defend the indefensible: Hall and Oates

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I like them, if only in an American Psycho / sterile yuppie kinda way. I mean, "Rich Girl" is a great song, no?

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:53 (eighteen years ago) link

The biggest selling double act of all time, and the 3rd biggest selling act of the 80s. Also, they were fucking great.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:55 (eighteen years ago) link

there is nothing "indefensible" about hall and oates. "i can't go for that" is a funky ass song.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Theres alot of Hall and Oates love here and rightly so.

jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:58 (eighteen years ago) link

One of the first bands I was ever consciously into as opposed to knowing a song on the radio without knowing anything about the person who created it (like Numan's "Cars," which I enjoyed without having any thought about the guy who made it). When I first started listening to radio intensively in 1981/82 they were all over the top 40 AM station I tuned into and it was all grand, and "Maneater" the following year has something of the same minimal creep vibe of "Billie Jean" -- jauntier if you will, nowhere near as brilliantly focused and paranoid, but still it understates rather than overstates. Got the next couple of albums after that, including the pretty damn great first hits comp Rock and Soul Volume 1 (which wisely, I realize in retrospect, left off "Family Man") and saw them live in 1984 with my dad, who was also a fan. It was loud, a bit over the top, and great. Even liked Hall's "Dreamtime" solo single and somehow bought Ooh Yeah! in 1988 (and then ignored it). Whether or not I need to play them again I don't know but they beat the heck out of Phil Collins if we're going to use the opening question as a comparison point...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:59 (eighteen years ago) link

"I Can't Go For That" is surely one of the best kamikaze DJ set drops of all time?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:00 (eighteen years ago) link

what the hell?

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:01 (eighteen years ago) link

the only objective measure of a bands greatness is whether they can make me dance. hall and oates can make me dance. therefore they are great.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Like, the fighter jet is the DJ's reputation, the American warship is public opinion, and the explosion is the dancefloor reaction.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:03 (eighteen years ago) link

No one seems to like to mention "She's Gone" or "Sara Smile," maybe because they are too obvious, but I think they are fantastic. If you are looking for a defense with elaborate arguments and so forth, I can't be bothered.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah i love to hear "I Can't go.." when im out - it happens all too rarely.

jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:04 (eighteen years ago) link

"Adult Education" fuckin' rocks. There's nothing wrong with Hall & Oates, apart from John Oates' mustache.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:04 (eighteen years ago) link

but what would hall and oates be without it?

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:05 (eighteen years ago) link

but what would hall and oates be without it?

Two guys on a reunion tour.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:07 (eighteen years ago) link

"Kiss Is On My List" has such great enunciation of the words.

"blowing my bliss"

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Not indefensible at all -- immaculately-crafted pop-soul, great arranging, singing and writing. "I Can't Go For That" is infectious and magical.

Moustache-less John Oates is like Kiss without make-up -- yeah, I know it's done, but 'tain't the same.

Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Daryl Hall's solo album Sacred Songs has some pleasingly weird bits.

Douglas (Douglas), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:09 (eighteen years ago) link

i really like that album too.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:10 (eighteen years ago) link

No one seems to like to mention "She's Gone" or "Sara Smile," maybe because they are too obvious, but I think they are fantastic.

I missed the earlier seventies hits when growing up, so I only got to hear them in retrospect -- but both songs are indeed mighty fine, the latter is if I remember a tribute to the underrated Sara Allen, who collaborated with them both on many songs and who passed away some years back (or so I thought, but I keep reading it was her sister and fellow H/O collaborator Janna Allen?).

"I Can't Go For That" is infectious and magical.

Uh, someone DID mention De La Soul by now, yeah?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:12 (eighteen years ago) link

and family man and maneater of course.

jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:14 (eighteen years ago) link

dear lord the first few bars of 'I Can't Go For That' are musical manna and i am moses. i heard a fantastic remix of it at this now legendary night

stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I once had the opportunity to spend several hours with Robert Fripp and we spoke about his production on Sacred Songs. He couldn't say enough about how Hall could sing anything with equal feeling and accuracy. Strangely, he even mentioned that he had inquired into forming a King Crimson lineup built around Daryl.
Of course, I didn't need to hear it from Fripp to know that Daryl can sing his ass of.

By the way, am I allowed to praise Daryl Hall?

bahtology, Friday, 2 January 2004 01:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Cant go is used to great effect on the first eskimo mix cd too.

jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:18 (eighteen years ago) link

"I Can't Go For That" is surely one of the best kamikaze DJ set drops of all time?

i have taken to pressing pause when the 'where does it stop - ' line drops - FEAR ME

stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:19 (eighteen years ago) link

The Avalanches did a great 2 Many DJsish mix where "I Can't Go For That" is mixed with Daft Punk's "Oh Yeah" to *brilliant* effect.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't remember how "I Can't Go For That" goes, but I'm 99% sure I like it.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:23 (eighteen years ago) link

"You got the body, now you want my soul" *keyboard part*

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:23 (eighteen years ago) link

dont even think about it, say no go!

jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:24 (eighteen years ago) link

"I'll do anythiiiiiiiiiiing...that you want me toooooo do, yeah" (set to slowly descending chord, glam/soul melancholia)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:25 (eighteen years ago) link

The Avalanches did a great 2 Many DJsish mix where "I Can't Go For That" is mixed with Daft Punk's "Oh Yeah" to *brilliant* effect.

yep, i have copied it on more than one occasion! (not live tho)

stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Which is fair enough because in the same mix they copy the Kurtis Rush Missy/George Michael bootleg. I also love whatever it is they do to "One Minute Man" in that set - it's marvellous! (apologies for thread derailment)

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Their War Babies album is one of the fine neglected glam pop LPs of the 70s.

Yoda Ono, Friday, 2 January 2004 01:35 (eighteen years ago) link

to be fair Tim they probably just played the Kurtis boot as a record (it did come out on vinyl) and then mixed it with the wicked Indian stuff and whatnot

stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Hall & Oates have been a favorite of mine for a long time. I'm partial to "Out Of Touch," which came out a few months too late to make "Rock and Soul, Vol. 1." "Did It In A Minute" is a quality forgotten single from '82. On the other hand, John Oates does lose points for titling his '03 solo album "Phunk Shui."

John Fredland (jfredland), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Uhmmm, oh I know! They're not indefinsible at all, as evidenced by several threads on them in which many an ILMer sang their praise.


Sorry, I just really don't like the concept of this thread.

David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 2 January 2004 04:01 (eighteen years ago) link

"Say It Isn't So" is as slick as Wesson and as cool and sexy as Jean-Paul Belmondo rubbing his lips in Breathless.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 2 January 2004 04:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Daryll Hall is one of the best blue-eyed soul singers of all time.
No one has mentioned "One on one" which I consider their finest hour.

Jim Janse, Friday, 2 January 2004 05:42 (eighteen years ago) link

holy moley i had no idea about the extent of the Hall & Oates love on ILM! wow i feel much better.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 2 January 2004 05:45 (eighteen years ago) link

"now say no go" - weird, this came up on the iPod as soon as I clicked on this thread!

scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 2 January 2004 06:05 (eighteen years ago) link

But like the flame that burns the candle
The candle feeds the flame...you make-a my dreams come true.
Killa!

Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Friday, 2 January 2004 08:48 (eighteen years ago) link

But I do truely hate Maneater. Sorry ;(

Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Friday, 2 January 2004 08:50 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm QUITE sure that this topic has been discussed before, and that we ALWAYS decide that H&O were mostly classic.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 2 January 2004 09:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I actually bought an H&O best of purely cos ILM kept going on about them and I've only played it once - I think I still resent so many people preferring them to Wham! on the TS thread so I think they're too rockist or something. But "Kiss On Your List" and "I Can't Go For That" are gorgeous yes.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 2 January 2004 12:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't mind people hating "Maneter," since I do as well.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 2 January 2004 13:19 (eighteen years ago) link

The Avalanches did a great 2 Many DJsish mix where "I Can't Go For That" is mixed with Daft Punk's "Oh Yeah" to *brilliant* effect.

There has to be a thread somewhere about the two breezeblock sets that The Avalanches did. They weren't consistent throughout in quality, but they really did have some moments of genius that I find myself skipping to.

mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 2 January 2004 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link

"Family Man" was good too.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 2 January 2004 15:54 (eighteen years ago) link

M-E-T-H-O-D-O-F-L-O-V-E

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 January 2004 15:59 (eighteen years ago) link

i always wondered if Method Man had/should've sampled that

stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 16:13 (eighteen years ago) link

He lifted the hook in the song "M.E.T.H.O.D. Man" on the first record.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 2 January 2004 16:14 (eighteen years ago) link

haha, i guess i should've heard that by now


anyone remember the Hall & Oates as council workers (or something) sketches on Big Train?

stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 16:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess the big '80 stuff, like Out of Touch, came much later. I wonder if any reviews circa the early '80s stuff mentioned how spare and stripped down, let alone "new wave," it was compared to their lusher '70s stuff? Pretty clearly between the sound and the advent of MTV they were suddenly attracting younger kids, but was there an older contingent of their fan base that sniffed at the new sound?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 August 2021 15:44 (one year ago) link

I haven't heard any of the full albums from 1975 to 1979, and I'd like to hear the change in style they went through in that era. The other records I've heard all have interesting deep tracks. I like the non-singles on Voices more than the hits.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 13 August 2021 15:50 (one year ago) link

A deeply transitional phase -- desperate, they played every style, experimented with producers. Along the Red Ledge is one of their more consistent albums.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 13 August 2021 15:52 (one year ago) link

The Lou Reed thread reminds me that, promoting War Babies, they opened for him on the Sally Can't Dance tour! Probably the two acts at their greatest stylistic proximity.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 13 August 2021 16:05 (one year ago) link

I kind of assumed they worked with Rundgren because he was a fellow Philly guy.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 August 2021 16:15 (one year ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAWOboDuYkI

The prophet 5 rules

calstars, Friday, 13 August 2021 16:33 (one year ago) link

it's probably redundant to the contents of this primary thread, but here's a somewhat neglected thread specifically on their wilderness period: OK, You ILXor Hall & Oates Lovin' Motherfuckers, Tell Me All About Their Relatively Obscure 1977-1979 Releases

I Am Fribbulus (Xax) (Doctor Casino), Friday, 13 August 2021 16:43 (one year ago) link

also, forgot to note this when i watched it, but recent indie/stoner Groundhog Day-inspired comedy Palm Springs makes excellent use of "When the Morning Comes," off Abandoned Luncheonette.

I Am Fribbulus (Xax) (Doctor Casino), Friday, 13 August 2021 16:47 (one year ago) link

I would put up Side 1 of Voices against any side of any new wave/power pop record anywhere.

Captain Beefart (PBKR), Friday, 13 August 2021 17:00 (one year ago) link

And most of H&O.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 13 August 2021 17:04 (one year ago) link

My X-Static jam is a disco adult contemporary number called "Who Said the World Was Fair."

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 13 August 2021 17:06 (one year ago) link

Are they still the biggest-selling duo of all-time? I guess the '80s were a gold rush in selling records, but it's still surprising to me that they'd sell more records than, say, Simon & Garfunkel.

― birdistheword

I would have thought Daft Punk or Outkast would have outsold them but no.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 13 August 2021 19:32 (one year ago) link

“Out of Touch” is surely one of my top 20 songs of the 80’s, if I ever made such a list.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, August 12, 2021 2:55 PM

you're cool. can we be friends?

(i have an unofficial playlist in my head titled "put on any of these songs at any time and austin will dance like a foole" and 'out of touch' is on it. other selections include 'close to me' by the cure, 'spottieottiedopaliscious' by outkast, 'say it loud i'm black and i'm proud' by james brown, 'take five' by dave brubeck, and so and so forth. classic material and whatnot.)

things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Friday, 13 August 2021 21:08 (one year ago) link

I love all of those songs. We shall dance together as fools!

✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 13 August 2021 22:35 (one year ago) link

"M.E.T.H.O.D.O.F.L.O.V.E. ..." I've had this stuck in my head for decades.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 August 2021 22:38 (one year ago) link

both of those songs totally rule

brimstead, Friday, 13 August 2021 23:48 (one year ago) link

The senior with the junior miss
I wonder what the junior wishes
That she could graduate to adult
Kisses

covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 14 August 2021 00:08 (one year ago) link

some outlets get hall, others get oates: https://www.gq.com/story/john-oates-hall-and-oates-interview

mookieproof, Saturday, 14 August 2021 00:22 (one year ago) link

Norris and Dell’Abate

calstars, Saturday, 14 August 2021 01:13 (one year ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/3xlXvds.png

With Joey ramone, 1983

calstars, Saturday, 14 August 2021 01:14 (one year ago) link

came in to wonder if along the red ledge didn't get its permission from nite flights -- tho if so the timing is very tite tight (walker bros release is july 78, H&O is aug)

mark s, Saturday, 14 August 2021 10:38 (one year ago) link

xxpost lol

So, "Maneater" was 1982, "Tell Her About It" was 1983, "Part Time Lover" was ... 1985? Three very similar but very different takes on the same sort of Motown groove. Looks like Phil's "fuck it, let's just record the song again" "Can't Hurry Love" was released as a single less than a month after "Maneater." (FWIW, "Big Chill" soundtrack was released almost exactly a year after "Maneater.") Early '80s was Motown crazy.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 14 August 2021 13:45 (one year ago) link

Boomers getting moist-eyed for the LBJ years.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 14 August 2021 13:46 (one year ago) link

I suppose "Modern Love" can get slotted in there somewhere too.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 14 August 2021 13:48 (one year ago) link

"Modern Love" doesn't sound Motown-indebted to my ears. Adjacent maybe? And it's far from nostalgic.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 14 August 2021 13:50 (one year ago) link

Yeah, it's too ... modern.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 14 August 2021 14:00 (one year ago) link

"Town Called Malice" by the Jam was earlier than all of these other pastiches.

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 14 August 2021 14:28 (one year ago) link

Yeah, earlier the same year, right? 1982? But of course the Jam like a lot of UK acts were directly keyed in to the Northern Soul/mod stuff, so it's very on-brand. And of course "Get Happy!" was riffing on that world a few years before *that*. Either way, to my ears both less overtly nostalgic than the Motown worship stuff to come.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 14 August 2021 15:07 (one year ago) link

I thought British or blue-eyed soul was an ongoing tradition, like further back than even Dusty in Memphis and passing through popular albums like Bowie's Young Americans?

birdistheword, Saturday, 14 August 2021 16:20 (one year ago) link

Although neither Dusty in Memphis and Young Americans were exactly retro, they were playing in/with contemporary Black styles.

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 14 August 2021 17:21 (one year ago) link

...and Daryl doesn't like you using the term "blue-eyed soul", better watch out.

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 14 August 2021 17:23 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

I know _Sacred Songs_, that is a nice one. I always wished Fripp released an all-Hall _Exposure_ as he originally planned, but he did do a great job of turning a drawback into an advantage with the new vocalists he recruited.


Agree Fripp made the most of Tommy Mottola refusing to let Hall sing more than two tracks. But it’s worth noting that all the Hall vocals were released on the latest reissue of Exposure that’s available on Spotify.

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 11 December 2021 14:07 (nine months ago) link

two months pass...

When and why did they add the "Daryl" and "John" to their bandname? Egotism? A silly decision if you ask me: "Hall And Oates" rolls off the tongue so much more easily. (But at least "Daryl Hall And John Oates" is still much better in every way than "England Dan and John Ford Coley"!)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, July 26, 2004 2:15 AM

https://i.ibb.co/hM66tcd/Screenshot-20220218-110244-120.png

enochroot, Friday, 18 February 2022 16:13 (seven months ago) link

five months pass...

.@realdarylhall and @JohnOates would like this legend to know that he has been seen. 🕵🏼🕵🏻‍♂️ pic.twitter.com/1x9pf0Czcr

— Daryl Hall & John Oates (@halloates) July 18, 2022

mark s, Monday, 18 July 2022 18:02 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaJT1_-Fyac

Spottie, Thursday, 15 September 2022 05:51 (two weeks ago) link

That excellent video reminds me that when I interviewed Daryl 20 years ago and asked him if H&O had any wild times with drugs BITD, he replied "Man, have you seen my haircuts and the clothes I wore in the 80s??"

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Thursday, 15 September 2022 08:52 (two weeks ago) link

LOL. Yeah, he almost has a "Coked Up Werewolf" look going there.

birdistheword, Thursday, 15 September 2022 14:38 (two weeks ago) link

another deep cut ive been playing a ton lately
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MWrvIzlEy0

Spottie, Thursday, 15 September 2022 16:59 (two weeks ago) link

^Ooh yeah!

brimstead, Thursday, 15 September 2022 18:01 (two weeks ago) link

seven forty five.. quarter to eight, time to get up!

brimstead, Thursday, 15 September 2022 18:02 (two weeks ago) link

Good song. A Hall-Oates co-write too.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 15 September 2022 18:03 (two weeks ago) link

seven forty five.. quarter to eight, time to get up!

― brimstead, Thursday, September 15, 2022 11:02 AM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah love how they carried the theme all the way through to wake-up lol

Spottie, Thursday, 15 September 2022 18:28 (two weeks ago) link

I can easily pick 20 artists I like more, but none of them are as decade-defining as H&O. They pretty much define the sound of the 80’s for me.

I immediately dismiss any best singles of the 80’s list that doesn’t feature at least one track of them.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 16 September 2022 06:35 (two weeks ago) link

two weeks pass...

Joining their list of great album tracks that could have been singles is "Bank On Your Love" from '84's Big Bam Boom. Between the plate-tectonic drums and Hutchence-style yelps that end phrases, it sounds like what would have happened if a record label begged a Shabooh Shoobah-era INXS to write their own version of "Out Of Touch" (hell, I can totally picture Garry Gary Beers leaping from offscreen right as the bass comes in at the 0:24 mark).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y29o-iSjKu0

Front-loaded albums are musical gerrymandering (Prefecture), Saturday, 1 October 2022 23:36 (four days ago) link

I'm also fond of this late-imperial-phase track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxKSJJkble8

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 1 October 2022 23:46 (four days ago) link

I just posted that one a couple weeks ago

Spottie, Sunday, 2 October 2022 17:59 (three days ago) link

I really dig that entire album, tbh

brimstead, Monday, 3 October 2022 01:50 (two days ago) link

Same. Timing mattered: if they'd released it a year later, it would've been an artifact. As it stands BBB still sounds like a fresh synthesis of electro, early hip-hop, and H&0's soul stylings.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2022 01:56 (two days ago) link

I referred to BBB obv.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2022 01:56 (two days ago) link


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