― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 04:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Wednesday, 20 November 2002 08:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
― keith (keithmcl), Thursday, 21 November 2002 03:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
destroy: the movie clippings on the soundtrack album they did and 'a century of elvis'
belle and sebastian are easily one of my favorite groups ever... their first two albums in particular always get a lot of play time...
great live show, also... although the atmosphere was strangely affected as i saw them on 9/11/2001...
― ko hsüan, Thursday, 21 November 2002 03:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
But I do take some strange pleasure in "Legal Man" and I like "La Pastie de la Bourgeoisie"
― Aaron A., Thursday, 21 November 2002 04:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― keith (keithmcl), Thursday, 21 November 2002 05:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
?!? At least you didn't say it was "Jonathan David," but still...
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 November 2002 06:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
i thought it was a great show but it took me a while to remember that... a couple months actually.
― gygax!, Thursday, 21 November 2002 06:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
And I'm ready to say that recent B & S (Dear Catastrophe Waitress and the Books and Cuckoo EPs) are the best things they've done yet.
― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 27 November 2005 10:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 27 November 2005 11:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 27 November 2005 12:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― the bellefox, Sunday, 27 November 2005 13:26 (eighteen years ago) link
B&S are damned by the (not 100% inaccurate) received opinion that all their fans are cardigan/hairslide/pop-socks/tortoise-shell specs/etc - it seems the band quietly allowed this perception to flourish, since they realised pretty early on that becoming the figureheads of a subculture - however derided that subculture may be by "mainstream" society - can only be good for sales and reach.
But the band themselves? They may *look* twee in a Bunty 70s teen fashion kinda way, but they seldom *sound* twee. As stated above, they're way more Northern Soul than Sarah.
― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Sunday, 27 November 2005 15:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 27 November 2005 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link
This might actually be the problem.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 November 2005 17:06 (eighteen years ago) link
Hmmm, I guess I just outed myself . . . I hope we can still be friends, Ned. : )
― D. Bachyrycz, Sunday, 27 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 November 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link
DESTROY: all their boring slow songs, "Lord Anthony", "Asleep on a Sunbeam", "Lazy Line Painter Jane", "You Made Me Forget My Dreams", every single one of their album titles but especially Fold Your Hands Child, You Walk Like a Peasant
― Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 27 November 2005 17:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Sunday, 27 November 2005 17:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― THIS IS THE SOUND OF ALTERN 8 !!! (noodle vague), Sunday, 27 November 2005 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 27 November 2005 19:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 27 November 2005 19:23 (eighteen years ago) link
In short, I would love to hear some of their songs tackled by voices that don't inspire playground-bully fantasies.
And now, of course, an obligatory dig at the fans: people who like B&S strike me as a more self-conscious subset of people who like RENT.
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 27 November 2005 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link
i gotta say they were never the same after isobel left. (this may just be a coincidence)
― koogs (koogs), Sunday, 27 November 2005 20:59 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't get all this anti-twee stuff. If I think about it, I think that the twee connection is something I like about B&S, on the whole.
But these things are contingent, and personal.
― the bellefox, Sunday, 27 November 2005 21:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― tremendoid (tremendoid), Sunday, 27 November 2005 21:52 (eighteen years ago) link
Am I alone in thinking that Dear Catastrophe Waitress just towers over every other album they've yet made?
― Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 27 November 2005 22:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― the bellefox, Sunday, 27 November 2005 22:31 (eighteen years ago) link
(xpost)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 27 November 2005 22:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 27 November 2005 22:46 (eighteen years ago) link
hahaha! this is my default shower song!
also I'd like to defend Fox In The Snow and Lord Anthony.
There isn't really a bad song on IYFS. Well, maybe The Boy Done Wrong Again, but it's not a BAD song.
― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 27 November 2005 23:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 28 November 2005 00:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― jed_ (jed), Monday, 28 November 2005 00:48 (eighteen years ago) link
Destroy: Everything else, the smug fuckwits.
― Sasha (sgh), Monday, 28 November 2005 00:53 (eighteen years ago) link
xpost to myself.
― jed_ (jed), Monday, 28 November 2005 00:58 (eighteen years ago) link
the original question is a chilling one, brrr.
― etc, Monday, 28 November 2005 01:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub, Monday, 28 November 2005 01:19 (eighteen years ago) link
Seriously, what else is there?
― Mr. Snrub, Monday, 28 November 2005 01:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Monday, 28 November 2005 01:22 (eighteen years ago) link
It rather reminds me of all the black-clad, multiply-pierced clove-smokers who'll swear on a stack of Bauhaus records that they're not g*ths. Denial's not just a river in Egypt, it would seem.
― acb (acb), Monday, 28 November 2005 11:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 28 November 2005 11:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 28 November 2005 11:47 (eighteen years ago) link
Search 'The State That I Am In'Destroy 'Beyond The Sunrise'.
But also destroy 'Storytelling' while you're there.
― Buffalo Stan (Buffalo Stan), Monday, 28 November 2005 11:49 (eighteen years ago) link
Listening again to DEAR CATASTROPHE WAITRESS - some of it is probably the kind of thing that's improved by a decent hi-fi (which I now have), seems to have more point this way. But 'Asleep On A Sunbeam', my goodness, that is BAD and lame by any lights.
― the pinefox, Saturday, 26 July 2008 15:15 (fifteen years ago) link
DCW IIRC is OK but has two songs that suck beyond belief - namely the title-track and "If You Find Yourself Caught In Love"
"Seeing Other People" is a fkn brilliant song, on the other hand.
― Just got offed, Saturday, 26 July 2008 15:23 (fifteen years ago) link
I like 'Caught In Love', and don't find anything wrong with the title track
― the pinefox, Saturday, 26 July 2008 15:27 (fifteen years ago) link
We disagree. Hurrah!
― Just got offed, Saturday, 26 July 2008 15:28 (fifteen years ago) link
No bad tracks on DCW. Oh, apart from "Lord Anthony" of course.
― DavidM, Saturday, 26 July 2008 15:30 (fifteen years ago) link
I liked that one!
― Just got offed, Saturday, 26 July 2008 15:31 (fifteen years ago) link
I quite like it too. This LP seems oddly divisive.
― the pinefox, Saturday, 26 July 2008 15:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Legal Man and Jonathan David are quite guid.
― Piedie Gimbel, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 14:56 (ten months ago) link
Agree with devvine, and re 'Jonathan David'.
Also 'chick factor' quite possibly Jackson's best song of all.
I confirm my view that the best of HUMAN PROBLEMS is
Best FriendsWe Were BeautifulToo Many TearsA Plague On Other BoysI'll Be Your Pilot
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:05 (ten months ago) link
I'm fond of 'The Wrong Girl' without loving it. I think the arrangements are the best thing about it - something true of what is, overall, a pretty ordinary album.
Love:Too Much LoveThe ModelWomen's Realm
Like: The Wrong GirlI Fought in A WarDon't Leave the Light OnThe Chalet Lines
Eh:The rest
― (picnic, lightning) very very frightening (Chinaski), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:19 (ten months ago) link
As for Stevie songs, I'd put 'Seymour Stein' in the top tier and also like 'Chickfactor' and 'Jonathan David'.
― (picnic, lightning) very very frightening (Chinaski), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:20 (ten months ago) link
these are all top 30 b&s:Woman's RealmFamily TreeThere's Too Much LoveI Fought In A WarThe ModelDon't Leave The Light On, Baby
― devvvine, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 15:41 (ten months ago) link
I find the out of tune intro to The Wrong Girl just makes me immediately skip.Only top 30 B&S track on the LP for me is Woman's Realm, and even that's not top 20.
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:21 (ten months ago) link
Don't like Women's Realm much - bit of a plodding indie-disco retread of past glories
Top tier:I Fought in a WarThe ModelWaiting for the Moon to RiseDon't Leave the Light on BabyThere's Too Much Love
LovelyFamily Tree
OKThe Wrong GirlNice Day for a SulkWomen's Realm
No thanksBeyond the SunriseThe Chalet Lines
― Alba, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:34 (ten months ago) link
Agree with Alba! Good calls, Alba.
But this is the 4th B&S LP, from 23 years ago - basically it's very good.
Finding the gold on HUMAN PROBLEMS - that's harder.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:41 (ten months ago) link
A top 10 B&S since, what ... 2010? That would be a tougher task. There is a fair amount of good material but it's scattered around and lots of us haven't even heard every song.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:43 (ten months ago) link
Human Problems is probably their weakest release so far, it's true. But Play For Today and I Didn't See It Coming are both top tier tracks for me, and both are post 2010 (well IDSIC is 2020 but that counts surely?)
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 16:56 (ten months ago) link
Unsure that HUMAN PROBLEMS is worse than A BIT OF PREVIOUS, fwiw.
Agree that 'I didn't see it coming' is #1 in this era.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:06 (ten months ago) link
Pinefox Top 10 B&S since 2010:
I didn't see it comingwrite about loveread the blessed pagesnobody's empirethe cat with the creamwe were beautifulbest friendsdo it for your countryunnecessary dramaworking boy in new york city
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:08 (ten months ago) link
no Play For Today? just love how that builds and builds to something incredible at the end
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:25 (ten months ago) link
No, not very keen on it. But I feel that I have never really managed to get the measure of the second half of that LP. And I have played it a lot!
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:26 (ten months ago) link
(fwiw I think I prefer the Cure song of that name.)
that's also one of my favourite cure songs
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:28 (ten months ago) link
also a fan of the tv series
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:29 (ten months ago) link
cat with the cream really is wonderful
― devvvine, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:30 (ten months ago) link
Yes great TV series for sure! :D
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:33 (ten months ago) link
devvvine: 'cat with the cream' is a really unusual song, quite mysterious, quite slow burning, a complex construction, and even in its lyric its meanings seem ambiguous. But I think it may be the most ambitious, accomplished and stimulating work on that LP.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:34 (ten months ago) link
Still, I see B&S as Murdoch’s band, and its decline runs parallel with Murdoch’s retreat from Glasgow’s hipster community into staid domestic stability.
― enochroot, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 17:59 (ten months ago) link
xp indeed, a very promising road absolutely not taken from what i've heard from the last few records
― devvvine, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 18:02 (ten months ago) link
Enochroot's top 10 B&S songs since 2010:
A Bit of PreviousJuliet NakedWorking Boy in New York CityUnnecessary DramaI Want The World To StopPlay For TodayDo It For Your CountryNobody's EmpireEvery Day's A Lesson in HumilityI'll Be Your Pilot
― enochroot, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 18:07 (ten months ago) link
I tried to come up with a top 10 since 2010, but I could only manage 7 tracks (which gives a good idea of when I lost interest, though I still torrent each new release).
Born to ActLittle Lou, Ugly Jack, Prophet JohnSunday’s Pretty IconsI Want the World to StopThe Ghost of RockschoolEnter Sylvia PlathPlay for Today
― Melomane, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 18:25 (ten months ago) link
"Come On Sister" (ctrl-f: 0 results) is not only one of their best post-2010 but I'd slot it comfortably in their all-time top 10.
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 18:30 (ten months ago) link
I don't even know some of those.
And I don't think I knew there was a song called 'a bit of previous' !
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 18:32 (ten months ago) link
The quality of their releases also correlates with who they chose to put on the cover of the album/EP: friends >>> models >>> fans
It correlates with their cover art in general. In 2014 I read one of those DIY articles "How to hang vinyl records on your wall" and I hung up all of B&S’s albums and most of their EPs. Visitors to my home loved it. But then Girls in Peacetime came out and there was no way I was going to display that shit.
― Melomane, Wednesday, 19 July 2023 18:36 (ten months ago) link
I thought the last two LP covers were a slight step up in quality.some classic era singles and EPs have crap covers - Dog On Wheels, I'm Waking Up To Us, Jonathan David
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 19 July 2023 19:42 (ten months ago) link
Not sure I agree with the view that B&S cover art has declined.
Is WRITE ABOUT LOVE much worse than SINISTER? Both are nice.
Unlike poster Camaraderie, I find that DOG ON WHEELS has a magnificent cover - perhaps the most charming in their career.
But then TBWTAS itself has a cover that has always put me off, an ugly picture that says little about the contents and is only redeemed by the deep green cover.
And I'm not sure that the FOLD YOUR HANDS cover is better than THE LIFE PURSUIT.
Maybe more recent 'display the fans' is poor but then LATE DEVELOPERS (which I've never seen in reality) feels like an ep cover from 20+ years earlier.
Overall I think the covers have maintained quite a lot of continuity while also all looking different from each other (due to the colours).
― the pinefox, Thursday, 20 July 2023 06:59 (ten months ago) link
A point that in Sinister List days would have been massively discussed and now maybe never has been:
'If They're Shooting At You' deliberately reuses the melody and chords of the bridge of 'Poor Boy' for its bridge or maybe pre-chorus.
It's a rare case of a songwriter flagrantly repeating the same musical material and presumably feeling it was OK do so. Maybe because few remember 'Poor Boy' anyway.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 20 July 2023 14:43 (ten months ago) link