bucks now so don't wait for the 30 dollar reissue in ten years:


scott seward, Thursday, 5 October 2017 13:34 (two years ago) link

when the hell what that a dollar bin album, the early 90s???

brimstead, Thursday, 5 October 2017 14:26 (two years ago) link


brimstead, Thursday, 5 October 2017 14:26 (two years ago) link

well, yeah. i'm old. i just meant nobody really wanted it until internet era.

scott seward, Thursday, 5 October 2017 14:50 (two years ago) link

ha yeah it's kinda quaint reading the beginning of this thread. "who the hell listens to this stuff? why?"

brimstead, Thursday, 5 October 2017 14:52 (two years ago) link

It’s totally not worth a search but just want to mention that in my city every adult seemed to have only 3 new age artists in their collection and they were always the same: Enya, Spyrogyra and Secret Garden. Era was also huge but that was in the new age revival attempt in the late 90’s. Were “Ameno” and “Misere Mani” as huge in the US or Europe? I know they were also huge in France. Here in Mexico they would play in the hits radio every single day. And both Era 1 and Era 2 were selling like hot bread and would be featured in the top 10 of every fucking music store you entered.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 5 October 2017 15:26 (two years ago) link

“Misere Mani” is actually a guilty pleasure of mine... I feel it would be an awesome song with better production it makes pop with gregorian chants work better than they should.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 5 October 2017 15:29 (two years ago) link

spyro gyra are a jazz group, yo!

brimstead, Thursday, 5 October 2017 15:45 (two years ago) link

or like, when jazz-funk started to stink. some of their early stuff is nice, though

brimstead, Thursday, 5 October 2017 15:46 (two years ago) link

Oh you’re right! Tbh I’ve never listened to them I just related them to new age because they were popular around the same time and the same audience as new age consumers.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 5 October 2017 15:58 (two years ago) link

Re: Ghostwriters, I've been wondering what you can say about Charles Cohen these days. He made some really fantastic synthesiser music. One of those tracks is on the A Retrospective compilation.

Noel Emits, Thursday, 5 October 2017 16:08 (two years ago) link

new age fans might be into the other spirogyra though. especially first wave new age fans who went from art/prog rock to new age.


scott seward, Thursday, 5 October 2017 16:09 (two years ago) link

the few obits i've seen for him have definitely been somewhat awkward xp

plp will eat itself (NickB), Thursday, 5 October 2017 16:20 (two years ago) link

Xpost is fuzak kind of a suburb of new age? I think it is

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:08 (two years ago) link

ha yeah it's kinda quaint reading the beginning of this thread. "who the hell listens to this stuff? why?"

― brimstead

see also grateful dead thread

the late great, Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:23 (two years ago) link

UK-centric ILX had some weird blind spots, see also Tom Petty

sleeve, Friday, 6 October 2017 00:04 (two years ago) link

there was definitely a different more specific ethos going on

not that i'm disparaging this thread! i actually think the early posts in this thread is some of ilm'n at its finest

brimstead, Friday, 6 October 2017 00:52 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

Pauline Anna Strom compilation on RVNG is fantastic

Choco Blavatsky (seandalai), Monday, 13 November 2017 22:23 (two years ago) link

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