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Scenes / periods / micro-genres. Please use the following notations, and feel free to suggest your own:

"C" = concept, meaning you like the sound or direction of the scene even if the majority of its bands were terrible.

"O" = output, meaning that regardless of the scene's conceptual quality, you're impressed by the quality of the records themselves.

"S" = so sue me, meaning that you wouldn't necessarily argue for the critical quality of this scene, but find it charming anyway.

Nitsuh, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

You've probably already guessed:

1. Bossa nova, Rio 1964-68. (C,O) e.g. Jobim.
2. Early shoegazers, 1987-1993. e.g. Ride.(C)
3. Post-rock, Chicago 1994-1999. e.g. Gastr del Sol.(C,O)
4. D.C. indie, 1987-1993. (O) e.g. Unrest.
5. Scottish slop-rock, 1997-99. (S) e.g. Yatsura.

Boring? Yes. So you do better.

Nitsuh, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. Scandinavian rock of the 90's (O): Entombed, The Hellacopters, Turbonegro, Gluecifer, Mensen
2. late 70's / early 80's british Oi! (C,O,S): Sham 69, the Anti Nowhere League, the 4 Skins
3. late 60's/early 70's heavy metal (O): Sir Lord Baltimore, Budgie, Alice Cooper, Yes, Blue Cheer, Stooges, ELO "Live in Long Beach"
4. late 70s/early 80's bubblegum/snot punk (C,O): Angry Samoans, Eater, Plastic Bertrand, Liliput/Kleenex, "Killed By Death" type one-shots and no-hopes)
5. 90's sonic extremism (C,O,S): Neurosis, Merzbow, Dark Throne, Suppression, Marduk

Modern pop music is way too diverse to call a scene, but it would be number 1 by a longshot otherwise.

Kris, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Los Angeles 79-83 (O) Gun Club, Minutemen, 100 Flowers, Black Flag, Savage Republic, Red Kross, Rain Parade, Bangs, Dream Syndicate.

dan, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

post-punk, uk 1979-1983 (roughly - the bleed over is rampant): e.g. pil, wire, gang of four, pop group, the fall, young marble giants, birthday party, swell maps, joy division and on and on and on... (c, o.)

hardcore/jungle/drum and bass, uk 1990-1995: e.g. 4hero, acen, omni trio, foul play, 2 bad mice, prodigy, kaotic kemistry, shut up and dance, dj hype, leviticus, dead dred, ganja kru, shy fx, marvellous cain. (c, o, s.)

only two i can think of offhand. more to come.

jess, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. Detroit midsixties garage/soul/protopunk: temptations, supremes, mitch ryder, gino washington, pleasure seekers, stooges, mc5, bob seger system, ? & the mysterians (saginaw). (o)

2-3-4. Memphis blues, rockabilly & soul: Sun: howlin wolf, charlie feathers, elvis, roy orbison, johnny cash, carl perkins, roscoe gordon, charlie rich/ Stax: mg's, eddie floyd, rufus & carla thomas, otis redding, isaac hayes/ Hi records: ann peebles, al green, syl johnson. (c,o) 5. 60's french pop: francoise hardy, jane birkin, brigitte bardot, antoine, serge gainsbourg. (c, o)

fritz, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. Post-punk '78-'82: Joy Division, PiL, Comsat Angels, Gang of Four, Wire, Magazine.

2. Motown '64-'78: Four Tops, Temptations, Supremes, Vandellas, Leon Ware, Eddie Kendricks.

3. Stax '59-'75: Bar Kays, Otis Redding, Booker T & the MGs, Staple Singers, Sam & Dave, Chef.

4. Shoegaze '87-'93: Lush, Catherine Wheel, Ride, Kitchens of Distinction, Moose, Slowdive.

5. Art rock/wank '70s/'80s: Roxy Music, Brian Eno, David Bowie, John Cale, T. Rex, Manuel Gottsching.

Andy, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

(1) Germany, 1969-1975 (C, O) - An amazing blend of creativity, ambition, groove, a feeling of 'no boundaries,' and, at its best, a freedom that equals the best fire music. Oh yeah, and humor and charm to boot.

(2) Early British/Scottish post-rock (C, O) - Seefeel, Bark Psychosis, Disco Inferno, Talk Talk (I count this, I don't know how many other people do) - Again, a sense of wonder and amazement permeates this music, the strive to find new sounds, new ways to express.

(3) Early-90s West Coast hip-hop (O, S) - Del tha Funkee Homosapien, Souls of Mischief, Ras Kass, etc., etc., etc. - Yeah, so much of it is just battle rhymes, and the production might be a little cheesy, but I cut my teeth on this shit. I'll never not enjoy listening to Del's 'No Need for Alarm.'

Clarke B., Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

"Talk Talk (I count this, I don't know how many other people do)"

oddly enough i started to add an early post-rock thingee to it, which i listed talk talk as a definite adjunct.

so,

number 3 for jess:

early post-rock, uk 1989-1994: e.g. really starting with artists like a.r. kane, moving through "loveless" and "laughing stock," merging at some point with electronic/dance/sampling ideas, and then exploding for a brief, totally fecund period before being snuffed/snubbed as soon as musos in chicago discovered ry cooder and steve reich records.

jess, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

J Pop (c)
Alt Country (C,O)
Space Jazz (C)
60s French Pop (C,O)
Folk Revival (C,S)

anthony, Thursday, 20 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Post-punk - (c): us/uk/au/nz
Early Experimental and Vintage Electronica - (c/o):us/fr/uk
Brill Bldg Pop & 60's Northern Soul - (o): us/uk
Glam and early punk -(c): us/uk
Twee - (big s) - YES I SAID TWEE!

jason, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Most of these can be further sub-divided, but I can't bear to leave stuff out, so something like (not in any order):

1. Factory + related* 1978-84 (JD/NO, ACR, Section 25, Crispy Ambulance). [O,C]

*'Related' means that I include various non-Factory Manc. bands from the same era like Ludus and The Passage, as well as related labels like Disques Du Crepuscule and people working in a similar area like 23 Skiddoo)

2. British Psych-pop, beat-pop, mod-pop 1964-1968. (Small Faces, The Who, The Kinks, + lesser lights like The Attack, The Creation, The Eyes) [O,C]

3. Punk 1976-78 (Ramones, Saints, Clash, Pistols, Subway Sect....) [0,C]

4. Post-Punk 1978-82 (Slits, Au Pairs, Magazine....) [O]

5. Glam + related (Bowie, S. Harley, Reed, Eno, Roxy...)

6. would have been late 70's disco, 7 would be american garage-rock 1964-1968 and 8 would be Germany 1970s (Can, K'werk, Neu)......

Dr. C, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. LA Punk, 77-80. C squared. Germs, "Forming". Belinda Carlisle, "I Get Weak"
2. Post-psychedelic metal, the 70s schools that didn't sound like Zep Sab Purp, maximal guitarwank. O squared. Ranges from Tony Williams Lifetime to BOC to Grand Funk Railroad to Royal Trux.
3. Late-70s MOR, must have 10,000 session players, TV union local 'rock' backing, distinct from EZ listening and occasionally an air of 'trying to keep up'. C? O? S! Billy Joel, "Glass Houses", Streisand & Diamond "You Don't Bring Me Flowers", Bob Dylan "Slow Train Coming', Gino Vanelli 'Brother to Brother'.
4. Bhangra. This is a weird one for me. Usually I don't buy in terms of 'genres' at all, in fact I hate the term, I don't like the idea that somebody will market something to me thinking I'll like it because I liked something else. However, this is the exception - I'll just buy any and all of it, and haven't bothered to find out the names of any artists, tracks, scenes, etc. All I know is I like the sound of it, most of my collection is copies bought from car-boots or library sales at £1 each. The only time I've ever related to music in such a non-artist-specific way, except for maybe gabba. So, 'O' - couldn't tell you word one about the rest.
5. N'awlins gris-gris gumbo ya ya tourist trap music. (O) Dr. John, Tony Joe White, Meters, Longhair, Dorsey, Eyehategod. Except for Frankie Ford, push 'im overboard. (Prefer Robert Palmer).

dave q, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The Pop Group splinter bands/Bristol "Jazz" scene 1981 - Pigbag, Rip Rig & Panic, Maximum Joy, Diagram Brothers, Dislocation Dance, everybody else who used a sax or a trumpet on their Peel session that year (C,O,S)

Jeff W, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Pinski Zoo might fit Jeff's genre nicely, too.

Dr. C, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Nitsuh, this is a really well-structured question. It kicks ass.
And gives me a chance to air some skeletons for fun:

1. Late 70's contemporary fusion/soul-jazz like Grover Washington and late-including-post-Jaco Weather Report. [S, O]

2. Seamless, production-laborious jazz-rock, a la Al DiMeola or Steely Dan. [O]

3. M-BASE and other highly creative offshoots of free. Also includes Coleman's free funk concept and Kenton's progressive big band works. [C]

4. Late 70's smooth/plastic soul in the vein of Minnie Ripperton or The Spinners, also the politically-conscious era of Marvin Gaye (wow, I'm really going for broke here). [O]

Enough already before I go overboard. Spot the odd man out above!

matthew m., Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. Kraut: usual suspects (O)

2. Japanese avant-prog: Despite some dissing in another thread, I like the fact that these musicians aproach prog with an attitude more akin to punk -- chiefly in that nothing is acred, and they could give a rat's ass whether or not I think it's serious or not. Ruins, Koenjihyakkei, Altered States, Happy Family, Tipgraphica, Pugs, Demi Semi Quaver, etc. (C, O)

3. Capital's Ultra Lounge series: It's over. It's over. It's over. I love you. (S, O)

4. American roots music: Does anyone have a collection called the "Southern Journies" series, put together by Alan Lomax? Sort of like the real version of the music from O Brother Where Art Thou. (O)

5. Impressionists: So that's basically Debussy, maybe Ravel. They say it's a genre, but when the genre is 1 1/2 guys, it's a microgenre at best. (O)

dleone, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Should be "sacred" in #2.

dleone, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Scene centered around Some Bizarre Records, mid 80's -- Everyone on excellent "If You Can't Please Yourself You Can't Please Your Soul" compilation: Foetus, Marc Almond, Neubauten, Coil etc. Others by association-- Nick Cave, Swans, everyone interviewed in "Tape Delay" book.

RW, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. Art school pop 72-75. Roxy/Sparks/Stooges.

2. Art school pop 80-82. Human League/Soft Cell.

3. *Twisted* singer songwriters, any year but suppose peaked 69-73.e.g David Ackles/Nick Drake/Richard Thompson/Robert Wyatt.

4. Post punk 78-82. Joy Division/Durutti Column/XTC.

5. Disco/dance, any time in the past 30 years but high points for singles 77-80, 83/84, 88- 92.

Favourite period for music 90's/00's but no overriding theme dominates my listening now.

Billy Dods, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Is the shared aesthetic of ILM that everyone loves postpunk then?

i)late 70s/early 80s postpunk/no wave: Joy Division, Wire, PiL, Birthday Party, Bauhaus, Banshees, Swans, Lydia Lunch/Teenage Jesus & the Jerks, Sonic Youth, Neubauten (Can I add Branca?) (O)

ii)late 60s/early 70s cock rock: Iron Butterfly, Stooges, Zeppelin/Purple/Sabbath, Yes (C, O)

iii)60s New York minimalism: the whole La Monte Young/Theatre of Eternal Music scene (C)

iv)contemporary minimalist electronica: Ryoji Ikeda, Pan Sonic, Tactile, Immersion (C, most of what I know of O)

(What a modern Western question this is. The whole concept of scenes/periods/micro-genres is totally inapplicable to something like Karnatak music.)

sundar subramanian, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Am tempted just to say "what Sundar picked", but here's a few more -

1. Chain Reaction style 'Heroin House' [C = O] - Maurizio, Porter Ricks, Various Artists, Monolake, even Vladislav Delay.

2. Post-Punk 'Hardcore' - Black Flag, Minutemen, Saccahrine Trust, Swans, Sonic Youth, Bad Brains, Ut, DInosaur, Head of David, World Domination Enterprises, etc. etc.

3. 'Americana' - The Byrds, Dillard and Clark, Van Dyke Parks, Flying Burrito Bros, Beefheart, Millennium, Beach Boys, Dylan and The Band, even Big Star.

4. American 'Free Jazz' - Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor, John Coltrane, Albert Ayler, Pharoah Sanders, Sun Ra, Archie Shepp etc.

5. Guitar Individualists - Derek Bailey, Sonny Sharrock, John Fahey, Keiji Haino, Takayanagi, Thurston Moore and Lee Renaldo, Rudolph Grey, Jim O'Rourke, Fred Frith, Hans Reichel, Loren Mazzacane Connors etc.

Andrew L, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't do C's and S's...

1. Golden Age Of Hip-Hop, 1986-1989 (O) Run DMC, Public Enemy, De La Soul

2. Proper Jungle, 1994-1996 (O) too many to mention

3. Memphis Soul, 1966-1969 (O) that MG's sound

4. 2-step, 1998-2001 (O) because I'm living NOW

5. P-funk, 1970 - 1983 (O) Parliafunkadelicment

JoB, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The concept of glitch is so brilliant it makes my head spin.

"'Member when computers in music were the next big thing? Well, now their big. And they're Fucking Up."

Keiko, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1) Late 60s/Early 70s Bubblegum Factories: Kasenatz/Katz & Joey Levine/Neil Bogart--Buddah Records (1910 Fruitgum Co., Ohio Express, Lemon Pipers, etc.); Jeff Barry/Ron Dante/Andy Kim/Don Kirshner (Archies, Cufflinks) ; the many UK bands of Tony Burrows w/ songwriting by Tony Macaulay or Greenaway & Cook ( White Plains, Edison Lighthouse, Pipkins).

I just found out Albert Hammond, father of the Strokes guitarist, wrote the Pipkins "Gimme Dat Ding". Wow

2) Post Beach Boys/Mamas & Papas Vocal Pop, late 60s: Spanky & Our Gang, Fifth Dimension, Jim & Jeanne, Free Design, We Five, Millenium, Sagittarius, Cowsills, Sunshine Company, Harper's Bizarre, loads of no hit wonders.

Arthur, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. Detroit Techno: Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Derrick May, Number of Names, Cybotron, Eddie Flashin Fowlkes, Underground Resistance, Rich Hawtin, Kenny Larkin, Dan Bell, Rob Hood, Jeff Mills, Carl Craig, Detroit Escalator Company, John Beltran, Theorem, Deep Chord... 1981-present. (this could be split multiple times according to years.) CO

Also see Detroit Raves/Electronic Music Circa 1994-97. Before Drugs and fashion became the most important thing at a party. When a Detroit party was something people traveled 10 hours by car to go to because Detroit had the best scene in the midwest. It was all about the music, and people were there to jack. See Packard Plant, Zoots Coffeehouse, GI Forum, St. Andrews, The Green Room, The Zone, a million warehouses, and Motor's early days. That was back when there seemed like there was momentum in this city.

2. Berlin Minimal Dub/Basic Channel: Maurizio, Pole, Arovane, Burial Mix, Vainquer, Fluxion, Porter Ricks...1992-1999 P.S. fuck "heroin house" that is a term used by people who got to the party 5 years too late. Don't be mislead by Simon Reynolds'isms. CO

3. Tamala/Motown 1961-1972(1972, The year they left Detroit, and they started to lose their soul) CO

4. shoegazer/post-punk(yeah, me too...) CO

5. Michigan Space Rock: Monaural, Tomorrowland, Fuxa, Windy and Carl, 12 Second Dynasty, Auburn Lull, Mahogany... Southeastern Michigan 1992-1995. This scene was a big "S" Looking back the records were not all that great, but it represented a time of youth and innocence to me in my late teens. That whole scene was a lot of naive fun, before the business and scenesterism corrupted the pure beauty of music for me. SSS

6. Cologne Germany, 1997-2000. When the whole Kompakt/Profan/Kreisel/Klang minimal techno/house scene was at its creative peak. COS

Michael Taylor, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

fuck "heroin house" that is a term used by people who got to the party 5 years too late. Don't be mislead by Simon Reynolds'isms.

Erm, I 'got' the phrase 'Heroin House' from an old Forced Exposure mailing list and thought it was a) funny and b) quite accurate. But obviously Michael I will in future seek yr validation before dropping any more 'genres'. Howabout the phrase "Elitist Scenester Snob" - is that OK with you?

Andrew L, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. Krautrock [O, bit of C but that's mainly just because they're German, ah yes]: you know, those guys.
2. 80s Indie Fucking Schmindie [O, S]: Felt, Pastels, TVPs etc etc...
3. IDM/Glitch [O, C]: MoM, Pan Sonic, Kid606, Stock Hausen & Walkman...
4. Post-Punk/No Wave [O]: more on the Devo-esque side, though...
5. 1950s Film Electronica [O, C]: Louis & Bebe Barron, the elusive 'Synthetic Flesh'...

emil.y, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I guess I should make New York minimalism an O as well, especially if I drop the 60s part, since I do like the majority of it and the lamer stuff never gets as highly acclaimed (or as lame) as Electric Ladyland.

I'm still trying to pick out the 5th: 50s/60s textural music? 60s electroacoustic?

Devo is not no wave! Jeez! What would new wave be then?

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, but I don't mean to say 'that which is Devo', I was referring more to the stuff which is kind of like Devo... I was considering saying Synth Punk, but then that didn't fit because I wanted more of the skinny angular groups that fit into the Post-Punk/No Wave canons...

Does that make sense? Probably not, but y'know

emil.y, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

This is one of those good threads I can't really find a hook to contribute to. Hmm. Maybe everything post-shoegaze because it soothes my soul, but beyond that I want the world and I want it now.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 22 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Andrew L.

Just out of curiosity, how many of the "Heroin House" producers are actually involved in heroin? The answer is just none of the Hardwax crew are involved in junk.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0127/sotc.php

yet another example of why UK dance journalists and press have played the biggest role in wrecking dance music by dragging drugs into everything. I think using drug references to label dance music is just bad form, if for no other reason that it marginalizes the music.

I am a dance music snob, I see nothing wrong with that. If I hurt your feelings I must have said something that was on the money. Are you one of those people who got their BC/CR/BM/M tracks in the metal tins? ;)

Michael Taylor, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Michael - I know nothing abt the personal habits of German dance music producers. For all I know they might be kind to small puppies and old ladies, and more straight-edge than Fugazi. I wld say that 'Heroin House' v. accurately describes the muffled, womb-like, narcotic wooziness of the best Chain Reaction records - the rest is speculation... But if you think that drugs has nothing to do with dance music - or any kind of music, ever since Louis Armstrong smoked his first spliff - then you are living in fairyland. I feel a bit sorry for you if you've never experienced the sheer bliss of good drugs combined with dance music DELIBERATELY DESIGNED to stimulate/simulate the rush, the peak. It's a bit like only listening to one of yr speakers.

And no, my feelings could never be 'hurt' by someone who gives a flying fuck abt what format you bought a record in. Elitism and snobbery have done far more to 'marginalise' dance music than any amount of drug references; and besides, in the UK dance music IS the mainstream. It's only the anal collectors, clinging to their white labels and exclusive remixes, that still desperately want to keep it to themselves.

Andrew L, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

'Sheer bliss of good drugs..." Eh?
Now BAD drugs, I can understand.

dave q, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

andrew and michael,

isn't this indicative of a UK/US split, in which *as far as house/techno goes* drugs play a central role in britain, while in america, until recently at least, drugs haven't played so much of a role. at least as far as chicago/detroit goes, would doubt the same goes for new york.

as for the description, heroin house, i took it to be descriptive of the music rather than the habits of anyone in particular.

my maurizio is in a tin.

i will answer the 5ive genres question later.

off to buy claude young, momus, moodyman and josie and the pussycats now.

gareth, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Man, I fucking wish I had the money to buy all the Chain Reaction, Basic Channel, Burial Mix, M, Kompakt, etc etc etc on vinyl. Well, actually, I probably do -- but if I chose to buy all of that in its 'originally intended' format, I'd have a hell of a lot less jazz, soul, post-punk, whatever whatever whatever. And maybe I wouldn't have a car.

MI space rock-wise, you certainly couldn't affix an 'S' to the first Monaural 12".

Andy, Sunday, 23 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

back in the day, you did not have a choice. you had to buy the vinyl because Hardwax had not yet begun to issue their music on CD. The tins did not happen until Chain Reaction was up and running and a couple Burial Mix records had been released. When was that. late 96, early 97?

I have indulged in my fair share of controlled substances while dancing(although it was in my younger days.) From my perspective(and this is undoubtedly a Detroit predjudice,) people who associate drugs with music are generally considered ignorant and are to be looked down upon. It is an attitude that started in the 80's when Detroit had a serious crack problem, and the real cost of drug use in the inner-city reared it's head. Among many of the older Detroit producers and music community drugs are looked down upon, and that attitude still lingers to this day. The Music Institute did not even serve liquor.

as for Monaural, no doubt, but so many of those records have dated really badly. I still break out the Windy and Carl records occasionally.

mike taylor, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The people who got into them in 1997 are better than the people who got into them in 1992, though, cause they have 5 years extra musical perspective to bring to the records. This isn't a techno thing - someone buying Sgt Pepper now is better off than someone who bought it in 1967.

Tom, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

well, mike, thats what i mean really. that drugs/music situation just doesn't exist here in the UK, so anyone making that link here wouldn't be thought of that way. drugs are socially accepted in UK club culture, and, really, at a wider level too. this, perhaps, is why i have no problem with the Simon Reynolds type position, it is very similar to my own

grimble grumble? do they fit the michigan space rock thing?

gareth, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Sorry Tom I don't get that at all. I would have loved to have the opportunity to have heard Sgt Pepper the week it came out. I'd be able to approach it with fresh ears in the context it was released rather than having it filtered through 30 years worth of hagiography or villification. First time I listened to it I was rather disappointed as it wasn't as sonically extreme as I had imagined it would be. Of course in the time between first relase and me listening to it loads of people had picked up the baton and ran with it in innumerable ways.

Billy Dods, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Listeners are as affected by 'hagiography and vilification' as they choose to be.

dave q, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Okay, Mike -- damn! You got me. :)

I'll admit it; my intro to Porter Ricks and Maurizio were those Macro Dub compilations from '96/'97, which most purists probably view as the equivalent of '70s K-Tel corporate rock comps. Eardrum = Robin Trower, right?

You were late to the party on those Robert Johnson 78s, and I'm assuming most of us here were. Does that mean our interest in him is somehow less valid?

Andy, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

No. Your reaction is no less valid than someone who was listening to it the day it was released. I'd bet that it would be different though, whether or not that is in a positive or negative way depends upon the listeners experiences. I'm sure if I was listening to Robert Johnson in 1938 I would find it alien, disconcerting and shockingly other. It still sounds that way but I can't listen to it without being aware of it's context in 20c pop music.
You might be able to ignore the 30 years plus commentary on Sgt Pepper but you can't ignore the 30 years plus music which followed after it which will impact on your perception of it. Plus with Sgt Pepper it's not just the music, it's everything else which is happening culturally and socially which would add to the experience. I don't think I'd be so interested in listening to say DDBM&T when it came out. I'm sure soemthing like Oxide and Neutrino will sound different in 5 years time as 2 step is replaced by other genres.
Anyway in the grand scheme of things 5 years is nowt - though I suppose in dance music that's several lifetimes.

Billy Dods, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

context changes everything, and i don't see how it is possible to avoid context.

gareth, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

By building your own, better context?

dave q, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

and this shuts out the outside world how exactly?

gareth, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Keeps it in perspective.

dave q, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I find "Heroin House" to be a lot less misleading than "Minimal Dub", which a) as stylistic description always struck me as clutching at straws slightly, and b) is only really accurate about half the time. That said, no term is going to easily fit such a consciously inarticulate/inarticulable style of music.

Tim, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

1. Bubblegum - Late 60's to early 70's: all the Kasenetz-Katz stuff, Archies, Boyce & Hart, Andy Kim , etc.(C,O,S) 2. Glam Bubblegum (basically the chinnichap stuff): The Sweet, Suzi Quatro, Mud, Bay City Rollers kind of... (S) 3. Mod Revival - 1978-1980 or so: The Jam (obviosuly), Chords, Lambrettas, Secret Affair, etc. (O) 4. 60's softpop: Claudine Longet, The Sandpipers, The Association, I guess the Free Design fit in here, etc. (C,O) 5. The current spate of retro new-wave/casio indiepop: Shelflife Records, Matinee Records, March Records, Darla, Drive-In, BBPTC, etc. I can't remember all the band names, but it doesn't matter too much...(O,S) 6. El Records of course (C)

TC, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

sorry for not using HTML tags...

g, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

seven months pass...
Ha! I bought my first BC/CR/etc. tin last year when I was out looking for wagons to hop onto! Since then I've even accumulated a few more. The *thought* of someone buying a Maurizio tin in 200fucking2 is incredible, huh? Well, as the Detroiters say, I've gotta know my history...

Clarke B., Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

seeing this thread in new answers made me think of a few more. everyone else pleez add too, as i find this thread fascinating (except the c.r. debate):

ohio-proto-punk, 1968-78: inspired by mark s' posting the "those were diff'rent times" essay-link to nylpm. starting with the velvets residency in 68, running through the tombs, electric eels "cyclotron/agitated" 7", etc., and probably climaxing with early ubu (around, say, dub housing.) (O, but also especially C.)
early 90s political hardcore/proto-emo, 1988-1994: the hated, anything tonie joy was involved in (moss icon, universal order of armageddon), gravity records (clikitat ikatowi, antioch arrow), born against, rorschach, man is the bastard, los crudos (and satellite units like huggy bear, unwound, nation of ulysses.) (S, but especially C. i can't bear to listen to many of these records now.)

jess, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...
revive! i still really like this thread.

1. lost generation/post-rock (UK division) - C,O
2. UK garage 1997-2001 - C,O
3. hardcore/jungle/d&b 1990-1997 - C,O
4. post-punk blah blah - c,o
5. metal - o,s

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 24 April 2003 04:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I like this thread, too. Here are my highly opinionated five.

1. Early Britpop, before Coldplay broke out; in other words, back when it was still under the heavy influence of David Bowie instead of Radiohead. Not like there's anything wrong with Radiohead, but there is something wrong with Chris Martin, the wanker.

Pulp, Suede, Manic Street Preachers. (C,O)

2. Trip-hop, before people started calling it "downtempo", and it became too attached to lite-house frippery, and lost all sense of texture beyond fluffy lounge compilation fodder.

Massive Attack, Portishead, Tricky. (C,0)

3. Shoegaze; I don't know quite enough about all of the bands in this genre to make categorical determinations, BUT what I've heard, I love.

Ride, Slowdive, My Bloody Valentine. (C,O)

4. Synth pop, the 80s leg, not the current and dubious revival, but the dark, depthful stuff that I got teased in high school for listening to. In other words, I'm not altogether interested in whatever they're doing in Brooklyn right now.

New Order, Depeche Mode, Gary Numan. (C,O)

5. Bleak and cerebral post-punk of the late 70s/early 80s variety. White-boy music that makes you want to shake your ass and cower in an airtight fallout shelter. Simultaneously. While wearing a denim jacket with Che Guevara pins on it.

Cabaret Voltaire, Gang of Four, Shriekback. (C, 0)

justin s., Thursday, 24 April 2003 05:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Merseybeat/British Beat 63-66
Symphonic Rock (not prog in general - just symphonic rock) 70-77
New Romantics heyday 81-84
"Twee" English psychedelia 67-68
Britpop 93-97

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:00 (seventeen years ago) link

All of my choices, btw, are O while I couldn't care less about the other criteria.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:06 (seventeen years ago) link

1) lox-style generic generic thug mcs and crews (1997-current) (c,o, s)
2) m and f vocals gloopy rnb/teen pop (1998-current) (c, o)
3) overproduced nu metal and especially 'rap' rock, synthy, preferably with beats (1997-current) (c,o)
4) sparkly build-y pop-house anthems (some crossover with number two if you count remixes!!) (1985-current) (o)
5) the beatnuts (1992-1999) (o, s)


trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:29 (seventeen years ago) link

haha the nuts wanted so bad to get into the first category but never broke through!!

trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:32 (seventeen years ago) link

6) mid 80s 'romo' synth pop (1979-1990) (o, s)
7) exxxtreme gabba (1996-2001) (c, o, s)
8) disco (1969-1983) (c, o)
9) mtv crossover big beat (1996-2000) (o)
10) emotionally manipulative idm (1991-2002) (s)

trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:36 (seventeen years ago) link

11) 2step/mc garage (2000-current) (c,o,s)
12) typical early 90s hiphop bullshit (1989-1994) (o,s)
13) cratedigger skewed 60s70s sunny jazz/funk/soul (1965-1980) (o,s)
14) e6 (1995-2000) (biggest and most conditional fuckin SO SUE ME ever)
15) pop-dancehall (1995-current)

trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:44 (seventeen years ago) link

that last one is (c,o) of course

trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:45 (seventeen years ago) link

1. Pop (80s onwards) (CO)
2. Punk 'n' No Wave ( mostly US - 70s)(CO)
3. Northern Soul (hah!)(S)
4.Indie po(o)p'n'rawk (80s-90s)(CO)
5.Trip Hop (90s)(CO)

nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:51 (seventeen years ago) link

haha right on nath ok mine is now just

1) pop (1300-current) (c,o,s)

trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:54 (seventeen years ago) link

I dunno, I should have just said: 1. Crap music (S)

nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:56 (seventeen years ago) link

one year passes...
I'm surprised I don't remember ever seeing this thread before.

RS, Thursday, 13 January 2005 17:20 (fifteen years ago) link

Late 80's/early 90's (?) Kuwaiti pop with male vocalists singing in falseto. (S)

RS, Thursday, 13 January 2005 17:24 (fifteen years ago) link

1. 40's and 50's Kansas City. C and O and Big Joe Turner and pretty much every Rock and Roller at the time.
2. '77 - '84 Athens Georgia. COS Any scene that could produce the first b52's record, Pylon, Oh OK and Chronic Town is Ok by me even if the concept is enh. But American influenced dance punk is a good concept.
3. Australia. O.
4.60's Stax. CO
5 Late 60's early 70's Band-Dylan-Upstate NY. CO They sound like the Catskills.

danh (danh), Thursday, 13 January 2005 17:39 (fifteen years ago) link


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