Brian Eno - C or D?

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I went through the archives, and I don't see this one anywhere.

So, have at it.

James Morris (HorrayJames), Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Classic because he was the 70s avant-garde. Classic for Another Green World and Before And After Science, classic for his collaboration in Bowie's Berlin trilogy, classic for his record label which released the likes of Gavin Bryars, classic for so many things.

Jonathan Z., Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

here come the warm jets is the best pop album made by anyone (as of today).

Phoebe Dinsmore, Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

yesterday i opened up the copy of here come the warm jets i had out of the library to find that in addition to the actual cd was a cdr copy of it. which was nice.

i remember the ambient stuff being way better than i expected, too, though i haven't heard it in a while.

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:52 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Love 'another green world' and 'before and after science' (the last track on the latter was the last thing I heard that made me all warm and fuzzy inside). Like the ambient stuff.

Didn't care for 'heroes' from the one listen I gave it a couple of years ago.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Absolutely classic. Love his music (95% of it), love his productions (not just Talking Heads but also U2 and, damn it, James!), love his collaborations (with Bowie, John Cale, Harold Budd, Daniel Lanois...). Lately his ambient work has been a little bland but it's no less theory-based than some of the stuff in the '70s. His work with self-generating music may be more interesting than the results, but who knows what application it may have in a few years?

And I'm a sucker for the Wall of Eno vocals he adds to everything he works on. For a somewhat limited singer, he harmonizes with himself really well, from his one man band "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" to more recent stuff like "Someday" (that beautiful James song from the very underrated "Laid").

Anyone ever hear the NPR piece on "Once in a Lifetime," which details just what Eno brought to the track? He basically added the call and response chorus, worthy of the co-write credit. Eno also gets co-writer credit on "Heroes."

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Classic....if only for "Backwater" and "Needle in the Camel's Eye".

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Classic. It's hard for me to get interested enough in the question to argue the point, because I kind of take it for granted. That doesn't mean everything he has touched has turned to gold, but here are some reasons I rate him highly:

1. Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy) (the only solo Eno album I am enthusiastic about in its entirety), as well as individual tracks on some of his other albums (especially Before and After Science).

2. His touch as producer on what are often the best albums of the bands he's worked with: Remain in Light, Bowie, Devo (I forgot this--using allmusic as a cheat-sheet now), etc.

3. Collaborations with: Fripp (although I would say say that Fripp carries most of the weight there--but still, I think Eno's presence counts), Jon Hassel, etc.

Etc. because I have to go.


Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:26 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

4. Even some of his theoretical musings are worthwhile, especially that talk on using the recording studio as an instrument.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:29 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Didn't he admit to drinking his own urine recently? The man's not well.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Classic, of course! "Julie with..." and "By This River" remain two of the prettiest songs I've ever heard.

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Takign Tiger Mountain, Another Green World, Before and After Science, the synth climax on Virginia Plain, Remain in Light, Low, On Land and providing most of the redeeming features to make U2 a thousand times more bearable than every other vague anthem-monger are enough to qualify him as utter classic no matter how over-rated Warm Jets and Airports are and how crappy his solo output has been for about 20 years.

fcussen (Burger), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

He drank his own urine in the "A year with swollen index" (or whatever) book from 1995, he'd watched a film, had a bottle of wine and couldn't be bothered to move to take a leak, so peed in the empty wine bottle, then wondered what it tasted like. As you do. I seem to remember this was related to his tale of finding a way to piss in Duchamp's toilet, or something like that.

Of course, the man and the vast majority of his music, and his influence, is classic. Couldn't live without "Taking tiger mountain" or "Music for airports" amongst others. Those two boxed sets are two of the best investments I've ever made.

Rob M (Rob M), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

That Passengers album ain't so bad either. Of its time 'n' all but still...

fcussen (Burger), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:02 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Been enjoying the hell out of Eno/Cale Wrong Way Up recently. It's a little dated in that 80s-ish "Let's Incorporate African Pop into Western Pop" kind of way, but all the simple songs get to me.

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

"The Big Ship" from Another Green World puts me in a trance. Don't drive to it.

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Thursday, 22 January 2004 17:09 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Plus there's all that stuff I enjoyed a lot at one time, even if I'm not into it now, like My Life in the Bush of Ghosts.

Plus the Obscure Music series, which has some good titles.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 22 January 2004 17:12 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I think one of the reasons i like him so much is that I am a child of Napster and the incessant dilettantism and boundary-pushing is something I can realte to.

fcussen (Burger), Thursday, 22 January 2004 17:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Classic. Here Comes The Warm Jets is the REAL Alien rock. Fuck Ziggy.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:11 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

If for nothing else "Another Green World"

Its just so coool. Weird pop and ambienty bits floated against each other in the nicest way, and my four year old loves to sing "I'll come running" which has got to get him some points somewhere.

hector (hector), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:17 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

1972-1985 inclusive, everything he touched. including the interviews, many of which are up on enoweb, but I'd buy a book that compiled them.

then, suddenly, like a switch being thrown...

when 'wrong way up' came out an interview disc was distributed to radio, where he's sounding and dull, then at the end he begins talking about the recent birth of his daughter and how unimportant the theoretical side of music had become to him, and how now he just wanted to relax and play tunes. which makes me happy for eno the man, but keeping up with the last decade of releases has been a punishing experience.

'spinning away' from 'wrong way up', still excellent though

(Jon L), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:45 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Unbelievable songwriter--I was in a one-off Eno cover band a couple of months ago, and we could not BELIEVE how much mileage he got out of incredibly simple structures. I mean, "The True Wheel"--that song has _four chords_ in it, and it sounds like the lushest deepest most complicated thing ever. "Third Uncle" has one.

Douglas (Douglas), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:16 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

already embarrassed about my grumbly post. if I ever say anything about the 90's output, it's only because the 72-85 stretch is so bafflingly inspired. if I ever lost my record collection I'd be buying most of these back first.

(Jon L), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I mean, "The True Wheel"--that song has _four chords_ in it, and it sounds like the lushest deepest most complicated thing ever.


Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 January 2004 02:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Strange, I've just sung through "The true wheel" in my head and can only count three... oh, just got to the end part where the fourth chord comes in. Sorry. My God, what a song!

"Ding ding!"

Rob M (Rob M), Friday, 23 January 2004 08:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Anyone that even cosiders sayind "dud" is loco. Amazing, influential, smartest man in music, etc. I want him to be my dad.

anode (anode), Friday, 23 January 2004 12:27 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

five months pass...
One thing I don't think I've said about Taking Tiger Mountain by Strategy is that I got a copy* around the time that I had just about lost my belief in Christian doctrine, so it took on kind of a heavy symbolic weight of the scarey, uncertain, world of religious disbelief. (Obviously I hadn't only listened to Christian music up until then. That's not the point.) I want to exmphasize, this is a symbolic purpose I was giving it: I don't think it has much to do with the album itself (although it is kind of interesting in light of some things I've read by him essential outlining an anti-fundamentalism--of whatever source--stance). Just the cover itself took on a certain weight, and I wasn't totally happy about it. It didn't look like an especially happy world (and I've never been unambivalently attracted to hipster jadedness, if I've ever been attracted by it at all), but it seemed somewhat inevitable that I would be joining it. Graphically, it was: the cover of Taking Tiger Mountain vs. the dull blue cover of Cornelius Van Til's Defense of the Faith (given to me by my brother-in-law). I think I was more visually oriented then. Anyway, book covers or album covers could easily become suffused with an emotional coloring.

*I can't remember if I bought a copy or received it as a gift, but probably the latter. I used to get my older brother to buy me "weird"** records for my birthday and Christmas.

**I think he thought it was weird anyway (judging by his response to what I listened to on the radio), but I think he was a little amused to watch me growing up and getting into punk and new wave, and new bands he hadn't heard of, or other stuff that seemed esoteric to him. I think he may have bought me this album, the first Psychedelic Furs album, and Fripp's Let the Power Fall, and some a John Coltrane collection, all at my request. Now I'm getting all sentimental about my older brother. I miss being close to my family, and it's all Brian Eno's fault--well, not exactly.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 21 July 2004 01:42 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Inspired by o. nate, sort of.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 21 July 2004 01:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink


James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 02:32 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

that was a great post, rockist. thanks.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 02:36 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

xpost Interesting story rockist. Still, Taking Tiger is Brian Eno at his worst/most/annoying (lyrically) to me. What about the lyrics hit home for you?

artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 02:38 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

It wasn't the lyrics, it was more the entire package (literally). I don't have a functional copy of the album right now, so I haven't heard it for a while.

Possibly the fact that I often couldn't make out the lyrics or didn't know what he was talking about contributed to my liking the songs. "With Burgundy, Tizer and Rye/Twelve sheets of foolscap: don't ask me why." I'm still largely in the dark about these lines, for example. I think I only found out what foolscap is in the last few years and I've already forgotten the details.

I kind of like the lyrics to "True Wheel." I am looking at a lyrics page now, and I find myself saying, oh, is that how it goes? I really am not even hearing what he's saying a lot of the time.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 21 July 2004 02:51 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The lyrics are not the first thing I noticed about TTM(BS) either. I mean some of the lines (e.g., "burning airlines give you so much more") kind of stick in my mind, but I think that's more a function of being wedded to a good melody. I was in a bar where this guy I know works and he was playing songs from his iPod over the stereo. At one point I asked him, Is this the Thinking Fellers? And he said, no it's Brian Eno. Then later another song came on, and I asked him if it was the Swell Maps. Again it was Eno. It turns out both songs were on TTM(BS). That's when I knew I needed to hear the rest of the album.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 03:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

wow, yeah, hearing eno (after soo much indie stuff) really is amazing (and it seems like he just pulled half of it out of his ass) xpost

artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 03:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Classic, for all his instrumental music from the start to the end, and for 'A year With Swollen Appendices' (in my opinion anyway)

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 03:36 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I'm curious: is there anyone reading this thread who's never listened to Eno? Anyone been inspired to after all the hosannas here?

Douglas (Douglas), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 04:27 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I really haven't heard enough !!

Sonny A. (Keiko), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 04:51 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I find "Put A Straw Under Baby" hilarious (as a fallen catholic). Taking Tiger Mountain is the only of his solo/pop records I like. for his ambient work - Music For Airports, Discreet Music, and the Fripp/Eno ones are great.

sherm, Wednesday, 21 July 2004 15:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i have two eno records.

music for airports = nice but forgettable, put aside after a couple of listens.

apollo = stunningly beautiful, one of my most played albums in recent times.

with this in mind, what next?

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 15:42 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I had only heard some of his ambient stuff up until a few months ago! (not couting roxy music!)

artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 16:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink


try no pussyfooting, with fripp.

peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 16:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I rate his first 4 rock LPs classic. "Tiger Mountain" contains some of the best words I know. "Before and After Science" is very strong, esp. the "rhythm" side. As for the later stuff, I like "Nerve Net" and his collab with Cale "One Way Up." Not such a big fan of a lot of his ambient music, fine as it is. I'd put "Green World" and his Jon Hassell collab from '80 at the top of the list myself. Reading his diary I do get the impression he's a pretentious little guy, but he's done a lot so I suppose he earned it.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 16:57 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Classic, for most of the reasons already stated. If you're interested, there is an excellent, but long, article by Lester Bangs on Eno. You can read it here:

erv (Abe Froman), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 21:04 (fourteen years ago) Permalink


a musical genius, the godfather of Ambient, the mastermind of warm synthesis, although the cause of a lot of shit (ie damp snares in 80s music from Low) still one of the true heads!

A let me emphasize his Ambient series - i don't understand why anyone hasn't yet. On Land, man! and lets not mention the second side of Day of Radiance with Laraaji (the first side i admit being...well). Most of my feelings on Before and After Science, Another Green World have meen mentioned.

And on a last note, My Life in the Bush of Ghosts is fucking ingenius record :)

Rob McD (Rob McD), Thursday, 22 July 2004 04:58 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

1st three solo albums are indespencable, punch your mom in the throat and steal money from her purse to buy these records, you need them. solo album #4 before and after sicence was an over considered creative disaster and not worth your hard earned record money, this record was why he stopped making rock records. after this you need anything he did with Harold Budd, you need Low by David Bowie, Oh Jesus Christ do you need Low by David Bowie, rob a bank get Low by David Bowie, pilfer from the sunday collection plate, knock over an old lady, buy a copy of Low by David Bowie, assasinate George W for Al Queda bounty money, decapitate a government contractor... whatever you need to do, get a copy of Low by David Bowie, you need Ambient 4: On Land, and Apollo, AM2 Plateau of Mirrors. Buy copies of Brian Eno and the vertical color of sound by Eric Tamm, and A Year With Swollen Appendices by Brian Eno, as these books will make your life infinitely more mysterious and interesting and delicious. Do what you need to do, I cannot force your hand, but seriously get the books, you will thank me later.

Disco Nihilist (mjt), Thursday, 22 July 2004 08:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

christ, I drink a bunch of alcohol and then a bunch of coffee, and all of a sudden I cannot spell.

seriously, listen to the title track from Taking Tiger Mountain or the first track on Warm Jets and get back to me, you will be a convert y0.

Disco Nihilist (mjt), Thursday, 22 July 2004 08:27 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

You know what else I think? I think Kate Bush's The Dreaming bears a strange resemblance to Taking Tiger Mountain, thematically (all the secret agent drama, the Asian references). The lyrics aren't goofy the same way as Eno's, and the albums certainly don't sound the same, but the imaginary scenarios seem a bit similar (even if Eno's are more indeterminate).

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 22 July 2004 20:29 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I think I like The Dreaming again. I like almost everything at the moment. My brain may be overheated.

My neighbors must wonder what's up when they walk by my apartment door and hear me playing music with English lyrics.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 22 July 2004 20:35 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I don't understand how anyone could be so hostile toward before and after science. I don't much like the first couple songs but c'mon, the second side is beautiful. julie with? by this river? these are undeniable!

kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 22 July 2004 21:10 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

absolutely, anthony. the second side of before + after science is the music i'd like to hear in my dreams.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Thursday, 22 July 2004 21:16 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I know! One reason I mentioned it. He’s Pitchfork emeritus at this point, lives in New England. Great dude.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 23 August 2018 18:13 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I am a big brian eno fan as well and always found "music for airports" really boring whenever i tried to listen to it which wasn't very often. maybe three times. so i am still waiting for that epiphany. only problem. i have to listen to the bloody thing. and there is so much other good music out there to which i have to listen before. right now i am realky falling in love with the latest markus stockhausen (eternal voyage) which reminds me a lot of oregon in their best days.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, 23 August 2018 18:53 (four weeks ago) Permalink

It is boring ... but only if you want it to be!

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 19:36 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Really? I think I don't want it to be anything. Somehow to me it has not opened yet. Tell me what was the difference when you listened to it in the past and now. Where does the magic suddenly come from? I hear the natural beauty of "On Land" but "Music for Airports" to me just seems like a piece of generative music.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, 23 August 2018 20:00 (four weeks ago) Permalink

it's not nearly as boring as Thursday Afternoon, Neroli, or Reflection.

akm, Thursday, 23 August 2018 20:14 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I listened to The Pearl before bed last night, a favorite.

The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 August 2018 20:17 (four weeks ago) Permalink

xpost Hmm, good question. I think it's that starting (obviously) with 1/1 in the past has thrown off my listening. It's significantly longer than the other tracks, which makes it a together nut to crack, but for whatever reason this time, once I made it over the first, familiar plinking piano hump, the second half of the track revealed some new stuff to me, like the more traditional synth washes, which for whatever reason I never really glommed on to before. After that, the other three tracks were (for lack of a better phrase) easy listening, prettier and pretty simple, with their own beautiful synths and choral bits. I was able to get lost in the subtle melodies and textures as opposed to focusing on the austere almost chamber piece like nature of the whole thing (which of course is what Bang on a Can exploited so well).

I think "On Land" is a good thing to bring up, because I find that album, pretty as it is, much darker and more menacing (same with "Apollo," despite its blatant beauty), which in a way makes it more accessible. Or at least more overtly "interesting." His much later generative stuff, or even his asleep-at-the-DX7 stuff like Neroli and Thursday Afternoon, is more boring and invisible, sort of by design, I imagine, but both are firmly from his installation phase, with them devised explicitly as background support for visuals or other related concepts.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 20:28 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Thanks for the explanation. Actually I always thought the point of MfA was not to listen to it like you listen to more "normal" music like AGW for example. Instead it is just supposed to be an aural setting which originally was supposed to be played at the airport when you wait for your airplane to arrive or take off but which you actually do not hear consciously. So in a way your experience does not seem to be intended.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, 23 August 2018 20:45 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Apollo is easily top ten Eno. It's my go-to writing soundtrack.

The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 August 2018 20:47 (four weeks ago) Permalink

xpost I was half joking when I said his ambient albums are boring, but only if you want them to be. I don't think, especially of his formative ambient works, that any of them are meant to be strictly background. His conceptual breakthrough was indeed making listening optional. You can let them float around aimlessly in the background, like apparitions, and ignore them completely, or you can pay attention and embrace the compositional aspects of it, however incidental the composition may be. That's certainly true of the Harold Budd records. Obviously Budd has a more formal classical education, but at the same time those albums can work well as background, too, if you need them to be. Or want them to be.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 21:03 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I think the Harold Budd album "Plateaux of Mirrors" is totally different from MfA and has not a lot to do with ambient. It is not neutral or zen like ambient usually is. Already the warped, trembling piano sound has got this nostalgic quality (like Boards of Canada's analog synthesizer) music. And there is sentiment in form of melody in that music. It immediately touches me or something inside me. Whereas MfA seems like an exercise in music programming without the power of emotion which is intentional of course.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, 23 August 2018 21:25 (four weeks ago) Permalink

What do you think of Discreet Music?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 21:29 (four weeks ago) Permalink

it never clicked with me. only the pachelbel side did something to me but that has nothing to do with eno. i must admit that i haven't listened to it for more than thirty probably even 35 years. for me that album together with steve reich's drumming was the incarnation of minimal music. i had read about it and was intrigued. but in the end i was disappointed. especially phil glass turned out to be rubbish. always the same pattern, too nice sounding, very trite in the end.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, 23 August 2018 22:08 (four weeks ago) Permalink

It's been a while, but I recall years ago finding John Cage's book Silence very helpful in understanding this stuff. But in the end a lot of it is so conceptual that I agree the music can gets overrated. There are really no words that capture Another Green World, but at least the gist of the ambient records I think can be conveyed, even if it's just a matter of invoking its mushy New Age descendants.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 22:17 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Like - thinking out loud here - the sleeve notes and diagrams of some of those ambient albums are in a way as important as the music itself.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 August 2018 22:18 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Ambient music is food

brimstead, Thursday, 23 August 2018 23:32 (four weeks ago) Permalink

"Discreet Music" is awesome.

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 23 August 2018 23:36 (four weeks ago) Permalink

side a is my favorite eno and one of my favorite things, ever, really. it calms me and makes me feel warm. it colors my surroundings with love. it's a really important piece of sound for me.

brimstead, Thursday, 23 August 2018 23:43 (four weeks ago) Permalink

cosign on those last two posts

Karl Malone, Thursday, 23 August 2018 23:48 (four weeks ago) Permalink

(not disagreeing that ambient music is food, i just haven't tried it yet)

Karl Malone, Thursday, 23 August 2018 23:49 (four weeks ago) Permalink

When I say "Discreet Music" I mean Side 1, so cosign on those last three posts, including my own. FOur posts.

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 23 August 2018 23:50 (four weeks ago) Permalink

On a different note, and one I’ve debated discussing on ILM, how do people feel about this?

I was a huge Brian Eno fan in my early 20s and a kind friend in museum admin managed to get me tickets to a q&a session with him. After, I asked her if it was amazing to work with him and she told me no, that he’d slapped her on the ass during the walk through.

— Sarah Rebecca Kessler (@moveablejaw) August 5, 2018

I recognize it’s a secondhand allegation but I also don’t think the writer has much of a reason to make it up. I would hardly be surprised but certainly would be disappointed if it were true.

Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 24 August 2018 00:17 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Guys suck. A handy thing to remember.

The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 August 2018 00:18 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I've got most of Eno's albums and there's none that bores me. At the moment I'm listening to 'Drawn From Life' (with J Peter Schwalm) for the first time in ages, I like it much better than I remebered it was.
Always thought 'Airports' was amazing, but my absolute Eno ambient highlights are 'On Land' and the two with Harold Budd.

Valentijn, Friday, 24 August 2018 06:36 (four weeks ago) Permalink

His last couple have been surprisingly entrancing!

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 24 August 2018 11:36 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I would be neither surprised nor especially chagrined that Brian Eno slapped someone on the ass -- he seems like exactly the sort of person who would do that. Cheeky cheeky! Not that it's acceptable, but based on everything I have read about the man leads me to believe he spent decades being weird/inappropriate and overtly pervy. Now he is old and probably still slaps asses from time to time.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 24 August 2018 13:24 (four weeks ago) Permalink

i find this kind of speculation - which might have a certain degree of plausibility - about someone you do not know personally very problematic. additionally it does not add or subtract anything from the music.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 24 August 2018 13:48 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Maybe he wasn't slapping it, maybe he was "treating" it.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 24 August 2018 13:49 (four weeks ago) Permalink

i find this kind of speculation - which might have a certain degree of plausibility - about someone you do not know personally very problematic. additionally it does not add or subtract anything from the music.

Which is why I said I had some hesitation in even bringing it up. It’s literally a single tweet (with a few replies discussing said tweet) that I found because noted ILMer Ned Raggett retweeted it.

That said, I do think the subject is relevant, now especially. I would hate for the underlying suggestion to be true but Eno absolutely fits the profile of others who have turned up during #MeToo. As a wild, swinging star in the 70s who partook in wild sexual escapades (his Roxy groupie years and, IIRC, some stories with Fripp) and didn’t seem to fully subside even in his fifties (I’m thinking the diaries and stories of photoshopped asses here among other things), additional reports that he crossed some lines would be entirely unsurprising and in keeping with the behavior of a lot of men of his generation.

I love the man but it’s a shitty thing to be accused of and worthy of (some) discussion.

Additional tweets from that thread with Ned:

Can’t un-hear that in the music. And remember the feeling of naïveté at having thought he’d somehow not be a patriarch.

— Sarah Rebecca Kessler (@moveablejaw) August 5, 2018

Tfw you realize someone you respect and admire sees you as an object, and that that is the only capacity in which they can ‘admire’ you.

— Sarah Rebecca Kessler (@moveablejaw) August 5, 2018

Yeesh to that.

— Ned Raggett (@NedRaggett) August 5, 2018

Is this not now common knowledge in the music world? This was so long ago I assumed it would now be at least tacitly known he’s a sexiste

— Sarah Rebecca Kessler (@moveablejaw) August 5, 2018

I can't recall anything more detailed beyond claims he could be a bit of a lothario, but this could be more of a matter of what I was consciously noticing.

— Ned Raggett (@NedRaggett) August 5, 2018

Yeah, makes sense, I think that characterization often works to excuse unwanted advances (“he’s just handsy” etc.). Kill yr idols, right?

— Sarah Rebecca Kessler (@moveablejaw) August 5, 2018

Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 24 August 2018 14:16 (four weeks ago) Permalink

yeah i mean none of those sentiments expressed above are unfamiliar to me (as a woman and brian eno/music enthusiast). you would have to ignore everything you read about eno the man to think he was a gentle asexual ambient sprite. still, i don't see a lot of purpose in discussing it tbh.

additional reports that he crossed some lines would be entirely unsurprising and in keeping with the behavior of a lot of men of his generation.
as a woman who has interacted with men over the course of her life, this is otm

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 24 August 2018 15:18 (four weeks ago) Permalink

i know i said "as a woman" twice but i think it's worth repeating since we are in b/w text land

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 24 August 2018 15:18 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Weirdly, as a kind of sensation-chasing hedonist (tastes, smells, feels, etc.) he's reportedly kind of chaste on the substance front. Smoking and drinking, but by all accounts little in the way of drugs.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 24 August 2018 15:29 (four weeks ago) Permalink

one thing i'd like to know though. did someone already ask him in an interview about these accusations? and if yes how did he react?

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 24 August 2018 15:35 (four weeks ago) Permalink

how many times have men made this argument on the internet, alex

Karl Malone, Friday, 24 August 2018 15:41 (four weeks ago) Permalink

on the internet

Karl Malone, Friday, 24 August 2018 15:44 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Eno's perviness has been abundantly clear going as far back as that Chrissie Hynde interview in '74, that it would have inevitably crossed the boundary to outright harassment seems like a no-brainer.

Οὖτις, Friday, 24 August 2018 15:49 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I mean he exposes himself and shows her sex toys in that interview (she doesn't seem at all flummoxed by it - this is Chrissie Hynde after all - but at the very least it indicates that this was a guy more than happy to cross lines)

Οὖτις, Friday, 24 August 2018 15:51 (four weeks ago) Permalink

exactly ^^^

"claims that he could be a bit of a lothario" come directly from the man himself openly discussing his sexual exploits and preferences in many interviews over the years. not "claims", not "could", not "a bit". to be sort of blunt, he is a documented horndog. having no personal experience with brian eno in this regard, i wouldn't know this unless i had read it repeatedly over the years.

seems more productive to just that his reputation as a perv exists because he made it that way and move on.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 24 August 2018 15:52 (four weeks ago) Permalink

just *accept

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 24 August 2018 15:53 (four weeks ago) Permalink

So I have tried to relisten to "Discreet Music" for the 1st time after more than 30 years. It was a weird experience. The music was unbelievably familiar to me. I had forgotten that it was quite tuneful and easy to listen to. And I found it extremely relaxing and meditative. But after a while the usual happened. I got bored by the repetiveness, the motiv had consumed itself. After 12 minutes I could not continue to listen.It had become an ordeal like a zen meditation session where you sit in front of the wall and the limbs which you are not supposed to move for hours begin to ache. So I decided to stop it. And I do not think I will listen to DM again in the next 30 years. My fave ambient piece of Eno is still "Through Hollow Lands" from BaAS, it is wonderful looking at that lake where the water stands still. And it has exactly the length a piece like this should have (I think around 3-4 minutes) and not one second more. 31 minutes where one musical idea is trampled to death on the other hand does not interest me and seems like the work of a megalomaniac who does not give a shit about his audience.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 24 August 2018 21:26 (four weeks ago) Permalink

So I guess ambient music is not for you then.

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Friday, 24 August 2018 21:32 (four weeks ago) Permalink

nor meditation, I would guess

Οὖτις, Friday, 24 August 2018 21:33 (four weeks ago) Permalink

"through hollow lands" is really wonderful

really sad take on ambient music there, al

brimstead, Friday, 24 August 2018 21:41 (four weeks ago) Permalink

So I guess ambient music is not for you then.

Not true. It depends. I love "On Land" and "Plateaux of Mirror", I do not care for unimaginative, generative music. Of which Eno has made tons. Especially in the last 30 years.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 24 August 2018 21:56 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Except, “Discreet Music“ is anything but unimaginative.

True, there are some happy accidents there (he mistakenly played the finished tape at half speed to Fripp) and it is very much generative (so much so he apparently left the tape running while answering the phone and the like). But the way the lines unfold and overlap to create new melodies and variations is sublime and the tones themselves are evocative and deceptively complex (for evidence, read Tamm’s take on this, starting on page 30: ).

It’s fine if you don’t care for long generative stuff—much of Eno’s is hit or miss—and he can sometimes talk about it as if he’s the first person any of this ever occurred to. But don’t think for a second that a lot of work doesn’t go into these pieces – and nothing about this one says “I don’t give a shit about my audience.”

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 25 August 2018 01:47 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I don't like his generative music much either but "Discreet Music" somehow exists outside that, sometimes I think it's the best thing he ever did. So far.

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Saturday, 25 August 2018 06:27 (four weeks ago) Permalink

xpost Give the Music for Films comps another shot, then. They're more bite sized compositions, and have a lot in common with the ambient nuggets on AGW and BaAS.

It's interesting to me that generative or random music can resemble repetition. I mean, I still know exactly what you mean! That's why I always preferred stuff like Reich's Music for 18 Musicians, which is less conceptual and a lot more formalized. It's definitely repetitive, but when it shifts the movements can be quite dramatic. But I always find for that reason that it makes inferior background music, and sitting still listening to all the stuff shifting around for 45 minutes is hypnotic and beautiful but more of a commitment.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 25 August 2018 12:23 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Yes, Steve Reich definitely doesn't work as background music!

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Saturday, 25 August 2018 12:25 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I love the "Music for Films" album. Quite short, composed, impressionist pieces. I especially like the fact that those films which are described in the booklet do not exist. That makes the whole project even more charming.

I pretty much like Steve Reich's "Drumming". To spot those micro-shfts demands attentive listening and there is indeed a hypnotic quality. Compared to DM it is more physical, maybe another reason I prefer it. What I do not like at all is the combination of ambient non-rhythmic music with too much repetition. Repetition in rhythm if it is not perfect like in computer beats is fine with me.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Saturday, 25 August 2018 12:47 (four weeks ago) Permalink

What you need is some Autechre!

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 25 August 2018 13:17 (four weeks ago) Permalink

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