Latin Music Newbie Seeks Albums

Larry Harlow isn't really a personal favorite. I have Salsa, which is considered one of his best albums. It mixes horns with charanga instrumentation (violin,flute, and tres, I think--anyway, this has tres). I listened to it again recently and there is a fair amount going on. I just don't generally like the charanga sound and I really don't like the style of the chorus. I like the main vocals, performed by Junior Gonzalez.

I am interested in buying Larry Harlow's Hommy, a salsa "opera". (Tommy-->Hommy. Get it?) It also has a string section on it. It sounds a little scarey, but it's something I have to hear. Celia Cruz appears in it, and it was actually gave her career a boost. (Things slumped a little after she left Cuba and before she started recording a lot with the FANIA crowd.) The other Harlow album I want to buy is his Tribute to Arsenio Rodriguez (who is one of the main figures considered to be the "father of salsa"). I heard a song from this album a week or two ago and liked it a lot.

I don't have that much FANIA All Stars as a group. I tend to prefer their work under their own individual names (even if these projects were usually very collaborative, so that major singers would be singing in the coro on other singers' albums).

Check out the archives of rec.music.afro-latin. You can search the archives using Google Groups.

Also: This thread.

x-post, thanks Ned. There are a few others here who should add something as well.

The truth is, Salsa! is the only full Harlow album I've heard so far, so I'm not at all sure that I don't like him.

I can vouch for Hector Lavoe: The FANIA "Legends of Salsa" Collection, vol. 1, though it's a 2-disc affair, and might be too big a risk for someone just checking things out.

Haikunym gets annoyed at the use of "Latin music" to narrowly refer to salsa (and sometimes a few related genres), and he does have a point. So if you want to avoid offending him, and anyone else who might be offended, you could refer to salsa; or if you want to be more inclusive "Afro-Latin music*"; or if you don't mind looking like a pretentious ass, "Afro-Antillan." (Spanish Antilles = Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic, I think, which covers the origins of salsa and the other forms that most commonly appear beside it like cha cha cha, merengue and bachata.)

*This is tricky, because there is also Afro-Colombian and Afro-Peruvian music which doesn't have much to do with salsa, but as far as I'm concerned, there aren't any Afro-Latin forms that originated in, say, Mexico or Argentina. Cumbia is an import from Colombia, and the cumbia that has caught on outside Colombia has smoothed out a lot of the African elements in it. (I can back this up with a scholarly source if needed.)

. . .A retrospective of classics 1960s and 1970s New York salsa can be envisioned as a beast with three heads: one in the experimental vein led by Eddie Palmieri and Willie Colon; a second, "heavy" one in the Arsenio-Chappotin vein, led by Larry Harlow and Ray Barretto; and a third in the lighter Matancera style, led by Johnny Pacheco and Celia Cruz, that at times appeared to overpower the others. . . .

Puerto Rico, in turn, had its own schools, growing out of the combined influence of Cortijo and also the Sonora Matancera [originally Cuban, of course]. The most famous group, El Gran Combo de Puerto Rico, was founded in 1862 by members of Cortijo's original combo after Rafael Cortijo and his lead vocalist, Ismael Rivera, were incarcerated for drug possession. El Gran Combo carried Cortijo's legacy into the 1960s and 1970s, even after Cortijo and Rivera formed salsa bands of their own. Puerto Rico's other principal band, the Sonora Poncena, was founded in the 1950s. Originally modeled on Cuba's Sonora Matancera, the Poncena underwent several transitions and by the mid-1970s emerged with a style that retained the bright trumpets of its Cuban model but was fused with the heavy sound of the Arsenio school and the dynamic delivery of the Cortijo school. . .

So far I seem to like the approaches of Willie Colon, Palmieri, El Gran Combo, Sonora Matancers; while not like Johnny Pacheco's sound very much. I'm still not sure what I think of Harlow and Barretto. Barretto's particular version of jazziness (in his salsa, mind you) somehow doesn't appeal to me.

Also wanted to mention what I have said elsewhere: Nascente, in the UK, puts out a lot of quality FANIA reissues, sometimes with better remastering than those coming directly from FANIA. Don't be afraid to buy them just because they aren't under the FANIA imprint. They are less expensive and sometimes betters sounding.

http://www.ralphmercadopresents.com/images/pictures/fania_2001/msg.jpg

(This was of course well after their legendary 70's era.)

Descarga can be a little pricier than some other distributors, but on the other hand they handle a massive number of labels, and they are at least quasi-educational.

Here's what I just ordered for myself:

Henry Fiol -- Guapería. 2002. (I am not familiar with him, but he has a good reputation, and I sort of know his son, Orlando, who plays in the Philadelphia area and is very talented, with interests outside Latin music as well.)

Melcochita -- The First Family Of Salsa - Lita Branda & Melcochita. 2003. (I have heard a few Melcochita songs that I know. He has kind of an odd style, but I like it. Some of it makes more sense now that I know he is also a comedian.)

Juanito Márquez Y Su Combo -- Arrímate Pa' Cá. 2003 reissue. (60's Cuban music mixing rock and country elements. I am very curious.)

Los Soneros Del Barrio -- Siguiendo La Tradicion. 2003. (Old school salsa, mostly or entirely covers of older songs. I have heard some of this on the radio and it's been good. This album has some of the same personnel as the Spanish Harlem Orchestra, but it seems to have less of a "this is real salsa, the way it's supposed to be--try some, it's good for you" feel of that album, which somehow lacked the energy of the older classics.)

(Some of what you mention is more boogaloo/Latin soul than what Stevie was asking about, not that he wouldn't necessarily like that.)

WPFW 89.3 in Washington D.C. has a a "classic salsa" show on Friday nights(US eastern time at 9 p.m.) that I think is also available online. The host, Jim Byers, plays lots of old vinyl.

And I never do that.

Seek many, many excellent comps on Soul Jazz.

Just wanted to clear that up.

and if we're slamming
ethnic musicks for their traits
let's try salsa first

He's admitted his own ignorance about it and it all sounds samey to him:

and yeah, I should learn more about cuban-derived musics before I get all anti-snobby about it. just because the latin grammys and the estefan braintrust are helping everyone ignore the s.american stuff I love doesn't mean I should talk shit. cuban musics all sound samey to me, but that might be my fault, not theirs.

He's also admitted to bitterness about what her perceives as the greater attention given to what I call Afro-Antillan music vs. other parts of Latin America:

and yeah, as you know, I have an entirely unearned chip on my shoulder about the whole Cuba/D.R./Puerto Rico vs. Mexico/Colombia/S.A. dichotomy.

So these things have led me to believe that he does not like salsa, though he has not exactly come out directly and said that. Based on the first quote here (somewhat hard to decipher whether left in context or not), it does seem that, if he likes it at all, he likes it a whole lot less than other Latin American music.

This is pretty funny too, because the Latin Grammys and the Estefan braintrust are also helping everyone ignore what's new in Cuban music (which doesn't especially interest me), and large stretches of salsa. I don't know too many informed fans of salsa who are particularly enthusiastic about the Latin Grammys.

That's about all I can think of.

There have been a lot of similar pacakges coming out, new useful compilations, like one for Tipic 73 and one for Willie Colon's collaborations with Celia Cruz.

I can't comment on the content, since I am largely unfamiliar, although I do recognize and like the song "Arsenio"

I'm going to say either: Hector Lavoe: The FANIA "Legends of Salsa" Collection, vol. 1 (a 2-CD collection, but very good), or Willie Colon and Hector Lavoe: El Juicio, or Willie Colon and Ruben Blades: Siembra. Basically any of the collections of work by individual Fania artsists, put out on the Nascente label, are probably worth getting (and they tend to be reasonably priced).

Did you like any particular singer or song on the CD you have?

Speaking of salsa (sorta), I just got Grupo Folklorico's Concepts in Unity in the mail. Anything else that good?

[Misunderstanding edited out]. . .I finally tracked down a copy of it on CD. It had been recommended to me, and the recommender did not lie. I don't know much about the NYC Latin scene, but I'm curious.

This can give you some ideas. (If you click on the links for titles, there are usually more detailed descriptions.) Concepts in Unity was included in this "Classic Salsa" package when I got it a few years ago. I like the first two songs, or maybe the first half in general, best, but it's not entirely my style, overall. If you like Grupo Folklorico type stuff, I don't want to make recommendations that lead you away from that.

Fania (under whatever company owns it these days) has been putting out a lots of good single artist collections lately, so any of those would probably be worth looking into. I think you'd like Tipica 73, actually. You might want to get the recent compilation of their work, or Salsa Encendida.

New York salsa veteran, Henry Fiol works with a small ensemble featuring guitar (or tres or cuatro, or whatever it is), going for more of a Cuban country sound (but with a Puerto Rican slant), rather than a big band sound, so you might like his work. He has kind of an odd voice though.

rockist, if you get a chance, check the new mars volta disk - is *very* salsa in places, and larry harlow guests on a number of tracks/'movements'...

i love la lupe and alcione (got one album of hers). am going to get some celia cruz. are there any other latin songstresses i shd seek out? i like stuff like the fania allstars etc but id like to get stuff thats more song-based. any ideas knowledgeable ilx hivemind? male singers would be good too.

Lydia Mendoza? She's more trad folky, but so good!!

I just want to point out that just about everyone who was in the Fania All Stars put out solo work which was much more song-oriented than the Fania All Stars. (Actually, there are plenty of good songs there, they just did a lot of jamming with those songs.) Salsa tends to be pretty male-dominated, and generally speaking I'd say more good female vocalists emerge in Cuba than in Puerto Rico or other countries associated with salsa as such.

Older Cuban singer, Celina Gonzalez:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHEE72KqJ5g

One of the great Cuban boleristas, though not a performer I've dug into much, Olga Guillot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu95ECRM1e8

Puerto Rican bolero singer-songwriter (probably better known as a songwriter though) I'm interested in learning more about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z5OU03AviU

Somehow limited as a vocalist in a way I can't explain (though I like her a lot), and best known for her work with La Sonora Poncena, Yolanda Rivera. She's well past her prime, however:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBFm-__ZP8

Current Cuban-American, more jazz-oriented to my ears (but not in terms of going off on crazy digressions), at least on her studio recordings, Xiomara Laugart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjG3dydgPJM

There are some strong female vocalists in Cuba now, but they tend to perform in styles of music I don't care for. Worth checking out though, the following emerged within the 90s timba scene, as far as I know:

Haila Mompie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H290lZREJ1Q
Vania Borges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_B-UnzZVE

Okay these live clips are probably a bad idea since they are less song-oriented, but if you were to go for the studio recordings by the same artists they would be tighter.

Olga Guillot was hilarious in the La Lupe doc!

Unfortunately, I haven't seen it. Not sure how that happened.

Oh it's pretty good. Lots of open ends though...her assistant is super evasive about drug use etc.

Can you single out any female cumbia vocalists? There are a bunch that I have liked, but I don't know any by name off-hand. I could read some liner notes and pull a name or two out, but that wouldn't be too meaningful. Cumbia seems really under-documented in English.

I'll have to do sone digging, but I'll see! I remember one but forget the name of the combo.

Sorry some digging. Posting from zing.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure Haila and Vania have been the most popular living female vocalists in Cuba for a while now.

Haila reminds me of a lot of other recent Cuban vocalists in that I find myself saying she's a really good vocalist, but somehow I like almost none of her songs. Same thing with Isaac Delgado, who just seems like a good singer, but never really does anything for me. Maybe if I could send her back in time to work with a good Puerto Rican band from the late 70s or early 80s I would like some of her songs.

I guess in Cuba they are not exposed to some of the Puerto Rican sounds from that era

And while Delgado defected, he seems to be wrestling more with fitting into a Latin pop world

I guess in Cuba they are not exposed to some of the Puerto Rican sounds from that era

Oh, they're familiar with them, and it's probably too late to revive all that anyway. I was talking time-capsule fantasy anyway.

Delgado has done better commercially than some (most?) Cuban defectors in popular music. He actually seems to like salsa so it hasn't been difficult for him to put out material that gets played in mainstream salsa clubs (that don't mess with timba).

any good stuff from Mexico?? i've enjoyed Mano Negra and Manu Chao a bunch but I'm looking for something more 'out there'

i'm surprised i really have almost nothing in Spanish

Jaguares?
I really think more people would like Bomba Estereo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZXlgNMDK3E

My favorite recent thing (and one of my favorite things overall) from Mexico is tribal guarachero, especially DJ Erick Rincon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IoXKOKFjsE

Peruvian,Brazilian,Mexican,Gua­temalan,Costa Rican,Argentinian,Russians,Egy­ptians, all one humans!!

Amen.

re La lacehra's post, Bomba Estereo are amazing amazing live, the albums and videos really give no sense of the energy that they produce, think i babbled on some thread here abt how great they are in performance