Hip Hop taken to new levels.

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Most of the "artsy" hip hop I've collected over the years tends towards the whole bohemian sound, with jazzy arrangements for a live backing band and beat influenced vocal inflection.

But I've become compelled by the idea of experimental hip hop. I expect that a surge of really experimental rap would cause a backlash worse than the anti-prog backlash of the late seventies, but I really can care less about purity aesthetics. I just want to hear something new or innovative in the genre. I feel the genre is being held back by conservatism within the movement. This can change.

Some examples:

1. Extended songs, with long organic instrumental sections and lyrics focused on the abstract or taken from already existing source material (say a book of nineteenth or twentieth century poetry) . Or even emphasis on melodic lines, provided by sample or live musician.

2. Groups that sample 20th century avant garde music, anything from 12 tone, concrete, free jazz, proto-industrial, kraut, whatever, rather than from traditional jazz, rock, or p-funk. Even projects using extensive found sounds would be cool.

3. Unusal or experimental vocal intonation and phrasing. Or vocal lines processed electronically with more than just a vocoder.

4. Hip hop with heavy use of non-western influences and sounds (African, Indian, Asian) or peripheral western sounds. And not just a programmed beep vaguely rooted in a non-western scale.

So, are there any outfits or artists you can point me to?

James


James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:36 (seventeen years ago) link

i beieve the reason you haven't found any of this so far is because you were mistakenly looking for rock records.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:39 (seventeen years ago) link

happy to clear that up.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Stockhausen had mad beetz y0.

Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Nice.

Crosspost.

Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Have you guys heard the Kayne West Remix of Ionization by Varese?

Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:43 (seventeen years ago) link

No, you see, I own thousands of rock records in gazillions of genres and they don't have the basic hip hop premise. So no, rock is not the solution.

James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:44 (seventeen years ago) link

perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of "the rump" and why it needs to be "backed up".

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:45 (seventeen years ago) link

"basic hip hop premise" = sort of defeated by some of the things you are suggesting, no?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:45 (seventeen years ago) link

GET YOUR FILTHY EXPERIMENTATION OUT OF MY HEAD-BOB RAPPITY STUFF

nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:46 (seventeen years ago) link

At the risk of getting made fun of by everybody, the Aesop Rock album might float yer boat.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I hear Raymond Scott is producing the new Old Dirty Bastard album...

Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Rapped vocals, extensive use of samples, non-rock instrumentation, heavy back beat, droning looped basslines, and yes, soul. If it doesn't have those features then it's not what I'm looking for.

James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:48 (seventeen years ago) link

so, like, you want hip-hop then?

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Righto, but with the addition of the features I listed in my original post. It's really not that hard of a concept to appreciate.

James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Amazingly, that's what it looked like he wanted in the first post

(just weird hip-hop)
(nothing mentioned about not wanting to shake his rump neither)
(I mean you can fuckin' dance to Hawkwind)

nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, but it shouldn't SOUND like hip hop!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't get #2 at all

geeta (geeta), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (seventeen years ago) link

actually it is!!

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (seventeen years ago) link

we are your chilrren

jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:51 (seventeen years ago) link

There is nothing I hate more than instruments in my hip hop....whatever progressive is, it is the opposite of it.

ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 03:52 (seventeen years ago) link

#1 sounds like the hip hop version of Iron Maiden's "Rime of the Ancient Mariner".

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Ok, this is useless. If you don't want to be helpful, don't bother chiming in. Thanks to those of you who actually offer suggestions.

James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link

http://nihilistdisco.matterwave.net/images/Sch1.gif

Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link

WHICH would be GREAT I must add, but somehow unlikely.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link

James.
You are asking for whiter hip hop.
Admit it.

ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link

It's not an either/or world. No genre is simply antithetical to everything else.

James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:55 (seventeen years ago) link

You are asking for whiter hip hop.
Admit it.

Because instruments are white!

Oh wait...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Pierre's Got Da Funk.
http://nihilistdisco.matterwave.net/images/Sch8.gif

Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I guess Alice Coltrane is whiter too.

James

James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:56 (seventeen years ago) link

GRM/IRCAM PRESENTS: WE INVENTED THE REMIX

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Are you hip to the Anticon scene? Sounds like their type of stuff.

o. nate (onate), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Because instruments are white!

Oh wait...

That's not even clever...where's that sense of humor?

ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 03:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Seriously though, unless you actually know the hip hop history, which it sounds like you don't, I'd wait to listen to "prog" hip hop.

ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 03:58 (seventeen years ago) link

alvin lucier 'i am sitting in a room' = TOTALLY hiphop!!

other than that i dunno

stockhausen wd be a horrible mc (though funny admittedly)

geeta (geeta), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Dalek?

D Aziz (esquire1983), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Ned OTM

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh give me a break.
Dilute, my friends, dilute.

ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:06 (seventeen years ago) link

There's too much FUN in hip hop. I want my brain to hurt.

ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:06 (seventeen years ago) link

The twisted part is that some people actually like challenging their brains.

o. nate (onate), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:08 (seventeen years ago) link

"I Can" by Nas presents a much-needed alternative to the wilfully ignorant bling bling culture prevalent in rap today, offering as it does an intelligent look into the failings of the American dream, an American dream ironically set up by the very same middle class white kids purchasing hip hop in the suburbs today.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Middle class white kids set up something?!?! Where?!?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Middle class white kids have set us up the bomb.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Fuck, that reminds me, I missed Viva La Bam

nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:10 (seventeen years ago) link

The twisted part is that some people actually like challenging their brains.

This was Rush's argument too. And Genesis. And Yes.

LeRoi Jones - Blue People

Read it motherfuckers.

ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:11 (seventeen years ago) link

i must have missed something, is there any particular reason very few people seem to want to answer the question seriously?

the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Huh?!? It may not be 4:09 here, Dom, but I'm not sure that sentence makes sense regardless of one's time zone.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Ahhhhh.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Gimme a book report on Blues People, Ned. Word.

buzza, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 10:39 (nine years ago) link

we can probably close this thread now that kanye has taken hip hop to new levels

ciderpress, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 15:18 (nine years ago) link

gershy i was 20

lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 15:46 (nine years ago) link

"If arguing with Geir is like punching Jello, arguing with ddrake is like punching stinky Jello that complains about your sense of humor as well and then gets bitter and hides."

scott seward, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 16:04 (nine years ago) link

OH NO HE DINT

scott seward, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 16:04 (nine years ago) link

stay classy my hongro:

James may just give up at once. If you are looking for good and actually musically sophisticated hip-hop, then that is not going to happen. And the responses in this thread show why. Hip-hop are doomed to stay shit forever, because the hip-hop audience has got this sick idea that musical sophistication is "white" (=bad).

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, November 17, 2003 8:49 PM (7 years ago)

scott seward, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 16:10 (nine years ago) link

Geir Hongro is Bill O'Reilly.

I can take a youtube that's seldom seen, flip it, now it's a meme (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 16:20 (nine years ago) link

lol deej, i never read this thread until last night

buzza, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 19:42 (nine years ago) link

huh I had never read that Amiri Baraka WTC poem before. kinda sad.

assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 19:52 (nine years ago) link

three weeks pass...

holy shit this thread

ilxor, Saturday, 22 January 2011 04:39 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

The trend for normally sensible critics to give accolades to crappy mainstream rap albums continues, with Jay-Z, UGK, Ghostface Killah and Kanye West topping lists. You'd think from them that hip-hop has stopped evoloving and is curled up waiting to die. And please stop encouraging Lil' Wayne. Hitting one clever lyrical turn for every ten raps does not equal brilliance. Soon the market will be flooded by amateur tapes of rappers throwing every rhyme that falls off the top of their heads with no self editing whatsoever, because they know those white critics will eat anything up. Kanye West isn't totally horrible, as he always manages a couple decent singles. But if you actually listen to what else is out there, there's really no excuse. Artists like Dälek, El-P, Aesop Rock, Shape of Broad Minds, Oh No, Busdriver and Cloud Cult are actually pushing the art of hip-hop to new horizons, chipping away at the untapped vast potential for sounds. Oh No dug into Lebanese, Italian and Greek psych rock, and it's only the tip of the iceberg. Pharoahe Monch, Brother Ali, Black Milk and Little Brother showed it's still possible to make accessible hip-hop that's still powerful and relevant. Saul Williams, well, he's like that crazy uncle who freestyles at the family picnics. He's a little embarrassing, but still he speaks the truth.

if you feeling frogbs, leap (The Reverend), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 04:23 (eight years ago) link

ahah great thread

sisilafami, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 12:08 (eight years ago) link

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan I am into some backpacker shit and I TRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIED being one of those dudes back in 2006 and after about 5 minutes of listening to albums made by dudes who shop at Whole Foods and rap about the filthiness of tap water I just longed for some ig'nant ass hip hop.

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 12:13 (eight years ago) link

and what o_O examples for whatever writer that was to use! man Jay-Z can't spit at ALL, can he?

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 12:14 (eight years ago) link

Artists like Dälek, El-P, Aesop Rock, Shape of Broad Minds, Oh No, Busdriver and Cloud Cult are actually pushing the art of hip-hop to new horizons

wait what the actual fuck? Cloud Cult? they are from here we played a benefit show with them they are like store-brand flaming lips!

bringing back that ol' new york rap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMpOhwUTUwc

the penultimate prophets (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 March 2012 22:09 (eight years ago) link

Ha, you called him out for that at the time.

if you feeling frogbs, leap (The Reverend), Thursday, 29 March 2012 22:29 (eight years ago) link

cloud cult are a bunch of hippies from northfield.

you should check out some other cool hip hop acts like the flaming lips.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, January 3, 2008 2:17 PM Bookmark

if you feeling frogbs, leap (The Reverend), Thursday, 29 March 2012 22:31 (eight years ago) link

high point of ILM imo

the late great, Thursday, 29 March 2012 22:57 (eight years ago) link

lol i can't remember all this bullshit i post :)

the penultimate prophets (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 March 2012 23:05 (eight years ago) link

Lol Cloud Cult droppin tha beatz

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 29 March 2012 23:11 (eight years ago) link

nine months pass...

was OP a troll?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:05 (seven years ago) link

totally sincere

keef qua keef (Jordan), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:19 (seven years ago) link

Memories, the corners, etc.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:23 (seven years ago) link

OP sounds like a recipe for a Komar & Melamid least wanted hip-hop song

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:49 (seven years ago) link

Although it kind of makes me want to record a slanged-up version of T.S. Eliot's cantos atonally autotuned over a hindustani raga sample with extended gamelan instrumental

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:51 (seven years ago) link

OP not a troll, he used to run End of Media (film review site)

NINO CARTER, Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:53 (seven years ago) link

(ezra pound's cantos, rather)

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:55 (seven years ago) link

five months pass...

still lol at that fastnbulbous post I quoted upthread

lady steendriver (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 July 2013 00:58 (seven years ago) link

otm

lady steendriver (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 July 2013 02:44 (seven years ago) link

still lol at that fastnbulbous post I quoted upthread

― lady steendriver (The Reverend), Wednesday, July 10, 2013 8:58 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol had no idea that was where that was from. love bulbous's posting in the #metal thread and his metal blogs, but damn, STAY AWAY FROM THE RAP lol

also seems he removed the Cloud Cult ref after H3lges0n clowned him for it in the OG thread (the original post on the net is still up!)

Neanderthal, Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:00 (seven years ago) link

lol I think he meant Clouddead

lady steendriver (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:02 (seven years ago) link

haha that post is incredible.

caek da killa (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:03 (seven years ago) link

course I can't talk too much shit, around the time he posted that I was only listening to Dead Prez, Consequence, Rhymefest, Blackalicious and Kool Keith, lol

Neanderthal, Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:06 (seven years ago) link

thats a more respectable lineup tbf.

caek da killa (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:07 (seven years ago) link

oh yeah I'll still stan for most of those d00ds, but I was also anti Jay-Z until like 2006 #shame.

Neanderthal, Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:09 (seven years ago) link

James may just give up at once. If you are looking for good and actually musically sophisticated hip-hop, then that is not going to happen. And the responses in this thread show why. Hip-hop are doomed to stay shit forever, because the hip-hop audience has got this sick idea that musical sophistication is "white" (=bad).

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, November 17, 2003 8:49 PM

Neanderthal, Thursday, 11 July 2013 03:10 (seven years ago) link

reading this, i had no trouble understanding what dd was trying to say and i was trapped in the same what the hell is happening here torture.

dylannn, Thursday, 11 July 2013 04:33 (seven years ago) link

It was a different era.

Fetchboy, Thursday, 11 July 2013 05:23 (seven years ago) link

I've had the time of my life.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 11 July 2013 05:29 (seven years ago) link

this is now a decade old thread.

rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 18 July 2013 05:34 (seven years ago) link

Is there anything happening in backpacker rap in 2013?

how's life, Thursday, 18 July 2013 08:38 (seven years ago) link

lots of examples of what OP was looking for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIOqbWdOyg

reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 18 July 2013 08:43 (seven years ago) link

Is there even a record label for this shit anymore?

how's life, Thursday, 18 July 2013 15:34 (seven years ago) link

yes, it's called bandcamp

precious bonsai children of new york (Jordan), Thursday, 18 July 2013 15:35 (seven years ago) link

three years pass...

ddrake, my comment towards you was much more addressed at your lame putdowns than anything else. Totally fucking cringeworthy. The error was in not singling out anyone else because a good 85% of this thread reads like a transcript of the time trials for the 2004 Cringelympics.
Sadly, because life is deeply unfair, I have no interest or desire in going back and singling out everyone on the thread who was acting the ass, so you'll have to settle for the following:

ATTENTION ILM PLEASE EAT A GIGANTIC DISEASED DICK OK THX

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, November 17, 2003 12:02 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Neanderthal, Thursday, 8 September 2016 05:37 (four years ago) link

two months pass...
two years pass...

Now when you look up at the stars in the sky
It's really, the dandruff from my nuts, so fuck it
I got the rhymes and my rhymes are dope

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 16 January 2019 04:42 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

5 minutes of talking about hip hop on this board and I feel like killing everyone.

new old board description

Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Friday, 20 November 2020 06:17 (one week ago) link

perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of "the rump" and why it needs to be "backed up".

budo jeru, Friday, 20 November 2020 07:06 (one week ago) link


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