George Harrison: Search & Destroy

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I can no longer remember what questions have been asked before. If this has, apologies.

Anyway: does anyone rate Harrison vs other Beatles? Does his solo work beat Beatle work? What was the particular character / achievement of his sound (I think there is a kind of personal character embedded somewhere in his way of stringing chords together)? Which are the best solo LPs and their high points?

the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

pinefox on jungle: Gareth - to answer your questions: no, I don't listen to it; no, it is not nostalgic for me; no, there is no canon, for by my lights it is a sequence of abominations.

how eloquently you sum up George Harrison

gareth, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I have a theory that the Beatles were cursed. Lennon Shot Macca's wife died Harrison was stabbed a short while back by a psychotic antograph hunter/fan/burgler Ringo Starr Is the pinefox George Harrison?

tom, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Harrison was the third-best songwriter in the Beatles, sort of like Uruguay ranks third in a list of who has the most nuclear devices after the USA and Russia. Proof that McCartney wasn't a control freak is that mewling, turgid pomposity like "While My Guitar Noisily and Repititiously Whines" and "Something"(genius lyric - "I don't kno-o- ow, I-I-I don't know") was allowed on their albums.

To answer the question of 'personal style' though, it was probably the slide guitar that justified his existence, "For You Blue" and "Gimme Some Truth" demonstrate this nicely, particularly the latter. Proof that he had a 'style' - the fact that it was parodied (and done better) by Jesse Ed Davis on Lennon's "No. 9 Dream"

dave q, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Always my favorite Beatle; good signal:noise ratio on the Beatles albums (probably enforced quality control, since John & Paul only let him do 1-2 per album); enjoyable pop songs as a solo artist, except "Got My Mind Set on You", which quickly got run into the ground; I even enjoy the T. Wilburys songs where he sings, like "Handle with Care" (awful title) and "End of the Line". Regretting that I passed up Wonderwall on CD a few years ago; always wanted to hear that one...

Search (roughly in order): "Here Comes the Sun", "My Sweet Lord" (shameless 'He's so Fine' steal, but still a great song), "If I Needed Someone", "Love You To", "Within You Without You", "Something", "Blue Jay Way" (pssssychedelic man!!!), "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", "All Those Years Ago", "I Want to Tell You", "For You Blue"

Destroy: "Think for Yourself", "Savoy Truffle" I could live without, "Long Long Long" doesn't ring a bell...

Joe, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I pretty much agree with Joe Lakeside. No, the pinefox != Harrison: I wish I could play with him. Q is an amusing entertainer as ever, but is rather unfair on 'Something' - wasn't it Sinatra who said that was the best song he'd heard in decades?

Harrison overdid the slide, I think - he made it his own, but it occluded his other styles (cf. early Beatles guitar solos). That wasn't quite what I had in mind re. personal sound.

ALL THINGS MUST PASS: key record? One or two rich and strange things on there: 'I Dig Love' (multiple drummers?) and especially the extraordinary (and never-mentioned) 'Awaiting On You All'.

the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah well, Sinatra covered songs by Rod McKuen.

dave q, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I'm sure Harrison is a complete shit and everything, but:

Search:
'Long, Long, Long' (it doesn't ring a bell, it rings a glass)
'Here Comes The Sun' (those opening bars still cheer me up everytime I hear them)
'Old Brown Shoe' (why do I love that 'I want a short haired girl who sometimes wears it twice as long' line so much?)
'Something' (though Frank Sinatra went a bit over the top in his praise)
'I Want To Tell You'
'Think for Yourself'
'While My Guitar Gently Weeps'
'Within You Without You'
'The Inner Light'
'Blue Jay Way'
'Love You To'
'I Me Mine'
Lots of 'All Things Must Pass', (esp 'Isn't It A Pity', 'My Sweet Lord', 'I'd Have You Anytime', 'Wah Wah', 'Awaiting On You All' and the title track)

Destroy:
'Piggies'
'Taxman' (sorry, I know it's a great riff, but I can't listen to it without thinking 'you greedy bastard')
'Only A Northern Song'
'It's All Too Much'
the third disc of 'All Things Must Pass'
Probably everything he released after that.

Nick, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I agree with a lot of that last selection - including the Destroys, actually, esp. 'Taxman' - but might want to defend some later work. Though it might not be easy to do.

I still think 'Something' is fabulous, though Q is right about the occasional lyrical lapse; version on the Anthology is astounding.

the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Didn't we just do beards and the death of rock?

He's the coolest Beatle in Yellow Submarine, what with the standing on mountain peaks and the perpetually wind-swept hair.

fritz, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

It's All Too Much is the most psychadelic all over the place thing the Beatles ever did and is probably worth it just for that. He was a God, but since I don't really know anything after All Things Must Pass (and admittedly, sides 5 and 6 are crap) I don't feel qualified to comment further.

Bill, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

As I seem to say on every Beatles-related thread, 'It's All Too Much' is pretty much the only Fab Four track I can stand to listen to these days (perhaps because it's one of the few tracks that I haven't heard a million times before. But also because it's a funky freak out...)

Andrew L, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Search: "The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter". Destroy: "All Things Must Pass".

Search: The Green Party. Destroy: The Natural Law Party.

OK, I know my two "search" objects have nothing to do with Harrison (he *did* bankroll the NLP, didn't he?). But details, details ...

Seriously: search "Long Long Long" (his best song ever IMO), "Only A Northern Song" (I'm sorry, Nick: even *I* love that one!) and "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" even though, as MacDonald sagely notes, its song structure is pure proto-AOR. But destroy a lot of the rest, and destroy his ethos above all: it's the Sham 69 of hippiedom, the ugly meme that discredits all the good stuff.

Robin Carmody, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

"what is life" is my favorite george solo song. great 70s pop-rock.

gg, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

"I don’t know, I don’t know" isn’t a bad lyric. At least it doesn’t sound labored over or stilted like most of George's Beatles lyrics. What's bad is, "I don’t want to leave her now. You know I believe and how." And, "...attracts me like no other lover" might be okay if intended to be from the p.o.v. of an superuptight prig or a virgin. Maybe George was being The Shy Beatle. But I think it's a good song, as pop songs go, in spite of the lyrics.

Curt, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

On the back of George's Beatles trading card, "Favorite music: Hillbilly". That must have been before he discovered India. George was like the gawky pingerpicking sideman for a country singer until the Eastern vogue gave him a motif and an outlet for his awkward self-expression. I liked his short, country-flavored solos on a lot of the early to mid Beatles songs. Search: "I Don't Want to Spoil the Party".

Curt, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Personally, I think All Things Must Pass is better than any of the Beatles albums. I'm not really bashing the Beatles, but I think the Harrison album has a certain majesty & mysticism that the multi- songwriter, genre-hopping Beatles records would never have been able to hold together. It's one man letting rip with a mountain of material that had been stockpiled during his days as, basically, a second tier band member. But it's not an I've Got My Own Album to Make sort of trifle. I think it's the sound of FREEDOM. He sounds like a man who's only going to be able to make this ONE album so he gives himself a wide open space to say something very personal and bold.

I find it life-affirming. Forgetting about the third disc (everyone else does... and rightly so because it sucks eggs), those first two are an ocean of melody.

He would never do anything as good after that album and he never really seemed to care to top it. His ego just kind of disappeared after that (excepting that dopey, calculated hit single in the 80's when his mood probably changed for a time). He seemed happy to be a quiet, religious man knocking out innoucous pop rock records.

There's some good stuff there, though. Tracks like "Blow Away" and "Sue You Sue Me Blues". And his Lennon tribute (after asassination), "All Those Years Ago" is beautiful, I think. The lyrics are kinda cornball, but the melody has a lovely, shy sort of quality, I think.

As for the Beatles work, I find "Something" overrated easy listening pop, but "Blue Jay Way" is fucked up in a really nice, gurgly way. And I agree with the pro-"Long Long Long" camp. It might be my favorite Beatles track. It's very candlelit and ghostly.

I like George Harrison. A lot.

Oliver K., Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Oh, and one strange fact.

When the "My Sweet Lord" case was finally settled, somehow George Harrison not only got to keep the rights to his song, but was ALSO awarded the rights to "He's So Fine". He now owns the song that he was accused of ripping off.

I've no idea how that happened, but it's true.

Oliver K., Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

My all time favorite Harrison song is the rough version of "All Things Must Pass" found on the Anthology 3 disc. Lovely. Incidentally I also love "Isn't It A Pity", but have only heard the song through Galaxie 500's version.

JC, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

the natural law party is fabulous, making a ring around washington dc and meditating all our problems away sounds promising. ralph nader is no fun.

keith, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Watching my favorite Bollywood TV show this morning, I was reminded of Harrison's "The Inner Light" (they were playing a video of a song which sounded very much like it). I'm surprised it's only been mentioned here once. It's a beautiful song with lovely if enigmatic words (inspired by Basho, I think), though perhaps a little too pretty. Perhaps it's my favorite Harrison song because he only sings on it; the rest is an anonymous Indian band It really has little to do with The Beatles as a group--in fact, there are a whole slew of Beatles songs that have little to do with them as a group, starting with "Yesterday." Well, I waited years for a stereo version of "The Inner Light," and I'm glad they finally got around to releasing one. And I think George ought to be given at least a little credit for collaborating with The Rutles.

X. Y. Zedd, Sunday, 2 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

"Sister Golden Hair" was crap tho

dave q, Sunday, 2 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Did he really write 'Spoil The Party'? That one's ace.

I quite like what Oliver K has to say about ATMP, though I can't seriously rate it over the Beatles. But it has some remarkable moments, like I (we) keep saying.

Yes, those 'Something' lyrics are bad. But I think we all agree that pop != just lyrics (though lyrics may, sometimes, be important) - so for me the song is still a great.

Harrison as guitarist before he went weepy / wah-wah: Classic? (The latter style becomes too all-encompassing.)

What about the LP (eponymous?) with the song 'Faster' on it? I loved that song as a kid.

RC: I agree, NLP: terrible dud. But I wouldn't want to write off 60s- 70s Harrison's achievements just cos of that involvement (92?). Where do the Greens come in - was he funding them too, at some stage?

Relevant connection: Handmade Films. Classic element?

the pinefox, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

I couldn't defend George Harrison for being 'best solo Beatle' <- which I do believe. I'm not that eloquently versed to beat a koala's pants off. But I enjoyed Wonderwall and All Things Must Pass out of his work. Anyone into self loathing and male angst would *love* All Things Must Pass. It's haunting and immense, layer upon layer of weepy guitar. Cannot... describe... As the years went by the albums got worse (soooo preachy!) until his self titled album in 1979. It was all folksy goodness. Blow Away and Soft Hearted Hana are some good tunes. 80's 'got my mind'- bleech. Then The Wilburys were his last stand and now he has faded into musical obscurity. Well, until he is stabbed or cancerous once more.

Abbei, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Pinefox: I was saying to search 'I Don't Want To Spoil the Party' for George's guitar break. It's a Lennon song, I'm sure, with a McCartney bridge to cut the self pity.

Curt, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Reynard,

I don't *think* Harrison has ever had anything to do with the Green Party. I kind of specified that it wasn't related to the subject of this thread and therefore, arguably, against the rules.

Robin Carmody, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Anyone heard this? Apparently consists of two longish moog pieces.

http://www.8trackheaven.com/Images/georgeharrisonelectronicsound.jpg

Paula G., Monday, 24 February 2003 20:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

oops it was supposed to be a pretty 8-track with childlike drawings called "Electronic Sounds". (Oddly, my trying to post the image here has made it turn into a red x on the original site as well.)

Paula G., Monday, 24 February 2003 20:44 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

George is my favorite Beatle.

Classic tune no one's mentioned: Cheer Down.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 24 February 2003 20:47 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah you like him cause of his nickname, the coy beatle. Whatever. Anyone else able to shed me some light?

Paula G., Monday, 24 February 2003 20:50 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

search: "what is life"
destroy: the ONJ cover

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 24 February 2003 22:04 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"I have a theory that the Beatles were cursed. Lennon Shot Macca's wife died Harrison was stabbed a short while back by a psychotic antograph hunter/fan/"
...what, are you nuts? They're the world's most famous rock group, they're rich in perpetuity, their solo careers have flourished despite the fact that they're all completely hit-and-miss and might not even have broken above the tide if they weren't ex-Beatles, they did the best drugs and really lived the life, they were involved in the quest for world peace, even their relationships and children are world famous unto legendary... I can't call that cursed. What I CAN say is if you live long enough, something bad's gonna happen to you. Statistically!

matt riedl (veal), Monday, 24 February 2003 22:56 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
SEARCH: APPLE SCRUFFS

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 23 June 2005 12:58 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Search: "Apple Scruffs," "If Not For You" (better than Dylan's), "What is Life," "My Sweet Lord," "You," "Blow Away," Cloud Nine, the first Wilburys album.

Destroy: every album b/w Dark Horse and Cloud Nine.

Never mentioned: his production work on Ringo's ace "It Don't Come Easy" and co-writing the fantastic "Photograph"; also, his solo on Belinda Carlisle's "Leave A Light On."

Verdict: With some all-too-obvous exceptions, the man needs collaboraters.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 23 June 2005 13:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Hey Paula G's pic works now...

Oh, and as for G.Harrison's lyrics...

(From Love you to)
"I'll make luv to you..
If you want me toooo"

Dawn: Knock yourself out, why don't you...

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 23 June 2005 13:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

What exactly is wrong with any of these lyrics? Too simple or something?

F that!

George wrote "Something" when he was only 25 years old! It and "Here Comes the Sun": 2 of the greatest Beatles tunes ever, period.

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 23 June 2005 20:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The album "All Things Must Pass" is CLASSIC and ESSENTIAL, even if it isn't perfect. I also rather enjoy the way it's produced, the atmosphere of tracks like "Wah-Wah" & "Awaiting On You All". I've heard this rumour that it sounds even better on vinyl, though I've never had it on vinyl.

The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Thursday, 23 June 2005 20:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

A fave Harrisong of mine that doesn't get enough love:

Give Me Love

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Thursday, 23 June 2005 20:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Give Me Love has (as usual for George) a lovely melody, let down (as usual) by a terrible vocal.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 23 June 2005 21:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

There are a ton of songs on 33 1/3 through Gone Troppo as good as "Give Me Love" IMO.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 23 June 2005 21:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Time for me and Tim to wrestle over George again.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 23 June 2005 22:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Time for me and Tim to wrastle over George again.

(but, yeah, I like "This Song" a lot too.)

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 23 June 2005 22:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"What Is Life" is the pinnacle of George for me. I might even go so far as to say it's the best post Beatles song of all their solo work.

darin (darin), Thursday, 23 June 2005 22:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, "What Is Life" is incredible. I can listen to that one over and over again, and not get sick of it. Fantastic riff, and love the slide guitar on the last verse.

"If Not for You" is another great one off that album. His voice was perfectly suited to sing those lyrics.

Joe (Joe), Friday, 24 June 2005 00:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The next song 'Behind That Locked Door', doesn't break the spell.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:21 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that's awesome. And "Run of the Mill" at the end of that side is a really beautiful song.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:34 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I was just going to say, it really is. I feel like I'm listening to this album properly for the first time in my life. The whole thing feels so precious right now.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:39 (twelve years ago) Permalink

'Art Of Dying' is pretty lame though.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:53 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Oh I love that one. It's got a great sense of urgency about it.

My fave track off ATMP though is I Live for You, another great melody.

I've been reading a few George interviews recently. I really like the turn of phrase he had and his gently cynical perspective.

Bob Six (bobbysix), Monday, 10 July 2006 20:54 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"blow Away" from 1979 is heavenly. and I think that all the songs on All Things that have huge echo are hampered by same. "Apple Scruffs" is the sound of joy itself.

and no one else on Earth has that sweet sound he got on the slide roundabout 1969.

veronica moser (veronica moser), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:11 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I don’t believe the Jam nor the Smiths had an equivalent effect on popular culture that the Beatles did. Nor were the fan bases of either band a fraction of that of the Beatles.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, October 15, 2017 8:26 PM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

We're not talking about, measuring or comparing a bands effect on popular culture. We're talking about people being asked a question in an interview and the effect of this on their songwriting.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:18 (eight months ago) Permalink

xxpost:

At least on Dark Horse he had Clapton making off with wife and falling off the wagon to think about - even if the former only got onto the LP in the form of new lyrics on 'Bye Bye Love' ... He should have waited until his throat had healed, though. I'd have far more time for that record if I could put up with the singing.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:24 (eight months ago) Permalink

Originally I think we were talking more generally about the reasons why the ex-Beatles would choose to write on Beatle-related themes and addressing your criticism of that.

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:26 (eight months ago) Permalink

Yes, that too!

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:29 (eight months ago) Permalink

We're not talking about, measuring or comparing a bands effect on popular culture. We're talking about people being asked a question in an interview and the effect of this on their songwriting.


We weren’t talking about that until you brought up the Jam and the Smiths. The frequency and rabidness with which Weller and Morrissey were asked about reuniting is likely significantly less than that of any member of the Beatles.

The Beatles were thought, by a sizable number of their fans, to have The Answer, if not An Answer to the seismic cultural shifts of the ‘60s. Weller and Morrissey may well have been similarly regarded by fans of theirs in their times, but questions put to them in interviews, and by fans/fanatics, did not have the same weight of “you changed our generation!” behind them.

Again, this is not a matter of a single interviewer asking a single question in a single interview. The Beatles had (have) to endure a gauntlet of hectoring for decades, on a scale no other performers have had to endure. More likely than not, as artists tend to reflect the lives they’ve led through their work, this will come out in their music, consciously and otherwise.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:46 (eight months ago) Permalink

there have been other musicians before and since the beatles who had the same kind of enormous social impact, but i don't know of any of them who made that impact as part of a collective entity. it doesn't make a lot of sense to ask michael jackson if michael jackson is ever going to get back together, and as tremendously famous as the beatles were individually, they were and always will be dwarfed by "The Beatles". it's not the sort of thing one can "move on" from, any more than someone can "move on" from being the american president.

bob lefse (rushomancy), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:53 (eight months ago) Permalink

Imagine if Bob Dylan had broken up.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Sunday, 15 October 2017 22:46 (eight months ago) Permalink

Yeah he might have had someone going through his trash or something...

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:19 (eight months ago) Permalink

There's that great passage in Chronicles where he talks about once seeing a magazine cover that featured some multi-headed monster with, I think, his head and Kennedy's and, I don't know, Castro or something. That's what he had to deal with.

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:20 (eight months ago) Permalink

Ha wow!

timellison, Monday, 16 October 2017 00:15 (eight months ago) Permalink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_We_Not_Men%3F_We_Are_Devo!#Artwork

"The manager of the company's art department, Rick Serini, recommended an artist who could airbrush and alter the face of the picture, while lead singer Mark Mothersbaugh offered a picture he'd procured from a local newspaper that morphed the faces of U.S. presidents John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. These ideas were later morphed with the original "Chi Chi" Rodriguez image to create the cover art of the album.[9]"

bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 16 October 2017 00:20 (eight months ago) Permalink

We weren’t talking about that until you brought up the Jam and the Smiths. The frequency and rabidness with which Weller and Morrissey were asked about reuniting is likely significantly less than that of any member of the Beatles.

The frequency and rabidness doesn't matter - what matters is they still get asked, which was a response to Tim's post about Lennon getting asked 10 years after The Beatles broke up.

The Beatles were thought, by a sizable number of their fans, to have The Answer, if not An Answer to the seismic cultural shifts of the ‘60s.

This is all irrelevant unless The Beatles believed this themselves.

Weller and Morrissey may well have been similarly regarded by fans of theirs in their times, but questions put to them in interviews, and by fans/fanatics, did not have the same weight of “you changed our generation!” behind them.

With Weller and Morrissey it was more "you speak for our generation" rather than "you changed our generation" - this distinction is notable. The Sex Pistols changed their generation. This is all irrelevant though.

Again, this is not a matter of a single interviewer asking a single question in a single interview. The Beatles had (have) to endure a gauntlet of hectoring for decades, on a scale no other performers have had to endure. More likely than not, as artists tend to reflect the lives they’ve led through their work, this will come out in their music, consciously and otherwise.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:46 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Again, it's irrelevant - they didn't need to write about it - and again, McCartney didn't for a very long time even though he may have spoken about The Beatles often in interviews - until he finally gave in. Music and interviews are different things, and I don't believe any Beatles reference in their solo careers is anything other than conscious.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 01:29 (eight months ago) Permalink

I think it's more that they all had colossal egos and believed their own hype and myth, in some ways contributing to their own myth by self-mythologising.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 01:32 (eight months ago) Permalink

Dark Horse is underrated. It's patchy, but it's also got some real gems

Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 16 October 2017 01:43 (eight months ago) Permalink

I see no need to make that criticism in general about them. Sometimes, they seem humble to me, actually. Always totally willing to grant some kind of Joseph Campbell-type relevance to the Beatles "myth" rather than just criticize it as hype.

timellison, Monday, 16 October 2017 01:44 (eight months ago) Permalink

"Also" totally willing, etc.

timellison, Monday, 16 October 2017 01:44 (eight months ago) Permalink

I think it's more that they all had colossal egos and believed their own hype and myth, in some ways contributing to their own myth by self-mythologising.

― more Allegro-like (Turrican)

look they _made_ their own myth. what, you think they sold records just by writing good songs? if the beatles had been humble we would never have heard of them.

bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 16 October 2017 03:41 (eight months ago) Permalink

I've got a big ol soft spot for Dark Horse, bad singing and all. Pretty easily my second fave album of his. I will say my vinyl version on my shit speakers sounds way better than the remastered one on Spotify

Shame this didn't make ATMP. Top 5 George track for me:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N2rFr0DyQcg

constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 16 October 2017 03:46 (eight months ago) Permalink

since "the nurse"i've been convinced she's an artist i ought to get into it but neglected to do so. what a mistake, she's the best

Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 16 October 2017 04:03 (eight months ago) Permalink

look they _made_ their own myth. what, you think they sold records just by writing good songs? if the beatles had been humble we would never have heard of them.

― bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, October 16, 2017 3:41 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No they didn't! Others made the myth for them any they bought into it and eventually began fuelling it.

They initially sold records by yes, writing good songs, but also looking the part (they were well packaged), being there at the right time and being helped along by the hype of their management team and others.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 06:48 (eight months ago) Permalink

yeah, the Beatles contributed to their own mythology, being that they were in the Beatles and didn't just stop making music altogether. i don't really understand Turrican's point here, they should have written good songs but not referenced that thing they did for 1/3rd of their lives, seems like a dumb demand to make

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 October 2017 11:16 (eight months ago) Permalink

like wow they consciously wrote about their own lives, oh no, what bastards

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 October 2017 11:17 (eight months ago) Permalink

I'm not saying they shouldn't have done, I'm saying they did it to an embarrassing degree. There is a difference there.

Although The Beatles never played a gig where they decided to knock live goldfish into the audience out of champagne glasses, so I suppose there is that.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 11:23 (eight months ago) Permalink

of course they did -- what else inspired George's "Fish on the Sand"?!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 October 2017 11:29 (eight months ago) Permalink

I'm not saying they shouldn't have done, I'm saying they did it to an embarrassing degree. There is a difference there.

― more Allegro-like (Turrican)

so the standard here is, what, turrican is embarrassed by the degree to which they wrote about their own lives?

bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 16 October 2017 12:17 (eight months ago) Permalink

If they were merely writing about their own lives, that would be fine... if they had still been in The Beatles. The tone of the solo Beatles when they get all self-referential isn't "this is what I did today", it's the sound of people believing their own hype.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 13:18 (eight months ago) Permalink

Then again, when they tried to write about being young when they were past the Beatles' stage, it wasn't all convincing.

e.g. "Back seat of my car", I love the song, but .. really?

Mark G, Monday, 16 October 2017 13:42 (eight months ago) Permalink

As far as the audience was concerned, they were still in the Beatles, in the sense that no one would let them forget it, and no one would let them rest without begging them to reunite, with the veiled subtext of "save us!"

To the extent that the Beatles themselves bought into it, they went back and forth. George lamented that the only peace they got on tour was when they went to the can; but when Vox came up with the Super Beatle amps for that tour, his response was, "'Super Beatle'?! What's more super than being a Beatle?"

In the Anthology he said, "They gave their screams, but we gave our nervous systems"; but while viewing footage of screaming throngs, he turned to the director and said, "If U2 thinks they're a big and popular band, then they should sit through this shit and they can see how popular a real band can be."

The fact that they wrote about the Beatles in their solo work as much as they did was, in part, a way of processing what the fuck they'd all been through. Paul's comparatively scant Beatle-referencing output could likely be put down to the fact that he angrily and dickishly initiated the breakup (publicly, at least) -- to put out songs in 1970-75 along the lines of "gee, I miss the fellas, and boy, we were great!" would be a dick move.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 16 October 2017 14:17 (eight months ago) Permalink

As far as the audience was concerned, they were still in the Beatles, in the sense that no one would let them forget it, and no one would let them rest without begging them to reunite, with the veiled subtext of "save us!"

That's the audience's problem rather than the band's problem. Unless you're saying that they were in some way pandering to their audience, in which case I agree.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 15:17 (eight months ago) Permalink

While of course also giving themselves self-congratulatory pats on the back in song at the same time.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 15:18 (eight months ago) Permalink

U2 have probably played bigger gigs and given more value for money at their gigs than The Beatles ever did post-Hamburg. Just that audiences have learned to stfu because, let's face it, those screaming crowds look idiotic now.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 15:19 (eight months ago) Permalink

They looked idiotic then too tbf

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 October 2017 15:47 (eight months ago) Permalink

Those songs on ATMP don't seem like self-congratulatory pats on the back to me. What are we talking about, "Early 1970?" "I'm the Greatest?" The "How Do You Sleep"/"Some People Never Know" back and forth?

timellison, Monday, 16 October 2017 16:55 (eight months ago) Permalink

That's because they're not. The self-congratulatory pats on the back came later, particularly when McCartney got in on the act. Before that it was merely just self-referential myth-making.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 17:01 (eight months ago) Permalink

This brings me nicely to...

Paul's comparatively scant Beatle-referencing output could likely be put down to the fact that he angrily and dickishly initiated the breakup (publicly, at least) -- to put out songs in 1970-75 along the lines of "gee, I miss the fellas, and boy, we were great!" would be a dick move.

Or it could be that he genuinely wanted to move on and make music on his own terms. Which he did, and the fact that he continued to score hit after hit showed he was onto something.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 17:05 (eight months ago) Permalink

this whole discussion is insane but man....... hating on "back seat of my car" ???? bonkers

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 01:54 (eight months ago) Permalink

He wasn't hating on it - he said he loves the song, but finds the lyric unconvincing.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 06:00 (eight months ago) Permalink

I think we should all be embarrased about how much we love THE BEATLES

niels, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 07:11 (eight months ago) Permalink

Yeah, whoa!

The idea that Paul has to have his relationship w/ girlfriend, while hiding from her dad. That's mmmm probably not where he was at, at that time.

Mark G, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 11:50 (eight months ago) Permalink

'Hi Hi Hi' was probably more where he was at!

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 12:14 (eight months ago) Permalink

Pretty sure Morrissey has written songs about the Smiths and the break-up/aftermath of the Smiths (a bigger solo Moz fan will have to help me out here...)

mahb, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 12:30 (eight months ago) Permalink

Do 'The Smiths', 'Johnny', 'Andy' or 'Mike' appear in the lyrics?

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 13:16 (eight months ago) Permalink

Yeah if I'd been in the Beatles I doubt I would've even noticed really

albvivertine, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:41 (eight months ago) Permalink

Wonder if Pete Best ever thinks about it.

pplains, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:46 (eight months ago) Permalink

four months pass...

Destroy the 1981 comeback..

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 March 2018 03:22 (three months ago) Permalink

Do 'The Smiths', 'Johnny', 'Andy' or 'Mike' appear in the lyrics?

Johnny, Andy, Stephen and Mike
If I like the girl who cares who you like

Whiney On The Moog (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 8 March 2018 04:37 (three months ago) Permalink

1979’s superior eponymous effort (its single “Blow Away” is a beguiling little gem that’s the equal of any McCartney)

love that entire album

reverse-periscoping (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 8 March 2018 08:35 (three months ago) Permalink

Let's rap and tap at Crackerbox Palace

timellison, Friday, 9 March 2018 15:36 (three months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Sounds so much like Jerry Garcia on "Pisces Fish"

timellison, Tuesday, 5 June 2018 20:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink


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